(Edited because with the previous subject, it'd wind up on page a hundred eleventy seven in no time!)

We're slowly but surely talking "better" about our sitch. I'm formulating my "plan" with Penny, so there's progress in my own head as well.

My W is still holding 2 "temporary NC" so far as I can tell, but she's pretty insistent, still, that she won't do that forever.

I like beer. More accurately, I like GOOD beer, not that supermarket swill advertized on TV. Things like a good amber ale from Ruby Mountan Brewing Co, NV (which I only can get a 2ple times a year anyway).

Anyway, at most these days I probably drink a case a month, if even that, and seldom more than 4 in a day while working on something around the house. But during our convo over the weekend, my W complained about my "drinking." So, later, I offered: "I'll gladly quit drinking beer forever if you'll promise never 2 have contact with RM forever." And she just responded "well, that's not going 2 happen." So, I guess I'll continue 2 enjoy good beer from time 2 time.

I'm going 2 remain wary of possible renewed contact, while at the same time enjoy the progress we are making, including watching her going through withdrawl (though that isn't particularly fun, as those who've witnessed it can attest).

I'd still prefer not 2 go 2 plan B, because I feel so "good about myself" these days that, if I had 2, my PBL would be VERY short and 2 the point, like "So long and thanks for all the fish!!"

-ol' 2long

<small>[ July 19, 2004, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

Stop drinking... why not?

It would be a HUGE love bank deposit for your wife.

Your arguement (if you won't promise to stop your annoying habit, neither will I) just left me feeling sorry for you.

Pep

Pep:

I've thought about doing that "anyway."

Best demonstration would be not 2 drink the beer when she buys it. Sa2rday, she bought it (and usually, she does). Also bought herself some hard ciders (I don't like those, give me heartburn).

Good idea.

oh my! I must agree with Pep here...I am not a fan at all of drinking! Not to say that an occassional wine or a beer wont be bad...4 beers a day sounds like a LOT to me...but that is just me!

OK, so why cant you give up the beer? because she wont give up OM? selfish on both of you! give up the beer 2 long...it WILL be a big Love bank deposit in HER bank! Remember YOU are the one who must be strong! This can be a change and an enormous one at that if she doesn't like the drinking.

More importantly, the point I would like 2 make is that my drinking beer is less of an "annoying habit" of mine and more an excuse for never promising NC...

...just like I'm responsible for her having the affair in the first place (reminded of that over the weekend). If I am, I'm going 2 take responsibilty for ending it, though that could get ugly.

But I still like your suggestion. I just don't have any expectations that it won't be replaced with another excuse for not promising NC.

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong> Pep:

I've thought about doing that "anyway."

Best demonstration would be not 2 drink the beer when she buys it. Sa2rday, she bought it (and usually, she does). Also bought herself some hard ciders (I don't like those, give me heartburn).

Good idea. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Noooooooo

Best demonstration is to be upfront.... and repair some damage.

"Wife, I said something that was stupid. And I would like to apologize for it. I am sorry I disrespected your concern for what my drinking is doing to our relationship.

You said my drinking bothers you.... well, I hear you, and if it bothers you enough to bring it up... I won't drink. Thank you for telling me the truth of how my drinking effects you. Please don't buy any more beers."

Pep

<small>[ July 19, 2004, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Okay:

This is as much for you girls as it is for my W and my M. Syncronize your watches.

Ol' 2long's going 2 give this a try. If/when my W puts more beer in the fridge, I will leave it there. I won't say a word, unless she asks. I'm thinking of answering: "I've decided I want 2 make sure I'm not dependent on beer 2 be "happy."" No mention of my offer this weekend at all. Let her figure it out and decide what she wants 2 do.

m23boys: "Occasional" is all I do. And though 4 in a day might seem like a lot, I sweat it out faster than I pull it in. ...but that was yes2rday, yes2rday's gone.

-ol' 2long

Alright, dammit. It's "okay" that my W said that it bothers her and our D that I drink beer, but it's NOT okay that I point out 2 her that it bothers me, our D, and is destroying our lives that she wants 2 resume contact with RM?

2long!!

Man, you've got more gumption then I could ever dream of! And on that note, as Pep said...

Why not?

I'll just ask a few questions, and I don't expect any answers.

1) Do you think that there's any kind of problem with your drinking?

2) Do you think there could be any validity in the concerns expressed by your wife about the drinking?

3) What good do you get from drinking?

Hey, I used to be a HEAVY drinker, way back in my youth, before I got married. It used to take me at least 6 shots of hard liquor just to get the night started, at which point the real drinking could begin. You know what? It's been 9 full months since I last tasted alcohol of any kind (including cough syrup). And you know what else? I don't miss it!

So I just thought I'd share that with ya, even though every person is different, as are situations, as it appears are our habits. But those are some of the thoughts I had as I went though my process, and for a while there, the temptations to go back to my old habits became stronger and stronger. For me, the answers were...

1) Yes. Yes. Very much so YES!

2) Not really an issue for me in the same way, as I was cleaning my act up about the same time our relationship was getting serious. However, for me, in a strange way, it was the opposite. As though my lack of drinking (and the drugs I used to do as well) seemed to be an issue, because of the changes in my personality as I became clean and sober.

3) Very little benefit in the short term, and no benefit in the long term. For me, with my problems and habits, it helped me forget them for a few hours at a time. But as we all know, those problems don't go away just because you drink. So I still had to deal with them once I was sober again, only then I'd have to do it with a hangover! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Well, that's it. I just saw your post at the top of the list, and thought 'd chime in to an old buddy who helped me out a lot when I really needed it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

P.S. Besides, I couldn't pass up the Douglas Adams reference.

P.P.S. Man! You folks sure post fast here! Or is it just that I type slow. Or maybe that I'm just so darn long-winded?!

P.P.P.S (accompanied by the Beavis and [censored] laughs) hehe...heh...I said "p.p."...heh...hehehe

<small>[ July 19, 2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: UN ]</small>

UN:

"1) Do you think that there's any kind of problem with your drinking?"

Yes and no. It's "clearly" a problem 2 my W, but even then it's not clear that it isn't just another excuse for not ending contact permanently. It DOES also bother my D, but the times it's bothered her are when I was simultaneously upset about something her mother had just done. It's a net problem enough that I'm going 2 stop anyway.

"2) Do you think there could be any validity in the concerns expressed by your wife about the drinking?"

Oops. Answered this one above.

"3) What good do you get from drinking?"

Good beer tastes good. The buzz is nice, 2, but not so essential that I can't 2uit.

I never was a heavy drinker. I'd binge drink at parties, but if I did I would chuck it every time. Learned 2 associate ralphing with drinking 2 much, so I stopped that. I don't like hard liquor at all. In mixed drinks, rarely. I like red wines, but don't drink them very often at all. We've got a bottle brought over by a friend a 2ple months ago that's yet 2 be open.

I've never gotten drunk enough 2 forget what I've done.

But this is worth trying if for no other reason than 2 see just how "important" it'd become 2 me (I don't think it's much). I don't expect miracles in our R.

-ol' 2long

double post

<small>[ July 19, 2004, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: d_rose ]</small>

2,

If it is really an issue for her, then yes stopping would be the thing to do but...sounds like there might be some "he's-got-this-whole-RM-thing-on-me-what-can-I-find-to-pick-at-him-for" kinda sitch going (something smells of fish).

But if you do quit send the extries to me. Sounds like a good change of pace from the Boddington's and Bel Haven I usually drink.

Doug

2long, you're getting good advice. I suggest you avoid playing games and just GIVE GIVE GIVE. I had some habits that were unintentionally annoying (mainly speaking in a tone of voice that sucked her in when I was feeling anxiety), and I feel there were times that my W was unfair to be bothered by them. Know what? I still should have said, "Sorry, I will try not to do that anymore" rather than arguing with her about whether it was right for her to be bothered.

I sympathize with you here. I miss beer very much now that I'm on ADs. Not that I need to have a favorite, but my #1 desert island beer right now is Bell's Two-Hearted Ale.

There is no "fair" in "plan A".

GC

Just gotta say, I like your answers. You sure don't sound like somebody ruled by your insatiable desire for beer, and consuming it with reckless abandon and no concern for those around you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yea, I was just wondering ifyou saw any problems in yourself with regards to the drinking. But you sound ok to me. A case in a month? That's less than one drink per day average. 4 beers in one day at most? I probably have so much alcohol stored up in my system that I doubt 4 beers would even give me a buzz today, even after 9 months without any alcohol.

On that, I'd have to agree. It sure does sound an awful lot like an excuse to "level the playing field some", as it were. So what the heck? Take that ammunition away, and see what happens. If you/we are right, then what have you lost? A few good beers? If you/we are wrong, well then, no more beer is a small price to pay for a step forward in your marriage!

2ble

<small>[ July 19, 2004, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

I thought of something that happened Sa2rday after our convo (maybe only about 2 hours, in fact), that I told my W about, because it alarmed me.

I went 2 Home Despot for some joint compound. Got one of those big heavy flat carts in the parking lot 2 put them on. Started in the entrance door (Marked ENTRANCE in big letters above the door). It's wide enough that people can go out as well as in, so long as each stay 2 their right when they do. They had one of those rentacops at the exit side looking in2 people's carts and checking off their receipts. I was JUST about in the door, when some twit tried 2 come out in parallel with someone already at the rentacop. I had 2 pull hard 2 bring the heavy cart 2 a stop so I wouldn't hit him. What did he do? He didn't back up 2 let me through, he kept coming. I backed up a bit so he'd have enough room 2 move over and get in line behind the other guy at the rentacop, but he just kept coming, deliberately. By now I've got 2 people behind me waiting 2 get in. One says "gee, he won't even get out of your way." I suggested the guy try 2 go around because there were people behind me, but he wouldn't. When he got his receipt check off, I called him an AH, and he muttered some expletives in re2rn. Then I just went in2 the store 2 get my stuff. When I did, I realized that this wave of INTENSE anger had just about overcome me, because I felt like I was about 2 punch the guy in the side of the head. I've not been that angry in many, many years, and I've never acted out.

I told my W about that when I got back. She listened, then we got 2 work on the house.

Later, I realized that I wasn't so angry at the guy for what he'd done as "in effigy" at RM for messing with my family for the past 13 years, and my W's inability 2 realize what a "monster" he is BECAUSE of this.

And I just thought of that incident and my reaction 2 it because I will admit that I'm a little bugged at the responses I'm getting. It ISN'T a big sacrifice for me 2 2uit drinking beer. That's not the point. The point is that it's just ONE MORE in a nearly infinite series of concessions I've had 2 make in the past 2.5 years with NOTHING in re2rn. ...not that I'm suggesting that I have any right 2 expect anything.

One other possible PBL I might write would be: "bye."

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And I just thought of that incident and my reaction 2 it because I will admit that I'm a little bugged at the responses I'm getting.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey, sorry about that, and I can sure understand it. I doubt anyone means anything by it, really. Speaking for myself, I was just curious what you thought of it. If it's no big deal, then it's no big deal. So why let her have the ammunition?

Like I've said above, you've got a lot more gumption than I could ever hope to have. The time, and effort, and sacrifices you've made throught out your long and ongoing situation.....heck, I couldn't even make it more thana few months in mine. Yet still, it's not going to hurt anything to do this, right? You sacrifice a few beers, test your wife a bit, and test yourself a bit at the same time.

Hey, the beer will always be there when the time is right. And just in case it's not, that brewery isn't too far from where I live. So I could always go out and pick up a keg for you and keep it in storage, just in case they go out of business. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

2long,
You don't have to give up beer. You know you don't have to - and I understand when you say you have given up a lot, but she hasn't done much.

You know Pep pretty well, and you know she has your own best interrest at heart when she makes suggestions.

She understands how much you have given up - she knows how slow W has been to respond. She still suggested you make this offering.

Your head understands why, your heart is tired of it.

Remember, you can do what you want.

SS

o2l, it's pretty obvious you don't have a drinking problem. Give it up for a while and see if your W notices. If she does, and you recover, and if she doesn't really have a problem with it and is just being a big faker, then she'll change her attitude about it. If you don't recover, you can plan B her and drink as much beer as you like.

GC

For me

this is NOT about YOUR drinking
this IS
about showing respect for her request....

a LOVE BANK DEPOSIT opportunity...

do it sweetly, without "but what if" when you make love bank deposits...

YES...... you do this "even if" she sees RM.. why not?

It couldn't hurt.

Pep