I am continually amazed by betrayed spouses who choose NOT to expose their wayward spouse's affairs to the light of day.

The arguments presented not to expose are just about as myopic as the wayward's arguments to continue an affair.

Talk about fog.

I am adopting a personal MB forum policy that if a BS has chosen not to expose their WS's affair - after all reasonable explanations and attempts to convince them otherwise, and except in extremely extraordinary circumstances - I can no longer help them. I will not spend time trying to help them for they have chosen not to help themselves.

Affair Exposure 101

<small>[ March 04, 2005, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

WAT -

First of all I'ld like to tell you that I admire you tremendously on this board for many reasons, but most of all for your steadfast commitment to helping people who are struggling. You're beliefs are so strong and consistent that they always shine through when you post to someone.

The older I get the more stongly I believe in "truth", not only in saving marriage's but in saving people from the pain and darkness of deception. Any kind of deception hurts, it keeps a person from being able to move in the direction of light. It causes them to doubt their own perceptions and their own sanity. I can think of nothing crueler or scarier than this.

As human beings I believe we have a moral responsibility to help, to uplift to lighten the darkness of our fellow human beings as much as we are able, and this means living in "truth" so that others may live in "truth" as well.

Thank you WAT, for being who you are!

Okay WAT - you brought me out of lurk mode again. You just have that way about you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Here is my side and believe me I do understand what you are saying. When I discovered my H's affair with a co-worker it ended. Unless he is a very good actor and is missing work - they are not seeing each other or contacting each other. He accounts for all time and there are no calls on his cell to her or from her. Granted - they surely could have gotten sneakier about it, but I believe time will tell.

I never told the OW's H because for many months my H told me it never happened and I so desperately wanted to believe him and he was doing nothing at that point to make me believe they were still seeing each other. I doubted myself for a long time. By the time the truth came out about the PA/EA it was six months past and seems to be over.

Now, my H and I are in MC and I contacted the OW to let her know that I knew and was NOT willing to accept this "friendship" if it continued. They both now know that if they choose to continue I will immediately contact her H and I have said that to my H directly and indirectly. Maybe I am still in the FOG, but I am scared that this will affect my recovery at this point. I KNOW he has a right to know, but I don't know if it is my place to expose her at this point. I am truly at a loss as to what the right thing to do is. It is selfish of me, but I just do not know if I am the person to break this mans heart when the affair has already ended. My understanding of exposure is that it is used to END the affair, but what if it is already over?

I know many on this board would disagree with my logic - and believe me I struggle so much with this very issue. Honestly though, how many people do they work with that knew what was going on and never contacted him or I anonymously or something. Other people know of this affair and again I ask myself why I should be the one to expose it now when it appears to be over.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SpouseGuess:
<strong> I KNOW he has a right to know, but I don't know if it is my place to expose her at this point. I am truly at a loss as to what the right thing to do is. It is selfish of me, but I just do not know if I am the person to break this mans heart when the affair has already ended. My understanding of exposure is that it is used to END the affair, but what if it is already over?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Spouseguess, it is the responsibility of whoever KNOWS to tell him. It doesn't matter who tells him, but if you know you should tell the man. His heart won't be broken because you tell him, but because of the affair.

At least if he knows what has happened in his own life, he can DEAL WITH IT, if people cruelly withhold this information from him, he can't deal with it. This is likely to happen again to someone else's H if you don't tell him. If he knows he can at least deal with the problems in his marriage.

wat

Sorry if my request was the "last straw".

Thinking I'm joining you, though, in your new personal policy. The frustration is overwhelming sometimes.

SD

Let me put it another way that will help shed light on this situation, because strangely folks treat adultery differently than any other crime. I do not know why because it makes no sense. Let's take this principle and apply it to embezzlement. [it could be applied to child molestation or any other crime]

Imagine that you found out that your neighbor Joe's, bookkeeper was embezzling money from him. Would it make any sense at all to refuse to tell him with these rationalizations:

1. "I don't want to hurt him"

[it is the CRIME that will hurt him]

2. " It happened a long time ago. "

[and will happen again if he is not warned]

3. "I shouldn't be the one to tell him, his bookkeeper should tell him."

[WHY NOT? perps are not likely to bust themselves, nor can they be trusted to tell the truth.]

Do these rationalizations make any sense? What would be clear to me is that the person who knows is simply a very cold callous person who does not care for others and is rationaizing their callousness.

<small>[ July 22, 2004, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

MelodyLane - I knew I would get a 2x4 with my response. First of all, I'm not a callous person at all so I take offense to that. Most people would describe me as timid, shy, and kind-hearted (almost too much so). Herein lies the problem, how do I tell this man after all of this time has passed? I don't know how he will react (violence) and I fear for my H's job because that is our only income. So tell me what I should do? I respect what your saying, but at this point I wonder if it would also be viewed as a revenge thing by my H and OW. Like I care what she thinks, but I am trying to save what is left of my marriage.

I'm so new to MB that I hesitate to chime in, but I just want to encourage all of the wiser MB posters not to give up on the new BS too quickly.

I understand a bit of your frustration. I was so hesitant to expose for many reasons (I'm sure you've heard them all). After I exposed and saw the effect, I wish I had done it earlier and I want to scream (in a nice way:) at any person on this board who hesitates to expose.

So, please don't give up on the new BS. It was like jumping off the high dive for the first time as a child - it felt scary and went against my instincts - bad analogy, but you get my point - some jump faster than others, some need more encouragement.

Spouseguess, I have no doubt that you are a very nice person, but what you are doing is callous and uncaring. Surely you can see that if you really think it through and apply the same principles to other situations.

That is ok if OW views as "revenge," it doesn't matter what she thinks.

I realize it is a very scary thing to do, but it is always the right thing to do. I would simply gather any evidence that you have and call the man up. You would have to work out the logistics, of course.

I would call him and just give him an overview and tell him if he wants to know more, that you can meet with him or talk more. I would be as sympathetic as possible and maybe even volunteer what you know about MB.

You have been given an opportunity to save your marriage, why not give this man the same opportunity that you had?

Maybe what I really should say is this: I want to tell this man because in my heart I feel that it is the right thing to do for many reasons. He has EVERY right to know - I know this because I am NOT a callous person. Then the scared part of me says: What happens if he tries to get my H fired, or comes after him (which has happened on this very board), or worse yet he comes to my house and confronts my H in front of my 12 year old son who knows nothing of this? I'm not asking you to agree, I'm asking you to understand the fear. Maybe instead of the 2x4 you could provide some advice or insight on how to expose at this point?

Guess we posted at the same time ML. I have been thinking about this very thing for a long time now and it weighs heavy on my conscience. My advice to any new BS is to expose right away for this very reason. It only adds to the burden later if you don't. Thanks ML.

superfluous post.

<small>[ July 22, 2004, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

weaver - thanks for the kind words.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cutenothot:
<strong>So, please don't give up on the new BS. It was like jumping off the high dive for the first time as a child - it felt scary and went against my instincts - bad analogy, but you get my point - some jump faster than others, some need more encouragement. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not a bad analogy at all. I appreciate your point, cute, and we should give new BSs in the throes of their early emotions some time to get grounded. I was referring more to the cases where repeated attempts to convince a BS to expose are repeatedly discounted or rationalized away "because my case is special." Sounds just like WS logic, huh?

Thanks for your good contribution.

WAT

<small>[ July 22, 2004, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Hm...

Being on the receiving end of 2x4 swing arcs many times over the past 30 months...

...I will only speak from my experiences.

In retrospect, even though Mrs Meat found out about the A by herself, it was 4 months after d-day for me. During that time, I agonized over whether I should tell her or not. I still wish that I had told her right after d-day for me, even though she had found out about the first stage of their A several years ago and didn't tell me.

You take the risk, every time you have 2 make this kind of decision, that the OPS could react violently. Not knowing anything about them (other than, perhaps, what the WS is relaying via the OP, which is, as we know, somewhat less than unbiased information). And obviously, if the OPS is prone 2 violence, then someone like a professional should do the informing. But I do believe it should be done.

SpouseGuess: I am in a similar si2ation at this point, 30 months after d-day, where I'm having 2 "watch and wait" 2 see if the "friendship" resumes. For now, my W has agreed 2 NC, and it shows in her actions that she's not in contact and is going through withdrawls. So, I think it would be apparent if contact resumed, even if she didn't tell me about it (and I ac2ally think that she would). THEN, I would do something like you mentioned - I'd send an "exposure letter" 2 RM and his coworkers (he's DV'd now) clearly indicating that I won't put up with the "friendship" any more than I would put up with the A (I already sent an exposure letter 2 him some months back when my W visited his workplace on a field trip, but it was only 2 him).

For now, though, she's sticking 2 NC, so sending an exposure letter now would be inappropriate.

I like 2 give people the chance 2 better themselves of their own volition. It would mean a lot more 2 me if my W made the decision 2 go NC forever. I worry that I'd be on my guard like this forever if I coerced her and she resented that. But there's a very real risk taking that approach, 2. I will hereby acknowledge that there is something 2 the lovebank model (and people that know me know how against the concept of it "draining" I was). Right now, my lovebank is draining, though it's not empty and I KNOW that it can be refilled. But I want us 2 fill each other's $LB WILLINGLY, not just because someone tells us it's the right thing 2 do. The risk, of course, is that one of us won't be willing, or will be just 2 tired 2 care.

I'm pretty tired, but I'm also not so "strung out for love" that I can't find things 2 do for myself or with my family 2 keep my mind occupied. With all the hassle of going through the pain of discovery and personal recovery for 30 months, the farthest thing from my mind right now would be another relationship. 2 much work for ol' 2long. Besides, I'm not finished with this one yet.

-ol' 2long

WAT knows how I feel about this, and I agree with him 100%. It is beyond frustrating to sit by and watch a well meaning BS contribute to the demise of her marriage by hiding it. The longer the affair is kept secret, the longer it can survive, and the longer it survives the less chance that the marriage will ever recover.

The WS and the OP are trying to DESTROY the marriage, and when the BS helps them hide it, she is essentially contributing to the destruction of her marriage. And why? Because she is afraid to make the WS mad. Well, guess what? An angry WS won't be an issue if he is no longer there when the marriage ends.

Affairs are hard enough, but they are much harder when the BS will do nothing to help end the affair. It is frustrating to watch someone contribute to their own demise.

WAT and ML - One thing I would like to make very clear - and I didn't do that - was I now agree with exposing in the beginning. I learned the hard way I guess how much better it would have been. I use my story as an example of the burden it creates later and also to show you guys that sometimes the BS's are in a fog of denial at first and don't follow GOOD advice for many reasons. Please don't stop giving the advice out of frustration though. Would you stop giving your teenage "life tips" because they never follow them? Sometimes people have to learn for themselves, but to stop giving advice because it is frustrating doesn't help. Think of all the people you do help - and use my story as an example of why it is better to do it right away - it saves pain in the long run!

worth a try,

Congrats for establishing your own MBers Boundaries.

Agreed....help those that actually WANT to be helped.

Takes up too much time and energy to "fight" with people who seem to already Know It All and are "Right". (However, if their Plan was '"right" and working....why are they here??) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

The frustration of attempting to convey the same message, yet in a somewhat different package (in a vain attempt to get through the Wall) must be exasperating to say the least.

You've done many, many here a great Service through all your efforts.
IMO Do whatever it is you need to do, in order for you to stay sane and remain here helping even more.
YOUR guidance and advice are necessary.
Keep it up!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Posted by Melody Lane:
Affairs are hard enough, but they are much harder when the BS will do nothing to help end the affair. It is frustrating to watch someone contribute to their own demise.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amen to that Melody... It sure is!

I sense everyones frustration and I'm sure that I'm one of the "frustrating" cases, but please remember your dealing with people who are not thinking clearly.

2long - Thanks for your perspective - I share your pain of the waiting game. Hope things work out for you. As for me, I'm just trying to keep to the survival path as well.

FWIW - not that it matters, I have revised my "policy" to add, "after all reasonable explanations and attempts to convince them otherwise."

This is what I meant all along, but didn't express it well enough.

Hey, it's my policy and I can change it to anything I want!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WAT

15 months on from D-day I'd like also to endorse exposure.

The one qualification I think you have to put on it, is that there MAY be some people who you are better off not telling initially.

For example in my sitch, OM was a friend of mine initially, as were his brother and sister. OM ditched his GF (of 11 years - living together for 9!) when the A started. Within 2 days of d-day (about 4 weeks after A started) I went to OM's GF. To be honest I presumed that she knew and wanted to know why she hadn't told me. In the event she didn't know. I also told OM's brother around this time. The only other people who I told were WW's twin sister and her husband - although during the 4 week crisis pre-d-day I had been in regular discussion with them so it was a gradual revelation I suppose in that one case.
I did not tell OM's sister who I also know as I thought her highly strung.
Gradually over the next few weeks I told some close friends and both her and my immediate families. Over the next couple of months I broadened this to most friends and other relatives etc.

About 2-3 months after d-day I decided to go to OM's mother who i didn't know. However OM was living in her house (having moved out of his GF's house). That led to a loss of friendship with OM's brother and sister who felt that their elderly mother was being needlessly hurt.

Now the kicker - I wish had told everyone, including OM's mother immediately. Yes I may have lost some friends, but I now see that if that had been part of something successfully breaking up the A then they probably would have changed their opinion. If not, big deal I would have saved my marriage. As it is I have neither <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

As has been said elsewhere - the sooner major pressure comes on the A, the more likely it is to break.

I also held off telling my family for 3-4 weeks, just ackowledging that we had some problems. I convinced myself that I didn't want to make recovery any more difficult that it would be already! Now there was something in that - my family would have found it difficult to react to her, but talk about putting the cart before the horse!

You know what else I wish - I wish had gone to WW's workplace and introduced myself and told all of them. I should have told all of the neighbours (even though we aren't that close to any of them). Heighten the shame for your WS.

Summary: Tell EVERYONE who can conceivably have any direct influence on either OM/OW and your WS. What you are doing is exploding the foundations that their 'relationship' depends on.