He prides himself on being a good guy, that is why I am usually to blame for driving him into A. I think he would be devestated and very angry at me if I told his family. May cause the end of his trust in me.
H and OW do not work in the same building but in a similar area. So they can easily find an excuse to contact regarding work if they choose to.
S

Guys its midnight in Australia so I'll try and get some sleep and check in inthe morning. Looking forward to lots more advice and harsh truths.
s

<small>[ July 23, 2004, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: arty ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by arty:
<strong> He prides himself on being a good guy, that is why I am usually to blame for driving him into A. I think he would be devestated and very angry at me if I told his family. May cause the end of his trust in me.
S </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why would he be mad if there is nothing wrong with the affair?

Arty, if you don't expose it, its much less likely to end. The affair cannot survive long when exposed to the light of day. It causes great conflict between them and embarrasses them.

You should be doing everything in your power to end the affair and this is not a step you can afford to skip.

And yes, he will be angry, but that's ok. He will get over it, however, your marriage will NOT get over a prolonged affair because you were afraid to do everything in your power to stop it.

You should not help him hide his affair, arty. He and the OW are trying to DESTROY your marriage and you only HELP THEM if you help them keep their secret.

There is nothing untrustworthy about exposing his affair. He is the one who is acting trustworthy.

I know you are right that it would be harder for him if all around him knew what he was up to. But I feel as if I am being as hurtful as he is. How will airing our dirty washing help us in the long run. Most of our friends can't look him in the eyes as it is. And now he says it is no A since there is no physical contact.
I want to warn the kids that it may not be pretty when he get home on Monday night. They have already had so many shock lies and dissapointments from him I want them to be able to trust me. H says wait till we talk, why upset them unduely. I suppose he is hoping Iet him back home and in a way so am I.

My conditions to allow him to return;
1. Absolutely NC with OW and and an understanding why I think it is impotrant and the ramification if that is broken (separation)
2. Letter to OW re NC
3. Contract with me re NC signed and witnesses
4. Commitment to spending say an hour a day reading through concepts etc on this sight so as to build a better M in the future.
What do you think? Does that sound fair and reasonable? Anything to add/ommit? Be critical I really need tough love.
S

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by arty:
<strong> I know you are right that it would be harder for him if all around him knew what he was up to. But I feel as if I am being as hurtful as he is. How will airing our dirty washing help us in the long run.S </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">arty, exposure is SUPPOSED to make it harder for him, harder for him to carry on the affair. The idea here is to do everything to END THE AFFAIR, after all. How do you rationalize that EXPOSING bad behavior is the same as DOING bad behavior? I am not following your logic here. Exposing the affair is SUPPOSED to hurt the affair. That is a good thing, isn't it? If it helps end the affair, I would call it very good.

You shouldn't help them hide the affair. You are only contributing to YOUR OWN DEMISE if you help them hide their affair.

I wouldn't put any conditions on his return at this point. He just might call your bluff after all the lovebusting you have been doing. Wait until you have some leverage and have been in Plan A for a while. As it is now you have no leverage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want to warn the kids that it may not be pretty when he get home on Monday night</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is this about? A planned lovebuster?

Melodylane,
I'm not sure letting his Mum know will make it harder for the A, I think it may make it more open and he may face a new reality.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I wouldn't put any conditions on his return at this point. He just might call your bluff after all the lovebusting you have been doing. Wait until you have some leverage and have been in Plan A for a while. As it is now you have no leverage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In theory that sound OK but letting him back home may be like allowing to continue as he has- not letting go of either of us. I am not sure I have it in me not to LB when I know he is in contact with OW. Maybe I can LB less with less contact.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I want to warn the kids that it may not be pretty when he get home on Monday night
What is this about? A planned lovebuster? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you've taken my comment wrongly. I don't want to fight or lose it with him but if there is a chance he will be leaving because I have asked him to shouldn't I give them a heads up?
I only want to find a way to restore my sense of self and my M. I really believe allowing him to continue contact with OW would not lead to any reasonable future. The question is how I make him see how serious I am and that this is not negotiable if he wants a life with me.
S

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by arty:
<strong>I really believe allowing him to continue contact with OW would not lead to any reasonable future. The question is how I make him see how serious I am and that this is not negotiable if he wants a life with me.
S </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ok, Arty, if it were as simple as that, we wouldn't all be here. Why don't you just tell him that you won't "ALLOW" him to have an affair anymore. See how far that gets you.

ok, I have garnered some more patience and will take one more stab at this. I am not ready to give up on you yet!

Arty, you are getting ready to make a dreadful mistake that could very well result in the end of your marriage. You came here for help but don't seem to be listening. I will just remind you that it was *YOU* who helped get your marriage into this mess so you are the least qualified person here to get yourself out.

On the other hand, Marriage Builders has a proven track record of success in salvaging marriages. In comparison, your track record is NIL.

Ok, with that out of the way, let me explain what is going on here. Your H has gone outside of your marriage because your marriage is in big trouble. He is not happy there or this probably wouldn't have happened. You need to understand that you have probably lost your princess status long ago and have very little leverage.

And since your H is unhappy in the marriage, you have no leverage with which to threaten him to do anything. See, you are forcing him to make a choice. Here are his choices:

A. Wife, with whom he is unhappy and who treats him disrespectfully, threatens, demands and has angry outbursts - is threatening to kick him out of his home unless he conforms. A future with her will be full of unhappiness now magnified by years of recriminations for the affair

B. OW, who adores him and treats him like a king and would gladly welcome him into her comforting arms

Which one will he choose, Arty?

I can tell you which one MOST WS' choose when given the option. See, when you throw him out, you are throwing him into the arms of the OW. Most WS' are RELIEVED to be rid of the lovebusting spouse. RELIEVED, Arty.

Not only that, but you DRAMATICALLY increase your chances of divorce when seperated and all but ENSURE that he stays in contact with the OW. Only now he can do it without interference from you, taking the affair to a new level. You might not get him back, Arty.

Please think about what I have told you, Arty, because I really am trying to help you. However, no one can be helped against their will.

<small>[ July 24, 2004, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Melodylane,
Thanks for not giving up on me.
H called yesterday to say will write letter of NC to OW and wants to work at M.
Yes, I have understood that it is in my best interest to let him back in and treat him like a king as she has done. But it is not true that I have no leverage; we have a history and 3 beautiful children that we both want to be involved with.
I wrote him a letter explaining how I feel, my not blaming him for A and wanting to build a better us. So, moving forward I think. Any ideas what should NC letter should include?
S