Originally posted by Broken Vessell:
I would like to ask you some questions if that is ok,

Good. I will answer any question I can understand. Some things have a question mark but appear to be statements.


You wanted to specifically target certain of us who are basically ‘getting on your nerves’ and who you have no time or patience for…

Yes (target). And no, I remain patient.

So are you the ‘appointed’ person to target out new people, suss out if they BS/FWW’s, and if they are the latter, then you ‘scan over’ their posts regularly to see how far they are getting on??

No


If they are not recovering as fast as YOU think they should be, you then it seems you keep ‘hounding’ them and putting in ‘your short sharp and sometimes totally misconception of us. and seem to imply to us as ‘those FWW’s who want to get in a huddle and just talk about the oooo feelings of OM?

I cannot understand if this is a question or a statement. Too confusing to answer.

Why don’t you just name us and post us personally Instead of letting us read what you writing about us? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I wanted you to read what noodle said.

Because you were obviously hurt and you were the BS, does that mean we cant find help for us in our situation.?

No.

Is there a set time limit YOU have for us, and if we don’t heal or stop mentioning OM by then, you ‘write us off as useless cases??

I don't know. How I see you is unimportant. Your marriage is what matters most.

Do you know how much hurt you could have caused some of us when you mentioned about ‘the odds in your opinion were of Believer & RH’s making it the most?

I paid Onlywords a compliment. She deserved it.

I am not sure why you say Believer???

It caused me a few hours of despair when I read that.

Why? because I chose to compliment Onlyword's efforts and not yours? Why does that cause you despair?

Do you have any idea how I was hurt that day?

No.

Do I have NO right to be hurt as a FWW?

Hurting is part and parcel of infidelity.

You have a "right" to any anything on the emotional menu.

Including joy!

Do you not read many posts we have done which have a similar theme that OM got to us emotionally first?

I don't understand if this is a question.

Then it seemed to be a cold and calculated move to further the A on?

Again, your meaning is lost on me here.

You seem to think we are totally insensitive to the pain of OMW’s.

Not "totally insensitive", but certainly the sensitivity intensity seems lukewarm to me.

You don’t know because you only give your ‘comments about us stealing time’ with him from his wife. You do NOT KNOW every story and every situation on here, and there are ALWAYS 2 sides. It is not just about FWW stealing. In my case certainly, I was planned and moved un emotionally months before A, and OM was steeling from OW before me. (this never came to light until after however).

What? Is this an example of you showing your sensitivity to OMW's here?

Yes I have always maintained by guilt in this, but that doesn’t stop me from being in a fog. I am trying to do the right thing for me and my family and H by posting on here, but sometimes It just seems YOU have made a decision that ‘certain kinds’ are NOT WANTED on here!

No question for me to answer.

You are posting what you want to post. No one stopping you.

And, anything I say is strictly my opinion.

Take it or leave it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Those FWW/OW who post ad nauseum about missing the feelings MM gave them .... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I thought this was a FREE DISCUSSION BOARD, where both sides can post in their situation and find help?

Yes. That is what we are doing right now.

Talking and communicating is a major plus in the recovery stage. If you DON’T want to hear the other side of those being helped as FWW’s WHY DO YOU READ IT?

I read it because I want to read it. I don't always like it or agree with it. I prefer to get all levels of interaction. Easy, not so easy.

I have learned how to disagree and not shut down from the person I disagree with.

I can handle your not-so-good opinion of what I had to say. It is fine with me. really.

Why do you read the posts on the JL thread, where RAP and myself & others are trying to find answers to our questions besides reading torn asunder?

The threads are becoming overly long. I am not keeping up. I like to read NCWalkers posts. Always challenging and enlightening. So, depends on what is going on.

I just feel this post is one you have gone too far on. You offer us help in the beginning yet when we are not moving in the direction or timespan you think we should you then just send posts on other threads, about us posting ad nauseaum!

Yes. That is my opinion. You are free to disagree. It's really a wonderful forum.

Why say it behind our backs when we came on noodles thread to read ourselves?

Please explain "behind our backs"....?

Surely it is a good and positive thing that we have found help?

Yes, help is good.

Is everyone APART from FWW’s allowed to share their feelings on MB’s?

I think we covered this.

Do you really want us to find help?

Yes.

If you do, why do you run as down so much in the way we are trying to communicate and learn? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I believe you meant "run us down"... So I will answer assuming that is a typo...

Please explain "run us down". I believe your perception of "run us down" is quite different than mine.

I do not feel I am running you down.

I am pushing. I am prodding. I am annoying. So what? Marriage recovery is the real issue, not my personality. I don't want you to fall over, because you cannot be a good wife if you do. I want you to recover.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have tried to convey to these FWW/OW that this MM is another woman's husband.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To be honest I find your way of posting very confusing. It is more of a ‘slam down hard and fast’ on the FWW’s here on MB’s when they don’t respond to you.

You have never investigated or asked if there was even the slightest possibility that any of us FWW’s were manipulated first? You have no idea of what is ‘not being’ shared on the forum because people would be too afraid to, which is ridiculous when this is supposed to be a place where everyone can find help.

Yes. I have no idea what people are *not* saying on this forum. Nor do I care. Fear of what? Of responses that are not soft and tender, but are biting and challenging?

I am not responsible for other people's fears.

Any other details FWW’s could post would just in your eyes make us seem that we are now having a pity party or a ‘blame it all on the OM thing)

How would embelishing your posts with those details help YOU recover YOUR marriage? Help YOU understand your husband's hurt? Help YOU summons empathy for OMW?

I am NOT looking for a pity party, NOR do I believe others are either. We just want to move on. We need people there for good days and bad days (same as everyone else).

Yes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They need to read your words.... and understand the consequences of their choices reach beyond the tip of their own noses.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here you go again pep. Slamming down on people.

Well.... am I wrong? Don't you need to understand the consequences that reach beyond the tip of your nose? Instead of commenting on Pep's motives, why did you not choose to comment on Noodles beautiful thoughts?

Why don’t you keep trying to help those who you know you can personally, and leave the rest of us to our fate (as you seem to believe we have one – and not much of a one unless we score on your ‘list’.

I don't understand.... are you telling me who to post to? I mean, I can understand if you say to me:

~Please do not post to me Pep. I don't like what you have to say~

And I will say "Done "

But, until you say that, I will continue to post to whom I choose. Including yourself. If you think my posts violate the board rules, report them.


I don’t often write cross posts, but I have kept quiet all this time, but why should I still be made guilty when I am also being told I am forgiven?

I don't make you guilty BV. I do not. It is not for me to forgive you BV. It is not. You have done nothing wrong to me. Nor I to you.

We are having an adult discussion. Opinions expressed. Some hard, some soft.

What could be distasteful about increasing your empathy towards Noodles, and other betrayed spouses on MB?


Why when I keep saying I am trying to move on, should I find a post which says ‘the odds are not on me, or RAP/NC??) Don’t you realize how that can affect us?

And, why would I not compliment Onlywords?

Her efforts are really fantastic.

I was hoping it might affect you in this way.... increase your effort to actually love your husband the way he deserves to be loved.

I know you can help people and many say they are helped. You have sent me some good positive posts which I do appreciate.

Cool

I just find this recent post you did on noodles thread quite ‘out of line’ really and pre-judging people and their motives when infact you don’t know what they may be going through.

I was hoping you could look at Noodle's post , and see what she is going through. I was hoping it might inspire you to make love to your husband with all that passion you hold inside of you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

How about that Noodle? Quite a writer, isn't she?

BV.... I think this was one of the most firery posts you've written! Good for you. it took guts! I appreciate guts!

Pep

<small>[ July 24, 2004, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Zowee! Look at all these posts... [looks around and let's out a low whistle] I really didn't think that people would take my drivel so seriously and so much to heart.

Just wanted to quickly clarify for Recovering H..my disagreement was about the general suggestion that intelligence would keep a person from seeking revenge. It was mostly tongue in cheek..thus the Hannibal Lector reference.

Now onto the meat for chewing. I'm sort of suprised that so many have been reading my thoughts and seeing despair. From my end it has been just the opposite. After taking many insightful posts into consideration ..I agree with you all, including those of you who don't agree with each other. Now, before I declare my campaign for NATO employment, I'd like to take a few moments to explain. Let's begin at the beginning of this journey..the real one began only a few months ago..prior to that we were slogging along in a state of living death that absolutely had to come to an end. We couldn't tolerate the stink. We began counsel and one of the first things that was dealt with was that I was still so far into survival mode that I was not myself aware of my own feelings. My counselor asked how I felt about what had happenned and my honest reply was "I don't know". I had to shut down in order to function on a day to day basis. Unfortunately in the military there are no sick days. We had zero opportunity to even clear the air before it was back to life as usual. Once I was able to reconnect my circuits [it went pretty quickly once it was pointed out..don't know how I managed not to notice] war quickly broke out. Not war between my husband and I, but an internal civil war between my giver and my taker. They never liked each other much, and have territorial disputes to this day. That's what brings us to my post. Something has been coming to a head. Something big. It makes me angry, it makes me fearfull..it makes me angry that I'm fearfull...and that something is the military lifestyle with regard to my needs as I now understand them. I'm not sure that I can tolerate another enlistment..and I'm certain that I don't want to. The trouble is that my husband loves his job, and if he did leave it for my benefit he would resent it forever even if he didn't want to. The nights and weeks and months away are simply too much though. I admit [through gritted teeth] that I *need* him to be here with me. I need his positive input every day. I didn't need it before, but I definately do now. So aside from how pathetic this sounds..it's the truth as I know it and I'll shout it from the rooftops before I'll go without.

Having said that...the idea of him resenting me for my need of more stability at the expense of his job is too cruel an irony not to make me taste bile and smell blood. This is where the emotional rollercoaster takes off. How dare he resent my needs..yada yada..sacrificed even my dignity...etc...and it goes even deeper. When he broke his vows, he also broke an agreement with me that frankly left me with my a$$ hanging out in the wind. When we decided to have children, we agreed to focus on making his position strong, because to do otherwise seemed counter productive. We weren't willing to send the children to daycare, we weren't willing to go on state aid with regard to health insurance etc..and I was the obvious choice to take care of things at home. This was a sacrifice for us both and one of our first unwitting uses of POJA [although retrospectively I now think that it was an error in judgement, and would choose differently..meh, you have to make decisions with the information you have at the time] So when he broke our marriage, had I chosen to leave..I would have been unemployed, uninsured, out of the work force for years, away from all friends and family who might have helped..and in a position where I would have been forced to ask for help. I might even not have been granted custody as even I had to admit my situation looked grim. He on the other hand had a stable job with good potential, a home, insurance..etc..etc.. We had done our job too well..the plan was to put him in a position of strength, and there he was. What was overlooked was that all of my sacrifices were supposed to have a payoff as well..only a delayed one. So by cheating, not only did he destroy me personally on an emotional level..he also blew up my city, with regard for the future. Insert "how dare you leave me with nothing when I have sacrifed my youth to put you in a good position?!" Ah well..the follies of enterring into a buisiness arrangement in which you pay your half first..if the other party defaults and declares bankrupcy, you are left with no option but to think that lack of debtors prison might not have been one of the founding fathers very best ideas.

So that leaves me sitting at my desk on the eve of my post. My needs have changed..the plan has not. There will be controversy and I need to know where I really stand. In order to do that I needed to allow my emotions to pour out [preferably on paper] so that I could examine them and their root causes. What I now see looking back is pretty simple. What my husband has done has indeed changed the paradigm of our marriage [shout out to the poster who nailed that one, but my mouse is broken so I can't go back and look without losing my train of thought]. I have made a decision to remain fully engaged in this marriage against all logic and I am very uncomfortable with this. I usually..well, more like never make a decision based on how I feel. I accept that he is unable to offer retribution for his crime. However! I can not tolerate being offered less than I have given. I know that asking someone to make an abrupt career change is asking a lot, especially when you really love the field you are in, but I need him to acknowledge that what he has done has cost a lot. He has been given more than he has given so a refusal or a reluctance to meet my need begs answer to the question once again..of what value am I to you? Some sort of negotiation is in order. It saddens me though. To be so far into a marriage and still have *deal breaker* situations. I hate having to take things in a moment to moment sort of way. I suppose it was always true, but it hits home squarely now that no matter our affection or enjoyment of each other..we may only be one moment away from that decision that we can not reconcile. If my needs will only be grudgingly met I must conclude that to invest still more of my life with this man is foolishness. So my hopes dangle by a thread..the urge to blurt out PAY ATTENTION>>THIS IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT!! DO NOT MAKE AN ERROR IN JUDGEMENT BY DISSAPPOINTING ME IN THIS DECISION!!

Now that I have had the benefit of looking at my feelings on record, and also have had the benefit of having others look at them and respond..I'm getting down off the cross in case anyone else needs the wood. Thank you all so much for responding..although I couldn't address each and every response I did read them all several times and every single one of them has cast light onto the fragments of my thoughts and has allowed me to see the next few steps on my path..again, Thank you ---Noodle

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 06:11 AM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>

Dear Noodle,

Glad to hear you are in a more positive mood now. It will go up and down, I know, but when it stays down this could be dangerous.

I'd like to share a thought I had. I'm very much a "worrier" myself. My head then feels like a giant pinball machine where the thoughts go round and round, bouncing against all obstacles while I try to manage a safe ride. While this can be fun in real life - when I worry I just get tired and frustrated.

Imagine the ball flying out of the machine. It floats in the air. No gravity, it is carried by a higher force. I give up. I surrender. I can't make any sense of it so I let go. The obstacles are gone. Now the ball will take it's natural course and take me places I never thought I would go. Solutions appear that I would never have thought of when I was limited to my pinball machine.

Instead of feeling alone and abandoned (because I was too stubborn and scared to leave the safety of my pinball machine) I know feel cared for and taken care of.

This is not science fiction or a vision induced by drugs. It's what happens when I surrender and give my problems into Gods' hands and ask him - tell me what to do. Show me what to do. Give me the strength to accept the things I cannot change. Give me the wisdom to make the changes I have to make.

We can get so deeply entangled in our fears that we cannot believe it will ever be possible to relax and experience this grace.

Worrying is like saying "Sorry God/higher forces, I don't trust you, bad things have happened in my life so I'll handle this myself because you made a mess of it, if you even exist.". We keep thinking that our limited resources and intelligence will be able to solve this mess. The pinball of our thoughts bounces in our heads until we have a headache and/or until we have depleted our energy so much that we are in a depression.

The things that happen when I give my problems into God's hands have sometimes been so instant and dramatic they made my jaw drop. What I had to do was bow my head (that pinball machine).

Hang on in there dear Noodle!
Hugs, Brownhair

<small>[ July 25, 2004, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: brownhair ]</small>

I HATE MYSELF
I HATE WHAT I HAVE DONE
I DON’T DESERVE MY H
I DON’T DESERVE FRIENDS
I CAN’T COPE WITH GOING TO CHURCH
I WILL NEVER FORGIVE MYSELF.


Can you please explain, why its OK for you to feel these emotions but its not OK for anyone else to feel theirs? As a BS I have felt all of them.(bar church)

I dont think their is a BS out there that hasn'tfelt any of the above...got that corner covered hun...think again...we all in the end have to look at ourselves.

Spit your dummy...cry foul play..its all OK

but... when you start denying others their rights to testify their own pain ,their own feelings you in yourself deny the right to be listened too.

self absorption...ulgy phrase....ain't it?

Max

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>

Originally posted by noodle:

t an internal civil war between my giver and my taker. They never liked each other much, and have territorial disputes to this day.

Yes. Good insight. Also recognize that some of the positions your "taker" holds serve to protect you, and are not necessarily hostile to a happy marriage environment.

I'm not sure that I can tolerate another enlistment..and I'm certain that I don't want to.

Speaking your boundaries aloud is good.

The trouble is that my husband loves his job, and if he did leave it for my benefit he would resent it forever even if he didn't want to.

You cannot say what your husband would feel "forever".

Your husband has to face reality and make decisions based on his priorities.

If he puts his career above his family, he has mal-alligned his loyalties.

Many people prioritize like this

1. God
2. Family
3. Self
4. Everyone else

I need his positive input every day. I didn't need it before, but I definately do now. So aside from how pathetic this sounds..it's the truth as I know it and I'll shout it from the rooftops before I'll go without.

Funny tho, if your H recognizes this deep need of yours for HIM and his support.... this is a HUGE love bank deposit for most men!

Having said that...the idea of him resenting me for my need of more stability at the expense of his job is too cruel an irony not to make me taste bile and smell blood.

If he resents you (wife) for needing him (husband) his priorities are screwed up.

I don't think the word "resent" has come from your H's mouth, but from YOURS! I think you might be projecting your fears onto him!

So when he broke our marriage, had I chosen to leave..I would have been unemployed, uninsured, out of the work force for years, away from all friends and family who might have helped..and in a position where I would have been forced to ask for help.

There is nothing wrong with asking for help. Or do you fear asking for or needing help?

So by cheating, not only did he destroy me personally on an emotional level..he also blew up my city, with regard for the future.

This is a common thinking error to nearly all betrayed spouses who have been married for years.... the shared vison for the future was destroyed by the infidelity....

Your thoughts here are NOT unique because you are a military family.... Just so you know.

Insert "how dare you leave me with nothing when I have sacrifed my youth to put you in a good position?!" Ah well..the follies of enterring into a buisiness arrangement in which you pay your half first..if the other party defaults and declares bankrupcy, you are left with no option but to think that lack of debtors prison might not have been one of the founding fathers very best ideas.

Have you seen the movie "Waiting To Exhail"?

One of the lines from the film was

"I did not have a Plan B.... I thought I would never need a Plan B"

She's not refering to MB Plan B of course, but to the fact that she'd invested all her monies into a business, and her cheating husband was stealing her business from her , leaving her financial butt exposed to incliment weather!


What my husband has done has indeed changed the paradigm of our marriage [shout out to the poster who nailed that one, but my mouse is broken so I can't go back and look without losing my train of thought].

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

However! I can not tolerate being offered less than I have given. I know that asking someone to make an abrupt career change is asking a lot, especially when you really love the field you are in, but I need him to acknowledge that what he has done has cost a lot.

It's good you've worked this out in your mind as to what the actual dilemma is.

He has been given more than he has given so a refusal or a reluctance to meet my need begs answer to the question once again..of what value am I to you?

But, offer this as a jointly-solved dilemma. Work on solving this with your husband.

Some sort of negotiation is in order. It saddens me though. To be so far into a marriage and still have *deal breaker* situations.

Well.... this is life. There always will be deal breakers. I am sure your H has his deal breakers too .... but they have not yet been called into active duty.

I hate having to take things in a moment to moment sort of way. I suppose it was always true, but it hits home squarely now that no matter our affection or enjoyment of each other..we may only be one moment away from that decision that we can not reconcile.

Life is moment to moment.... irregardless of intricate planning.

If my needs will only be grudgingly met I must conclude that to invest still more of my life with this man is foolishness. So my hopes dangle by a thread..the urge to blurt out PAY ATTENTION>>THIS IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT!! DO NOT MAKE AN ERROR IN JUDGEMENT BY DISSAPPOINTING ME IN THIS DECISION!!

HA!

I agree, don't blurt this one out!

Re-frame this into a win-win senario as best you can.

Baby talk ..... names? Due date?

Pep

BV

I love my job.

and

You deny your own husband those feelings.

want me to say it again?

You deny your own husband those feelings.


Max

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Broken Vessell:

If I remember correctly, you were quite down on Pep on the Moving Forward thread not so long ago in this way, because she had an opinion regarding RAP.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I request to be left out of this discussion.

Pep

me too.

I like pep. bugger she's married...and Ima girl.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by madmax:
<strong> me too.

I like pep. bugger she's married...and Ima girl. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Bwaaaaaahaaaaaaaa

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>

Noodle? Where are you?
I can't find you among all these threadjackers!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

BV,

I am sure we ALL are glad you are trying to resolve your problems with Mr. BV. However, if that is so, why are you always calling out to JL? JL is a VERY good man who tries to help most people crying out for help. After a while, your looking for help seems to be a constant "crying in your beer."

I don't think any of the posts to you are ment to hurt you. We have a thing called tough love here in the States. The idea is to try to make people understand what they can't, or won't, understand. That is what Pep and others are trying to do with you. Make you realize that you have Mr. BV there with you. He is your best resource, use it.

It seems to be time for you to have NC with the rest of us and cling to Mr. BV. We are certin he will be glad to love you, honor you, and help you. Then when you have all your ducks in order, post back and tell us how well the two of you are doing. May we all be invited to your next restatement of your vows?

Dear all,

Ok. You have won.

Bye

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You have never investigated or asked if there was even the slightest possibility that any of us FWW’s were manipulated first?


I realize that I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer....and that I am more often ignored on this site than acknowledged (that's what I get for being outspoken)...

BUT this one is going to need to be explained to me cause I am clueless about it.

How does a MARRIED woman get manipulated by another man into an affair? She KNOWS that she is married...even if the OM doesn't know.

She can be manipulated by her H. I can see that happening. When it's done by another man, why is it supposed to make the sin of adultery more understandable to others??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I'm not standing in judgement...I really am not. I simply don't understand that concept.

If the woman is single...and the man is married...and he doesn't tell her or lies about it...THAT is being manipulated into a relationship with him. She can even think that it is an honorable relationship when it isn't. She KNOWS that it isn't when SHE is married.


I just don't see how it happens...and why it is used as an excuse for the behavior. Does he manipulate a married woman into an affair...with the promise of marriage if she leaves her H...all the while not planning on following through? Is that manipulation? Would that make it better?

The WS is manipulated into unacceptable behavior? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> When you manipulate a person you do it in order to get something from them. What is a married woman supposed to give an OM?

You cannot claim manipulation when you are married...IMHO. The use of the word "manipulate" is used to absolve one of any guilt...as in "through no choice of my own". It is ALWAYS a choice when you step outside the bounds of marriage in an affair. Because, there is ALWAYS a choice to NOT do it.

I can understand if no one wants to answer me...it might cause a flame war the likes that no one has ever seen.

committed

committed,

I posted to you on the other thread.

It is a very valid question. Have to go out with family now.

Hope to join the (what did you call it) flame war soon?

RAP

I have been following this thread and identify so much with the torture that exists in the mind of a BS. I could never express it the way that you people have and it has been of some relief to see others put my feelings into words. This site, is the only place that I don’t feel alone and I fear I am becoming addicted to it! If I may, I would like to tell cyberland where I am right now.

The latest discovery of renewed contact 3 weeks ago (many since Christmas) has completely floored me. I decided at that moment, that I cannot and will not go on. A 2nd and I believe real NC letter was sent, which offered some relief, but it all seems too little, too late.

My H is reading ‘Torn Asunder’. He understands the A was his responsibility. He knows it was wrong. He also knows his personal recovery is the essential first step and begins IC this week. He expects nothing of me and promises me nothing. He doesn’t even have a goal, i.e. to save our marriage.

After months of doing what I must with strength and determination, I now seem to have shut down completely. I feel I have nothing more to give and don’t even have the will to. I think about the A and everything related to it, every waking moment. The grief and loss wash over me continually. The betrayal twists and turns inside me. I feel that I am imprisoned in this marriage with my worst enemy and yet I ache for the man that I married and the safety of his arms.

I have this overwhelming desire to be alone. I don’t want to see or speak to anyone. I don’t want to leave the house. I just want to be left in peace to visit these dark places in my heart, in the hope I can emerge free of them. My thoughts go back to the beginning of all this, as if for the first time. I imagine myself going back in time and comforting that poor girl who was so shocked, stunned and alone. I have also been fantasizing and making up fairytales with me as the princess. (Something I always did in my youth, am I going crazy?) My focus has been on H for so long and suddenly it is all on me. I’m locked in my own mind and real life feels like an unwelcome intrusion. Preoccupied with selfish misery?

I just wondered if any of you can tell me if this is normal? Is this wallowing or processing? This slump is consuming me and I have no desire to lift myself out of it. I don’t feel ready to roll up my sleeves and live again. Should I be worried? Am I doing wrong? Is this the biggest self pity part of all time? Surviving is past and it now feels time to face all that’s happened. The aftershocks are crippling me.

Hope this isn’t a threadjack.

Noodle,

I am a FWW...Recovering H's wife. I have quoted some of the things you said in one of your posts. The reason is....I had thought and felt these same things BEFORE I had an affair. He did not have to have an affair for me to feel the way I felt. And I have to assume that it was truly faulty thinking on my part.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I admit [through gritted teeth] that I *need* him to be here with me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What was overlooked was that all of my sacrifices were supposed to have a payoff as well..only a delayed one. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">[QUOTEWhat I now see looking back is pretty simple. What my husband has done has indeed changed the paradigm of our marriage [/QUOTE]
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can not tolerate being offered less than I have given. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He has been given more than he has given so a refusal or a reluctance to meet my need begs answer to the question once again..of what value am I to you? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If my needs will only be grudgingly met I must conclude that to invest still more of my life with this man is foolishness. So my hopes dangle by a thread..the urge to blurt out PAY ATTENTION>>THIS IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT!! DO NOT MAKE AN ERROR IN JUDGEMENT BY DISSAPPOINTING ME IN THIS DECISION!!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just something to think about.

Julie