ive been happily married for 5 years to a gem of a guy - v have always been known to be the 'totally in love with each other couple' since we began dating 8 years ago. last year i relocated to a new place and met a guy with who i started out as being friends, then lovers and then i was completely in love with him. my husband joined me about 4 mths later and i continued to have a relationship with my boyfriend. i introduced him to my husband and friends and we always hung out together - he practically lived in my house - two months ago before we completed a year (me and my boyfriend) - i introduced him to my sister who liked him - she thought we used to be lovers but were now just good friends - so the two of them started out behind my back - i found out completely by accident and was completely shaken and heart broken. i told my husband about my affair and broke off contact with my boyfriend. but my sister who did the same has now resumed a long distance chat with him. it annoys me and makes me angry and sick at the same time - whenever i feel like calling him up - i try to remember the fact that he did both of us at the same time - sometimes on the same days - i had never planned on breaking up with my husband - maybe i am selfish - but he loves me completely - and i did not want to break his heart - i always foolishly used to dream that he would someday fall in love with someone else leaving me free to be with my boyfriend. anyway, my husband wants us to work on our marriage and does not want to let go of what we had - he has put down my affair to a mistake - i love him and am very very comfortable with him - but i am so confused - i know there can never be anything between me and my boyfriend now - coz of what he did with my sister in my own house - but i cannot stop thinking of him and the past year - i cannot focus on anything else - im filled with guilt, shame, sadness, nausousness etc. i feel tempted to call him up just to hear his voice. in fact i just did today and was then guilty. i have tried telling my sister too not to keep in touch (thinking in some weird way) that it would help me get out of my funk faster - but she says that she needs to get out of it in her own way - and if that means keeping in touch with him for some time then so be it. my other sister says that i am jealous - but how can i be jealous when i know that my sister will never get together with this guy again - please tell me how to get over him and rebuild my marriage. i love my husband who is really caring and gentle but do not want to drag him down with me if i do not get over this madness of mine.

First off, I don't understand why it bothers you that he is romancing your sister? He is a free male who can romance whomever he wishes. And it's not like he has any honor [he was screwing a married woman after all] so you can't realistically expect honor from a dishonorable man.

Secondly, your marriage has serious problems that will never go away unless you get honest with your H about your feelings. This will happen again until you find out what led to this and tell your H the truth about what is going on.

<small>[ July 20, 2004, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

thank u for ur post. i did tell my husband last month all about my affair - he knows it all right from the start. i know my boyfriend is a free man and can romance whoever he wants - i just dont feel physically and mentally allright when i know that he is still in touch with my sister. i am trying to figure out why i feel that. and i do feel that after i can come to terms with it - i will be able to move on and mend my marriage with my husband like he wants it.

the reasons i told my husband about my affair were:
i have been living a lie for the past year -
ive been feeling dirty, guilty and sick with myself when i was alone or with my husband
i had to stop him from coming home or keeping in touch with me or my husband (and i thought the only way he would stop coming home wd b if i told my husband) -
i was also scared that he would tell my husband himself when i got to know about him and my sister (and i did not put anything past him)
yes i know he has no honour sleeping with a married woman - but then i dont have any either.
i want to forget him but do not know how. i keep thinkign dark thoughts of him when i feel lonely and sad - i can be sitting in a group of people and yet suddenly miss him around - he really was around me and my husband 24/7 - and we really have not too many friends around (forget family) - my sister is also now 1000s of miles away in another country. so please tell me what to do.
my husband wants to work on our marriage but does not want to go to counselling or even discuss further any thing about my affair - he has decided to put it down to me being lonely - coz last year when this started it was the first time in 8 years that we were ever apart from each other.

lil, what you are going through is pretty normal. Affairs are often like addictions and when you end them you go through a withdrawal of sorts. This is why no contact is so important. Because every time you are back in contact, it puts you back to day 1 in recovery.

I would suggest 2 things: avoiding your sister for now so you don't have to be reminded all the time. And secondly, please get a couple of books from this website to help you understand what has happened here so you can affair proof your marriage. Surviving an Affair and His Needs/Her Needs by Willard Harley. They should be real eye openers for you.

And lastly, I applaud you for having the courage to tell your H. Your reasons are very sound and make me believe that you truly are a good, compassionate person who cares about others. Your actions AFTER your affair define who you really are, Lil. Sure, you did a very bad thing [I don't have to tell you that] but you had the courage and moral foundation to face the consequences and I know that was not easy. I am impressed.

Welcome to Marriage Builders. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

dear melody,
thank u again for ur post - the point is my family is a very very close knit one - v r miles away from each other = but we have always been very close - my sisters are my best friends - this particular sister is younger than me - she is only 21 years old and i feel morally responsible for having introduced her to my boyfriend - so u see i think it is my moral responsibility to get her out of it - she feels completely shattered herself and is grieving and my heart hurts for her - i have tried to put into pockets each person, each relationship and each heart break and am trying to deal with it one at a time - im not succeeding at any.
my sister needs me - i do not want her to think for even a second that i have abandoned her in her time of need or that i am angry with her (if anything - she did me a great favor - coz if she hadnt come over to my home - i wd never have known what a jerk my boyfriend was and wd have continued my sleazy life)
secondly, wot does one do physically when one is so damn tempted to call my boygriend - i know u probably think im sick - i mean i strangely am unable to apply my own logic to myself - the one i have been dishing out to my sister - on how it is beneath her to be in touch with him after all that has happened. its getting to me and i burst out crying. i keep telling myself that if i talk to him im disrespecting my husband all over again - but then another part of me starts whispering that my boyfriend is a normal sweet loving guy who was with me when i needed a friend - someone i culd talk with about anything under the sun, the one person i was comfortable with (i am the same with my husband - but ive noticed in the past year - that the kind of person i am with my boyfriend is diff from the kind of person i am with my husband) at times - i am ashamed to say this - and guess shdnt say it - but i do find my husband boring - the world however thinks hes awesome and fun and i do feel pride when v r togethr in a group - but when v r alone i get bored

lil,,.

Part of maturity is learning to not act on your every feeling. When you know your feeling is wrong, you don't act on it, that is how you handle it. It is hard at first, but the more you do it, the easier it becomes. However, you DO have full control over your feelings and must control them.

As far as your sister, I don't see that you can help her right now. You are barely in recovery yourself. You have nothing to give. Talking to her about her heartbreak is bound to be a trigger that you simply can't deal with right now. She has other people she can rely on who are better equipped to deal with this. You really need to back off from her right now until you get to a better place mentally.

Lil,

I agree with all that Melody has said. You are in withdrawal but I would like you to reread what you have posted here.

I would like to remind you that you are posting to a marriage building site, and yet you clearly admit that if your sister hadn't entered the picture you would still be with your "sweet boyfriend" and cheating on your H with NO second thoughts at all.

I also notice that you mention that your H wants to move on and stay in the marriage, but it is not clear you do. It sounds as if you don't have any children, so why did you stay with your H? You clearly don't love him, and you just as clearly don't respect him.

So what do you want to do? If it is save the marriage then YOU have a lot of work to do. IF it is just focus on your sister and how she cheated you out of your boyfriend, then perhaps you need to find another site.

You said somethings I would like you to reflect on </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">thank u again for ur post - the point is my family is a very very close knit one - v r miles away from each other = but we have always been very close - my sisters are my best friends - this particular sister is younger than me - she is only 21 years old and i feel morally responsible for having introduced her to my boyfriend </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But, you don't feel morally responsible for showing her you feel that adultery is fine??? You don't feel morally responsible for including her in the lies you told your H and essentially making her a party to your adultery and lies??

So where does your close knit family stand on the subjects of adultery, lying, cheating, etc?

Time to broaden your focus Lil, this NOT all about you, it is about many other people and I am thinking they would not be very happy or proud of your behavior although you express no remorse.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- so u see i think it is my moral responsibility to get her out of it - she feels completely shattered herself and is grieving and my heart hurts for her - i have tried to put into pockets each person, each relationship and each heart break and am trying to deal with it one at a time - im not succeeding at any.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not sure what this means. What who are you trying to put into pockets and what do you plan to do when you get them there? I would strongly suggest that if you feel morally responsible for your sister, you need to apologize to her for the example you set, and not so much for the man you introduced her to. You knew he had no morals he was more than willing to be with a married woman and rub it in her H's face by pretending to be "just friends" with your H and his W (that would be you.) So you already knew he had no morals and that did not bother you, and you did not worry about him being introduced to your sister. So why are you worrying now?? It is time to face the consequences of your decisions and you are still dodging them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
my sister needs me - i do not want her to think for even a second that i have abandoned her in her time of need or that i am angry with her (if anything - she did me a great favor - coz if she hadnt come over to my home - i wd never have known what a jerk my boyfriend was and wd have continued my sleazy life)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You already knew what a jerk your BF was, you just did not want to admit it. And she did NOT do you a favor, she got hurt because she did not know right from wrong. She knew you were married, and she knew you were cheating with this guy, so she knew this guy was scum. Yet, she followed her sisters example and got burned. I know I don't sound very sympathetic but stupidity and rationalizations of it don't really work. You need to face some very very hard facts. Neither you nor your sister were bothered by your adultery. You both knew this BF had no morals either, and you both are acting like victims.

This is like playing with snakes and then being surprised when they bite you. It is what they do. Your BF did what men of his caliber do, they cheat and they cheat on whoever they are with. The question is what caliber of woman are you??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
secondly, wot does one do physically when one is so damn tempted to call my boygriend - i know u probably think im sick - i mean i strangely am unable to apply my own logic to myself - the one i have been dishing out to my sister - on how it is beneath her to be in touch with him after all that has happened. its getting to me and i burst out crying.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is part of the withdrawal and the only way to get through it is to NOT CAll HIM. If you do, the withdrawal starts all over again. You don't have to worry about applying "logic" nothing you have done is very logical, and sure doesn't fit with any morals you might have felt you had. This is also normal but it is something you are going to have to finally admit so that you can get through the withdrawals. The only person not cheating in this mess is of course your H, who you are not very worried about, and the OM who was free to make it with whoever dropped their pants first. He had no morals and you know it and further he had no obligations or made any promises to either of you. You and your sister had no problems betraying those around you so.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> i keep telling myself that if i talk to him im disrespecting my husband all over again</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Frankly, I have seen nothing stated here that would suggest that you have any respect for your H, nor any real remorse for him. Your big concern is about losing your BF, not your H. This is part of the "fog" that is discussed here, but I would like to suggest that you begin to look at things differently or you may yet lose your H. Of course then you could have your BF any time you wanted and he is of course as you describe him below such a nice, honest, moral man.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> - but then another part of me starts whispering that my boyfriend is a normal sweet loving guy who was with me when i needed a friend - someone i culd talk with about anything under the sun, the one person i was comfortable with (i am the same with my husband - but ive noticed in the past year - that the kind of person i am with my boyfriend is diff from the kind of person i am with my husband) at times - i am ashamed to say this - and guess shdnt say it - but i do find my husband boring -</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IF this is really true that you find your H boring, and it is true that you have no children, then I think you owe to your H to divorce him. I realize this is marriage builders, but you are NOT a friend to your H right now and clearly you are justifying your affair because your H was boring. But nothing justifies what you did, and frankly I don't believe he is that boring or you would not have said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ive been happily married for 5 years to a gem of a guy - v have always been known to be the 'totally in love with each other couple' since we began dating 8 years ago.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It was your relocation that caused some of this and I am guessing you relocated so that YOU could be in a better position in the future. Am I right?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> the world however thinks hes awesome and fun and i do feel pride when v r togethr in a group - but when v r alone i get bored </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />


So he is just a trophy to you is that right. You spent 8 years with a guy that bores you and you describe him in glowing terms. Lil, you need to grow up and you need to seriously talk with your H. He needs to talk to you about all of this and not just forgive you. Right now he thinks he is married to the woman he loves but the reality is you are not the woman he loves. That needs to change for this marriage to have a chance. You need to start focusing on him, and discuss with him your issues, even if he does not want to. He needs to know you find him "boring". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Lil, I hope you read the articles on this site, and specifically the articles on needs and Love Busters. I won't say your marriage can be saved because it is not clear you want to save it. It is not clear you even want to discuss your marriage as really all you have discussed is your BF and your sister. You have very little to say about your H, except that you have not had a problem cheating on him and rubbing his face in your affair.

Time to stop and really think Lil. You are messing with a lot of peoples lives and you are doing it with very little concern for them.

I hope you can sort this out a bit, and if you decide you really do want to work on your marriage, I am sure many will do their best to help.

God Bless,

JL

wot all of you say is so true and right. i have been shamelessly worrying about my bf and my supposed broken heart and not given a thought to what my h is feeling - yes we relocated for a better life and we have it all - and then i messed up - i know it and i hanker for the close life my h and i shared the absolute joy i felt when id see him at the end of a work day - i guess the past year made me blind to him and his feelings and in my rational moments i did know i was disrespecting him - unfortunately i also thought i was in love with my bf - i know this is stupid. i really do want to get over him (bf) and start all over again with my h. so im going to try my best and stop all thots and focus on our marriage. can i still come back if i need to talk to someone ?
how long does it take for the withdrawals to get over ? its only been a month since i told him to keep away from us, and since i told my husband - and this month has really been stressful. no we do not have any kids - and i do NOT want my marriage to end - i love my h - i know my actions have been to the contrary - and if i could i would like to erase the whole of last year.

my husband's behaviour is also bothering me a bit. the first 2 days after i told him - he raved and ranted at me - which was expected - then he did an about face and told me that he loves me and wants to put the whole thing behind us. for the past month - v have spent a lot of time together - just the two of us - something we havent done in a year. but its weird coz at times we sit on the sofa and then look at each other and say 'now what' - im a talker while my h is the kind who bottles it all up inside - this weekend i broke down and told him that i really needed for us to talk about what and why we came apart - at first he said he didnt want to talk to me or to a counselor and just wanted to erase it out. then he told me that everytime he looks at me or i look at him - he thinks that im thinking of my bf (which is not the case - i honestly look at him and a part of my brain is asking me why and how i could have done this to him and to us). then he told me that he wanted us to give it a shot at working our marriage for 6 mths - then he held me and told me that nope i want to be with you for the rest of my life - we have always been great friends - and for the first time this weekend i actually saw him demonstrate a bit of possessiveness towards me (which i liked very much).
i dont know if im alone on this thot - but i hate meeting people, getting to know them so well and then never havign to see them again - i have never been unfaithful before this was my first time and im having mixed feelings from disgust with myself to the way ive treated my husband shabbily - i think even the past month ive taken him for granted and your right that if i do not buckle up fast i will lose my h. but you are wrong abt the fact that i will ever go back to my bf - no way - i have some self respect left - which is why i dint talk to him for a month - but got weak again today. i am going to concentrate my energies into more productive stuff - i want for me to become the woman i was until a year ago - i want for my marriage to work - and i want my h and me to be happy again. my husband asked me if i was habituated to him - which is why i did not break off with him (h) - yes 8 years is a long time - but its not just habituation - i truly love him and do not want to hurt him - if i can blank out my nonsense for him and me i will. yes passing off my bf as 'just a friend' having him stay in my house every alternate day/ night and including him in our schedule is the most sickest selfish thing i did = but when i did it i thought i did it out of love - but i was wrong.
my family is not into affairs, adultery etc. i have no clue wot happened or why it did - i will apologise to my sister for introducing her to my sickness.
can i come back for more advice should i need it (i am assuming i will need it and its always good to hear some hard truths about ones self)

Lil,

Yes, do come back for advice, but you do see what I am talking about? Reread your posts here. You are still not being honest with yourself or your H. You made it a month with no contact but you did contact BF today. Have you told your H about it?? You need to. I really think you need to read the articles on this site about "radical honesty", it is what will save your marriage.

You need to realize that your H is much more deeply hurt than you realize. Reconsider his questions to you. He is asking you are you still with him out of habit, because he does not feel you love him or respect him. He now knows that you had your OM around him all of the time and you were both making Fools of your H. You showed no respect and he doubts you respect him now.

Finally, you need to really really think about your value system. What is moral in your thinking? You need to really think about what you vowed to do when you married. You have failed ALL of your vows to your H and how are you going to rebuild trust and meaning to your vows?

As for your sister and your interactions with her, clearly she accepts that cheating on an H is fine. She had no problems with you cheating on your H and making a fool of him. She had no problems sleeping with your BF as well. She is very unlikely to EVER marry happily unless her moral compass is reset.

You have corrupted her and you need to talk to her about this. She clearly sees marriage as something you do, but don't pay much attention to, and if someone comes along you can just push your H aside and do what you enjoy doing.

I think given your description of your H, as he deals with his pain you will see more anger or he will withdraw from you. You need to start acting now to help him. You need to be talking to him, letting him talk to you, and make sure that this is NOT swept under the rug, or it will come and destroy your marriage.

As for forgetting OM, sadly you won't be able to do that. You will have to live with it and also focus on your H. It will be a long while before the memories and urges leave you. That is why an affair is often referred to as an addiction. It does modify the brain chemistry much like drugs do.

Frankly, I don't know what you expect out of your life or what you feel a good husband is, but I strongly urge you to sit down and start figuring out what these things mean to you. If you don't know or understand the vow you have made, then he needs to understand this so that he can decide if he is going to move on or not.

It is entirely possible that he will make that decision as he stated he would give it 6 months. He is a wise man not to make a rapid decision, but you are foolish if you think he will be in your life forever without some serious and I mean serious work on your part.

It starts with RADICAL HONESY, is coupled with the policy of joint agreement, POJA, and it means following Harley's four rules for a good marriage. Please read up on this.

You are in withdrawal and so this will be very hard, but I think you do have a time limit and one month is gone. It is up to you to decide if you want to continue being married to a "boring" man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But if you do, you need to start to focus on him, your marriage, yourself, and the damage that has been done.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

dear melody,

thank you for ur honest advice and thoughts.
i just thought i should tell you something about myself - no its not a justification or anything - but thought it would help.

my h and i had been dating for a couple of years before getting married, we then were married for the past 5 years - but in all this time we had never consumated our marriage - i was told by all my h and my family that the problem was with me - i had seen numerous doctors in my home country and they all came back saying i was physically normal but it was probably a mind thing. in all of this my h stood by me and never ever forced me - u see we were both virgins. anyway, we accepted our fate and told ourselves that as long as we had each other and loved each other the physical aspect did not matter to either of us and we remained faithful to each other. then last year i had an opportunity to come to this country for a better life for both of us - although at the end of the day the decision was joint - my h was very keen on coming here - so i moved first and he stayed back to take care of winding up everything in our home country - in the months that he was away - i was terribly lonely and kept telling him to hurry up and come here sooner - but his work kept him there for longer than was expected. during this time i met OM and was shocked to find out that at the age of 31 i could finally have sex - i was shocked and realised that the problem was never with me - that my H had let me take the fall for us not consummating our marriage and that inspite of my repeated telling him to see a doctor he had not - he is shy in these matters and also would not believe that he had a problem. so OM was my first guy and i lost my virginity to him. i dont know why i am saying all these things here and what i am even trying to tell myself here - but i guess it makes it harder for me to know that i gave myself to another man for the first time in my life and cannot even be happy about it. do i need to see a shrink ?
since reading your posts i have felt a bit better. today has been the first day in a month when i have actually constructively used my time at work and did not brood over anything - the day is not over yet - and i am scared to be on my own even for a couple of hours - no not because it will be tempting to call OM but because i will cry and think and think and brood and brood. i have also not spoken with my sister today and i feel better but i miss talking to her - i do not want her to stop loving me.
i did teach my H how to make love to me - at first i was comparing him to my OM - but now i dont anymore. i also am thinking of studying to keep my mind occupied constructively - do u think its a good idea ? w.r.t my h - i am being attentive, and we have in some ways for all practical purposes and to a third party have slipped back into our normal routine (like it was before this disaster)
my h likes kids and i cannot stand them - im scared of the whole process and also of the tremendous responsibility and im not ready (not sure if i ever will be) - and besides i think this is not the time for a baby - but the time for us to mend - am i rite in thinking this ?

thanks again for ur posts

yesterday was a good day - in fact the first one since a month - i forced myself to concentrate on work - and kept myself busy - in the even my H wanted for us to go out wit a group of friends - i didnt want to but thot if it makes him happy i'll go - a couple of hours later i was so bored and inspite of trying to look happy and interested i found myself sulking - so i told my H that i was going home and if he wanted he could hang on - at first he said no lets hang on a couple of hours more but then said ok. so i went home - saw a movie and then my H got back a couple of hours later - i was so exhausted - i promptly went of to sleep.
is it part of the process to feel tired and exhausted and numb and having a body racking with pain ?
i printed out the questionnaire from the MB site and dutifully fille dit out - then i took another form for my H - but he scoffed it off saying it was humbug - so i left it at that - then this morning he joked about one of the questions and i told him that if he did not want to take it seriously then he should not joke about it either. i am not sure if im being hard and selfish with him. but i was pretty crabby since last night (although i must say the day was good - and i actually smiled for the first time in a month)

what do you think ?

yesterday was awful - the whole day passed in a haze - then i met up with my H and we went home together. unfortunately after that we did not see each other for 3 hours - he was busy on his computer and i on the t.v. - i asked him to join me a couple of times and he kind of passed it off so i switched on the t.v.

then 5 minutes before we went to sleep, he asked me what was wrong - so i told him that we needed to talk and that i would appreciate if he filled out the MB questionnaire - so he filled it out and then when we discussed it - he was so sarcastic, judgemental, angry and attitudinal - he agreed that he does not give too much affection, theres hardly any conversation and he rated physical intimacy a number 6. on the other hand he is satisfied with the affection i have for him etc. etc. and says that i can improve just a bit. i was very upset and realise that we cannot move ahead if he is not ready to do somethign about the mising parts in our relationship - he says that he cannot change as a human being and that this is all that he can offer. i want more - i do not think i am being unrealistic - i know im WW but i honestly feel that our marriage has lost all charm, excitement, love and happiness in it - we are together out of habit - but its a habit that he is willing to give up on. he told me that he wanted out in a month if things dont improve and for that to happen he wants to just shut up about the state of our marriage, not talk about it, pretend that alls well and move on (im using his words here) - what do i do ? i want us to work, but then another part of my brain is saying that theres nothing left to save - and that we should call it quits - but i am not sure if i can live without him - i love him and want him in my life - i want us to b happy and in love with each other - and i do not know anymore if I should just shut up and not say anything and continue like he wants us to- or try and beat him on his head explainging to him how important it is for us to talk and make changes in our behaviours, lifestyles etc. if we want this to work. he keeps thinking that i have a back up plan, and i want out - but that is not the case. please help me.