I've been browsing some of the other posts on here and boy it HAS been a downer of a week!

I am thankful I'm past the "new" stage and the intense pain has subsided for the most part, though there are still occasional moments.

My big issue now is that I feel like I'm in limbo--like I can't think about or plan for my future because I don't know what it holds. And that ever-present fear of being alone forever and how maybe it's what God has planned for me really gets to me.

Today's sermon at church hit home. It was about thoughts, how they affect our actions, and how we need to be careful to stay focused on Christ and not let our own pride, selfishnes, self-deception, or wrong motives derail us.

I believe I am guilty of all but the first one frequently. Oh, to stay focused on the good and the right and not worry about myself and my own comfort or happiness.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Spoke with the pastor briefly after church. Shared my current struggles with wanting for WH to turn his life around but also to know what to do with my life as he's been at this for 10 months now with no signs of stopping.

Pastor (the other of our co-pastors, not the one I normally talk to) says, "At this point LL, your M is effectively dead. You've tried. Your WH, instead of walking closer, continues to walk away. He is making his own decisions. Maybe you need to put a little cotton in your ears to tune out his whining, and sign the papers and be done?"

Okay...this is NOT what I expect from a pastor, and really not what I expected from this one. But I think he's concerned about the M we've had with the alcohol and all, and is worried about me getting sucked back in. (Though he is also fairly quick to suggest staying single, or at least doing so for a period of time. Today's advice to me was if we do end up apart, that I should not even consider dating for at least 4-5 years, to give me time to get myself together.)

Then a friend I've gone to church with for a long time calls. She and I talked at length about a number of things but finally landed on WH. I filled her in on the latest--she's been away from church for a few weeks so didn't know he moved OW in with him.

However, I also told her that WH will never file D on me. The M vows aren't getting in his way, nor are they in OW's way, as she's also still M but her H has been living with another woman for several months now. OW left him--she has no intentions of going back either.

My friend is a very committed, very patient woman who has been married to a difficult man for years. They are from Korea, and I believe his ethnic background plays a big part, but nevertheless, she has gone through h*ll with him and nearly left him a couple times, but is still hanging in there after 30+ years of M.

Her advice was the complete opposite of the pastor's. She said, "LL, what would be wrong with just remaining M and just going on with life the way you are?" I think if she ever does leave her H, this is what she plans to do.

What she asked of me is exactly what I'm afraid God is asking of me, and what I don't want to do. I don't want to be a single/married person forever.

I'm not single, so I can't go dating or seeking male companionship, and I must work hard to make sure I don't let my vulnerability get the best of me and get caught up in something stupid.

But I'm not M either. The only benefit I'm currently reaping from being M is being able to pay less income tax! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

How are you other long-termers staying focused? I fell pretty impatient having only been at this 10 months, when the guy in SAA was committed to put in a full two years between Plan A/B before giving up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

LL

<small>[ July 30, 2004, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

Hey LL,

I'm glad to see you post, been wondering about you this week. Well I have no advice for you and can't answer your questions about how long, and how to stay focused but wanted to say hey!

Weaver

well LL, i too don't feel like i have much sage advice to offer. you just got to do the best you can, when you can, for as long as you can. maybe just set some timeframes in your minds and then STICK TO THEM. then again you could always change your mind when the day comes and readjust your plan. like make it 1 yr from dday or at the beginning of the year. i don't have kids, i'm 29 yrs old and have only been M for 11yrs so what i say is based on that but it does seem like there are some signs but you know what? God is all powerful and can do anything but fail. He wants the best for his children and maybe this is a test for you, very difficult to say. i would venture to say that maybe your H needs to really live w/OW for a few months to finally wake up, who knows? only God does.

i'm afraid i couldn't really give you an answer but just keep giving it over to God and in HIS time things will be revealed to you. who knows what God has prepared for you and that the particular prayer about your M may not be being answered right now because God is preparing you for it down the road. i too as well as SH feel that my H wants me to be the one to file for D, basically told me he wouldn't do anything until i was ready. well what reason does he have to file? he's getting to carry on his A w/o having to deal w/me and all the while avoid conflict which he is doing. my mission is to outlast the OW. maybe that could be yours too? anyway, continued strength and prayers to you, RR

LL, I didn't have much time to follow up everything now, but I've been thinking of you all the time. How is yout DD?

Regarding to the advice you were getting, I really don't have much to say. RR's opinion is right, just follow GOD's will. I know, we don't what it is, it is easier to say than do. We are all in the same situation, I don't see anything wrong for dating, as long as you are not serious, jsut for fun and have companionship. Our WH are not available anyway.

A bit of good news--tempered just a bit because we haven't received the money yet. Our camper is sold! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Accepted quite a bit less than we'd hoped, but we'll only be about $1,000 short having enough to pay off both the camper loan that WH pays and the home equity I pay.

Odd invitation today--WH called asking if I'd like to go out for a sandwich for lunch. First invite I've had in months, and I had to turn him down because I have clients in from out-of-town so am stuck in a conference room with them all week.

So I'm analyzing: Does he miss our "friendship"? Did he just want to tell me about the camper? What's he up to?

It sounds like he and OW are fairly settled. They currently have her teenage cousin living with them. I guess her dad beat her up and she moved out. I understand them taking her in temporarily, but you'd think that WH would be getting really tired of all this. It was chaos that he claimed to be trying to escape when he found OW.

He seems pretty accepting of all those "warts" of OW's. Okay, lets see--he's found out she was playing with bisexuality, she's given birth to three kids by three different dads (only one of which is still in her custody), she didn't have a job for months (but now has one), she is a slob of a housekeeper, she has a baby (WH generally dislikes kids), and now they're all stuffed in a one-bedroom apartment where her cousin is now living, too.

And yet, WH seems all that much more determined to make this work. He's still hanging in there, and I think coming home at a decent time after work and spending a lot of time with her--exactly what he never did with me.

His dad and step-mom are a successful product of an A that destroyed a M. They've been M for almost 25 years and seem happy as clams. WH has them to look at as examples.

He's been out of our house for almost 6 months--most of it with OW "visiting" him overnight--and has adapted. He's now officially lived with her for a month. Sounds like she is going to inherit the Dodge Neon he bought to replace his truck and he's going to go looking for another car for himself (we were discussing transportation logistics for when DD starts back to school next month.)

I'm not sure I see even a glimmer of hope anymore. And of course now is when I'm thinking about those darned happy moments we had. I don't want alcoholic WH back, with the yelling and cursing and being gone all the time. But I miss the happy days we did share (albeit maybe few sometimes) where we laughed until we cried about something really stupid, or we went on a ride and explored the countryside, or just all the memories we share because we've been a couple since we were 15.

I'd really like to be able to look at my videotapes from when the kids were younger, but WH was such a ham in front of a camera. Watching them will make me really sad. I think I should just put them away and give them to the kids when they move out.

(I read someone else's post yesterday about how they could look at photos but not at videotapes yet. I totally understand that. Photos hit a nerve, but are tolerable. But seeing the action and hearing the voice--too much! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> )

RR, maybe I should try for a while to outlast OW. I believe that my WH is sitting pretty where he is--no attorney fees to file D, no hassle about having to M the OW (he said many years ago that if anything happened with us, he'd never remarry), tax benefits from being M, no hassle from me anymore, etc.

And I'm still giving serious thought to Plan B. Again, not sure exactly the reason, but if for no other reason--because it's something I haven't yet done. Once this camper transaction is complete, that's the last of the major things that was holding me up. We'll pay off the 2 loans, he can pay me what he owes on the credit card, and then all the financial stuff is settled.

I guess for now I just keep hanging in there. DD is home tonight again so that's good. Each day she's here is one day closer to school starting. She was still out a lot, but was easier to manage when in school than during the summer when she's free to roam all day.

Of course each day is also one day closer to when DS goes off to college. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Gonna' miss my baby boy! (Thank goodness college is only about 120 miles away, and it's a very easy interstate drive.)

LL

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

LL

I've been following your posts and wanted to jump in and say hello and to give you support...

I know what you mean by feeling in limbo. It's hard to imagine changing your life one way or another. But it will change, LL. It may or not be the way you envisioned, but that's always been the way of God. You are strong, I see that, and you will not only survive, you will flourish.

Your pastor made some good points, but you don't sound ready in your heart to give up yet. Others have said that you will know when it's time to stop.

You must not analyze that lunch invite too much, in fact, try not to analyze anything he does, OK? He is foggified and defies logic.

Life sounds like he is going to tire of all of the "chaos". Be the peaceful serene warm lighthouse, if that is what you decide to do.

Spoke with WH briefly tonight about camper and home equity loan. I believe he is going to use his insurance $ to help pay off the extra $1,000 remaining on the H/E loan--nice of him. However, he had to throw in the jabs about how it's his $ because even though the truck was in both our names, it was his motorcycle accident settlement 3 years ago that bought the truck, blah, blah..

I asked what he wanted me to do then. He didn't really have an answer.

But an interesting comment came out of the conversation: Seems OW was packing her belongings and was ready to move out of his apartment last night. Why?

Apparently she doesn't like his anger any better than I do. He was actually laughing about it, like it's funny.

On one hand--haha to her. He's not what she thought he was. They've lived together for a month now and she's already threatening moving. (I put up with it for almost 19 years--does that make me strong, or stupid?) Can't be good for their relationship.

On the other hand, I go back to that fear that if she dumps him I'll be faced with a decision because he'll come back my way. I don't want his anger either. But he doesn't seem to see that it's a problem. It's almost like he thinks it's cool and that being angry makes him "macho" or something.

One day it looks like there no hope and I wax all nostalgic and want him back. Then there are glimmers and I'm thinking I should bail now while I still have a valid reason for D.

Much easier to just stay in la-la land and not make any decisions at all.

LL

I think you both ought to dump him. And then when he has nobody left to blame, nobody left to make miserable, and nobody left to pick his sorry a** up off the ground he will be forced to look in the mirror and see what a miserable sod he is. Maybe then he will do something about his nasty personality, his dishonorable conduct and his drinking problem. When he bottoms out, he is going to hit hard!

Sorry LL, are those LB's, well I don't love him so I don't care.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong>

One day it looks like there no hope and I wax all nostalgic and want him back. Then there are glimmers and I'm thinking I should bail now while I still have a valid reason for D.


LL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can certainly understand how you would long for the good old days with those explosive alcoholic RAGES coupled with verbal abuse! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ July 30, 2004, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Actually those are the thoughts that make me think I should bail NOW. (Actually, knowing that OW is having problems with his anger also adds to that thought--confirms that I wasn't just imagining it.)

Somewhere under all the anger and stuff, he did have a really quick wit and fun sense of humor, and it's missing those things that make me sappy from time to time.

LL

<small>[ July 30, 2004, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

Your pastor may have a good point. Plan A is a great way to work on yourself...self improvement, as it were. Plan B, protects any love you may have left for the WS. But...ultimately, it takes two to make a M work. Both you and your H have to want this M. If he is moving on or focused elsewhere you may need to re-evaluate your life/expectations.

Dear LordsLady,

If your H (or should I say "when", because this is what's going to happen) wants to come back home.. don't let him.
Once you let him into your life & house again he'll assume you agree with everything the way you did before.

If however you use this exceptional opportunity to make him think about himself and the way he should treat a lady <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> that could be very, very positive.

Let him date you. Be hard to get but friendly. I've read a wonderful post on this board somewhere where a woman followed the directions of her counselor to make her WH interested in her again, interested enough to change himself into a better person.

If he'd ask for a date she didn't always comply. Sometimes she'd say she would be "out" with "friends" when in reality she stayed home. She didn't go to far.. just became more mysterious, harder to get.

Make it absolutely clear that you'll only have him back if he joins AA and sticks to it. The only alcohol limit for him is 0%. He'll have to do something about that bad temper, too, go to counseling or whatever.

No sex. No cuddling. No pity party. At most he can kiss your hand <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . Be friendly but distant. Don't give him the feeling he can just "move in" again and walk all over you again. He'll have to change - tell him what you like(d) about him, what you love, and what troubles you and what you don't want anymore. Set your boundaries my dear!

If he can truely show you he's a changed man.. then decide if you feel safe enough AND LOVED enough to have him back in your life.

God also wants his children to be strong, to stand up to injustice. Jesus kicked those "dealers" out of the temple, didn't he? If you allow your H to act out his anger on you, if you allow him to drink, you're keeping his "dealers" in the temple of his soul & your M.

Hmm... enough of my ranting.. Does this make any sense to you my dear? Would it be an alternative to D?
You sound like a really nice person. You deserve to be treated that way.

<small>[ July 31, 2004, 02:18 AM: Message edited by: brownhair ]</small>

Brownhair,

Once you let him into your life & house again he'll assume you agree with everything the way you did before.

I totally agree with this, and I think this is probably why I have anxiety issues each time I think there may be rays of hope coming from his direction. I'm afraid because if/when he wants to come back home, I'll be faced with tough issues.

-----------------------------------------------
Different issue:

Daughter's 15th birthday is this coming Wednesday. She has already asked for my mom and dad to be in attendance (hope SHE remembers this and doesn't pull one of her disasppearing acts <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ).

Do I invite WH to our house for her birthday celebration? He's living with OW--but the invitation would just be for him.

Or do I suggest to him that if he wants to see her, he might invite her down to their place on an alternate evening?

I'm not in Plan B, so I guess that means I'm still doing Plan A (except that I sort of just ignore him anymore unless he calls or texts, and then I'm polite).

Advice on this one? Opinions?

LL

It's your call LL but IMHO, this issue is not about your R but his with his daughter. So what is best for your daugther?

Of course this does not mean you do all for him. He can go and do his share of the preparation and getting his own gift for her.

As for the OW, she should not be invited. She is not a part of the family, is she? Family and friends of your family and your daugther. Nobody said anything about an OW. Don't fret over it. If he is dumb enough to show up with her, have your support be ready to tell him to remove the trash or have him remove the garbage himself.

JMHO, of course. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

Okay, daughter was hinting around about wanting her dad at her birthday party, so I invited him via text message.

Had to stop at the shop later tonight to drop his mail that has been coming to our house (the shop has a mail slot--was just going to shove it through the door like he told me and he'd get it tomorrow morning).

However, he was still working when I arrived at 7pm so I went in (appears he's avoiding going to his apartment just like he avoided our house). He accepted the birthday invitation and said he's looking forward to getting away from the chaos (strange twist...that's why he wanted away from our house) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> .

Apparently the babysitter (OW's cousin) who was temporarily housed there because someone beat her (I thought it was her father--turns out it was her boyfriend) is still there. And not only is she there, but her 4 kids are now there as well. (Yes, 4 kids--and she's only 23. OW had 3 kids by the time she was 25. They reproduce quickly!).

So, right now living in a 1-BR apartment are WH, OW, OW's baby, babysitter, and babysitter's 4 kids. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> (I'm thinking there's a little violation of a fire code going on there.)

He says the agreement is that the sitter and kids have to be out by tomorrow. Uh huh...

Oh, and OW's job was through a temp agency (I didn't know that), and the assignment is now over, so she's back to being unemployed.

I don't think WH is too happy right now and I sort of feel sorry for him. He's living in a far worse situation than he left. I just don't want him running back to me to pick up the pieces if his world crumbles, only to set him on his feet and have him do this all over again.


LL

LL, it sounds like you're doing so well. I'm glad.

WH is getting consequences like mad, isn't he? You should get ready for him to want to come home. It seems almost inevitable, and you gotta be tough.

Hope you and your DD are getting on okay. I don't think she should be hanging out at WH's love shack, although I guess it really isn't that right now. OW could be back though. She probably has nowhere else to go.

GC

GC,

Thanks. I am not a pillar of strength but do feel a little more confident with things than I did when I first came to MB.

Consequences you say? I think he'd have to be deaf and blind not to see them. I think he does see them, but there's a lot of pride in the way. He probably does love OW, and then it's hard for him to admit he made a mistake, even a catastrophic one like this.

The "love shack" is a little crowded right now, but actually the move-out statement was just directed (at least initially) at babysitter and her kids. The OW and baby haven't been asked to leave. Though if she remains unemployed it could go either way. He may get tired of supporting her. Or more likely, he'll be unable to boot her because he feels sorry for her and the baby.

I still have those Plan B thoughts tumbling around, but am still not sure they're the right thing to do. Months ago when I counseled with JHC, her reason to have me consider Plan B was to remove myself from the pain while waiting for the A to die on it's own.

But if I go to Plan B, I'll miss all this quality entertainment! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

(Sometimes you just have to have a sense of humor or life would be miserable.)

LL

LL, you are setting a great example for me. You are so strong now. I am getting numb now. I don't care what WH does anymore. I will try to have a normal life myself and not to care about what plan I am in now.

LL,

Keep praying and you'll know what's right when the time comes. My priest also said a surprising thing to me - That H had broken the marriage contract, and God doesn't expect me to continue a broken contract. However, I can negotiate a new contract, and D may be a part of it. My jaw hit the floor. Can a priest really tell you that?! He reminded me that God helps those who help themselves, and His plan isn't for me to be miserable and support someone who doesn't follow God's plan. But even if it comes to D, I should continue to pray and care about H, that he could still be saved through my prayers. Very confusing and hard to think about these deep issues right now. We went to pre-marital counseling but it seemed like a lot of fun back then. If they covered any of this stuff I didn't retain it! Hang in there.

LNH,

Good to hear from you. I try to keep up with your thread, too. I'm sorry things don't sound like they've changed much since you got home, though he did clean up your house and stay in your bed. He must still care.

As for me, I feel stronger most days. It's still lonely, and I often feel sort of stuck between married life and single life. I don't fit with the "marrieds" because their primary focus is their husband and families. I don't fit with single women because those at my age often have other focuses (dating, etc), and I'm married so that is not an option.

So, I just keep doing things around the house. I still have plenty to do, but am a little concerned for when cold weather hits and I can no longer work outside. I love warm weather and being out in it. I don't like being stuck inside alone.

But time will tell. Hopefully even if things haven't worked themselves out by this winter, the holidays and all are easier to deal with than they were last year.

Terri,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Keep praying and you'll know what's right when the time comes. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everyone keeps telling me I'll know if it's time, but that's where I feel stuck. I am a very indecisive person. I keep thinking, "what if 10 years from now I'm still doing this same thing?"

-----------------------------------------------

Text from WH this morning: "it was good seeing you".

I could tell last night when I dropped off his mail and saw him at the shop he was having one of his "questioning" moments where he really isn't too sure of what he's doing. But I also feel like he keeps me on the string as a second choice for when/if the A ends, and that bothers me.

I don't want my relationship to completely end with my WH because I will always have feelings for him (nor can it end, at least for a while, as we have kids together and will have to communicate to an extent). But it gets harder and harder as the months drag on to think of sharing intimate moments again with someone who has walked out and chosen to be intimate with OW for 9 months now.

LL