If anyone remembers me, I posted a flurry of messages in April and May related to an overfriendly coworker. There was something going on between us which I think would be defined an EA.

I eventually shut her out/off with no explanation and things were looking pretty good between my wife and me.

After three weeks of shutting out my coworker, she quit.

Unfortunately, I became friendly with her again right before she left. This consisted of me telling her that I ended our friendship cuz I thought it was a threat to my marriage. Anyway, we never exchanged phone numbers, e-mail or anything. I have no way to contact her... and that was intentional.

She's been gone 3½ weeks now. I'd be lying to say I don't miss the "friendship" or whatever it was. I also worry what would happen if I bump into her sometime.

Meanwhile, my wife and I are making enormous strides in our relationship. We are growing closer and developing plans and learning more about each other all the time.

I know I will be vulnerable to these types of tempations in the future if my wife and I don't work things out and I don't work out my own issues.

I just wanted to post here for posterity's sake since most of my story is on here already.

Thanks,

john_g

Have you let your wife know about this person?

If not, whats stopping you from doing that?


A wonderful little mind trick to help yourself in situations(running into her) such as this is to...behave as if your wife is standing beside you...at all times..then go home and tell the MRS.

Take care

Max.

Yeah, my wifey knows all about her.

She doesn't know how much of a problem it still is for me... thinking about OW. But the thinking about part is starting to fade, albeit gradually.

Johng..

glad to here from you..

the issue is NOT the OP...
the real issue is whether or not YOUR wife is MEETING your needs..

in my opinion you had some pretty legitimate incidences of her just not cherishing you or letting you do anything...

has SHE seen the light...
and are you two really adressing those things....

ARK.....
ps obviously her neglect of meeting your needs is not excuse or free pass to get attached to anyone ...but you and I already KNEW that part...
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

ark..
so the real question is how is she
how are you

jg:

It is so good 2 hear from you.

What you're going through is so normal it's... ...well, it's normal!

You're experiencing withdrawl from the OW. You did the right thing by not leaving an avenue for further communication open. Now what you need is time for withdrawl and time 2 work with your W by focusing on your marriage.

Marriage requires maintenance. It's WORK. But everything of real value does, doesn't it?

best,
-ol' 2long

John,

I remember all about your story and it’s good hearing from you again. Thanks for the update! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I agree with 2long. What you’re going through right now is very normal and just needs time, patience and focus on you W and marriage. Don’t give meaning to the residual feelings or try to analyze or think about it too much…like I’ve said, it’s normal and will pass with time.

As someone has already suggested, if you ever bump in OW, just behave the way you would if your W was standing next to you and if there is any accidental contact, inform your W about it.

Here is an extraction from an article about emotional infidelity at work and how to protect yourself against future temptations:

HOW TO KEEP TEMPTATION AT ARM'S LENGTH

There is no such thing as an affair-proof marriage. But couples who want to protect their unions from infidelity can be mindful of the dangers. To keep a marriage healthy:

* Stay honest with your partner. ''Honesty is the trump card for preventing affairs,'' says Peggy Vaughan, who has studied affairs for more than two decades. Her Web site is dearpeggy.com. ''Make a commitment to sharing your attractions and temptations.'' That helps to avoid acting on them. Dishonesty and deception cause affairs to flourish, Vaughan says.

* Monitor your marriage. ''Realize if there is something missing,'' says psychologist Kimberly Young of St. Bonaventure University in southwest New York state. ''Be willing to try to fix it.'' Assess whether needs are being met.

* Stay alert for temptations. ''Be very careful of getting involved in the first place,'' Young says. ''Know the dangers. You can be drawn to an affair as to a drug. And once you are past a certain point of emotional connection, it is very hard to go into reverse.''

* Don't flirt. ''That is how affairs start,'' says Bonnie Eaker Weil, whose Web site, www.makeupdontbreakup .com, features tips for preventing infidelity. ''Flirting is not part of an innocent friendship. If you think there might be a problem with someone you flirt with, there probably is a problem.''

* Recognize that work can be a danger zone. ''Don't lunch or take private coffee breaks with the same person all the time,'' psychologist Shirley Glass says.

* Beware of the lure of the Internet. ''Emotional affairs develop quickly, in maybe a few days or weeks online, where it might take a year at the office,'' Young says. ''There is safety behind the computer screen.''

* Keep old flames from reigniting. ''If you value your marriage, think twice about having lunch with one,'' Glass says. Invite your partner along.

* Value the intimacy of your marriage. ''Reveal as much of yourself to one another as possible,'' Atlanta psychiatrist Frank Pittman says. ''You will find it less necessary to form an intimate friendship with someone else.''

* Make sure your social network supports marriage. ''Surround yourself with happily married friends who don't believe in fooling around,'' Glass says.

Good luck and blessings, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Suzet

<small>[ July 16, 2004, 04:25 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Hi. Dunno if anyone who helped me before is still around, but I'll post for posterity's sake.

I haven't posted here in three-and-a-half months.

Month-and-a-half ago, I left the school where all that temptation took place. I never did see OW again nor hear from her. (And I never tried to contact her, didn't share contact info, etc.)

I am home in the evenings with my wife again. There is some good in it, but now a lot of financial struggles as well.

For a season W seemed to want to "get revenge" on me but that has seems to have passed.

Not teaching at the school has taken a lot out of my sense of self-worth. It doesn't help that my day job is dreary and uninteresting. It doesn't help that I've lived in Phoenix, AZ for five years with not a single friend to show for it.

My wife seems so unclear of what she wants to be. After five years of marriage, we still have no children. Something's wrong. And I feel like my wife and I are roommate more than anything else.

I'm so use to being successful and purposeful I feel very unclear of where things are going.

I am glad things with the OW never went beyond an EA... I am glad to be here, rather than have continued or developed something with someone else... but I want things to be better than they are at present.

Venting,

John G

Hi jg:

Well, I'm still here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Have you considered marriage coaching? It's not cheap, but it's efficient. Best if your W will participate with you. Also, would she be interested posting here herself? maybe not 2 an infidelity board, but perhaps something like the Emotional Needs board?

best,
-ol' 2long

John G,

Thanks for the update. As you can see, I’m still here also. Not because of major problems in my M, but to try and give back to this board what I’ve learned. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

A while ago I was wondering about you. I’m sorry to hear things are not so positive in your life and M right now, but I’m very glad to hear there is still NC between you and the OW.

Although I’m aware that a man’s success and feeling of importance in his occupation & finances plays a big role in his sense of self-worth, I think the current state in your M plays a much bigger role in these negative feelings you currently experience and I’m sure you W also feels the same feelings of emptiness and unhappiness in this M. I agree with 2long, Marriage counseling for you and your W is the best solution and it will help if your W can also post to these boards.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>For a season my W seemed to want to "get revenge" on me but that has seems to have passed.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This seems very problematic and “revenge” is never a solution to the problem…it only makes things worse. What happened? Are you sure this has passed and have you and your W worked through the ‘issues’ of your EA/”friendship” with the co-worker? I have an idea that your W possibly still feels much anger and resentment towards you and this causes a ‘block’ in your M and prevent both of you from filling each other’s most important Emotional Needs. Your W’s tendency to take “revenge” can also cause you to resent her and block honest and open communication. This is serious stuff and both of you needs to work through these issues.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>My wife seems so unclear of what she wants to be. After five years of marriage, we still have no children. Something's wrong. And I feel like my wife and I are roommate more than anything else.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is there a fertility problem, is your W not willing to have children or is the reason for not having children because of sexual problems in your M? I assume the latter is part of the problem because you feel like roommates. Before you and your W have children, it’s SO important to sort out the problems in your M first. But I suspect this unresolved “child issue” between you and your W is part of the emotional problems between the two of you.

Talk to your W and let her see how important it is for both of you to receive marriage counseling and work through these issues.

Keep posting and let us know what's going on. Don't disappear again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Good luck and blessings,
Suzet

<small>[ November 10, 2004, 02:41 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Hello, 2long, Suzette. Good to hear from you again.

Marriage coaching would be great, but financially things are strained. I quit my teaching job in the evenings to be able to spend more time with my wife and avoid temptation there.

That shouldn't have been a problem, but I lost a series of arguments about how big of a house to buy, what kind of features should go into the house, etc. My wife assured me she would work "a couple hours" overtime at her job to cover the higher payment. Of course, that didn't happen and I should've known better. Even tho the teaching was just for my resume the extra money spoiled us and made us undisciplined spenders.

Money isn't an object to my wife, but it should be. And even now, when I calculated that if we stuck to our budget, we would have $23 left over a month (no money for saving)... she still pressures me statements like "we need to take a vacation", "we need a new car", etc.

My wife won't get her own drinks or make her own food. I've been doing 80% of the housework since I quit my second job. And it's still not enough. This expensive house, only a year old, is always dirtier than it should be. If she gets a makeup stain on the carpet she just says "it'll come out", but then she won't do it. I have to do it. And after awhile I just get ambivalent about it all.

In our five years of marriage she has started taking college classes at least five times. Of those times, four she dropped or flunked out of class. The fifth time she managed to complete the class. She insisted we buy $700 medical transcriptioning software because her friend was making money at it. Unfortunately, when it arrived it just sat there in a corner for weeks. I forced her to work on it which she half-heartedly did for a couple hours one night. Other than that, it is just a waste of money.

All the schooling and software went on charge cards including $200 on software to help her pass a CLEP test (she tried using it once). The house we are in is $30,000 more than what I wanted to spend. We could've gotten a nice brand-new house for what I wanted to spend, but she insisted we have a two story.

Career-wise... she keeps hurting herself. When we first got married, she would only work at jobs for four months at a time. She would say everyone is mean to her... then find a new job. She managed to stay at her last job two years (to get a good credit rating for buying the house), but what does she do when she leaves? She gives no notice and burns all her bridges with coworkers and boss. These are people who could've given her great references (which we needed badly when we were applying to become franchisees a couple weeks ago). One of my wife's former coworkers kept calling me saying she couldn't get hold of W. I kept telling her my wife found a new job. This lady was talking like I hurt or killed my wife somehow! It was only after my wife left a voice mail there (a month after she left) that I stopped getting these unfriendly phone calls.

If I get angry, she ignores what I say... if I try to say something nicely, she pays lip services but doesn't change her behavior at all. I can never bring up all the stuff I just mentioned... she'll just say I am "being abusive" for even mentioning it. I say something at a normal volume and she calls it "yelling at her".

The *only* thing that works as far as getting her to see she needs to change is if we have a knockdown dragout (verbal) fight. I have to entrench myself and become incredibly cold.

Looking at myself, critically, I can say that I have problems too. I spend too much time on my computer. I am suppose to be doing some contracting work for some clients I have... but a lot of times I just get filled with despair and surf the Internet instead.

I should've been more resolute on spending... and I myself contributed to our finances as well. Maybe I would charge something telling myself I would pay it off with the next check but never getting around to doing it.

I admit I contribute to the problem (especially the EA), but on the other hand, my wife still acts like she's four-years-old. It's like being married to a little kid. She's been spoiled her whole life, and just so y'all know... it's the spouse that suffers when parents do that to their children.

I love my wife, but I don't know what to do. I feel like I've held up my end of the bargain. I got my bachelors degree since we were married, graduated with honors. My salary is double what it was five years ago. I did all this for us. Why can't she ever see how her choices hurt "us".

I'd be lying if I didn't say "I feel cheated."

Sorry, I meant to respond to your words 2long and Suzette, but I just got typing and this is what came out.

John G

John_g,

Hello!

I don't remember you from before, but I have been in and out of MB for a few years now. I was not on here very much for the last year.

My W shares some characteristics with your W.

I was wondering if you could tell me a bit about her.

What was her childhood like?
Were her parents divorced?
Did she have any traumatic experiences in childhood?
Did she suffer any kind of child abuse?
How old was she when you married?
Was she ever independent?

... and about yourself...

Did you have a lot of girlfriends before you met your W?
What was your childhood like?

Sorry to ask so many Q's. I'm just looking for patterns - to understand myself and my W better.

I just finished reading The Unintended Legacy of Divorce, by Judith Wallerstein. It is about the long-term effects of divorce on children - and on their subsequent relationships as adults. Although my W's parents were not divorced, she had other traumas in childhood which have very strongly affected her.

Your W's attitudes now are certainly related to the way she grew up.

Now as for you (and me). I married late to a much younger W - and had no girlfriends before her. Really, I didn't know what I was dealing with - didn't have the experience or wisdom to know that it was better (for both of us) not to marry (each other).

My W also has been "in college" for 8 years - and the list of dropped courses is very long. She just dropped one yesterday. I hurts her very much to give it up - and I feel sorry for her, but she didn't study - not at all (in that class). She she will not graduate this spring - and is really broken up about that.

We have one child - 4 years old - so that is quite different from your situation. If I might offer a bit of advice - or an observation ... I don't think your W is ready to be a Mom. Being a parent is not for quitters. It's a never-ending responsibility. The child doesn't just stop needing when you stop feeling like giving.

Well, enough from me.

Good to "meet" you.

-AD

... and more...

John_g,

You said that you got your degree since you married. Were you working and going to school at the same time? That would have made it very difficult for you to spend time with your W. Perhaps you just drifted away from each other during that time - and during the time that you were working 2 jobs - so that you have to "court" her again now - to get close to her again.

Just a thought...

-AD

jg, AD:

It's interesting reading your experiences. I would say that in some ways, my own "problems" over the years are related 2 the same kinds of things.

Basically, my W needs therapy and I needed coaching. Go 2 Penny Tupy's (cerri on MB) website at www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com and read her article about the differences between marital therapy and marriage coaching. I think you'll find that coaching would be PERFECT for you 2 help figure out what you need/want 2 do, john, and that your W might find therapy - which digs up the past and tries 2 understand the present based on it - 2 be most useful.

Thinking about what you 2 have said in context with my own sitch, and my W's disgust of my coaching, I can understand better her viewpoint.

Finally, about costs: finding a way for both of you 2 live within your means will take some experienced help. For2nately, there are public service groups out there that can help you get your finances under control. But without the coaching and/or therapy, you may never have the "skills" 2 stay out of fiscal trouble. Yes, good therapy or coaching is expensive, but not that expensive when weighed against keeping this diminishing resources lifestyle up indefinitely.

Finally, I realize there are periods in troubled times where it might seem impossible 2 stop obsessing over your spouse's shortcomings, but think about it: There must be some positive traits about your W that you can give some attention 2? Maybe offer some positive feedback 2 lift both of your spirits just a little bit?

-ol' 2long

22bbllee ppoosstt!!

<small>[ November 10, 2004, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

Hi AD. Glad to make your acquaintenance.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What was her childhood like?
Were her parents divorced?
Did she have any traumatic experiences in childhood?
Did she suffer any kind of child abuse?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Her childhood was very difficult. My wife grew up in a broken home. Her father left when she was five or so. Up until that time, she has very fond memories of him. After he left, things became very bad between her and her father.

Her father used to "steal" my W from her mother and then hide her. He would use all sorts of blockades to ensure her mother couldn't get her back.

Her father married his lover who hated my W and her siblings. My W has told me stories of her step-mother shaving her head, forcing her to do all the work around the house, not feeding her etc.

Even worse, my W's sister was mentally retarded and her father kept her in a cage outside the house. My W family believes her father killed her sister. Her sister died when my W was 8.

I know this sounds almost unreal, but my wife is from a country where the laws are not the same as here and the mentally retarded are not valued at all in the society.

My W eventually was able to return to her mother. But her mother was not around much. For a time, her whole family lived with her grandparents. She has many happy stories about that time.

When her mother remarried, my W lived with her mom and her mom's husband. This step-father was also abusive and racist. (Her mother/step-father were a biracial couple. We are too, btw.)

Eventually my W's oldest sister took charge of her and undoubtedly saved her from a lot of pain and misery. Her oldest sister is at least thirteen years older than my W.

Now, as far as I can tell... when my W's mom WAS around... she spoiled her to death. Her grandmother and oldest sister were the same way. My theory is that she was spoiled by people because they felt sorry for her.

Also, in her country it is not uncommon for people to have maids and gardeners. (People are willing to work for someone in exchange for food.)

I know for a fact that a maid took care of things like cleaning, cooking, etc. This explains why my wife is the way she is about things around the house.

On top of this, I know my wife was molested by at least two people and I believe others. At least one was a female.

In her school, she was extemely popular and had the attention of all sorts of guys.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How old was she when you married?
Was she ever independent?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When we married my wife was 22 and I was 25. She lived on her own for a short while when she was 19. This was to get away from her verbally abusive step-father.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did you have a lot of girlfriends before you met your W?
What was your childhood like?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here's a post that describes my childhood very well. This was during my whiny, why-should-I-cheat-phase.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=028413#000000

AD, our experiences do sound similar and I welcome any more input you might have relating to your situation. I had several girlfriends before my wife, but especially when growing up, I was plagued with issues about my appearance... often the subject of teasing about "being ugly" and so forth.

I think I have neglected my wife at times because of my job and schooling. Although I know I am doing so much of it for her happiness, I am probably not meeting her needs for me to be present and intimate.

2long,

You are right, my wife does have a lot of good in her, and just writing out her childhood story rends my heart to pieces over the suffering she has experienced in her life. I really love her and I don't wanna let her go ever... I just feel myself at a loss.

You are definitely right that there are costs associated with NOT getting help. I'm just straining to figure out how we would pay for it. What really stinks is that I make a decent wage and we could be doing so much better with some discipline. I will definitely check out that article.

Thank you for your words.

Peace,

John G

John_g,

I'm reading....

It will take me a while to digest and respond.

It's amazing what a powerful effect a traumatic childhood has on a person. It's like they are a hollow tree - with nothing supporting them inside.

I'll be back...

-AD

john_g,

I remember you! It's good to see you back here and to see that you're taking steps in the right direction. It is such a tough road, but once you've travelled it you will feel so strong and confident.

Your W and you have a lot to talk about. Someone else suggested a class to learn about financial responsibility; I think that's a good idea - would your W attend something like that with you?

Regarding the way your W holds out for big expensive things, and how you feel like you give in and then regret it later, it sounds like spending is a great place to practice POJA. I think if the two of you can *enthusiastically* agree on some financial issues then you won't feel so bad about it later.

Likewise the housework might be up for POJA - or maybe domestic support is one of your top ENs.

Is your W open to learning about POJA, ENs, etc.? Will she read "Fall in Love, Stay in Love" with you and do the questionnaires?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by john_g:
<strong> Glad to make your acquaintenance.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mutual!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
Her childhood was very difficult.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As was my w's childhood - with war, surviving a massacre, orphanage (under very bad conditions), adoption, highly critical and verbally abusive mom.

BTW. I love my wife and I care very much about her - want her to be happy if it is at all possible. I'll make a few comparisons here, with the understanding that each person is an individual and I consider my W to be more than just the sum of the effects of the bad things in her life.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> My wife grew up in a broken home.
Her father left when she was five or so. Up until that time, she has very fond memories of him. After he left, things became very bad between her and her father. ...
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My W was adopted, and although her parents stayed together and are good couple now, her Dad was a very busy guy and really didn't know her until she was a teen. She says he "was always gone" and "didn't know what grade [she] was in."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
... my wife is from a country where ...
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My W is also an immegrant - twice. First, she was adopted internationally, then she was sent to the US to go to college at the age of 17.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>For a time, her whole family lived with her grandparents. She has many happy stories about that time. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank God for those grandparents!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>(Her mother/step-father were a biracial couple. We are too, btw.)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I guess you could call us bi-racial, since my W is technically "asian" and I'm uh... "white". I don't usually feel that way about it. It doesn't seem to have any effect on us. We don't think of ourselves as "bi-racial". Perhaps that is because her adopted family is "white". Race isn't as much an issue for us as culture and language - which is a big issue - especially language.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
Eventually my W's oldest sister took charge of her and undoubtedly saved her from a lot of pain and misery. Her oldest sister is at least thirteen years older than my W. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank God for another benefactor.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
Now, as far as I can tell... when my W's mom WAS around... she spoiled her to death. Her grandmother and oldest sister were the same way. My theory is that she was spoiled by people because they felt sorry for her. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My take on this is that the "spoiling" is probably much less significant than the emotional abandonment and abuse that she suffered. My w was not "spoiled" in any way, but she exibits many of the same behaviour patterns.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
I know for a fact that a maid took care of things like cleaning, cooking, etc. This explains why my wife is the way she is about things around the house.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That may explain it. My wife, however, is not much interested in keeping house either - but at home she was bossed around and yelled at if she didn't do her chores on time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
On top of this, I know my wife was molested by at least two people and I believe others. At least one was a female. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh man! Thank God my w didn't have any of that (as far as I have been able to tell.)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
In her school, she was extemely popular and had the attention of all sorts of guys. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We're diverging here also. My wife was a super-serious student and didn't have any boyfriends in her school. Her only boyfriend at that time was 4 or 5 years older and was a high school dropout. I don't have anything against him. He treated her with respect - as if he felt that she was better than him. His parents were friends of her parents and he, I suspect, was afraid of her Dad.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>When we married my wife was 22 and I was 25. She lived on her own for a short while when she was 19. This was to get away from her verbally abusive step-father.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So what did she do between 19 and 22?
Did she go to college?

My W was sent abroad to go to college at 17. She lived in dorms and with two families who helped her out. She didn't see her parents for a couple of years and only talked to them once a month or so, but she was not independent of them emotionally (still isn't) and was never self-sufficient financially.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I had several girlfriends before my wife, but especially when growing up, I was plagued with issues about my appearance... often the subject of teasing about "being ugly" and so forth.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I had no girlfriends before my wife. Never tried, really. I always thought I wasn't the sort of guy that girls liked. I ended up marrying quite late - and marrying somebody much younger than myself. I'm not quite sure why I lived like that - just working and spending time with friends (mostly married couple friends). I didn't have much social confidence - but excelled in my work - so I just stuck to that.

Well, that's enough for now!

I think that your W's childhood holds the keys to her current behaviour.

I highly recommend the book that I mentioned in my previous post. Reading it might help you. Your w's life is almost in there - and in that study, the effects of that kind of childhood were often quite debilitating. Your W suffered an emotional abandonment just at a critical time of her childhood. Her dad and Mom weren't there for her. They no longer delighted in her. They didn't have time for her - even abused her. That will tear the heart out of a child.

I missed the point (didn't read your other thread yet). Did your parents stay together?

OK, I already said enough!

-AD

John_g,

... more...

As for the bigger house etc. We are in a similar situation. It's not that my W is a big spender, but rather that she begs and whines and complains until I will do just about anything to try to satisfy her. It's a mistake I make, and I suspect that you do the same.

We currently have two houses and she doesn't like either one. We've lived in our current house 2 years. When we married, I had maybe 1.5 years gross salery in the bank in cash, a paid-for house, paid-for car, no debt. Now we owe almost 4 years' gross salary.

Like your W, nobody can tell my W what to do - or even ask her to do anything. But, she gives me orders left and right. Today, for example, as we went to lunch she was dissatisified with my jacket. She said "It's not like it's cold. You could go from the building to the car without a jacket!" She feels that it is more manly to stoicly endure the cold rather than to show weakness by wearing a jacket. She ordered me to removed it. I finally complied. Her whining and demands are more unpleasant than the cold - so I gave in. It's a usual pattern with us. Later, she was appologetic.

Does your W boss you around?

-AD

Hi Turtlehead! I remember you too!

I appreciate your input so much.

The financial accountability class would be good for us. I admit I have to swallow my pride to go to one. I have very concrete ideas on HOW to save, but I just can't get my wife to agree and be enthusiastic about it.

Financial issues beyond "yes, you can buy it" are very frustrating to her. And references to bad purchase decisions in the past get her upset.

So, I think we need a class that address communicating with each other about financial issues as part of its program. Not sure where to start, but I'll have a look.

The His Needs/Her Needs stuff is good too. My only problem is that I bought the books-on-cassette, so it is not much of a reference tool and there are no worksheets. Guess I'll look for a used copy of the book somewhere.

Thanks again,

John G