I have been spending a lot of time on this board reading and learning. I posted for the 1st time last week (thank you for the responses). Could someone please give me a clear definition of EA (emotional affair?)? Also- this fog that everyone talks about- is this the fog that the WS is in- ex. denial, or not understanding what the problem is since it was only an EA, etc.
Thank you.

koala - An EA is an inappropriate relationship with someone when you are married. It is more than a friendship, and damages the marriage.

The fog we talk about is when the WS completely loses their mind, and is not thinking straight, but doesn't realize it. Then they all say and do the same things.

Koala,
Alot of people define an EA as any behavior that makes the other spouse uncomfortable. Unfortunately you and your spouse can go atound and around on this one.

In all of my readings the best definition comes from Shirley Glass in "Not Just Friends". Buy this book if you think your spouse is involved in one.

An EA cntains three components: secrecy, intimacy & Sexual chemistry.

Secrecy: Fairly obvious. Your spouse starts spending more an more time with someone. Usually lies of ommission are made to cover

Intimacy: I'm using the word in the broad sense. Your spouse is sharing his thoughts, dreams, likes, dislikes etc with the OP

It is especially bad if they are discussing the state of the marriage. That is IMHO an open invitation bc you're in effect probing to see how happy the OP is in their M.

Sexual Chemistry: This doesn't mean any sort of physical contact. it does mean that when you're in this person's presence the brain chemicals statrt percolating. The brain cocktail makes you feel good. Special etc.

Really dangerous if one party tells the OP that this is going on.

Does your spouse meet these prerequisites?

mac

mac,

EXCELLENT answer. I saw this one earlier and have been considering it on and off for some time.

I initially began to think about a friend. I mean if I had a same sex friend I was close to and putting this friend ahead of the marriage, is that also an emotional AFFAIR? Or is that me not looking after the spouse?

Or what about an activity: golf, fishing, etc.

You NAILED it. Secrecy, intimacy, sexual chemistry. Simple and descriptive.

Hats off,

NCWalker

Cwmac’s definition of an EA as described in the book “Not Just Friends” by Shirley Glass is excellent. Also read this article: "What is an Affair" by Dr Harley.

Regarding the Fog – the best way I can describe it is as follows:

Almost everyone goes through what we call the Fog when they first fell in love with their spouses. In a 'normal' relationship, this 'fog' isn't a problem. As the relationship progresses, the chemicals that cause this feeling eventually 'dry up' and then another kind of love takes it's place. Biologically there is probably no difference between falling in love and the “Fog”, but when the WS fall in love during an A, other dynamics come into play and it’s called the “Fog” instead. In an affair, biology takes the reins and oth the WS and the OP are riding that chemical wave. Physical attractiveness isn't usually an issue because the affair started through an emotional connection. Once the feeling of romantic love is established, everything else goes out the window, and this is what the BS calls the 'Fog'. Often people lose their spouses, their homes, their children, their jobs, their self respect, dignity and the respect of those around them to experience that feeling of romantic love. The upside to all of this is that inevitably, those chemicals will 'dry up' too. A strong relationship cannot be built on a foundation of lies. The WS and OP had to lie to themselves, each other, and everyone else in order to be together - all part of the "Fog". This is why most affairs end within 6 months after being exposed and why only 3% of people who started their relationship as an affair end up getting married and why 75% of those marriages fail.

Personal definition of:

1. Emotional affair (EA): The start of a relationship where the heart takes over with great feeling with positive or negative results.

In the case of an illicit relationship, the EA takes on a life and shape foreign to the family arrangement. The results cause great damage and hurt to immediate family members along with friends, workmates, acquaintances and relatives. In many cases homes are casted in disarray, finances suffer, security and love are lost. Even pets and the environment are victims.

2. Fog: In regards to illicit affairs, fog is the state of mind or lack thereof on the part of the illicit participants. These ones force others to live their lie and fantasy all the while causing tremendous hurt along with physical, financial, emotional and spiritual damage.

This state of mind and the disconnect between the mind and heart lead many a WS to conduct themselves in the most offensive ways. Some cases even results in death to various family members. The death blow to the M is also a casualty.

The term fog is used since it has the tendency to clog the reasoning pattern, clear up a bit, then set back in again. The same scenario is done over and over again. Causing great frustration to the BS, family and friends. Often work, finances and other person, places and things associated with the Ws and family suffer.

The above info is my personal take on these words/phrases. No dictionary will provide explanations to this effect. Even though these scenarios have been around for centuries, the names are fairly new. Mr. Webster doesn't have a word to describe it better than we have found. At least not yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

NOTE: Anyone can have an EA. Anyone can be caught in the fog. It still doesn't justify it nor make it right.

JMHO of course,
L.

Some good answers there koala

My 2c:

- An emotional affair is a friendship that your spouse has with someone of the opposite sex (usually! - assuming hetrosexual here) that makes you feel uncomfortable. Your marriage comes first and if it makes you feel bad and your husband won't put your feelings above the firendship then it has the same effect - the marraige is now in difficulty

- 'Fog' is the web of self-deceit and warped logic (although 'logic' is an oxymoron here) that the WS's get into to try and justify their own conduct to themselves. You've had all the symptoms given above etc. I disagree with the other posted that it is the same as falling in love - it isn't. The emotional feelings might be, but the destructive behaviour isn't part of falling in love normally.

Thank you all for your responses. I feel more comfortable knowing exactly what I am up against (2 EA's). Hopefully not PA's.

"An EA is an inappropriate relationship with someone when you are married. It is more than a friendship, and damages the marriage"- that applies to both EA's.

"secrecy, intimacy & Sexual chemistry"- that also applies to both EA's.

"Really dangerous if one party tells the OP that this is going on"- that has happened in 1 of the EA's but don't know about the other. In fact, the OW told my H she still had feelings for him (she was his ex-girlfriend) but didn't want to leave her H. (Yet she continued to see, call, e-mail, give gifts, etc to my H).

All of your answers have really helped me.

Questions- 1 of the EA's happened a few years ago (sexual e-mails that I caught). But H and OW still talk and meet for lunch sometimes. I hate the relationship- but H won't stop it. What do you recommend I do with this one? OWH doesn't know (that I am aware of).

The other EA started in December 03. H told me OW and himself agreed to call off the 'friendship' because they had hurt their families- turned them upside down. Well- it continues. I'm not positive OWH knows for sure (may have been a lie). E-mails still occurr. Phone calls from the cell do not (H realized I had access to the details on the bill online). What do I do with this one?

The excuses seem so valid and make me feel guilty for thinking something is happening. I really would like some advice.

Thanks.

Call the OWH's or better still write/e-mail them.
Draft it here for responses if you like.

Get your thoughts clear in your head and get what evidence you have. State that it makes you uncomfortable and that you want the friendships to stop as you do not think it is healthy for either marriage. If the OWH's are already aware, then it doesn't hurt. If not, then they deserve to know.

Worst case: OW convinces her husband that you are a crank. Big deal - it could save your marriage.

Exposure is a cornerstone of the Harley methodology and I doubt that I am the only one that wishes now that I had done more of it and sooner.

Koala,
IMHO, it's best to contact OW'sH for a face to face. Take a copy of the e-mail evidence to leave with him.

Since most people will want to know why you want to meet (my counterpart did) I'd suggest calling him from your cell near his house or place of work. Tell him you're nearby and you'd like to swing by to talk to him briefly. try not to give in to his request for a more detailed reason.

I made this mistake and ended up telling OM's W over the phone. Several things wrong with that. She couldn't see the evidence and she didn't see the pained look on my face.

Due to these shortcomings the over the phone method id more easily dismissed. It's easier for the OW to convince her H that you are an insanely jealous crackpot who is borderline dangerous. If he sees you and the evidence in person, he'll know it's the truth.

Buy "Not Just Friends" immediately. Read it. It'll convince you that these "friendships" are in reality EAs.

Mac

PS NC Walker thank you for the kind words but as I referenced my definition is from Shirley Glass' book

Koala,
Wanted to bump this

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Originally posted by Salerio:
<strong>I disagree with the other posted that it is the same as falling in love - it isn't. The emotional feelings might be, but the destructive behaviour isn't part of falling in love normally.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Salerio, just want to correct something:

I have said that BIOLOGICALLY there is probably no difference between falling in love and the Fog... The emotional/romantic feelings; chemical reaction etc. is the same. I agree the thing that separates falling in love from the "Fog" is indeed the destructive behaviour involved, but this is not the same thing as the biological/chemical reaction.

I'd see the falling in love as a precursor to the fog in the case of an A. For me the fog refers to the lack of any sense of logic or reality in order to continue the A. That isn't required in 'conventional' falling in love.

I suppose we can agree that the falling in love bit is biologically the same.

CWMAC,
Does bump mean- to get it to the front of the board? Still new to these terms. Thanks.

Thank you everyone for comments- I truly appreciate them. Wanted to write sooner but I keep having problems where at the top it says I'm logged in "hello, koala"- but I try to post a reply and it says I'm not logged in.

Anyway, I have started communications again with H and intend tonight to ask more questions about the EA's. Depending on those answers will decide whether or not I contact the OWH's. I will let you all know how it goes.

ps- I really do want my M to work. I am trying hard not to LB, nag, or anything else negative. I am trying. Also- I think I may be in BS fog that has been discussed elsewhere on this board.

Thank you,
Koala <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sorry

<small>[ July 22, 2004, 04:14 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Salerio:
<strong> I'd see the falling in love as a precursor to the fog in the case of an A. For me the fog refers to the lack of any sense of logic or reality in order to continue the A. That isn't required in 'conventional' falling in love.

I suppose we can agree that the falling in love bit is biologically the same. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Salerio, I understand what you mean and I agree with you. Thanks for your explanation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I understand now how my definition of the "fog" came through as illogical & confusing.

Suzet

::::- 'Fog' is the web of self-deceit and warped logic (although 'logic' is an oxymoron here) that the WS's get into to try and justify their own conduct to themselves.

that sounds right


::::You've had all the symptoms given above etc. I disagree with the other posted that it is the same as falling in love - it isn't. The emotional feelings might be, but the destructive behaviour isn't part of falling in love normally.

Married happily for 30 yrs!

My H claims he didn't fall in love with his OW. There was no emotional attachement initially because he didn't know the OW when it started. He received a letter in the post from her, saying hello, and that they were neighbours and that if he wanted to get to know her better he should look out the window at 9pm that nite. He recognised the name, it was a girl he'd met briefly about a month earlier on our apartment block shuttle bus. He remembered she was young and attractive. And it started.

She was very young (half his age), with large breasts (he remembered). He knew little about her but he felt flattered that a young woman would approach him and he took it as a 'come on' - fog, fog, fog. He knew she was a full time domestic maid and that those girls were not for serious relationships. She was from a poor country and at some level he knew she using him to get money from him. Though he managed to convince himself that she was attracted to him (more fog) because he had a good job - which may have been true.

He acted fog like, according to the info discussed on MB's. He had been a highly sensible reliable man until then, but he risked a huge amount to be with her - though he got very stressed about the risk he was taking. His stated interest in her was sex. And though he felt sorry for her, he also desired sexual intimacy with her.

When I discovered the A, he called her immediately and told her it was over. He appeared to have no feelings for her. Yet some of his comments were very fog like. Plus he'd recently given her a photograph of the pair of them arm in arm. Such a stupid thing to do as maids blackmail western men here. Giving her a photograph was unbelievably stupid - especially as he admitted that he didn't trust her. Like an ordinary A, he acted pretty stupid. And he wasn't normally a stupid person.

I always imagine that he felt some strong feelings for her but he denies it. He said she was a "bit on the side" or "a side show".

I think the feelings involved in extra marital affairs are highly diverses. I'm taking solace from the thought that he didn't care for her - but at some level I'm sure he did. (my fog) At least for a while. He had no withdrawal, just total and utter determination to stop me from leaving him. He said they did not connect intellectually and he found her quite boring at times. She's more or less intitutionalised and has limited English, so I'm sure she was hard work.