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I've noticed recently in the thread "JL (again) please" where BV and RAP have made comments about the OM getting off easy or he was able to get away with it (the A) or he was able to move on with his life with apparent ease. And I've been thinking about this.
Couple of questions and observations for you, plus one recommendation.
First the questions. You have both been in NC now (for a few weeks or so), so your observations of OM's lack of punishment have been based on visual observation. Nothing more. So I ask you, how has he not been punished? Do you know for a fact that his conscience is not eating at him, that he is not going through any type of withdrawal, that his W absolutely doesn't know?
Next I ask you, does it matter?
Observation from my situation: I thought for the longest time, that OMW was indifferent about what her H (the OM) did. Onlywords said that it "appeared" that he had gotten away with it, that he did not get punished. Lo and behold, I passed him on his tractor the other week. He looks old! I've also noticed this spring that he has done more farm work on his own. (He is know in this area for having his kids and wife do all the work.) My take is that his W is not allowing the kids to help as much. (That's just my guess, but he could be coping by working harder too.)
Now a question for myself (and any others who want to jump in): Should I really be judging the OM and OMW?
I'm a Christian. Hence, I should be leaving that judgement to God. It has taken me awhile to get to this point. The point of indifference instead of hate.
Now here's my recommendation. (And I'm not saying run out and do it today. Stick it in your back pocket, and when you're ready, just do it.) You still need to expose this A to the OM's W. She needs to know. Right now, she's living half a marriage, one that's a lie. She deserves the right to work on her M, and improve it if she desires. She needs to know so she herself can make that decision. It's the Christian thing to do.
BV: In your case, it was a man of the cloth. He should not be permitted to remain in this capacity. I believe if you look through Torn Assunder, you will find some information in there about religious leaders (and other positions of leadership, ie doctor, counselor, etc.) that sometimes use their position to influence those under them into A's. The A should be exposed to his boss, the bishop or whoever is above him.
Next think about why I say that the OMW should know. She more than anyone else can put pressure on the OM to ensure that you remain in NC AND that he NEVER does this to another woman. Now it's not guaranteed that he won't, but the odds decrease if she knows. Also, think if it had been your H, and he didn't confess, you'd still want to know wouldn't you?
RAP/BV: Don't think of this as a 2x4, heck, this is more for any other FWW's out there lurking or BH looking for help while reading this forum. I think what both of you did in confessing to your H's took great courage. I say that knowing that I found out about ow's A by reading her journal. It's not something I'm proud of, but I think it was God's way of ending her A. It might have been the best way I was able to handle it. I thank the Lord that I'm not in jail, because I easily could have been.
Again, I hope this does not come across as harsh or preachy like, because that is not how it is meant. I just saw something in your thread that I thought should be addressed, and yet make it available for all those on here looking for help. If you don't take my recommendation, that is ok too, as it is your life and you have to live it as YOU see fit.
God Bless!
RH
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RH, I really do want to respond. However, Boys have friends over and now I hear so much noise our neighbors may come over. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> And my sweet 5 year old is crying. I need to go help H with this. I will respond. Thank you for taking the time to address this. I think it is worth the time for me to think about. Blessings, Pam
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<small>[ July 27, 2004, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>
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RH,
I need to take time to do a better response to you.
Somehow I know what you have said will take me some looking where I don't really want to go.
Also, many interruptions as it is Saturday and lots of goings on with the kids.
Blessings,
Pam
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I agree with recovering husband. I wish someone had told me. The A was going on behind my back for 6 months before I found out. My step-children knew, and everyone at work knew. When I talked to WH about our marriage, he kept telling me that things would get better. All along he was putting his effort into OW.
I know that RAP and BV don't want to tell the OM's wife. However she deserves to know. She probably senses that something is not right, but has no idea what it is. That is how I was.
She also needs to know because her WH is putting her health in jeopardy. She could be unknowingly exposed to many diseases. She cannot protect herself, because she is assuming that her husband is being faithful.
Also BV's church leader needs to be exposed. He may have fallen into this accidently, but he has not been honest with the Church body, or his wife. He needs to confess and repent. He has a dark secret, and is pretending that everything is okay. If he is truly a believer, I fear for his spirituality.
Okay, I will get off my soapbox, but hope that you ladies will have some compassion for the OM's wife.
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I do agree with you believer.
There is a lot of history here, but I will say I have been discussing this a lot more lately with H and a couple friends I have revealed to.
She does need to know. However, I believe(because of certain events) that she suspects something. I also believe she wants to stay in denial at the moment.
Her best friend (I think?) has shown up to drop in on OM when he was out of town by himself before.
OM even thinks it was to check up on him.
One concern is I believe she will want proof or just totally discount everything because she doesn't want to know (these are assumptions however.)
I do not any longer have proof. I have been trying to figure this out.
I know (just because I feel obligated), there will come a time I will tell her.
I am not "dead set" against it, I just haven't figured it all out yet.
NC could explain so much better than I!
Anyway, I do want her to know. She deserves this.
Pam
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RAP -
I don't want you to feel bad, as you are a good woman. But I wish someone had told me. I know my husband well. We were best friends, and have gone through so much together.
I knew something was wrong, but he kept consoling me, telling me that things would get better. So I just blamed myself, never even thinking that he would have an affair.
When I found out, I was devastated. And I did tell OW's husband. He had just come back from the war in Iraq. My WH and OW said that she told him what was going on. But the truth was, she lied to him too. She told her husband that she had been out dancing with my WH and his daughter.
When I went to talk to him, he had no idea. His wife told my WH that they had an open marriage. Sadly her husband knew nothing about this. The first thing he asked me was did I think it was a PA. I showed him the motel bills. Then he got the point.
I am still in contact with him. We talk to each other almost daily. We have become good friends.
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yoohoo ladies - Please answer.
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<small>[ July 27, 2004, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>
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Originally posted by Recovering H:
" I've noticed recently in the thread "JL (again) please" where BV and RAP have made comments about the OM getting off easy or he was able to get away with it (the A) or he was able to move on with his life with apparent ease."
HaHaHa <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Do you FWW / OW have ANY idea of how really FUNNY this is to me ?????
You may not know ... we are 8 years recovered....
Some of my early recovery obsessive internal thinking was something like this:
"I am miserable for the rest of my life, and OW has gotten off scott-free.... going her merry way in her life with no concern that I am MISERABLE beyond imagination!"
BV, RAP , other FWW / OW .....
Misery is shared.... you don't have a lock on feeling that "the other party" suffers less than you suffer.
Meanwhile, as you spend your "recovery" time lamenting that OM is not as miserable as you are <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ....
right there, in your own home
is YOUR HUSBAND ....
who suffers .... and <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> hurts....
but your concern remains
focused
on OM
Where is your empathy for your husband?
The time to focus on OM is OVER... HE IS MARRIED and has his own family.
do you get it?
HE is another woman's HUSBAND ....
and YOUR HUSBAND
HURTS <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
comfort your husband and forget about the other wife's husband.... he is NOT your man... he is NONE of your business ~and~ he NEVER was!
Recovery is HARD ... and unless your focus changes back to YOUR home, YOUR family, YOUR MAN .... recovery opportunities are going unanswered.... and you may not get another chance!
Get your butts in gear and do the work
"I will do whatever it takes for as long as it takes to recover my marriage and make our family safe and secure once more"
What is there you don't understand about having a happy marriage?
Pep
<small>[ July 17, 2004, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>
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Pepper, You are so right....whenever I found myself obsessing over what OM was or wasn't feeling, I reminded myself that whatever I thought about him, his wife could be thinking about ME (and probably was, though she extended a whole lot of undeserved grace to me) and that sobered me up quite a bit. It certainly goes both ways, and it helps to remember that...always. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Julie
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Dear Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I was reading this post from you and taking it in more than I have ever been able to before... The time to focus on OM is OVER... HE IS MARRIED and has his own family. do you get it? HE is another woman's HUSBAND .... .... and YOUR HUSBAND HURTS comfort your husband and forget about the other wife's husband.... he is NOT your man... he is NONE of your business ~and~ he NEVER was!
Recovery is HARD ... and unless your focus changes back to YOUR home, YOUR family, YOUR MAN .... recovery opportunities are going unanswered.... and you may not get another chance! Get your butts in gear and do the work "I will do whatever it takes for as long as it takes to recover my marriage and make our family safe and secure once more" Pep, Amazing post for me to read. Because I am starting to read it and being willing to act upon it. Yes me.... I am willing. My H did a special and wonderful 'starting point' for me today. It was amazing to be in it, and hard to explain. comfort your husband and forget about the other wife's husband.... he is NOT your man... he is NONE of your business ~and~ he NEVER was! Yes Pep. Truly thanks. Hard hitting to the nail but It is working for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> When you say something like this I go 'wow'. Pep is so right. I respect you for your style in this post. Thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
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Julie.... Confession time.... I like you a lot... if I had to bet money on a full marriage recovery ... YOURS is my current odds favorite. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Pep
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Pep, Gosh, gee....thanks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> That DOES mean a lot to me....to hear you say that....especially knowing that you are an OM's wife ! It is really humbling to hear you say that. I should also add here that whenever I was tempted to blame OM for everything and paint him as a LOSER (which I did, but it was wrong)....I remembered that there was a woman out there who loves him VERY much and she is a really decent lady, which MUST mean he ain't THAT bad...least not any worse than I think I am! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Thank you for the vote of confidence! Love you too, Julie
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Pepperband, Mark Twain said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let your secret sympathies and your compassion be always with the under dog in the fight - this is magnanimity; but bet on the other one - this is business. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bet where you will, RAP and I will recover. I'll cook the crow for you myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> NCWalker
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NCW: What was that you were saying in BV's thread "JL (please) again", yeah the sex part? You know where you were talking about how competitive men are. Just wanted to point out to you this is a NOT a win-lose situation (where I win, you lose). I THINK THAT WE WILL ALL WIN!!!!!!! AND RECOVER OUR MARRIAGES BACK OR BETTER (you and RAP, Mr & Mrs BV and myself & onlywords) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
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RH, Of COURSE it is not an exclusive situation. We can all win. But ole Pepperband drew the LINE IN THE SAND, BROTHER. She says you and OW have the best chance of making it. You forget I am from the deep south. Where the phrase "He needed killin'" is a valid legal defense. We don't take kindly to words like that. I am crossing that finish line. With RAP kicking and screaming the whole way if need be. OUCH. Just got punched again. NCW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
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I calls 'um as I sees 'um , dawg. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
From the first time OnlyWords posted, I sensed a commitment to her marriage .... albeit through the fog-confussion .... but she has "it" and she has "it" in spades!!!!!
And the other ladies should elect HER their leader.
Hell, what do I know.... I've had 2 hours sleep.
Last night my 15-year-old had her "sleep over" party.
And they just NOW went to sleep and it's 9:30 AM .... their parents are going to pick them up at 11 AM.....
~yawn~
My yard is covered with silly string...
Sometimes, I wish I were 15 again.....
Pep
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Pep, thanks for the smile...silly string in the yard. To be young again... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
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RH, It seems I have never really addressed you post. I haven't forgotten. I will come back again to it. I know I have something to say, I just don't know what. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Hope you and onlywords are well today.
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