I was reading with interest lonelyheartsclub's post and the resulting discussion on OP. Thought I'd start a post to dig out whenever someone says that all we BS do is sit around roasting the OP and blaming them for the problems that befall our marriages.

It just ain't true. At least not in my case. And I am hoping others who feel that way will add their stories here (and that those who want to argue that all OP should rot in hell will resist the urge to say so on this thread).

While I agree that an OP has absolutely no place in a recovering marriage, I cringe at the way the OP are sometimes characterized here on MB (and, no, I don't think that the pain and trauma of the betrayal excuses it).

In my case I never allowed myself to think that the two OW we had to deal with were evil witches who set out to steal my man and crush my children. (Yes, there are some OP out there who fit this description, but they are a small minority).

Instead, I thought of them much like I thought of my wayward husband — as human beings who felt compelled to go outside their unhappy marriages to find some confirmation of their worth.

Personally I disliked OW #1 and had very little communication with her as a result. But OW #2 and I exchanged several emails and had a couple of brief face-to-face encounters that I would describe as friendly. I know a bit about each woman's story and I wouldn't want to trade places with either of them.

Point is, these women fell prey to the very human needs we all have. And had I not been working so hard to avoid my unhappy marriage, perhaps I would have met a man and done the same to my husband. (Took a long time to accept that little tidbit, let me tell you).

So, there it is. Snow is telling the world that OW #1 and OW #2 were not all that bad as far as human beings go.

Anyone else feel the same about the OP in their own situation?

Snow:

It's important 2 distinguish between behavior and people.

I don't like RM, but I don't really know him either. And that's one reason I don't like him. His behavior can burn in hell, and should as soon as possible.

I really don't wish him ill. In fact, it would have been far more helpful 2 MY cause if he'd chosen 2 repair his own M rather than DV. But he had villified his own BW so much that she was behaving just like he expected she would - like a crazy woman.

Again, it would be great if he'd recover and be a better father 2 his sons and H 2 somebody - his xW or someone OTHER THAN my W. But it's really not my problem. I've got enough 2 deal with at home.

-ol' 2long

<small>[ August 15, 2004, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: 2B Us Again ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Snowbelle:
<strong>So, there it is. Snow is telling the world that OW #1 and OW #2 were not all that bad as far as human beings go.

Anyone else feel the same about the OP in their own situation? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No.

I have absolutely nothing positive to say about OM, my former friend, so I won't say anything at all.

However, I will attend his funeral to make sure he's dead. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WAT:

You slay me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Snowbelle:

I cringe at the way the OP are sometimes characterized here on MB </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I often remind myself that my husband was once OP....

The ugly characterizations about OP generally fade over time as marital recovery progresses.

I think it is just part of the process.... hating OP is stage one ... it usually cannot last... it is usually not useful long term .... but it can give the BS a small sense of "control" over a situation they have little actual control .... their own rage at the person they love.... the WS.

Namecalling doesn't mean much when compared to adultery.... it's like comparing spitting to hitting. Both are poor choices, but one REALLY hurts.... the other just is messy.

Pep

I think anger at the OP and the WS is a very natural and healthy part of the recovery process. I don't think name calling even begins to compare with the damage inflicted from an affair and is really nothing in comparison. No one is harmed from some healthy venting in this forum, whereas, adultery destroys people's lives. There is no virtue in standing silent when someone destroys you.

The fallout from an affair is as painful as losing a child, so I find it sort of galling that anyone could possibly expect a brutalized BS to shut up and not express that anger. This is a safe place in which BS' can come to express their grief, thankfully.

I think it a large percentage of cases, probably the vast majority, the OW's DO in fact set out to "steal your husband." How else would you explain all the posts of the TOW board and occasionally here bemoaning the fact that the WS has not left his wife.

I find it interesting that you don't seem to be getting any responses from people who think the OW is "not all the bad" - maybe because most OW's ARE.

I just got through reading the LHC thread and it stirred me into thinking I should post, but held back as thought I would probably get flamed.

I am a betrayed spouse. Mybe for me I feel differently because the OW in my case was someone whom I cared for deeply and so the circumstances are a little different than they are when one doesn't know or have had a relationship with them other than as the OW in an affair trieangle.

Convenient as it would be for me to blame solely OW and forgive my H and hate her, I see that that would be rather hypocritical of me. If I can find it within myself to forgive my husband who is the one who made vows to me, then wouldn't it be rather shallow of me to go on hating the OW.

I know that my husband was no innocent party who was seduced and forced into adultry by this woman. Did she make herself an attractive and available option to him? My word she did. But he did as much scheming and pusuing of her as she did of him.

I do not hate the OW. In a lot of ways I actually feel sorry for her. She wasted a great deal of her life on a fantasy that was never real. She was hidden away as some shameful secret in his life, not a partner whom my heuband proudly displayed as his. That she was willing to settle for this for so many years speaks volumes for how much she thought of herself and what ahe truly deserved in a real fulfilling relationship. I see what her exixtence must have been like as misery.

Do I deplore her behaviour and her treatment of me. My word I do. And I will never have anything to do with her again in my life. That is because it would not be good for me and not because I want her to rot in hell. I am saddened by the loss in my life of someone whom I has thought of as my closest friend for many many years, bit console myself with the reality that indeed she was not truly a friend to me, that that was just my own perception. My last words to her almost three years ago now were that I wished her well but that I would no longer have anything to do with her.

I do have one thing to thank her for. I would never have known the full extent of my Hs affair if in her rage at him for ending relationship with her she had not filled me in on all the sordid details. Her motives were not to help me, but they did. We got to repair the marriage in full knowledge rather than on a few shaky details.

C&S

We've dealt with this subject before on MB. Here's my take again.

OPs have some redeeming qualities. However, in the A those qualities are squelched by the selfish acts of the A.

R U asking us to see the good in the OP? Can't, the selfish acts of the A are hiding whatever good is in them. In fact it is hiding it in the WS and trying hard to wipe it out of the BS. At least that is what the fog does. It hides all goodness.

So what do you expect the BS, friends and family to do? Look for something when the OP and Ws are trying desparately to hide it?

No, the BS is only able to see what the OP and WS are portraying.

If you want the BS, friends and family to see the good in the OP and WS, then by all means show it. Stop talking bad about all the good in the Ws' M. Stop talking bad about the Bs, friends and family. Stop talking bad about the past. Stop stealing from the family's assets, emotionally, morally, physically, financially and spiritually.

I tried hard to look for the good in the OP. The harder I tried the less I saw. Whose fault was that?

Does that go for some OP who are not as bad as the nuttier ones? Yep.

L.

Snow -

Nice thread. I would think that I would be one of the people you requested not to post on this thread. Instead I'll say this:

The FOW in my sitch would probably fit the minority category you mentioned earlier. Beyond that fact I do not hate her. I do not think she should receive an award for her actions or anything but I do not hate her.

I recently read a book on forgiveness. In reading this book I thought of the people I needed to forgive in my life. My mother...for hurting me; my H for crushing me with the A and last but not least FOW. I know that I have forgiven each of them and I also know that I need forgiveness for some of my actions. The title of the book was "Total Forgiveness".

Now when I pray I pray for her to be blessed and I mean that. I want her to be blessed and I do not wish for her to suffer. My family will overcome this and we will be stronger for having experienced it.

I feel sorry for her as I know this was not her first A and was not her last. That life has to be an unhappy one and I think of her children often. This is a cycle that will most likely be repeated throughout their lives. She is not like the OPs others have discussed. She didn't just 'happen' into a relationship with my H. He is to blame as much as she is and for her H my H is the OP. That fact sickens me. I am not saying she is pitiful and deserves or requires my pity but that's how it is. She has tormented me and has not taken the high road in this situation.

Snow you are a humble caring person for posting this. Being a BS this shows how far you've come.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have a new way of dealing with my feelings about the SOW. She got a part of my H that I never knew could ever exist. A part that could lie, cheat, and put aside all morals and integrity. That's what he had to do "for her."
He was so lost to himself that he didn't know what he had become. That part of him died when the affair died. She can keep that part of him, I don't want it. It's all she got from him anyway.
I know have the man I fell in love with, the man I married back. The man I deserve. She got the man she deserved. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> That's my quote.

Yes, that is what I believe (or at least remind myself everytime I think of SOW) but it's hard. There will always be a part of me that hates this woman for purposely setting out to "pick up" my husband. In one of their earliest conversations where she was showing "concern" for the state of our M, she actually asked, "Well do you two still sleep in the same bed?" IMAGINE!! This is a woman who had only been an acqaintance of my H's for a few months!! Would any of you women out there even fathom asking someone's husband this question???? Gee, don't tell me there wasnt "intent" on her part.

I need to remind myself that I actually said the above quote (and believed it!) when I wrote it. It's hard work but it's either convince myself that this how I feel all the time and maybe it will happen, or live with anger and hate for the rest of my life. I am tired of hate...it takes up too much precious energy. Energy that I need for my marriage and family.

In someways I really feel sorry for the OW. She is obviously not a very good person, and has some very deep issues. She can't possibly be truely happy or on the path to having a good life. My WH was not the first one she cheated on her husband with. I have no idea how she sleeps at night knowing she helped to destroy two marriages, the lives of 3 innocent children (granted she didn't know about my baby when the A started but she does now), her husband, my husband and myself. I have no idea if she feels remorse or not, and frankly I just don't care. She is not worthly of my time or thoughts. I know that I am not perfect, but I never did anything to intentionally hurt that many other people. I refuse to let this person bring me down to her level. One day she will get what is coming to her, that I am sure of and when it happens she will have no one to blame but herself. Doesn't sound like much of a future does it?

I love your quote Fraggles and I've got in tucked away so I can remind myself of those words when I am having a really low day, like yesterday!

I am slowly getting to the point, other then my low days, that I do feel sorry for the OW. I feel that more than hate. I am not a hateful or vindictive person by nature and it really bothers me when I have those thoughts.

I look at so many people and where they are today and know that one day I'll be there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Nope. I actually didn't have a bad word to say about OW (or a bad thought in the beginning). I thought she was young, naive, and had no idea what she was getting into. Fortunately, she never said anything horrible about me, either.

I actually could see what FWS found attractive about her. She was in the same field and has a PhD. She was younger and thinner. She is very dedicated to her parents and was still living at home.

At the height of the A, I actually thought I could be friends with OW if I had talked to her. That's why I wanted to stay far away. From things that FWS said, I was starting to think we were kinda similar.

But towards the end, as I started to hear more about her family situation, alarms were going off all over. None of us are perfect, but some of us have a few more years of working on ourselves.

I am so very grateful that she had some kind of principles and has respected NC. We have not heard one word from her, although she still works at FWS' company. (He left 3 months ago.) She even works with one of FWS' good friends, but his friend has no clue about the A.

Now after 7 months of recovery, I hope I never cross her path. I hate her guts.

One of WW "partners" was our "best man". I've known this person for 40 years. WAT sums it up pretty well..."I will attend his funeral to make sure he's dead"...to which I would add AND PISS ON HIS GRAVE!

I'd rather stick a pencil in my eye than think about the OW. Unfortunatly, I deal with her all too often. Last time, she apologized for wreaking my life....I think she was trying to out-nice me....then I told her that nothing she or dh did was unforgivable. She flat out told me that she couldn't understand me. (sigh) THAT is exactly the difference between her and I. Everything she did in HER eyes is unforgivable. She wouldn't have forgiven it....poor thing....I can only imagine how high HER self esteem is, since I know all too well what it (the a) did to mine for awhile - perhaps that's why she was still drunk at 6:55 in the morning, and hadn't gone to bed from the night before.

(secretely, tho, besides having dh in MY bed every night, the BEST revenge is a life well lived....that and OC#1 calls me mommy...I've no doubt OC#2 loves me, too, since I hold him all the time....I just can't stop sniffing his baby hair....so sweet)

- Kimmy

I'm a christian and God says that I must forgive OW for her part in the A. I wish her all the best that life has to offer... just stay away from my family! I can forgive... I don't have to forget and I don't have to like her.

My husband and I are responsible for the state our marriage was in at the time of the A... My husband and OW are responsible for the A. Yes he made a mistake... but so did she. She crossed the line when she told my H that "he could call her anytime he needed to talk to someone". She had motives. Why not tell him that he should talk to ME his Wife about how he was feeling?? She was pursuing my husband and encouraging him to leave me to be with her. She played like she was the sweet inocent person who only cared for h best interest... every time they talked she always asked "how's your wife doing?" (I was nine months pregnant at the time of the A) Like she really wanted to know. She was just trying to get H to talk about how unhappy he was with me. Thing was... he wasn't "unhappy" until she told him he was. She is the type of person that I just can't respect. Why should I when she didn't respect me or herself for that matter.

My husband told her it was over and she continued to contact him... we have moved, changed jobs and our phone numbers so she can't reach him. It has been a great relief to me and husband. We are on the road to recovery and are doing very well.

I've gone back and forth...feeling sorry for the OW's (they were so manipulated/lied to) to feeling very hateful.

The last OW takes the cake though. She told me that she knew exactly what I was going through since she had (supposedly) been a BS twice before. She wanted to know what stage (recovery?) I was in...that I sounded really angry on the phone and she wondered if I had cried yet. I felt a moment or two of hate during that call.

If you've been a BS, how can you intentionally put someone else through this? Seems as though you would be more sympathetic to the situation. Oh duh, they don't think of anyone else...my bad.

This last OW also said that she thought my H was the perfect man...that if she lived in this area she would not be giving up so easily. Like she even stood half a chance! She was in some dream world!

The OW's were probably not bad people, just very manipulated and lied to (by my H), as well as very confused.

sss

<small>[ July 27, 2004, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: stillsosad ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She told me that she knew exactly what I was going through since she had (supposedly) been a BS twice before </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah. Doesn't that just beat all? Our ow said the same thing (only once).... The thing is, she gambled MY actions on what she'd do. Phphphphphpppt on that one huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I guess not everyone is as unforgiving as she is....good thing for my dh!

- Kimmy