I have read a lot on the board in the way of tips to avoid additional pain. Tips on how best to heal. That recovery sometimes means simply the recovery of yourself. Advice on how to make the best decisions in future interpersonal relationships, so that one avoids any unnecessary pain, regret, guilt. I've seen different formulas for waiting to date (e.g 1 year for every 4 years of marriage, or 4 months for every 1 year of marriage, etc). Read the discussions about "waiting for the ink to dry" before even going there, no matter how "done" they now feel in their marriage. Some discussions, usually recapping the MISTAKE, in considering dating when the ink had not even hit the paper yet. Some discussions about the mess they made of their lives when they did not wait to pursue new relationships, ironically found love, and with it, found quite a bit of heartbreak, took upon themselves an unwarranted mess that they really did not need at this point in their lives.

On the flip side, read a post (can't remember who it was) of a BH who fought a good fight, separated, then finally conceded to D, not for the sake of his WW, but because he was ready to end it. He was in the process, met a great girl, and the rest of the stories detailed a happy love story, with, as far as I can tell, a man who now is in a relationship, that came about at an unlikely time, that by all APPEARANCES (though I have to admit I was skeptical when I read it) seem to be good for him. I think his divorce was finally final, and he was still dating her, seemingly happy as heck. I have to wonder if that will last for him.

I have read posts from BSes. Posts where people go from that desperation, that white-knuckled panic, over-engulfing pain, to recovery. That anguish to spare children from pain, salvage years of history, recover financially, and most of all, the attempt to hold on to the people you love, the people you promised to love no matter what. The people who promised to support, for better or worse, and we all pretty much agree this qualifies as the "worse." I have seen these same people transition, from anguish, to anger, to angst, to bitterness, to not so peaceful acceptance, to acceptance, to indifference, and back all over again, the true bumping, scary roller coaster. It leaves us flushed, nauseous, wild eyed, and adrenaline filled.

And then, you see the notes about how they noticed someone new. Maybe it was a funny joke. A flirty glance. A person with some steadfast values you have not seen in awhile. I have seen these comments from the most chaste and honorable of posters. Seen it from others who seem to have a good head on their shoulders. Seen it from people who seem to be total and utter basket cases (and you think to yourself, oh no). But they cannot believe it. They felt the flash of something inside that they thought was dead and buried and gone forever. They feel this flash for someone else, where before they thought their heart had been bought and sold by their spouse, and they could never ever ever ever ever love again. And while this new thing may not be love, you can see how you are shocked you even have "like" left in you. And damnit, it felt good. In conversation, you start realize that there are others out there can still peak your interest, share common passions, maybe even commiserate with your pain (as an OLD adult, I am realizing there are an awful lot of people out there licking their wounds from broken marriages, broken families...amazing how many share your situation).

I can tell you, in true Dipi fashion, I jumped the gun.

I met someone who made me feel good again.

He was hurting. I was hurting. It was perfect (sarcasm here).

Moral of the story?

Use me as a case study if you wish. Don't do this. Even though I am done with my M. Even though this decision was already made. Even though I am filing the papers. Even though I was seemingly at peace with this. Even though I seemed absolved of any responsibility to the M. Even though WH and I had seemingly reached this level of friendship, where he feels he can openly discuss his future relationship plans. Even though WH knew I was taking this step (seemed to reciprocate his sentiments, because I told him, plus, I do not lie, I felt I had nothing to hide, nothing to be ashamed of, after all, he put my in this situation where I would even entertain new romantic relationships, not me). Even though friends and family will tell you how proud they are that you are "getting back on the horse." Even though you think this is a good first step to moving on and facing that big world out there as a newly single person. Even though it just feels like it could be right. Even though all of that....you will be wrong.

And you will lose some respect for yourself in the meantime. And others who are more fundamental, less wishy washy, less apt to flex on their values, less apt to legitimize actions, despite how they feel, that know there is no gray, just black and white, despite all the variables, all that has happened, all of it, they will lose respect for you too.

You will realize in all actuality, no matter how much you will want to deny, justify, explain the differences in your situation, point out the honesty, etc....that you are now no better in your decision making than your WS. It makes me sick to realize, that basically, no two bones about it, I am now a WW. Robby, I too join the ranks of evilness (although that was never a big surprise to me).

I laugh (or is it cry) now, and think how my WH kept telling me "I was done."

I said that too. And maybe I am.

And maybe he was too.

But wrong is wrong. You may be "done," but wait until it is official. And wait until you are REALLY done. Done with the pain. Done with the rebuilding of yourself. Done with the hate and bitterness. Done with the denial. Done with the all consuming focus on this aspect of your life.

Done with having to have someone. Ready to have yourself, and be happy with that.

Then you will really be done.

Just wait. God will not give you a partner in these circumstances. And, I know, there have been some stories of those who rushed, made a mess, and God FIXED the mess, but that was probably not His preference. He is just gracious and often willing to mend our mistakes for us like that, that is how good a God He is.

I need to learn how to be alone. And do it well, and do it longer. Really, when I think of people on the board who were not offered recovery because of their boneheaded WS's, I think of people like WAT and Believer as great role models. You don't hear hatred. Bitterness. Anxiousness. You cannot hear the swift breeze whistling through some giant hole in their hearts. They seem wise. Whole. You hear a soft, calm peace.

I need to find that.

<small>[ November 06, 2004, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: cellophane. ]</small>

dipi,

This is the most moving thing I've read in a while....and though you may not yet be whole...there is no doubt you are wise.

(((((((((((((dipi)))))))))))))))

Ms. DipiT -

My heart goes out to you. Please do not treat yourself this way - there are plenty of others who'll be willing to do it for you. You yourself have said that you are moving on. God's word says that when a man "puts away" his wife, this is the acceptable time for a divorce. (& NO, to anyone wanting to make this a religious discussion, I'm not a willing participant there - this is for Dipi only!!)

I have been married twice, and while waiting for the 1st mistake/marriage to be finalized, I too dated. It's really a devastating point for the STBX to see the reality of their destructive behavior, and as always, what's good for the goose is never good for the gander! They will (mine did) say things to you to make you feel like you are in the wrong...truth is, you are NOT! Marriage takes place when a man and a woman commit to each other they will be together for the rest of life...imo that marriage actually begins at the point of commitment - engagement. (Kind of like a baby begins at conception, but it doesn't truly get celebrated until it's birthday.) And, likewise, imo that marriage is disolved in God's eyes at the point the two decide they'll no longer be one, i.e. that point where your H said he wanted to be with OW, not you, and you finally had to reach the point to say, ok, enough is enough - I'm moving on. IMO (only my opinion) that is the point where God will recognize it too.

PLEASE!!!! Don't beat yourself up - you are not the WS here!!!

hugs and prayers to you!!

DipiT-

Wow…

What an amazing post…

I read it twice in my office - then printed it out, went outside and read it again…

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This is the most moving thing I've read in a while....and though you may not yet be whole...there is no doubt you are wise. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I couldn’t say it any better…

(dipi)

I only have two arms…

I could have written your post. Only my story goes on, if you remember. When I met the new guy (and we were BOTH vulnerable BS's at the time), I was just stobborn enough to hang on... and now we're married.

I have written the "do as I say, not as I did" posts, and been praised and/or blasted. I have made my mistakes and admit readily to them.

Beating yourself up rarely works. I know and have the bruises to prove it. I have come here BEGGING people to listen to me... hear my story... DON'T DO WHAT I DID... and again...

... been praised or blasted...

Yep, wrong is wrong... but remember this, SerendipiT (Oh God, I *love* your name!)...

You are still a worthy woman and a thoughtful one. Yes, you erred... you take responsibility for it... so use those arms to hug yourself instead of beating yourself...

(((((SerendipiT)))))

With understanding from a fellow traveller who understands...

Wow.

All I can say is wow.

I am still amazed that people with very different circumstances can be so frighteningly similar.

You are F, I am M. You are (just a teeny little bit <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) older than I. You have kids, I don't.

But there hasn't been a word that you've expressed over that past couple weeks that I haven't thought, said or felt.

I know where you are coming from.

I know all too well.

I have been very quiet here (if you haven't noticed), just poking my head out occasionally. I have been reading, watching, as I go through similar stages in my life.

Do you remember my curveball story?

I never stopped talking to her. We are just friends. (And I certainly don't mean friends the way my WW does, we're actually just friends.) We went on a 'not a date' to go see the fireworks on, of all things, "Independence Day." And we had a good time. I only talk to her once or twice a week, although once was on the phone for a couple of hours. It's been a slow moving process, and that's good. My friends are VERY supportive.

But I have realized that I am way too hurt to pursue this. That she would get only about 50% of me. And that's not fair to her or to me.

I still have a lot to deal with. I too feel that I have betrayed my M. (and WW, too I suppose.) I almost feel that I have told God that he can't fix my M, even though I believe he can. That has been a huge challenge for me.

Are we different than our WS's? Sure. But I sure feel like I am doing the same thing. (Even though I haven't ventured into a P Relationship, the E one is there......)

I still am 99.77% certain that my M is dead, buried. Destroyed by WW's multiple A's. In spite of that, I still feel like I have let everyone down, myself included.

So, DipiT, I just wanted to let you know that I am here with you. EVERY step of the way.......

And thank you. Thank you for finding a way to voice what has laid inside of me (and others as well.)

Hugs,
Ethan

Ethan:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I still have a lot to deal with. I too feel that I have betrayed my M. (and WW, too I suppose.) I almost feel that I have told God that he can't fix my M, even though I believe he can. That has been a huge challenge for me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know exactly what you are saying. My post on "sermon notes" smacks of this. If you want to move on, are ready to move on, find yourself in a situation where you even find yourself attracted to someone else, are you saying to God that you are going to take matters into your own hands, and you no longer believe in His ability to deliver on a miracle (as it relates to your M), and thus, are waning in your all encompassing belief in Him? Or, could God's real miracle be something other than your marriage, because that was not His perfect plan for you anyway (I now know if I had consulted with God BEFORE I married, I would not have married WH)?

All my MB friends, and maybe those others that want to let loose on me but have not yet, thank you for your honesty, your support, and your time.

<small>[ July 15, 2004, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: SerendipiT ]</small>

I'm trying to limit my time on the boards because i only have computer access at work and haven't got a lot accomplished since i started coming here but especially over the past month. anyway, i saw thefurnitureman posted to this so i read the thread because he's not around very much. i read the entire thread and just wasn't sure what to say or think for you or for me. so i didn't post then i was just shuffling through some stuff on my desk and came across a poem i had printed off that someone sent me and i thought i would post that here. we are all human and i have a lot of fears for myself in the process of allowing God to work a miracle in my marriage but anyway here goes:

When i say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not shouting "I'm clean livin."
I'm whishpering "i was lost,"
Now I'm found and forgiven.

When I say "i am a Christian:
I don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble
and need CHRIST to be my guide.

When i say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that i'm weak
and need HIS strength to carry on.

When i say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting i have failed
and need God to clean my mess.

When i say..."I am a Christian"
i'm not claiming to be perfect,
my flaws are far too visible
but, God believes I am worth it.

When i say..."I am a Christian"
I still feel the sting of pain,
i have my share of heartaches
so i call upon His name.

When i say..."I am a Christian"
i'm not holier than thou,
i'm just a simple sinner
who received God's good grace, somehow.

author ~Maya Angelou~


Just thought it may fit the situation, prayers to you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If you want to move on, are ready to move on, find yourself in a situation where you even find yourself attracted to someone else, are you saying to God that you are going to take matters into your own hands, and you no longer believe in His ability to deliver on a miracle (as it relates to your M), and thus, are waning in your all encompassing belief in Him? Or, could God's real miracle be something other than your marriage, because that was not His perfect plan for you anyway (I now know if I had consulted with God BEFORE I married God, I would not have married WH)?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly what burns inside of me. I feel in many ways that this was the only way that God could have reached me, by bringing me to this point of brokenness. In many ways, perhaps that in and of itself was the miracle. It sure feels that way to me. (The finding God part, not the curveball.) And it has very little to do with WW. I dunno. This is and has been my struggle lately. I have no advice to impart.

Keep praying. It's been working for me.

Ethan

Hi dipi - I'm honored that you think of me as a role model, but there are plenty of others who do a better job than me, I believe. Remember, I've been accused by a former poster of harboring a lot of anger and I'm doomed to eventual unhappiness! (Wow!, the tropics were beautiful last month!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> )

But I am at peace and I credit MB principles and the numerous folks I relied on here for that. Through this process I exited the end of my marriage guilt free and with a totally clear conscience. This has been the key for me moving forward perhaps faster than many.

I started dating within a few months following my divorce and I met whom I now describe as the love of my life one month after my WS and OM got married. We'e approaching two years together with no end in sight! So from this data point, I don't model the timing calculations you mention!

You're gonna make it. Stay the course. This part is far from a one-size-fits-all process.

SerendipiT - I think you are talking about Brett. He wanted to save his marriage, but his wife was determined not to. They live in Idaho, where it only takes 6 weeks to D. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

He posted two days ago, and things are going well with his new friend. But he did say that they are going to take their time. He has not even met her 2 kids yet.

We all urged him to slow down, but he seems to be completely happy now, and is continuing IC, working on himself.