Hey all, hope everyone is doing ok today.

My marriage is so screwed up. My WIFE is screwed up. I keep wanting to give up then she comes back and tells me things. She is a very confused little girl. She says some harsh stuff to me. Shes not in love with me, there is no connection, blah blah blah. She comes back and tells me that she was only pushing me away cuz she is scared. She says she needs me and nobody has ever loved her like I do.

I know she does love me and is not in love with me right now. She wants to be in love with me.. She has an insane way of showing it, having sex with another guy!

We have been together for 7 years. I have come to a realization that we r not best friends and I feel horrible. I remember so many times that I was bad to her, even our wedding. Other people have been more important. Im ashamed at myself for how I have been towards her, and I even feel like her cheating on me has been a cry for help cuz she doesnt get what she needs from me.

I dont know if I have really explained my situation yet, but here it is.

My wife and I r both 25 yrs old. We have 2 kids, a 7 yr old and a 1 yr old. The 7 yr old isnt mine, but I have been with her since she was 9 months so I am dad.

The wife has been neglected and unloved most of her life. Her mom would leave her at home alone when she very young. She had an abusive stepdad, and an alcoholic. She never knew her real dad. Her parents sent her to foster care cuz they were too selfish to take care of her. My wife also thinks she was sexually abused, but she doesnt remember anything. She just has weird feelings sometimes. Bottom line..she has some major issues.


After 4 years of our relationship and our marriage, my wife told me that she had cheated on me over time. She told me about 4 times. Three of them were early in the relationship, and 1 was a couple of months before she told me. She went to vegas to see my sister, and she cheated while she was there after she got in a fight with my sister about whatever.

Me being a complete idiot, I took her back. She told me that she loved me and would never do anything again. Wrong Answer!

This is where Jerry Springer comes in...

A couple of months later, she cheated again...With my brother. I couldnt f**cking believe it. I cant even explain why we got back together. I always want to believe her. Regardless some time later, we were back together. She even screwed around with my bro on our 1st wedding anniversary. UNREAL! Then that night we went to dinner and she loves me more than anything. I dont understand anything anymore.

Anyway a couple of months go by and she is pregnant with our little guy. A couple of years go by and here we r, and I found out a few weeks ago she is seeing some guy that she works with. It is only sex she says. She says she has mental issues and does selfdestructive things constantly. She needs God in her life. I make her happy, but it is hard when she is never happy by herself.

Last week she wanted me back. I came back and things were ok for a few days. We fought about these issues everyday, but it wasnt that bad. Then after a few days, it doesnt feel right, our relationship. Then she screws him again. WTF! And she wants to be in love with me???

I cant think of anyone else that would put up with as much bull as I have. My older brother(the good one) refers to me as Jesus. I dont know about that. Maybe Beavis.

Through all of this I still really love her. I feel like she does need me. I dont want to throw her away like her family has. I also feel like I really havent given her what she has needed and it has made it worse. We would go on trips and not talk. We go see family and I would leave her and go with the guys. On our wedding day, I was more concerned about everyone else except for her. I feel like such an [censored].

We really havent been close best friends. I feel so bad for how I have been. We have both been so selfish thru the entire relationship.

I just moved back home yesterday. We have been talking alot, and we r going to counseling on Thursdays. I have decided to stop talking about all of the affairs, I just want to get along with her and be friends. She doesnt say I love u anymore, so I have stopped as well. We r still somewhat affectionate. It is all still new and uncomfortable. I think in a way I am getting numb to the cheating.

Is this what it might have taken to get us close and become real friends? She knows she needs counseling on her own to get the demons out. I am able to forgive, but I dont have much left.

What is really going on here? I just feel so bad for what I have done and she has done. Is there any way this can work? I have never really paid attention to her emotional needs.

Any advice or comments would be great...
No bashing on how stupid I am tho please.
I already know..

You are certainly in a quandry, by what you have described.

Have you considered agreeing to joint counseling with marriage counselor? It may be the most expeditious way to identify what needs she might need fulfilled by you and to give her an opportunity to internalize or realize what her behavior is doing to the relationship. Her romantic encounters sound like something much more than simply an overactive sex drive. But if she is simply immoral to the core, then there isn't much that will make her easy to keep in a marriage relationship, absent a 180 degree change in her heart.

If the latter is true and there is no true desire for and success at changing, the quest for a good marriage does not appear to have a probability for success.

I wish you the best.

The counseling is marriage counseling. He has suggested counseling alone as well. What I understand is that she has been getting her needs met by other people cuz I havent given it to her. Friendship, compatability. She then has sex with them, and feels bad afterward. But she knows what she is doing. I dont really know what to think sometimes. I know I havent given her her most important emotional need throughout the relationship. I think she thinks we r hopeless when she is doing these things.

That is troubling for you, I am sure.

Do either of you have any religious backgrounds? I am curious whether your wife has any other basis for why these outside friendships and intimate encounters are wrong. That is, is it wrong just because you are married? If she has no other basis, she really may not have a strong moral basis for why she is doing wrong.

Has the marriage counseling been opening up both of you not only to what needs have not been met but also to how to meet them?

There will certainly need to be a firm commitment from both of you to focus on each other. Have you read the Harley books, primarily His Needs, Her Needs? They can be helpful.

The gauge that I would suggest is how willing are both of you to commit to a course of making the marriage work.

I can imagine the tenuousness of the situation, but keep heart.

<small>[ July 25, 2004, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: Guidance ]</small>

Im sorry to say it, but I havent had faith in anything the past 15 years up until recently. I was brought up in a religious family(catholic), but after my father died, everything changed. He passed in 1989 and I have gone to church only once since then. Over the years I really havent believed in anything. I have wondered how certain things could happen if there was a God. Some months ago, I changed my outlook on life and have had faith and wanted to believe.

My wife on the other hand has believed the whole time. We would argue about certain things. I feel like she uses faith as a scapegoat tho. She says things like God has forgiven me so its ok. And she continues her path of destruction.

Its kind of funny how someone so holy like herself can continue to do bad things and hurt people. I, on the other hand, havent had faith but havent gone out of my way to hurt people. Im not perfect, dont get me wrong. But I have morals and values. I have never cheated. Dont want to. There are things to change, and I know that I will. I dont know if she can tho.

She did say yesterday that she hasnt really talked and listened to God. She hasnt tried. She has allowed this destruction and it seems like she is ready to get thru it. She has said this before tho so I really dont know what to think ever.

Your wife, while professing her faith, has not demonstrated that she actually believes what she is professing. She may not be taking her faith seriously--especially, if she is falling back on her believe that God is forgiving her for what she is doing.

It goes without saying, but has to be said nonetheless, that God doesn't forgive someone who doesn't have a truly repentent heart. Your wife clearly isn't serious about changing her ways, if she hasn't been diligent in cutting out the adulterous behavior. It underscores why she has not taken marriage vows seriously.

That said, she would surely have the capacity to change. That can't happen though until she gets serious. Unless she wants the marriage to work with her whole heart, there is little opporunity for success. To date, she has not been ready to do so, according to your posting.

Do you know of anything that you can do to make her want to be true to you and to this marriage? You may have to cut your losses.

The only thing I have to go by is her realizing that she has major issues. She knows she is not happy and that she is hurting herself and me. She is getting to the core of certain issues, and actually wants to get help thru counseling. She knows how I feel about her, that I care more than ANYONE. She needs to start caring about herself. I dont know if she is strong enough tho. She hasnt shown it yet. She is gonna lose me forever is she doesnt get it together now. As far as making her want to stay true to me, I think being a better friend and becoming closer with her and talking alot would help.

<small>[ July 25, 2004, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: daddypop ]</small>

If you still love your W, and you still want to be married to her, then you can save your M.

I'm no psychologist, but I think you might be kind of a "daddypop" to your wife as well as your children. You may serve as a father figure to her, and this might contribute to the distance between you.

Your WW needs serious, serious help. She has learned incredibly destructive habits for satisfying her need for love, and the two of you need to figure out how you can satisfy those needs, and how she can learn to look only to you to do it. Her problems are deep and old and will be hard to change. She should absolutely be in individual counseling, but the counselor should be chosen very, very carefully.

GC

^^bump for daddypop^^

^^nother bump^^

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=009539

As you can tell I have dealt with something similar to what you and your wife are going through.

First things first. Somehow she has to face her past and come to terms with it. I strongly believe there is some major abuse in her past and those "weird" feelings are trails to the real abuse she has burried deep in her soul.

If professional counseling or therapy is not an option then I suggest you get a copy of The Sexual Healing Journey (you can get off the internet from Books A Million or other book etailers) Its a great book written both for the victim of abuse and their partner...heck I would get the book even if you get into therapy.

Way too much to delve into right now except for me to say you can get through this IF you address her abusive past first.

I agree 100% with stunned-dad

If she has been sexually abused as a child, she will need therapy to address this issue. She was also abadoned by her parents. Oh my, so sad for her. She really needs help.

She keeps coming back to you daddypop. I don't think she is taking advantage of you, as it may seem that way. You are her rock. She has been betrayed by everyone at a very young age. You love her deeply? Stick with her and hold her hand through this and you will have a strong marriage and a healthier wife.

Read everything on this site, buy the books, and make an appt. for her to deal with her past. Good luck!

I think I may be able to help here.
I've been dealing with some similar issues with my W. So for the past 10 months or so, I've spent a lot of time reading and talking to people about certain mental disorders.
Since most of the crazymaking and self-destructive behavior here seems to come in short spurts, I'm tempted to suggest that you look into Bipolar disorder.
Also, a whole lot of the situation you are in sounds like textbook borderline personality disorder. It's still somewhat of a misunderstood disorder, and a whole hell of a lot of regular counselors have no clue or experience on treating it. Don't take me as an expert on this disorder, as I can't say I know everything about it, but maybe we can get you started on the right path here... BPD can be very complex, but it really boils down to one trait. Because of the abuse and feelings of being abandoned by the people a person was supposed to have been able to trust the most, persons with BPD themselves always carry a huge fear of being abandoned by their mates. Thats where it becomes a mental disorder. They will sabotage the relationship out of fear, and end up being the ones driving their mate out of the relationship. Its a very, very sad disorder.

Now, self diagnosis is never really a good idea, but once again, to try to help you get on the right path I'll post a bit of info.... Keep in mind this is not a definitive way of diagnosing this.

Psychologists and Psychiatrists use a book called the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual) to diagnose mental health disorders.
There are 9 traits that BPDs seem to have in common, a person that matches 5 or more may indicate BPD.

Now granted, everyone has these traits at one time or another, these traits have to be long standing, (usually a matter of years) and they must be intense in the person. Think about these traits I'm going to write and be honest with yourself in seeing if they match with the behaviors and actions of your W.

(1).A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

2. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in (6).

3. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. This is called "splitting."

-Following is a definition of splitting from the book I Hate You, Don't Leave Me by Jerry Kreisman, M.D. From page 10:

The world of a BP, like that of a child, is split into heroes and villains. A child emotionally, the BP cannot tolerate human inconsistencies and ambiguities; he cannot reconcile anther is good and bad qualities into a constant coherent understanding of another person. At any particular moment, one is either Good or EVIL. There is no in-between; no gray area....people are idolized one day; totally devalued and dismissed the next.

Normal people are ambivalent and can experience two contradictory states atone time; BPs shift back and forth, entirely unaware of one feeling state while in the other.

When the idealized person finally disappoints (as we all do, sooner or later) the borderline must drastically restructure his one-dimensional conceptionalization. Either the idol is banished to the dungeon, or the borderline banishes himself in other to preserve the all-good image of the other person.

Splitting is intended to shield the BP from a barrage of contradictory feelings and images and from the anxiety of trying to reconcile those images. But splitting often achieves the opposite effect. The frays in the BP's personality become rips, and the sense of his own identity and the identity of others shifts even more dramatically and frequently.


4. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

5. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in (6).

6. Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

7. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).

8. Chronic feelings of emptiness

9.Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).

10.Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.
Dissociation is the state in which, on some level or another, one becomes somewhat removed from "reality," whether this be daydreaming, performing actions without being fully connected to their performance ("running on automatic"), or other, more disconnected actions. It is the opposite of "association" and involves the lack of association, usually of one's identity, with the rest of the world.


There is no "pure" BPD; it coexists with other illnesses. These are the most common. BPD may coexist with:

Post traumatic stress disorder

Mood disorders

Panic/anxiety disorders

Substance abuse (54% of BPs also have a problem with substance abuse)

Gender identity disorder

Attention deficit disorder

Eating disorders

Multiple personality disorder

Obsessive-compulsive disorder

Statistics about BPD

BPs comprise:

2% of the general population

10% of all mental health outpatients

20% of psychiatric inpatients

75% of those diagnosed are women

75% have been physically or sexually abused


Luckily for me, a bunch of that was copy/paste <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
The real problem with BPD, and I hope to God she does not have it, is that is it very hard to treat. Mostly being because the people that have it, don't think there is anything wrong with them. Only when they realize that something just isn't right and they need to do something about it can they be treated.
Anyway, think a bit about this. Hopefully this has helped a bit. I'll be around.

I agree with TTsi.

But there is hope. There are good therapists out there, and from what she said yesterday it sounds like she is trying.

Understand that she can't fix this or get herself together on her own. She needs help, lots of love and understanding.

You might have to think of her as disturbed, and put aside your expectations of a normal marriage relationship for a time.

I am married to someone with a personality disorder, too. Sometimes I don't know if I am his therapist or his wife. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

But nothing is too hard, and no one is too messed for God. Remember that.

Daddypop,

I’m sorry you are a victim of your W’s infidelity. I have dealt with certain abuse issues myself (sexual and physical abuse as a child). As the other posters have said, your W needs serious help and can't fix this or get herself together on her own. Apart from Individual Counseling (which is a MUST), chances are great that she also need psychiatric help/medication. But it’s possible for her to heal. With the help of God everything is possible…

If your W think she was also sexually abused and has weird feelings, chances are VERY great (99,999999999%) that she WAS in fact sexually abused… Those memories are often suppressed very deep into the subconscious & soul of the abused child and grown up adult. First she needs to recover personally before you will be able to start marital recovering with her. However, if you really love your W and want her to recover, you can support her with love and understanding.

You’ve already received sound advice from certain posters and they will be able to help you with this, especially Stunned Dad since he was in the exact same position than you.

Another book I can highly recommend is “Toxic Parents” written by the therapist, Dr. Susan Forward. It was of great help to me and deal with all types of childhood abuse e.g. emotional abuse, physical abuse, mental abuse, sexual abuse, abuse because of an alcoholic family etc. It’s a great book for self help, but it will be best if she can work through the book with the help of a good therapist, especially if she also suffered from sexual abuse. The following links will be helpful too and will help give you a better understanding of your W:

Abused Girls May Become Depressed Adults .
Here is other two links on the same topic as above: Emory Report, October 23, 2000 and Emory Health Science Press Release, February 14, 2003

Here is 2 other related articles on the same website:
Effects of Childhood Abuse Persist Into Adulthood
Childhood Abuse and Neglect Causes Changes to Brain
Past Child Abuse More Common Among Single Moms

The following websites with related links/navigations also provides valuable information on the topic of child abuse:
Mental Health Journal

The following one contain research results of childhood abuse, whether adults who were abused as children are still affected by that abuse in their daily lives, and what they can do now to resolve past issues and become more fulfilled, healthy individuals: Effects of Childhood Abuse on Adults . Personally I have found this particular website excellent and very valuable.

Other related websites:
Sexuality - Adult Survivor Relationships
Long term effects of child abuse on adult women
Child Abuse Survivor Resources (This one also give a link to Resources for male survivors) Resources For Male Survivors

Suzet

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the great posts and support. I dont know where to really go from here. Im not sure about the bipolar disorder. She has a friend that has it. Although she did say the other day "maybe I have bipolar disorder".

The past couple of days we have been getting along great. We have talked alot about her past, and I have been trying to be her friend and be there for her. I cant help but be worried that she might act out again. Its really hard because she can be the most honest person, and then look at me straight in the eyes and lie to me. I really have no way of knowing if she is making any of this stuff up. Her being sexually abused, she might be telling me this to make me feel sorry for her. So that I dont leave her.

She told me yesterday that when she was shipped off to her aunts house her mom and aunt decided that she should be in a mental hospital. This is the first that I heard of this. She was crying and upset. She says that they did it cuz she was being bad and rebelling. She was hurting and angry and probably hard to deal with. Thats why they did it. I feel so bad for her, she was just a little girl. I would probably be rebelling if I was treated like that. Doesnt make me insane. You dont just give up on your kid cuz u dont want to deal with them. You dont throw them away. She needed her mom then the most. Now I can see why she acts this way towards me, kind of a mirror of how her mom is.

I have been wondering if she might have some kind of narcissist disorder. Anyone know anything about that? This is so hard. She has so much to deal with as do I. How do I go about picking a doctor that is gonna help this and not make it worse? The counselor we r seeing now as a couple has said that he could give us some names. He said he wasnt sure if he would want to do it cuz if might be like a conflict of interest. My wife said it wouldnt be a problem cuz she has nothing to hide from me. We havent decided yet. What is best?

Im sorry for going on and on. Im so confused, and I cant stop thinking about this. She told me that she is lucky to have someone that loves her so much and that Im the most compassionate person she knows. She feels that God has given me to her. She needs me and whenever she is down, I hold her up. If she feels so strongly about this, then why would she jeopordize it?

Regardless of how we feel about each other, 1 more time and its over for good. Im not taking it anymore even if she has some disorder. She knows right from wrong. Its like she is able to turn her feelings on and off. Maybe it is bipolar. UGHHHHHH!!! This is making me crazy. So much back and forth crap.

Well thanks for listening to be whine. You all are great!

I also wanted to add, if i havent already, that she works in a strip club. I dont like it and I think it could be making everything worse. I have never gone in to see her. Her passion is dancing, and that its an art. She doesnt want to do it cuz of me. But she has to for awhile cuz she makes good money and we have alot to pay for. She wants me to come in and see her and appreciate her. She is a classy and not a sleazy dancer.

The thing is, she doesnt have much experience working at anything else. If she hasnt been working at a club, she has only held down some odd jobs and not for that long. I have always been the responsible one. She doesnt know what else to do. She wants to do this for awhile longer, and get caught up on everything and go to school. I really have no say in her working there or not. She will do what she wants, and for the most part I have supported her working there. My life with her has been like 1 big movie. Almost surreal.

Im hoping she is ready to deal with everything and we can grow from this and make it better. She seems like she is.

Again thanks for listening to me rant. No one else can give me support like the people here. Im gonna go put my head thru the wall now. LOL, kidding. I need a vacation bad. Later...

I know a little about narcissist disorder, it really doesn't sound like it to me, but you'd have to be the judge...
Narcissists generally have the attitude that they are the most perfect thing and can do no wrong. They think about no one else's needs except their own. Some of the more damaged ones actually thrive on the pleasure of other people's pain.
As far as counselors go, I don't see any reason why you both couldn't see the same one. Hell, I would think that you both working through your individual problems together would in the end absolutely strengthen your relationship.
Don't just choose anyone however.
Make some calls. Most will talk with you a bit on the phone to answer questions about their practice. Your first concern should be the amount of experience they have in dealing with people that have her type of problems. If it does turn out to be Borderline disorder, you have really got to make sure the counselor has A LOT of experience with it. It is damn tough to treat. If it ends up being something like Bipolar disorder, I would say that is much easier to treat. As it is pretty much a brain chemistry problem. Most people who are diagnosed with it, 90% of the problems it causes is solved with medication. As long as she takes it regularly and doesn't take herself off of it. I have had a couple of friends in the past who had it. They are perfectly normal while on the medication. But they did say it made them feel wierd, so when they'd stop taking it for a time, they'd have a relapse of crazymaking behavior.

If you ever feel the need to talk to someone off the board, I would be glad to talk to you. Either email or phone. Doesn't matter to me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

daddypop, I don't know anything about mental disorders, except that my WW has one called the wayward wife fog. No drugs for it though, and talk therapy is useless. For my WW I fear it is permanent.

It is very troubling, where your W works. If her passion is dancing, she can do it anywhere. Am I mistaken, or are women who dance nude in front of leering fools prone to being somewhat casual about their sexual boundaries? I don't want to start a whole debate about strip clubs, but all of it, the dancing, the cheating, the abuse, is part of the same equation.

GC

Hey all,

Im feeling pretty down today. I feel like everything is hopeless. Nothing has happened, but I can tell that she is so unhappy. Shes says she is unhappy and is so frustrated and confused. She doesnt know if we r gonna work, but she wants us to. She doesnt know how to get happy. She thinks counseling will help her.

We r 2 diff people. Im not the happiest right now, but I am happy for what I have. I am happy waking up and having my kids and wife. I dont care if we r short on money. Doesnt stress me out. Things like that make her unhappy. She doesnt know what to do. Im getting frustrated myself, and am ready to really let it go. Im worried that by her feeling this way, she is gonna go screw around with that guy again. Im starting to get angry. Whenever she gets mad and confused, she does things. Not saying that she is going to, but Im nervous.

What in the hell is it gonna take? How will I know if she is screwing around again? This is making me nuts. I think I should just let her be and figure herself out. If she needs me, why doesnt she have anything for me like she says? What would u guys do?