AD, thanks for the feedback and sharing. It is surprising to find out there is someone who can relate to me. Sometimes, my wife's attitude is so confusing to me that I think I am the only person in the world who knows someone like this.

I really do love my wife, and I don't mean to cast her in a negative light... but some of the issues are driving me crazy.

Heheh. Does my wife boss me around? Ahem...

Well, she doesn't order me around, really. She'll say "I'm cold" which means "get me a blanket." If I am unwilling to do it, she'll whine and beg me to until I do it.

If I don't do what she asks (only in those rare occasions when I absolutely refuse), she'll go without. She's completely unwilling to get it herself.

I use to come home at 11:30 at night from my second job to find that she hadn't eaten. She'll ask me to make her something after I get back from a second job. That was not uncommon at all... but it wasn't daily either. Most of the time she would eat leftovers from her lunch or throw a bunch of leftovers together in very unappealing combinations.

Only within the last month or two can I occasionally ask her to do something for me. Before that, she refused to get me anything in the way of a drink or whatever.

I don't actually *need* the standard fare domestic wife who cooks, cleans, launders, etc. My wife works full-time and I respect that. I just want someone who will share the duties of the house with me.

When my wife isn't willing to clean up a make-up stain on our carpet, it just says to me she doesn't care about our marriage... because WE bought the house together... it's OUR house and I feel she doesn't appreciate my hard work or her own.

I'm going to get that book you mentioned through the library. I have it on hold already....

Thanks for your help,

John G

John_g,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by john_g:
<strong> Sometimes, my wife's attitude is so confusing to me that I think I am the only person in the world who knows someone like this.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know that feeling. Often I say one thing and she hears the opposite - or something completely unconnected (in my mind).

Your description of your w expressing her needs sounds familiar too. My W will say "I told you I wanted that house and you didn't buy it!" She seems surprised. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But she also bosses - and if I resist, she becomes enraged - sometimes violent.

My W also will often go most of the day without eating - and then become angry when I'm slow to produce something to eat after she has said "I'm hungry".

But, she is an excellent cook and goes through some spells of cooking regularly and then spells where she hardly cooks at all. She expects me to guess when she is cooking and when she isn't.

I know better than to ask her for anything. Actually, I've started doing that a little and I think I have to keep doing it even though she rarely does what I ask. I mentioned this morning that I couldn't iron my shirt because the ironing board is covered with clothes and stuff. She said she would clean it off and put those things away sometime today - but she didn't do it. I don't really expect her to do what she says she is going to do.

Your w works - holds down a job - so she must be capable of producing regularly. That's something my W fears she can never do. She's a SAHM now - and a student.

I'm glad I met you. You understand some of the things that I've been dealing with. Of course, in our case, W had an A - so that's different. I said "had", but really it is still hanging over us. OM is hanging around our city waiting for us to divorce - says he'll wait forever and never marry anybody but my W. Stinks!

-AD

I feel for you, AD.

I can tell you from personal experience that an affair is ALL about obsession.

When I was having an EA, the OW dominated every waking moment. I sat at my day job, paralyzed. I was literally unable to work because of the confusion, rage, desire I felt. (This is very obvious in my old messages posted here.)

Yet, today I am rational. My mind is clear. Although, I still struggle with the temptation to fantasize about the OW I know it is completely ridiculous and I would never, ever go back.

I hope your W is at or will get to that point.

This OM you mentioned is a loser in the highest order, a complete fake. It takes someone with incredibly low self-esteem to be willing to hang out waiting for another man's wife.

As for my marriage situation, I dun actually know what path to follow except to take the advice of the good people here.

As much as I find myself frustrated with my wife, I find her eccentric behavior endearing as well. Maybe you understand that too. The problem is when the behavior causes separation in the relationship.

That being said, I caused lots of separation in the relationship, and I haven't done near as much as I can to bring her and me together more. I don't think we're ever "off the hook" as far as spouses until we've given up on every bit of selfishness within us. (That's not to say a person should be a doormat.)

Anyway, that's my $.02.

May God bless your marriage.

John G

I am a wayward Asian wife and my husband is the betrayed white husband. I wonder just how much marital difficulties surround a biracial couple. I also came from a difficult and traumatic childhood. Asians are not known to treat girls very well. My husband's childhood was not all that fine and dandy either.
Sometimes though I feel like I am just a trophy for my husband. He is with me because I am young, have the Asian sex goddess look or something and full of energy. He loves to trophy me around in public but at home I feel ignored. At this point I no longer try to wear makeup or wear nice clothes because I really don't want to attract any problems. I want to be invisible sometimes and don't want anyone else looking at me aside for my husband. He loves to brag to people about me and the kids but in honestly I really don't see him spending that much time with us and he ends up wanting to do things that he wants to do..not what the rest of us want and he we ask him to do it, he mops or says I want to go home, I am tired. But if it is something he wants, well he could go on talking all night.
Yet at home he complains about the house, the kids behavior, why they don;t know this or that, or why this or that wasn't taken care of. When he yells at the kids I take it personally as he is basically saying I am doing a stinky job of raising them.
As for being bossy, I have to tell you that being an Asian daughter, I had my share of being bossed around and having to wait on my dad hand and foot. My dad would scream JUMP and we would answer how High. I was never good enough no matter how many stinking A's I got. Plus I worked in a sweatshop factory as a child for so many years I can't even remember. All I remember about my child was work work work. I don;t remember just hanging out and having fun and especially not with my family.
I swore as a child that I would never be like my mom a slave to her men and I would never be a slave to any man. So with that in mind I fight with the issue of authority. I don;t want to be bossed around and I want to be the boss but of course in relationships that doesn't work and I fall back onto whatever cultural expectations I was lead to believe in. So then I become inconsistent. I feel guilty that I am not being the dutiful wife I have been taught to be and yet I fight being that dutiful wife. Does that make sense? To this day, whenever my dad calls me and hears me calling for my husband has told me not to "demand " my husband to come to the phone. Do not speak to him in a demanding tone...blah blah blah.

John_g,

I'm glad you got yourself out of the obsession.

My W sometimes called her A (when it was only EA) an addiction. She said that she could not wait to hear his voice, thought about him constantly. etc. etc. Unfortunatly, she still does that a lot. It's been going on for our entire marriage - 6 years. I don't know what it will take for her to lose the obsession - perhaps she should spend more time with OM. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> No, I'd rather not let that happen.

I suppose I sounded bitter about my wife and maybe projected too much of similarity between my W and yours.

In any case, you and I both have work to do!

In my case, I have decided that for the sake of my child I will go a long way in misery - if that's what it takes to protect her. You have a decision to make someday maybe. Right now, you have to make up for lost ground - repair the damage of your EA and ... it looks like you are doing the right kind of things. Quitting the 2nd job and being home more etc.

Something you said at the beginning of this thread stuck in my mind.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by John_g<strong>
I'm so use to being successful and purposeful I feel very unclear of where things are going.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you may be a classic "type a" guy. For you, a structured approach to improving your marriage - with some kind of mileposts along the way - might be required. Can you come up with some kind of personal scorecard of your progress. I mean that you should work out some specific things that you will do - and grade yourself every day/week/month as you work to accomplish those personal goals without any expectation that your W will change. If your program actually addresses things that matter to your W, and you stick to it, you should see not only your "scorecard" improve, but also the real measure, the relationship with your W.

Just a thought. Maybe we could work up something together. Let me know what you think.

Good luck to you.
-AD

PS.

Yes, my W's OM is a loser. I'll try to make him wait until I die (a natural death). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> His mom already writes letters to W's mom complaining that my W has ruined his life. I kinda enjoy a chuckle at that.

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

John,

I noticed your W was molested as a child. This thread contains excellent website links and information on sexual child abuse (specifically the effect of childhood abuse on adults). I’ve posted many links on the second page of this thread. The thread was originally created for sexual abuse survivors who are WS’s, but I think anyone who suffered from sexual child abuse can benefit from reading the links. It will give you more insight into your W as well.

Blessings,
Suzet

LM,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I swore as a child that I would never be like my mom a slave to her men and I would never be a slave to any man. So with that in mind I fight with the issue of authority. I don;t want to be bossed around and I want to be the boss but of course in relationships that doesn't work and I fall back onto whatever cultural expectations I was lead to believe in. So then I become inconsistent. I feel guilty that I am not being the dutiful wife I have been taught to be and yet I fight being that dutiful wife. Does that make sense?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think so.

My wife had to deal with several abusive men growing up, and she promised herself she would not be subservient to a man when she grew up.

I appreciate that angle. It helped me in particular, because I admit I had problems with being cold and cruel sometimes with the women I dated before I was married. I had a lot of distrust in me and it channeled into my relationships. I was never ever physically abusive, and I didn't ever yell or scream. But I was very accusatory to the point that I would make women cry. It's not a proud thing to admit, but it was part of who I was.

My wife simply wouldn't put up with it. She is not a cryer. If I ever use to become cruel or cold she just dug in and would not budge. She refused to let me get to her. In that respect, she is perfect for me. She helped mold me into a better person, and I would rather she take advantage of me (which I feel she often does) than the situation be reverse. God put her in my life to force me to be a better communicater and a kinder person. It's a beautiful thing, because she actually does compliment me fairly regularly for being as gentle as I am. I don't know if she knows how much she had to do with it.

For your situation, you are right to not want to be bossed around. Marriage should never be about one person bossing the other person.

Maybe you deal with the same issue my wife does? She's hypersensitive to how I talk to her. She _sees_ some things I do as "ordering her." But the truth is, I am only asking her to do her fair share. (And I don't "command" her, I ask her.) When I worked two jobs (this was 8 a.m. to 11 p.m. five nights a week, plus some Saturdays), she STILL thought I should do half the housework. I tried to explain that we were both doing an equal amount of work, just in different roles.

Then again, my wife didn't have to work hard as a child, whereas it sounds like you did. The women in her life spoiled her, but the men were abusive. How did your mother treat you?

I think if you just "conform" to your "wifely duties" you'll always feel you are being ordered around. Sounds like something you and your H need to work through. I find that a single sentence can have to very different meanings to two different people. I'd like to say communication is the key, but communication is a major problem in my own marriage, so I am no expert at all.

I wish you the best of luck.

Suzet,

I'll definitely read that thread. Think I'll cut and paste it into an e-mail to myself for later reading. Thanks so much for sharing it.

AD - I'm short on time, now, but I'll get back with you later today.


Peace,

John G

Yo AD. How's it going?

I appreciate your dedication to your child, but don't give up hope for happiness with your wife. She is still with you and that is cause for hope. Maybe it seems like she won't change, but people can surprise you.

Do you think she is staying for your child's sake or because she wants things to work between you two?

Even if she is just staying for the child, you are in a better position to win her over to you than any other man will be... you have easier access to her.

That usually backfires... because we are so human and end up hurting those we would wish we could love the most.

I think you are right. I am a type "A" sort of guy. Some sort of system might help.

Honestly, things have improved significantly since I started posting here again a couple days ago.

There's something about discussion with a third-party (platonic discussion), that helps clear the mind and give perspective.

Hang in there AD. I believe a lot of good can come out of your present situation.

I do agree, that it would be excellent if your W could see that this OM has the benefit of always putting his best foot forward, while she is around you 24/7 and gets the good with the bad.

Unfortunately, that would be highly unlikely unless she actually lived with him for awhile.

Again if it is any hope, I DID realize that my image of the OW was just a function of smoke and mirrors... and I had the strength (after many beatings from this group) to pull back and do the right thing.

God bless and keep in touch,

JG

My mother treated me worse than my father. I am considered a princess by my father compared to my mother. She treated me like trash. Borderline neglect. Tried to drown me in the toilet. Didn't take me to the ER when I was sick or near death. I am lucky to be alive today because of my father. He took me to the er against my mothers wishes when I was bitten by a spider. If they had waited another hour, I would have died. She made me suffer a whole night. My mom is still really evil to me and to my daughters. It is sick.
there was an aunt who adored me but she lived very very far away. Maybe my grandma too at the beginning but once my father cheated on my mom and my mom was single, my grandma became really close to my mom.
So in general I was much closer to my dad than my mom. At least he cared and paid attention to me when he wasn't away on business or seeing his mistresses.

LM,

I'm very sorry to hear about the pain in your childhood.

The good thing is that you can recognize and articulate everything that happened to you. From your other posts on this board that I've read, it seems clear to me that you are very conscientious about how you raise your own children. In other words, you've coped very well.

Don't give up hope for change in your marraige. Again, from what I read of some of your posts elsewhere, your husband doesn't seem to realize how unhappy you are or how serious the issues are. I think he needs to know the complete truth. It will be a painful but illuminating moment for him... and the beginning of real progress.

John G

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by john_g:
<strong> Yo AD. How's it going?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We're having a bit of a bad spell just now. Thanks for asking.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Do you think she is staying for your child's sake or because she wants things to work between you two?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Fear is her main restraint. W is afraid of all the consequences of divorce.

Also, although W is quite impulsive and might do anything on an impulse, she doesn't like to take responsibility for anything. If she decides she wants a D, she will try to force me to initiate it - so that she won't have to take responsibility.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
Even if she is just staying for the child, you are in a better position to win her over to you than any other man will be... you have easier access to her.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's true to some extent, but actually the main thing is that as our daughter grows and I bond more tightly with our daughter, it makes it harder for W to take responsibility for breaking up the family.

On the other hand...
OM has some built-in advantages - such as being much younger than me. I can't change that.

Now, on to your case...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
Honestly, things have improved significantly since I started posting here again a couple days ago.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What's happening? Tell us about the improvements!

When I was thinking about a formal program (so that you could make the most your "Type A" style), I was reminded of Ben Franklin's program of self-improvement. He had several areas in which he was working - and a daily/weekly scoresheet etc. I'm sure there are many schemes like that.

It just seems to me that going from first working and going to school, then to working two jobs, now down to just the day job, you might miss the structure of that. The "program" would fill your need for structure so that you don't just come home from work and feel lost - waiting for the next day so you can go back to work. After a few months of that, you might panic and find an excuse to get another night job. So, if instead, you come home thinking that building a good relationship with your W is your night job, it might help you.

BTW. I used to teach nights also (when I was single). I quit after my Dad died. I think that my Dad dying - about 14 years ago - was the trigger that got me moving in the direction of starting a family and away from the work-all-the-time mode of life.

-AD

<small>[ November 12, 2004, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>