I think some of you may have confused me with someone else.

I admire your desire to save your marriages. I don't have that desire. I didn't come back here for awhile because of all the negative comments. But I guess I can understand. I am going to make myself better for a man who deserves me.

I think I can agree with that - you do deserve each other.

Hi Cheffy,

This thread has been interesting. I read it for the first time today.

From the outside looking in, the responding posts, which for the most part sound the alarm for a lifetime of terror, may be intended to help you, but their tenor probably is doing more to alienate you than to bring you to a reasonable resolution to your current issue. In this post, no offense is intended to you or the other participants in this thread.

I can certainly understand where you are coming from. I felt, as an H in my first marriage, that my life was unappreciated and adrift after 15 years. I had one child about 9. My wife was a SAHM. She was an outstanding woman. Still is, in fact.

After an affair with another SAHM who expressed that her marriage was a failure due to her H's inattention and sexual proclivities, I found myself alone when she decided that her H was the one for her after all. She played the part of the caring ultimate soulmate for enough time to give me comfort in my decision to divorce. To boot, she used her Roman Catholic world to justify that she only strayed because I "lured" her away. Convenient for her, but disingenuous entirely.

I have since remarried someone who is wonderful. She has a child who is 9, and I am gradually learning to like.

I am not discouraging you from pursuing your dream. However, it would make it cleaner for all considered, if you decide to divorce and continue with your friend, to let your kids stay with your H and to relocate to where your friend lives. As for alimony, it is an unnecessary string that will keep you tied to, and somewhat reliant on, your ex-H. Visiting the kids and having them visit you need be the only interaction with the ex-H. Make the break clean.

Again, I am not discouraging or criticizing you. Your decision is made, and there is no need to belabor it. What I can give is practical advice on going forward.

I would be happy to go into more depth if you would like. I do wish you the best in your attempt for a better life.

So, Guidance, did you forfeit all because you made the decision to break the marriage contract? Did you give up any custody of your kids as well as forfeit your share of all liquid assets and property jointly held with your wife?

If not, why not? This would seem the reasonable thing to do consistent with your "noble" approach to a split.

I'd like to understand your rationale.

WAT,

Good to hear from you.

Yes, I indeed gave well over half of all assets, not only liquid assets, to my ex-W. I share custody, due to my ex-W and I having a very good co-parenting relationship.

Certainly, I paid dearly for the decision that I made at that time...and justifiably so. Life goes on, as it will, and a person can and should pick up and move on. I am not justifying the decision that I made years ago, nor saying it was right. My point, however, is that sometimes a decision will cost dearly, so count up that cost as best as you can before moving forward. The OW in my case was the wrong decision. Her deception and subsequent self-righteousness made that abundantly clear. In fact she was a regular poster to this forum five years ago, providing a lot of "sound advice" as a restored "white as snow" Catholic girl. And everyone unknowingly ate up the rantings of a hypocrite.

The Lord forgives wrong decisions, but the consequences are never eliminated. Thus, I will not cast a stone on someone who is making a decision--whether perceptively bad or good, when I am not all-knowing and all-seeing with regard to all the facts. But I believe without question that that person must be willing to accept and deal with the consequences.

<small>[ July 25, 2004, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: Guidance ]</small>

Cheffy:

"I think some of you may have confused me with someone else."

The coincidences were rather alarming, 2 be sure. Doesn't matter, really. You're 2th anonymous here, and 2th need the same king of help out of similar si2ations. Whether you choose 2 llisten 2 the advice here or not is entirely up 2 you. But you might again consider whether you're best served here, versus someplace like gloryb.

"I admire your desire to save your marriages."

Thanks.

"I don't have that desire."

And if you admire people who try 2 save their M's, knowing that si2ations involving infidelity are very much like your own, do you admire yourself for choosing not 2 even try? I know I wouldn't, if it were me.

"I didn't come back here for awhile because of all the negative comments."

They only seem negative, because they go against this self-destructive path you've chosen for yourself (and your family, without their approval).

"But I guess I can understand. I am going to make myself better for a man who deserves me."

Your H? Good for you! ...but I know that isn't what you meant. Remember, there is no such thing as "soulmates", only "@$$hole mates".

But you do "deserve" the chance 2 see whether you'll be one of the 3-5% that survive 2gether after starting a R born of an A.

-ol' 2long

<small>[ July 25, 2004, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Guidance:
<strong>Yes, I indeed gave well over half of all assets, not only liquid assets, to my ex-W. I share custody, due to my ex-W and I having a very good co-parenting relationship.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, you did not forfeit everything? Correct?

Why not, since you didn't honor your contract?

Why should you have gotten any assets or get any custody?

WAT

WAT,

It is abundantly clear that much was lost in my situation.

In contractual arrangements, the party breaking the deal does not forfeit everything unless the contract is written as such. A contract is most frequently valued by what each party brings to the deal. To imply that a "marriage contract" implicitly has such a provision of total loss does not have merit in a rationale discourse pertaining to issues that are already charged with excessive emotion. Respectfully, what you describe is more akin to what happens at a black jack table in Las Vegas. Perhaps that is how we should view decisions to marry, to stay married or to divorce--a gamble, rather than a contract, where the winner takes all.

I appreciate your feedback.

Most states are "no fault" and nearly all states don't consider adultery a crime. I think that's a shame.

End result is that it's possible for a woman 2 cheat on her H, leave him, and still take him 2 the cleaners and take his kids away from him.

I don't think that adulterers should be put in the ground or anything, but I do think that "alienation of affection" laws should be more universally allowed than they are. I'd sue the pants off RM.

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Guidance:
<strong>It is abundantly clear that much was lost in my situation.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not enough for you, methinks.

More than you can imagine was lost by others, I propose.

Blackjack, of course not. You chose to gamble in a far more critical game. You define your integrity by comparing life to a card game.

Anything less than a total loss is not enough for this table.

WAT

WAT,

C'mon, now....In the span of just a few short exchanges, you have acted as judge and jury over something which you have little knowledge of the facts. For Pete's sake, you have even concluded that I am a gambler (which I am not).

The bitterness that you seemingly harbor over the break up of your marriage has apparently hardened your heart and coarsened your outlook, which will cause more damage to others on this board who need real help in their real lives.

Case in point. The OW to whom I have referred in earlier postings lost a court case to me due significantly to advice she received from this forum. The advice was dispensed freely, but it proved devastating to her in the courtroom.

It is extremely important that those who post and advise use care and thought, rather than emotion and flippancy, in what they advise others. None has all the information they need to make the "right" judgement for those seeking advice on this board.

As always, I appreciate your feedback.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Guidance:
<strong>For Pete's sake, you have even concluded that I am a gambler (which I am not).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You cheated, you gambled.

End of discussion.

WAT

WAT,

The Marriage Builders forum is Christian-based in its focus, which is clear in the Harley books. Forgiveness is a significant basis of Christianity.

I am sure the pain that you endured in your own situation continues to be tremendous. I certainly wish the best for you during the healing process. However, your reasoning would have demanded that King David in the Old Testament lose his kingdom entirely due to his adultery with Bathsheba, a married woman. While David did suffer consequences, God did forgive him, and he went on to prosper as king. David remained pre-eminent in God's sight not only throughout the remainder of his life, but also throughout the remainder of his mention in the Bible.

Again, I caution what advice is dispensed on this site. It isn't necessarily desirable to have the "wounded" help others until they are healed themselves.

I appreciate your feedback, but it has become circuitous rather than constructive.

Best regards.

Guidance, thankyou so much for giving me some support. I do feel stronger now.

After reading the goings on here today I must say that the attitude is pretty much "GET OVER IT" from you Guidance. Of course you are eloquant and profound in your word choice. But once again these are words that most people who pursue an A speak --- if only to justify what they have done. This is a "Marriage Building" site not an "it's ok to cheat, lie, build another life and leave destruction behind you" site.

I'm sorry I can't say that I'm glad for your new life but I will not judge you. Actually your life is none of my business until you set it out here on the boards.

However, telling someone to go forward with an A and D just because you did or because of "free will" is not "sound advice" to me. Atleast you made someone like Cheffy "feel better" That should make you "feel better" too I suppose. This is why the concept of marriage and the marriage vows are being made a sham in today's world.

Isn't the saying "Let everyone do whatever they want as long as no one gets hurt"? ----but in this case an H and innocent children are being hurt just so someone can be selfishly happy.

And for your information I am not bitter and angry about my past life. I am the poster child for ending up with a better life--much more than I would have ever believed possible. However, my children have paid a price for my WS actions. They still have trouble accepting the selfish actions of their parent.

I am not a Christian, but I am a very moral person and I find MB to make lots of sense. It is morally sound and I'd have to say good psychology. I think that in some respects plan A is bad for you, but the unhealthy pieces - burying your emotions and not demanding that a WS respect very many boundaries - are temporary measures meant to support the greater good of saving a marriage, and they are ultimately part of an effort to forgive.

As for using the old testament to justify affairs, with all due respect, that's a bunch of jive. Old testament heroes had sex with their daughters and slept with their maids. If your measure of something being a good idea from a religious perspective is whether or not some O.T. hero got away with it, you might make Cheffy feel better, but you've got my B.S. detector going off big time.

GC

Good going GC!
That was going to be my next observation.
Just hate it when they use the Bible this way...

Cheffy~~~

If you don't listen to anything else from these posts, please, PLEASE listen to this...

Children are NOT as resilient as we would like to think. My ex had an affair and decided to leave to be with her. My children were 10, 7.5 and 2.5 at the time. Now, my oldest is 14. He is having so many problems, as is the middle. They are both VERY angry at their father. My oldest is suffering from depression, (taking Zoloft now), has run away 2 times, has been smoking, and experimenting with drugs and alcohol. NOW, I know he didn't get this from me because I don't do drugs and rarely drink. My middle one is having trouble making and keeping friends and in school. Both have severe behavior problems. My youngest, thank God, doesn't remember his father living with us.

It is horrible to divorce just because of not being happy. Make your marriage happy!!!!!

And if you get a divorce, you may not get custody of your children. You are having an affair and your husband can use that against you in court. You could be stuck seeing your children every other weekend. And forget about alimony if you're in a relationship. You may not get it. AND a judge can order that your "new man" can not be around your children for anything. I had the jodge order it in my case. My ex's girlfriend couldn't be around my kids because it is immoral and hurtful for them to be around another "companion" of their father's when he was still married to their mother. She couldn't be around them until the divorce was final. Yes, it does happen!!

Think long and hard about all of this!!

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

been/there-done/that,

Thank you for your reply.

I believe my point was misunderstood. My encouragement is not to commit adultery or to divorce. My point has been that Cheffy's decision was basically made and that the cost of decisions--good or bad, must be considered before executing them. Further, the judgemental tones that were being expressed in the thread were doing more to encourage Cheffy to pursue the course of divorce, rather than the opposite.

Personally, I would hope that all marriages would work and that all families would stay together. However, if one's heartfelt beliefs are grounded in Christianity, he or she understands that all have sinned. Sometimes marriages end and families break up.

Sin harmfully affects others around us, not only ourselves. This is true whether it be lying, coveting, infidelity, divorce, or even what the "betrayed" spouse might have done to contribute to the breakup of the marriage. The Scriptures have not established a hierarchy of sins of which some are unforgivable, including those pertaining to marital infidelity.

The aforesaid does not excuse infidelity, whether mine or anyone else's, but it does put into perspective that it is presumptuous and, yes, self-righteous--potential sins in themselves--to sit in judgement and "cast stones" for one sin while not recognizing that we all have sinned. Recall Jesus confronting the crowd who were intent on stoning the harlot at the well. The crowd turned and walked away, after Jesus wrote in the sand and asked he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Yes, I am blessed to have been forgiven for my past sin of infidelity by God, my ex-W, and daughter. I am blessed to now have a W who is a fine, loving woman. There are consequences that remain--and always will, but the judgement of certain people who lack the understanding of basic Christian forgiveness has no relevance to me. Nor should it have relevance to any other truly repentent heart.

People are hurting on this site. Their pain does not need stoked by those who delight in condemning one sin while overlooking the other sins in their own lives.

Let us be constructive. And if in pain, seek advice, do not provide it.

Best regards.

OK just a quick word.

If I hadn't found this site and the people here I would have made the biggest and I mean BIGGEST mistake of my life.

I would have left my husband and followed a path that would have caused nothing but pain for two families because despite what all those foggy WS's think - IT IS NOT REAL. The ultimate thought when you come through the fog is 'WHAT WAS I THINKING?"

Good grief, WAT, I'm completely and utterly defogged. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Jen