Please bear with me--I am new here and not familiar with all of the abbreviations and lingo--My beautiful wife of 18 years, whom I love hopelessly, has been having a relationship for the past month with a man she met while acting in community theater. I don't know whether or not it has progressed to a sexual infidelity, but there is definitely a romance at some level...lots of cell phone calls, e-mails, little rendezvouzs, etc., and lots of deception and secrecy. She is also in a very vulnerable emotional state right now over her mother's debilitating illness and failing health. The OM is divorced with 2 young boys, several years younger than she is, very handsome and charming. We had our first counseling session this week, with more to come, but my wife thinks we are going in order to help her deal with the depression and upheaval of the situation with her mother. I don't think she intends to reveal the relationship in the counseling, but she may be looking for some kind of validation or justification to continue the relationship, and eventually maybe even to end our marriage. I have expressed my jealousy of OM to her, but I don't think she is aware of how much I know about the relationship. She has not been really affectionate toward me during this time (although she is still warm to me), and says it is because of the depression, but I think the affair (if you can call it that at this point) is the real reason. My questions--1. Should I confront her directly now(which may cause her to recoil and push me completly away) or try to approach it at our next counseling session next week, and endure several more days of this? 2. Should I tell any of her friends or family after I tell her? 3. Am I justified in doing whatever I need to do to gather proof and documentation (I have been sneaky so far, and I am not proud of it). Thanks for any advice!

Your in the perfect position to help your wife into full disclosure.

Already in councelling...let your councellor do the work...mention it to him/her,before your next session.

He/she will be trained in this area....well at least I hope so <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ....if he or she hasn't already picked it up.


Max

edited coz...I should not post with a baby on my lap!

<small>[ July 14, 2004, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: madmax ]</small>

You can start in Plan A, which is the best way to save your marriage, whatever is going on. Read all about it on the link in my signature line.

Also you need to make it clear to the counselor that this friendship is causing problems in your marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AJ4:
<strong>1. Should I confront her directly now(which may cause her to recoil and push me completly away) or try to approach it at our next counseling session next week, and endure several more days of this?

2. Should I tell any of her friends or family after I tell her?

3. Am I justified in doing whatever I need to do to gather proof and documentation (I have been sneaky so far, and I am not proud of it).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First, what have you expressed to the counselor? Does he/she know of your suspicions? What was the premise for commencing counseling in the first place?

Second, have you identified YOUR contributions to the poor state of the marriage that made the environment ripe for an affair?

Now the answers to your questions:

1. Should I confront her directly now(which may cause her to recoil and push me completly away) or try to approach it at our next counseling session next week, and endure several more days of this?

This depends on what your counselor knows and/or believes. Confrontation from either you or the counselor is imperitive. If the confrontation comes from the counselor, she will asssume you put her up to these "lies." Expect lies and denials beyond belief. No matter which direction it comes from, you will be public enemy #1 and she will justify to herself that her (current) decisions to break from you are justified. If she's really deep in the fog, she may not deny in favor of open, blatant justification.

2. Should I tell any of her friends or family after I tell her?

Exposure is also imperitive, if the confrontation does not produce an awakening. Start with family first. read the link in my sig line below and all the embedded links concerning exposure.

3. Am I justified in doing whatever I need to do to gather proof and documentation (I have been sneaky so far, and I am not proud of it).

Absolutely. You are at war. Think of this snooping not as sneaky eavesdropping, but as necessary affair research.

Hopefully you have caught this before it is too far along. Take a good look at this site, the whole site. Find the sections on emotional needs and read them. Find the sections on infidelity and read them. In addition, get the book His Needs Her Needs and read it. If you know or can figure out her top emotional needs or maybe the ones you may be failing at then get to work on them. This is a great book even if there is no infidelity, wish I had read it years ago.

If it is to far along, there is still hope. get the book Surviving An Affair and read it. I just got my copy today and will be reading it to try and save my marriage. Begin Plan A now.

Sounds like an emotional affair may have taken root. In any case, good luck and our prayers are with you. I have only been coming here about a week and have learned a lot. Welcome to Marriage Builders.

If the confrontation comes from the counselor, she will asssume you put her up to these "lies."

I don't necessarily agree nor disagree with this statement. WS's behaviour at the time of confrontation do have some typical themes... they certainly are not unique...but never textbook ..it can be any which way.


One can expect anything as WAT says from denial to justification and I will add to complete disclosure.

Anyone of those is possible plus more.

Counsellors don't like secrets...especially where a marriage is concerned...oddly enough it places too much stress on them.


Max

<small>[ July 15, 2004, 02:11 AM: Message edited by: madmax ]</small>

A bit of clarification about our counseling--a counselor friend of my wife's suggested that we seek counseling together (from a different counselor, of course) after my wife spoke to her about the issues surrounding her mother's illness--she also had told this friend about some needs that she was missing from me (which I acknowledge and pledge to correct)--that's why the friend referred us. My wife has not brought up OM to either counselor--we have only had one session, and I did not have the opportunity to mention OM then. My intention for the next session is to request a few minutes alone with the counselor and make this known, and have it brought up in the professional environment (unless it rears its ugly head before then).

worthatry,
I'm sorry but I kind of have a problem with this statement/question you posed to AJ:

"Second, have you identified YOUR contributions to the poor state of the marriage that made the environment ripe for an affair?"

You know, I was in the same marriage my H was when he made the choice to cheat on me.
I didn't do anything to deserve it number one and often times, it has EVERYTHING to do with the cheater and almost nothing to do with the marriage itself or the spouse.

I know from our MC sessions and my WH OWN confessions that I never did anything to cause this. He had issues and demons that I was not fully aware of as he chose to keep them private and then act them out through his A. Your statement makes it sound as if affairs only happen in bad marriages. I take issue with that statement.
Sorry...JMO

IW,

You said...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You know, I was in the same marriage my H was when he made the choice to cheat on me.
I didn't do anything to deserve it number one and often times, it has EVERYTHING to do with the cheater and almost nothing to do with the marriage itself or the spouse. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would have posted a comment to the same effect. Here at MB, Dr Harley and the faithful believe that both spouses have issues and behavior that caused the marriage to be in a state that made an A a possibility.

You are correct however when you say that the choice to have an A was totally w/in your H's control. That is a choice he made. Regardless of how good or bad a M is there are always other options.

I don't know your situation. It's possible that you are the 1 in a 1,000 spouse who has an unblemished record and did nothing to contribute to a the preA conditions of the marriage.

Please be aware that I have seen BS posting here who in the beginning say," my spouse said that it had nothing to do with me it was all about him/her." This is usually a partial truth. Yes it's about the WS and their poor selfish decision.

Later after self interspection they realize that there were issues that made it easier for their spouse to rationalize. There were resentments that built up. There were issues that were ignored.

Couples who recover are those that not only get thru the affair but they also resolve any preA issues.

Mac

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by IWonder:
<strong> worthatry,
I'm sorry but I kind of have a problem with this statement/question you posed to AJ:

"Second, have you identified YOUR contributions to the poor state of the marriage that made the environment ripe for an affair?"</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand your reaction.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by IWonder:
<strong> worthatry,
I'm sorry but I kind of have a problem with this statement/question you posed to AJ:

"Second, have you identified YOUR contributions to the poor state of the marriage that made the environment ripe for an affair?"

You know, I was in the same marriage my H was when he made the choice to cheat on me.
I didn't do anything to deserve it number one and often times, it has EVERYTHING to do with the cheater and almost nothing to do with the marriage itself or the spouse.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IWonder, it is not always the case, but it is often the case that affairs happen as a result of unmet needs in the marriage. It is almost ALWAYS related to the state of the marriage. If you have read about the Marriage Builders program, part of it's success is built on the recoginition of this fact.

Bad marriages can produce vulnerability. Now, that is no excuse - there IS NO excuse for an affair - but it is a simply a statement of fact.

And while it may not be true in every case, in the cases where it is true, it's vitally important to examine the state of the marriage, and everyone's contribution, in order to affair proof the marriage so there isn't a reocurrance.