To all BS MBers,

I'm really not trying to be corny here.

As a BH, I feel as an outsider to the world sometimes. The only time I don't feel lonely is when I'm here reading or posting.

My FWW looks at me as though I'm the alien. She can't relate at all to how I feel. My emotions are a flip flop of fickle mess. One moment happy I'm married and a father and at the next moment angry with myself for being such a fool.

I can't really relate to my spouse anymore. I've gone through periods of indifference before but this seems different. Almost like she's my special roomate.

It's been difficult to pick up the pieces and get on with my life. I wish I knew how. I wish I knew the best route to take: continue on with W or divorce her.

The way I feel now I'm not sure where the future leeds. I feel like chucking my entire life and moving to a new city or foreign country in order to start completely over.

Maybe the aliens will abduct me.

Mac

Mac, there's this very nice country in the southern hemisphere........

I didn't think you were doing too good. Your posts are very down. What makes you feel you're not getting anywhere with your M? Is it cos she doesn't want to talk about any more or is it cos she's just "not there".

Gosh, I'm not a BS, am I allowed on here.

Jen

Hi CWMAC,

I'm not familiar with all of the details on your situation, but I experienced many of the feelings that you're describing...

It took my W almost two years to finally start coming around and opening up with me... Looking back, I now realize that it took ME almost two year to learn how to respond to my W in a godly, mature way so that she felt "safe" enough to open up to me...

Somewhere around the two year mark (from Dec 2000 - Aug/Sep 2002) things just started clicking and we really started communicating. Just prior to this, I really was beginning to wonder if it was all worth it.

IMHO, I believe that our WS must first see that we are not going to just slip back into our "old" selves... after we (the BS) demonstrate consistency of our actions over a period time (~2 years for my W and I) our WS will start opening up more.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The way I feel now I'm not sure where the future leeds. I feel like chucking my entire life and moving to a new city or foreign country in order to start completely over. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I too had these feelings... but I'm so glad that I never acted on them or I would have lost the most special person in my life, my wife... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Semper Fi,
RIF90

CWMac,
I see your posts so often, and they are always you helping and giving support to other BS's. I see you as a rock. Shame on me for forgetting even for a second that none of us here WANT to be here but instead at some point were brought here by our circumstances.
I can't help but believe me it's not because I don't wish I could. You've given so much here if anyone deserves something good it is you.
How about a lot of prayer and a verse? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
"For I know the plans I have for you,' declares the Lord, 'plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

Oops, the quote's from Jeremiah 29:11.
My MIL gave us a cross stitch w/ it on it for Christmas one year. Right before the bottom dropped out the next Jan.

cw:

I can relate to you. For 16 months after D-day, I struggled to reconnect with WW, but found we'd settled into a roomie situation, too.

Part of it was competing with the ghost of OM, and part of it was competing with WW's own internal demons. She was wracked with guilt and shame for the longest time, but she also put up walls to me. Intimacy, which had vanished long before the A, was impossible to regain. Our conversations were stilted, and worked on the superficial level.

But, I think the biggest thing I to compete with was the fact that the M was from fulfilling for me, and had been for almost a decade. It started with the birth of DD #2, and my W withdrew from me to become "Supermom". This was at the expense of "Uphill's Wife", and I seemed to be a constant source of irritation. We became the "Wrongs"; she was "Never Wrong" and I was "Always Wrong".

Like you I struggled until this spring, when I had an epiphany. None of my needs were being met, and she wasn't even trying. Like I said, the ghost of OM and her own internal demons were preventing her from doing so. Then, I happened across a box of photos, which stretched from our first days together until Christmas 2003. I looked at one of myself, and I saw this chubby balding old guy - a far cry from the photos of DD #2's first birthday. I almost cried when I saw how much I'd aged in the past 10 years, the past ten years of lonely, frustrated misery.

My epiphany was that my life, my one and only life was passing in front of my eyes, and I was passing it in a sterile, celibate existence not of my choosing or desire. At 41 I feel more mortal than I ever have before, and I realized that I could very well grow into my old age in this same existence, unless I chose to do something about it.

That meant leaving. I WANT passion, I WANT closeness, I WANT intimacy, I WANT my needs filled, and it was not in my wife's capability to fill them.

At the moment I decided to leave, I also decided to truly forgive my W. She is who she is, and she tried to the best of her ability. Unfortunately, it was not enough. I could not spend the rest of my life trying like hell to get maybe a crumb of what I need from her.

Basically, my lovebank went dry.

There are moments when I am now the one consumed with guilt and second guessing, and I wonder if I shouldn't have thrown in the towel so soon. At the long weekend at the beginning of July, W begged me to come back, but I just couldn't. She claims she's had her epiphany, and she says she is now ready to meet my needs, but I just can't make myself receptive to that. I honestly cannot remember what it was like for her to do it!

My point is this: you are, quite understandably, becoming exhausted with the lopsidedness of your R, and the fundamental lack of needs being fulfilled. I have read through here and other sites, and I see many BS (mostly women, but I think that only reflects the overall ratio of BW to BH) who've also reached their limits. It's a natural thing, and an inevitable, I think, when the WS is, subconsciously or not, taking the lead role in reconciliation.

I am envious of those BS who are far more capable than me of waiting, thinking, "Wow. Talk about love! I guess I don't have their courage to be so patient, so sure that eventually it will work out."
But then I am also thinking, "What - do you think you're going to live for ever? Are you truly prepared to wait on the sidelines for the rest of your life on the hope your WS will give to you?"

Occasionally in my darkest mood I think, "Perhaps the constant rejection and invalidation IS their need. Perhaps those BS who want so much to stick it out when their WS are doing so much taking and so little giving is in fact fulfilling some sort of martyr need they have."

All I can say is, we're human, too, and no more perfect than our WS. Just as their empty love banks and unmet needs drove their actions, so too do they drive ours. Some, perhaps the more courageous, are much more resilient to the wait than the rest of us. But, I don't think it's entirely unrealistic to recognize your limit, or when you've reached it. We are at least initially committed to rebuilding our marriages; we are all sharing in the dream of a better, more mutually fulfilling M, and we all probably could remain doggedly committed, if we lived for infinity. But, we don't. We only get one chance at this thing called life - how do you want to spend the rest of yours?

Thanks for all of the reply's.

KiwiJ,
New Zealand sounds good. If someone knocks on your door in the next few months, ask who it is before you open the door. Might be a stranger from so Cal.

Rebuilding,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe that our WS must first see that we are not going to just slip back into our "old" selves... after we (the BS) demonstrate consistency of our actions over a period time (~2 years for my W and I) our WS will start opening up more. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By "consistency of actions" do you mean bad preA habits being gone or do you mean negative responses to the A??

Marsmom,

Thanks for the thought... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "For I know the plans I have for you,' declares the Lord, 'plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Uphill,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Part of it was competing with the ghost of OM, and part of it was competing with WW's own internal demons. She was wracked with guilt and shame for the longest time, but she also put up walls to me. Intimacy, which had vanished long before the A, was impossible to regain. Our conversations were stilted, and worked on the superficial level </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The ghost is here,too. My wife is wracked with guilt as am I. With me it's guilt for the life I've lived as well as for the fact that I can't seem to get my stinking head out of the past.

We've made a bit of progress on the intimacy, but I've discovered another lie. At this point I'm too tired to even confront her over it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Like you I struggled until this spring, when I had an epiphany. None of my needs were being met, and she wasn't even trying.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(Un)fortunately my wife is trying hard in certain areas while in others she's only recently made progress. That's what makes my feelings so tough and adds to the guilt.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My epiphany was that my life, my one and only life was passing in front of my eyes, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I WANT passion, I WANT closeness, I WANT intimacy, I WANT my needs filled, and it was not in my wife's capability to fill them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">These are the same thoughts I've had except my wife is attempting to meet the needs. Guess I'm not sure that I want her to be the one to meet them. Maybe I'm just afraid to let her meet them again. Probably afraid that I'll let her meet them but in reality she'd rather be with OM.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We only get one chance at this thing called life - how do you want to spend the rest of yours? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I could answer this question I would. As I said I bounce from one extreme to the other and back again. Seems to be in about a 2 week cycle. I'm happy and I want to stay then I want to run like hell.

What stops me from leaving? I seem to be reliving my father's life all over again. Mom and dad split. She ends up with next door neighbor who miraculously gets divorced at the same time. Father can't take it and or uses that as the excuse to bail. W's A has brought all of this to light again.

Everytime I want to flee, I think of how my father's abandonment felt to me. So I seem to be stuck in psychological pergatory. Can't leave because of ghosts from the past and can't be happy because of the ghosts of OM, lies etc.

Anyway thanks again to those who posted. I'm wrestling with my inner thoughts on this thread for all to see.

Mac

MAC, you've helped me on more than one occasion and so I felt the necessity to at least try and return the favor even if it is only to offer moral support but here's my take.

I can't tell you if staying with your W is the right thing to do or not just as no one on this board can, but you already know that. No one in here can change what has occured in their lives and we can't predict what will happen in the future but if we focus on the right now we can enjoy the moment.

There is a parable that I really like and even though no one else seems to I will share it anyway. I thought of it again this morning in fact as I often do.
There was a monk walking through the jungle when a large tiger jumps out at him; the monk starts to run but the tiger is much to fast, just as the tiger is ready to pounce on the monk the monk reaches a cliff and jumps off, at that moment he realizes that he will surley fall to his death so he reaches out and grabs a very small root that is sticking out, as he is hanging by this tiny root, with the tiger above him and a 100 ft fall below him he looks up and see a wild strawberry, the monk reaches up and picks the strawberry and thinks, this is the most perfect strawberry I have ever seen.

That's it, that's the parable. I guess the point to be taken is that there is joy to be found in every moment we must just look for it.


All of us in here have had to make tuff choices. I chose to stick it out with my FWW and I assure you there is NO martyr in me. I'm glad I made that choice although there were times I was not. I'm one of the lucky ones and things have worked out for me and Mrs. E but there are no guarantees just as there would have been none if I had left.

One of the things I like about your responses to my posts is that they are very direct so I'll cut the bull and get to the real point.... You've made a choice. Make the most of it. If at some point you must make a new decision make it and move on, until then give it your all. If you leave you will never know what would have been if you had stayed so don't try to figure it out. However, if you have done everything in your power to make it work and it has not you can at least feel good about yourself when you look in the mirror. Make the most of the choice you make my friend. Live in the moment and always remember IT'S A GREAT DAY TO BE ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> By "consistency of actions" do you mean bad preA habits being gone or do you mean negative responses to the A??
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, both.... My wife needed to see that I had actually changed my actions that created the poor condition of our M (I was controlling and didn't treat her as an equal in our M)... and she needed to feel safe with my responses to her answers to my questions...

LOTS of hard work for both of us, but looking back, it was well worth the sacrifice... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Mac,

I hear and "understand" both your feelings and your frustration.
(Or is it just resignation to the inevitable?)

In any case, I think you must have a web cam set up in my house here.
Let me know exactly where it is so that I don't gross you out or anything.

How does the "hopefulness" & awakening of D-day get to THIS?

I too grow "weary" of the struggle.
My indifference is growing and when I do happen to get a spark I am inevitably "disappointed".
I am tired of carrying the majority of the load, of always being the strong one, and of the one who always has to be in the understanding and forgiving mode.

Basically, She has just worn the "want" to try right out of me.

I am sorry that I don't feel up to any great help or insight.
I am just too depressed. (Sorry to let you down and be of absolutely NO HELP!)

Just sitting here listening to music and I've gotten the replay on a song by James Ingram.
Here it is........its pretty close to how I'm feeling right now. So lets play it , one more (or ten more times)....

Just Once
James Ingram

I did my best
But I guess my best wasn't good enough
'Cause here we are back where we were before
Seems nothing ever changes
We're back to being strangers
Wondering if we oughta stay
Or head on out the door

Just once can't we figure out what we keep doing wrong
Why we never last for very long
What are we doing wrong
Just once can't we find a way to finally make it right
Make the magic last for more than just one night
If we could just get to it
I know we could break through it

I gave my all
But I think my all may have been too much
'Cause Lord knows we're not getting anywhere
Seems we're always blowing whatever we got going
And seems at times with all we've got
We haven't got a prayer
Just once can't we figure out what we keep doing wrong
Why the goodtimes never last for very long
Seems we're always blowing
Whatever we got going

Just once can't we find a way to finally make it right
Make the magic last for more than just one night
If we could just get to it
I know we could break through it

Just once I want to understand
Why it always come back to good-bye
Why can't we get ourselves in hand
And admit to one another
That we're no good with out the other
Take the best and make it better
Find a way to stay together

Just once can't we find a way to finally make it right
Make the magic last for more than just one night
I know we can break through it
If we could just get to it

Just once
If we could get to it

Just Once...

Hope the rest of you are laying off the "grog" tonight.......cause I'm sure NOT!
Apologize for the mini vent.............just very Very tired of this all...........I thought it was supposed to be "better" by now.
Guess that depends on who's definition we're using.
OK, enough from me.
later