Suffer, but not in the open, cry, but do it quietly, hurt, but keep your mouth shut we dare not LB. Go through the 7th level of Hell all alone and keep your mouth shut about it. Work hard, and get hit for it. Meet her EN and forget that you have any at all.

I don't even know this woman anymore. Who is she? 10 minutes before dday she could show emotion, talk to me, share things with me. 10 minutes after dday she shut down like a Pittsburgh steel mill. My needs are screaming inside of me to be met and she's gone, not physically, but gone. You know in school I won most original... "class clown", everyone wanted to be around me, in college I won "best all around" > the party didn't even start till I was there. Even as an adult I have had so many people say... I bet your house is a fun place to be, or I wish my husband was like you. Other people love to be around me, she used to like being around me. It's not that I think I'm all that, but you know, i love to have fun. I haven't been happy for almost 6 months. My joy is gone! My life is gone!

I said to her tonight that she could take all that away, and she said, I don't think I could, I was the one that messed it all up to begin with. I said later, "if you knew the secret to make all this better would you do it?" She said, "yes, but that could never happen." She's studck in the pit of doubt and confusion. She said to me that even after all I've done to not LB and all that > she says she's "still waiting on the other shoe to drop." NO TRUST IN ME? DID I CHEAT? DID I LIE? NO NO NO NO NO!!! But, I'm the one that can't be trusted. Good God! I told her I forgive her, now let's move on. I don't think she wants to move on. I am in hell!!!! This emotional, conversational shut down is worse than the infidelity itself.

RWS, when she says she's waiting for the other shoe to drop do you think she means she's waiting for you to completely lose it with her.

Does she understand you are following a set of principles set out on this site?

I've said before on here sometimes my H and I really did need to clear the air. And sometimes it wasn't very pretty.

I've said before to you I'll talk to her privately. Does she read here at all?

I really need to tell you this too. When you first came here I used to avoid your posts because they were very angry (and I'd read some very angry posts from BS's) and you often said "WW's should just get over it" in a very threatening way. It frightened the life out of me and nearly sent me from the board.

Have you read any of my posts and how well my H and I doing? We are very happy and I want you to be too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jenny

RWS,

I am sorry but I have to 2nd what Jenny just wrote! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I can hear the "anger" just in your typing. Your W must hear and "see" it even more clearer in person.

With my H the shoes.........BOTH........did drop! they had to drop! If they didn't, I wouldn't have been able to dump the anger.

Sometimes, you have to really just say it all.( NOT threaten or Yell) but SAY it~! My H indured it at least 6 times in the first 3 months of recovery. I felt horrible every time I "vented" but I HAD TO. If I didn't, I would have been stuck in the anger for too long. Not good for either one of us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

My very last time "bringing it up!~" was about 2 months ago!!!! H has so much pride and trust in me now.......I do not have to make any comments anymore. No daily little "puns" or incinuations. Even thought we try to not LB, when we are in PAIN they DO FEEL AND HEAR IT~even when we don't really "say it"!!!

Today..............I am "free" of the angry old me. My H is "free" of the fear of the "other shoe dropping!" for the other shoe and the first has been kicked around enough and thrown in the trash now!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Blessings,
Atruheart

Atruheart, that is so right. If my H hadn't just "said it" sometimes we would not be where we are now.

I know LBing is very frowned on but you ARE allowed to say how you feel. It's so important and I think your wife is waiting for you to tell her.

This new RWS must be confusing the heck out of her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Look, RWS, we laughed, we cried, we almost split up, we didn't.

You're doing a brilliant job of filling up her love bank - it's really nice to see. The best thing my H did for me recently was just say to me he had every faith that I could do my new job and do it well. Love bank = overflowing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jenny

Let the other shoe drop then, but very gently.

Don't LB, but don't put on an act either. Its dishonest.

I just got done doing the same thing with mine on the phone, pretending etc.

I think we need to be honest with them/let them see that we aren't perfect. Its hard to be the bad guy.

It sounds like she is feeling sorry for herself. Maybe let her try a little. I think she needs to feel like she has earned your forgiveness, won your love.

She doesn't get that you forgave her. Mine doesn't get it either.

They just don't get it.

Trust God to do some of the work on her.

And tell your feelings/needs to Him, don't hold them in.

He understands. (He ought to. He was the one started this plan A stuff up on the cross).

It works.

Now I will go off and take my own advice.

Hi RWS,

Let me begin by saying…I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE FEELING.

While I've read and digested what kiwi,Trueheat, and Shul have said, I remember that we were invited here when we needed to vent. I understand the rational only too well…better to vent here than in an explosive and volatile environment with our WS. I truly believe that without the "release valve" here at MB, some VERY big LB would have been released

Vent away! We're (BS) swallowing sh&t by the bucket load. Far better here in a controlled environment than trapped face to face with "them". While I'll agree that "discussion" re. the relationship is absolutely mandatory, I also believe that this discussion must be done in a rational and caring manner with all emotions fully under control. This is NOT possible while the pain of the betrayal is still so fresh.

Are our (BS's) words filled with anger? YOU BET! Along with pain, anguish, confusion…you name the emotion, you'll find them all. Are our words filled with venom and spite? YES AGAIN! Would having these words spoken with these strong emotions "help" our situation(s) if allowed to spill forth freely to out WS's? I think not…and I believe Dr. H would agree.

VENT my friend…FAR BETTER TO DO IT HERE. When the pain and anguish subsides (and hopefully they will, for all BS), then air your feelings…in a rational and controlled manner. No LB's…No LB's…No LB's. It's almost a mantra for those of us working a Plan "A"

Vent away scissors, Vent away!

<small>[ July 15, 2004, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: Ron53 ]</small>

RWS: Why do you think your W is afraid to confide in you anymore? Why has she "shut down like the Pittsburgh steel mills"? Think about this for a minute.

. . . . . . . . . . . .

Now that you've had a few seconds to digest this, let me prod you along. It's because she doesn't feel safe talking to you yet. Now you've told us recently that you have changed and I don't doubt that you have. This is a very traumatic experience to go through, how can you not change? Everybody does. But for her, how her emotions are twisting and turning, she hasn't been able to see this change yet. Or if she has, she doesn't believe it (maybe because of your past history). You didn't get in this situation over night, so it won't be solved over night.

It sucks to go through this. You know that. Now one other thing, plan A does not mean: "suffer in silence, or keep your mouth shut." It means not communicating in an inappropriate manner. Communicating in a respectful manner with your partner (and no you don't have to respect what she did). It means no disrespectful judgements (let that up to God). It means providing a safe place for her to work through this. You're not the only one going through this. She probably feels guilty as he!! and doesn't know what to do or how to get out of that trap and right now because of your history she doesn't trust you.

Give it time, but keep working. Talk her, she may not talk back, but I bet she's listening. Just let your actions show that you love her and that will help her. You may not see it, but it will.

Let me say one other thing. When you vent here, that is a good thing, because you are not venting on your wife.

Ron53: I could be wrong here, but I think RWS's W has ended the affair, so your comment about twisting the knife in his back is wrong. She is not eagerly twisting the knife. RWS may feel that way, but if the A has ended, it just means that the recovery hasn't really started yet.

Good luck,
RH

I can promise you FWWs who responded that I don't have horns or a pointy tail and don't answer to the name Beelzebub. I am dealing with a ton of anger and frustration and my W is dealing with fear and confusion. Sometimes I get the feeling that the WWs don't fully understand where some of the BSs are coming from. I think they think they know, but many I don't think do. Some of the arguments go like this > I've shot my BS in the head with a .45 and then they turn to the BS who now has a hole in his head and fuss at him for the pain he's feeling and his anger that his trusted W would shoot him in the head.

Recovering H hit the nail on the head, it didn't happen overnight and it won't get fixed overnight. You have me pegged in your whole response. I asked my W to read your response and she agreed, you read our mail. Thanks

Out!

As far as the LB goes... you're right. It gets to the point where my needs are screaming out and I look to her for help.... and there isn't any. I overestimate, because of the good days we're now experiencing, our progress. I think I'm asking for something from her that she just can't give right now and I'm taking it personally and letting it hurt me badly. It may not look like it to my wife sometimes, but I really am changing. My priorities are completely different now, not just in word, but in deed. I think about her all the time. I love her with everything I have in me and I want her to return to me emotionally and conversationally. I just need to give it time.

oops! triple post!

<small>[ July 15, 2004, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: nuttyprofessor ]</small>

RWS, I don't know if I should even post a reply because I am so new here but as a WS I saw some things in your post to which I wanted to respond. You said she shut down like the Pittsburgh steel mills after D-day. If you were LBin before d-day (and I think you said you were), how much more so did you do it after d-day? You think she only shut down after d-day - is that true? Or was she somewhat closed off before and you just did not notice? Recovering H made several good points in his post - and it was good to see you acknowledge that. This did not happen overnight - and it won't be fixed overnight - for either of you. Your wife is probably having the hardest time right now - not only dealing with her own feelings of guilt, remorse and anguish, but also dealing with the pain and hurt she has caused you, the guilt over wrecking the family, feeling worthless because of what she did - and then she is trying to please you by giving you what you want and need. My advice - as a WS - would be to give her some space - try not to LB - tell her how you feel (she probably does want to hear it) - but don't get frustrated if she can't or won't respond. SHe wants to know how you feel but hearing it is still hard b/c she hurt you and you are giving voice to that hurt and that is not easy to hear. I'll be watching for your posts to see how things work out.

oops! sorry!

<small>[ July 15, 2004, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: nuttyprofessor ]</small>

again, oops! sorry!

<small>[ July 15, 2004, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: nuttyprofessor ]</small>

Sorry for triple post - weird, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

RWS, I can totally understand you. I feel like I've been the one trying to restore our R for a year. My WH has made a few small steps, but I'm still the one hanging around, waiting for him to decide if he loves me enough to want to stay with me, or if he loves her too much so that he CAN'T stay with me.

Today I'm having a very bad day. I do have good days too. But the bad far outweigh the good. I know my WH feels like this too. He only feels good when he can talk with OW, be with OW. Thinks of her all the time. He's angry that he can't talk to her anymore (who knows, he may be talking to her right now).

We do get all the sh** and everyone says we have to buck up and keep Plan Aing. Well, I'm darn sick of it! I don't know if I can take one more day of his distance, love for another woman, waffling feelings for me.

Each time he ends contact, he seems good for a few days, then goes back into his funk. We're about 2 weeks since NC (I think) and he's VERY distant right now. He says I'm acting differently .... maybe I am ... I'm gol' darn good and mad at him! I continue to think, "How could he do this to me?" I've been a good, faithful wife, good mother. Yes, we lost track of each other for a few years ... but let's work hard on getting that old "us" back. He doesn't seem to want to. It seems to me that he is here because he can't face the consequences of leaving me and our children. Can't face the consequences with our families, our friends and his work.

Sorry to thread-jack. Just needed to vent and it came pouring out. I could type quite a bit more, but will stop wallowing now and try to contain my anger. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I can totally agree with where you are coming from. I do feel like I’m having to suffer, cry, get angry, hurt by myself not to mention keep my mouth shut, especially if the OW does something to cause additional problems.

That is one of the questions I've had since day one, why are we, as BS suppose to take the "high road". No, I don't think the WS can know exactly where we as BS are coming from. How could they? Yes, they are feeling their own kind of pain but it IS different, not saying that their pain is any less but it IS different. That just can’t be disputed, IMHO.

I struggle day to day with triggers upon triggers and I feel like I fight that battle by myself. I have been lucky, my H has been very patient especially when I am having a “bad day”, today and last night has been a very bad day. But to not upset my H, I try and put on my “happy face”. I know he doesn’t want to hear about his indiscretions every day, and man do I try not to let him see that this is an every day, to every hour struggle for me. But damit if I have something I need to talk about he best listen. And most of the time I don’t want a response I just need to talk. A simple hug and I do love you works wonders for me. Then there are other times when that simple hug and I love you isn’t enough. I do get mad and angry, but I keep my mouth shut as to try and not upset him or throw this in his face all the time.

My H has treated me better since d-day, he treated me so badly while he was having the affair. And the closer I got the worse he treated me. When all was out in the open, I asked him why. He said it was the lesser of two evils and he was trying not to hurt me….go figure! But his actions towards me while the affair was happening and the words he spoke to me were almost worse than the infidelity. Those words are replayed over and over in my head.

I know what you’re feeling and I wish someone could take all of our pain away. If only! People say time heals all wounds, but damit something keeps opening mine back up and pouring salt in it!

I hope tomorrow is a better day for you!

Hugs to you!
LJB

It's not contact I'm bothered about anymore. I think that is taken care of. I believe wife has done an outstanding job there. I know she loves me and is committed to me, but I think many of the posts have hit it on the head... LB before dday and she's afraid to open up plus the added pressure of her guilt and remorse for what's happened. She said to me today, how can I help fix it when I broke it. I'm going to tell her tonight that she had a lot of help breaking it... me! I'm not saying what I did before justified the A. Nothing would justify that.

I guess I understand the FWW automatically coming to my FWW defense. I do sort of resent the automatic gulity stamped on my forehead when I vent in here. I literally have NO ONE AT ALL to turn to talk to. This board is the only solace I have to talk to real people. I pray daily, and God has been so good to me through this, but I just am in such great need of someone to talk to > thank God for MB.

RWS, I'm so sorry you took my post as running to the FWW defence. All I was trying to do was give a little insight into what MAY be going through your w's mind.

You've come such a long way and as I said in my first post on this thread, I just want you and your w to be happy.

Of course you should vent here as much as you like - that's where this board truly is a blessing. AS Stunned Dad once said this is not the sort of stuff men discuss round the water cooler and it's wonderful that everyone has a chance to have their say in such a supportive atmosphere.

I promise, it will get better. H and I were laughing so hard in bed the other morning (just over something really silly - not SF related) that son called out to keep the noise down.

Jenny

<small>[ July 15, 2004, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

RWS -

I have read your posts and don't see where you have any blame for the A. You are now going through the typical BS feelings.

You will get through this and be back to that fun-loving guy. It just takes time.

Listen, I take a lot of blame for the A. I was the LB king. I take responsibility for a ton of sin. But, then I began to act on it and work on it. That's the way it makes sense to me. I see the problem, repented, started making changes to fix the problem. Most men are fixers, they see a problem and they try to do what they can to make it right. But, even though I understand why the W is going through all of these things, it still makes me crazy to know that she knows what's wrong, yet won't make much movement to fix it. I'm not bashing her. She is making some effort and I can see and I've told her that.

Which brings me to one of the most frustrating things about this whole situation. I bet I'm not the only BS whose been driven nuts by this. For her the M was going through trouble for a long time. It was deteriorating away in her and her feelings. She became who she is over time and then the A happened in response to her feelings and lack of EN being met and so on.... Well, for me, this is the way it happened. Everything was going fine. I noticed some differences, but she never said anything to me about any changes. I assumed that if something was really wrong she would tell me. Then out of the blue one day I find out about the A. One day everything fine > next day all he!! broke loose and M is in trouble. She lost it over a long period of time, I lost it over one day. For her the recovery will take a long time to restore her. For me, I want it to be fixed in one day. That's how I lost it. I feel like I was given a pop quiz between 4 and 5 AM some day in May and no one told me. The quiz came and it was over and I didn't know about it, and I failed. That's how I feel. How can you be graded a failing grade on a quiz you didn't even know about?

I don't know, I just want my lovely, kind, precious, awesome wife back. I know she's in there somewhere. I can see glimpses of her in there from time to time.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

RWS,

Hi. Long time no talk. I could have posted this myself. A lot of what you said witnessed to me. And it is HARD standing IDLY BY. Drives me CRAZY.

Here is how I am handling it. And I tried a bunch of other stuff and all it seemed to do was love bust.

I am patiently trying to let her come out of it. As long as I see a baby step here and there, I am OK with it. Drives me INSANE because of who I am, but I have learned that JUDGEMENTS are bad. I cannot judge my WWs progress, becaue I am not her. Vent your head off. It helps.

Big question. Would she come here and post? Spouses are kind of funny. They don't tend to hear any wisdom from their spouses. I will read a post from another WW like Broken Vessel or OnlyWords and it will make sense. For some strange reason, it is harder to "hear" it from RAP. She is saying the same darn thing. But I am emotionally attached to RAP, and it seems to make me read too much in to what she is saying.

Works the same the other way, too. She listens to people here more than me EVEN WHEN I SAY THE SAME THING. I think the pain and pressure is a little too much for a spouse to witness to or hear from a spouse during all this.

I would try HARD to get her to come hear and post and read so she doesn't feel alone. She needs to know she is not unique. That others no different from her have beaten this. She is just not going to hear that message from you. Knee-jerk reaction will be that you have a string attached. Wrong, but there. Question is, are YOU going to USE the knowledge or just not accept it.

I would say "Honey, I am not going to ask you for much, but I would really appreciate it if you could take some time and visit this board. There are other women going through the same thing and I think it would help you understand."

Or do like Eric N. did and print her one of the threads. So she can see.

As a last resort, I would hold the chocolate in the house hostage until she does. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

NCWalker