</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong>They should be supported and praised for doing the right thing and that is what they get here. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is exactly right (thanks for admitting) and I'm sure this is what believer was trying to say and get through with her posts... Also I think a repentant and remorseful FWS needs to be supported & praised for doing the right thing IN SPITE of withdrawal and feelings they may still have for the OP.

<small>[ July 28, 2004, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
<strong> Melody -

You have helped me out a whole bunch over the past year. I greatly admire you, and trust you completely. Maybe you are right.

I have lots of empathy for people, because I have made so many mistakes.

How about this? I will mollycoddle the WS's and you whack them. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believer, you know I love ya, but I also know that there is a NEED for both types of people here. You make invaluable contributions to this forum with your empathetic nature. I can't count the times that I have had said "thank God for believer!" when some sad soul just needed a few kind words and a pat on the back!

However, please realize that the opposite is also true. I have seen the ENORMOUS benefits of a well timed 2X4 from JL or Pep or MM or Orchid over the years when NOTHING ELSE would have sufficed.

I have LIVED this for years myself in AA, as a whackee and a whacker. If it weren't for a certain Catholic nun, who loved me enough to take a 2x4 to me when I needed it, I wouldn't be sober today! And I LOVE that woman for caring enough to risk pissing me off by giving it to me straight between the eyes when I needed it. It would have been so much easier for her to tell me nice words and blow me off.

So, believer, just know that I do know there is a need for both types here. Everyone contributes in their way and no one way is better than another. All of our contributions are valuable. Let's please respect that!

Melody - Got it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Suzet*:
<strong> Also I think a repentant and remorseful FWS needs to be supported & praised for doing the right thing IN SPITE of withdrawal and feelings they may still have for the OP. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, there is nothing stopping you from supporting them. By all means, you should do so.

I want people to have the same experience I had when I came here. I found a group of people that understood what I was going through, and could tell me what I needed to do to get out of the mess I had created.

I hope to be that kind of help to at least one person through posting. (While my tag line might say only 4-5 posts, I have changed my name a few times after becoming angry at being "beaten up" or misunderstood)

I think we all are needed here. ML might appear a little too harsh to some, but to someone, she is exactly what they need. ML might think others are being too "wimpy" in their responses to some posters, but they, too, are what some need to hear. Some people will respond to being thrown right in, and having to "sink or swim". Others need more time...they need to wade in slowly. That doesn't mean that they all can't arrive at the same destination.

We all have talents that the Lord has given us. We are ALL called to use them. If we all only came here, got our help, and then left, who would help the new people when they came.

I owe something to this board. It has helped me. So I want to give back, by hopefully helping someone else.

Pretty simple, really.

clay

I give up. I was going to write the Great MB Post. After three starts, I realize that JL, WAT, NCWalker, and others have done a great job of posting from the BH point of view.

My big question is why? I always tried my best to be a good husband and father. Yet my XWW lied, cheated, and gave me the runaround from early 1965 until our divorce on 2 June 1981. Why did she do it? To this day, I don’t know. Why did I stay? Because of the children. The first two are mine; however, I am not the biodad of the third child.

I think the reason I return and read on the MB WebPages is to try to find out why she acted as she did. I see some posters writing that the affair is like an addiction. When it is over, the WSs write that they are hurting. Why are the WSs hurting? They are the ones that caused the hurt in the first place.

Why did WSs return to the BSs? I think it is for a free meal ticket.

As you can read, 23 years after she left us, I am still angry at my XWW. It also makes me appreciate my present wife more and more.

OK, all you WSs can hit me with 2x4s. However, if I can get some answers, I would appreciate it. I won’t contact XWW to ask as she might get the wrong idea. I am sure you all can understand that.

Be excellent to each other.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why are the WSs hurting? They are the ones that caused the hurt in the first place.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is exactly why we are hurting.

Onlywords

You are all great and brave people on this MB forum.

I just need to say that when I need some really tempered advice Melody,Believer, Octobergirl and Keepmvn4rwrd( where are you?)are posters that ALWAYS make me think and usually give me a different angle on what I believe to be the path towards salvation.

Thanks everyone

RAG

Just couldn't resist offering what is hopefully a gentle 2X4 regarding this statement:

"Why did WSs return to the BSs? I think it is for a free meal ticket."

I'm assuming this is aimed at women, and wanted to point out that is a very old-fashioned, sexist view! Women have always worked (paying jobs as well as unpaid domestic labor), and today more than ever are quite capable of paying for their own meal tickets!

Other than that, I also wanted to say that I don't know why your XWW acted like she did, and I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. Your anger is justified, but 23 years is a long time to dwell on the past. Have you ever been to IC? Maybe someone could help you find some answers that would help you to be able to get some relief.

God bless.

Rose55

wow....Don't know where to begin. I guess, to RAG, since he's right above, I know you said you stayed "because of the children" and things, even a short time ago 20 years ago, were very different, but, if I can humbly ask, really, "Why?" (And I know it should be about the children, but, what about *you*?)

To the original post...I guess you would consider me a WH...EA...before W found out it was getting to be somewhat inappropriate stage in some of our discussions and I was finally waking up finally--I had a wife I could be discussing these things with, damnit! (She very soon found out after my first few posts--still only a "baby" on the site, hasn't even been a month.)

My first objective when I was surfing one night was to find info out--something to turn a lighbulb on either way, on whether "it" (saving my marriage or not) was "worth it." Without getting into specifics again of my own sit, I was *completely* ostricized at first. Some of it, because of my own perspective. I've never backed down from a good debate, and that's what ark (thanks!) gave me.

"I would have to say that is at least 75% of the problem here...miscommunications."

I apologize--I'm not sure who said this, but, how @#$%ing true!!! But then again, this is 90% of the problem with *any* relationship.

So, why are we (yes--W posts/lurks too!) still here? There's alot of good people here, offering some good advice and principles (even though both of us don't agree with it all, we have to find out what works best for us); knowing that there *are* other couples in similar situations; and learning how to communicate again. That's it in a nutshell.


<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Now I (actually, we) have a question: I understand the concept of Plan A and the bottom-line principles. BUT, except in a few (that I know of and read about), why, why subject oneself to more pain, suffering, wasted years, etc. if one knows the marriage is over? I'm NOT talking about situations where there is hope. But, there's a fine line between giving it your all and knowing when to give it up. (Please don't tell me I'm still in the "fog."
Like I said, my wife posts here too--we've talked about it (communication <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) and we both (BW and WH alike) agree with that. (As an example, I don't remember her name, but this girl posted a letter she wanted to send to her BH. Poured her heart out and all. (Yes, there were a few things I didn't agree with, but nevertheless...) And she too was cut down to the quick. I just don't "get it" I suppose.

And the last thing I want to do on this board when I do post, is diminish anyone's feelings--I've done that too long to my wife and vice versa in our own ways. But it does seem to be done alot on these posts. (And that was *just* a generalization.)

<small>[ July 28, 2004, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

There is a huge difference between tough love and tough sh*t. I needed to learn some things in order to help myself. Being hit with a 2x4 on my way in the MB door wouldn't have done a blessed thing to help me get on the road to recovery. I see healthy and unhealthy attitudes on both the wayward and betrayed sides of the boards. I cringe when I see someone being scapegoated or treated disrespectfully. The term "2x4" has some pretty significant negative connotations. Some posters use the word in a "wake-up call" sort of way, but others swing away willy nilly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I give up. I was going to write the Great MB Post. After three starts, I realize that JL, WAT, NCWalker, and others have done a great job of posting from the BH point of view.

My question is why? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mine, too. Especially since the title of this thread is...

Wayward Spouses Only Please-why did you stay on MB?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Believer, I am a FWS but personally can’t relate to the way the question is phrased. IMO, “staying” on Marrriage Builders for a WS really is no different than for a BS. Many BSs cause their own recovery problems and get roundly 2 x 4ed for them just like the WSs. All are fair game on MB! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Is the board helpful to WSs? In my opinion there is more than a fair amount of mollycoddling going on as opposed to even two years ago. For those who think WSs get the short end now, OMG, you should have been around then and guess what? The “hard” stuff, in most cases shortened the recovery process. Now that’s what I call truly helpful!

I’m not saying there isn’t a place for encouragement, in fact anyone can look up my posts and see that I most always temper my statements with an eye for the positive. My pet peeve is when there is unkindness in a post and all the following posters act like nothing happened. That's low, in my book. So you see, I am not saying that the hard line is the only way to deal with FWS/WSs at all. (Of course, I am one myself! : <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

As was mentioned earlier there must be a balance but it really is up to the WS to take all information, whether “positive” or “negative” into account and move from there.

It is my observation that sometimes threads take on a distinct “personality”, in other words, if a succession of posters are all saying the same thing, the thread will proceed in that direction until a new observation is made that either 1. Upsets one poster or the entire bunch, resulting in arguments and accusations 2. Shuts the thread down entirely because no one knows what else to say. 3. It is ignored for whatever reason 4.Best case, allows for further discussion genuinely benefiting the thread author and those reading. I’m probably forgetting one other thing here but oh well.

Interestingly, it is ultimately the thread author who decides how to respond thus affecting the entire thread. ( Except in cases of threadjacking of course.) Anger, denial, blame shifting, fog talk ect. are part of the early WS mentality and if the WS persists in posting these thoughts despite correction , then there is a reason for the 2 x 4s to come out.

It is generally not the case for the 2 x 4 to be brought out in the very first few posts unless it is a flagrantly TOW type post but for the most part this rarely happens. More often there is a kind word from one or another of the welcome wagon type posters (bless you guys!) and the WS is off and running.

The BSs are not universally immune to 2 x 4s and I can think of more than a few who have stomped off in a huff because they didn’t like what they heard. Bottom line, this is a marriage building site and reqardless of being a WS or BS, if a poster is are not willing to take responsibility to make necessary changes in their own personal life they will probably not benefit or stay on MB.

Many/most (?) BS and WS first come to this site with erroneous ideas about marriage and/or infidelity but with the wealth of experience in marriage recovery and building on MB, it is apparent that it IS possible to overcome the effects of poor marital habits. I believe that on some deep level the recovered/recovering WSs recognize this and that is why they “stay” despite the fact that it’s not always easy. Then again, LIFE isn’t always easy but we are all in the same boat. And in the end, the board is only as helpful as any individual allows it to be. KB

It's time to move on.

These boards are becoming increasingly hostile to WS's, and they are of little use to many who desperately need help right now.

Just as the BS's constantly complain about us WS's and our wanting to re-write history, I grow tired of the constant cry-baby attitudes of many of the BS's here.

If I want the opinion of a BS, all I have to do is talk to my W. And I enjoy that a hell of a lot more than I enjoy coming here anymore. I especially won't miss those certain few who are simply trying to gain the coveted "Most Posts" award. They respond to everything and everyone they can, in pursuit of higher numbers. Their need to be here is all about themselves, and not at all about helping others.

The mods and the ownership at MB have received many complaints and requests about a WS only board; but they turn a deaf ear. If they are unwilling to listen to their "customers", then why should I continue to support them?

See ya,

Bob

"If they are unwilling to listen to their "customers", then why should I continue to support them?"

Are we supposed to be paying for this site? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Gosh, all this time I thought this forum was a GIFT from the Harley's to discuss Marriage Building and I haven't paid anything! I bet I have a huge bill! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

An Anonymous "customer"

For someone who said (along with my wife who also posts here, but not anymore), taht I'm not going to post anymore, I sure am posting alot! I feel the need to add another post in response to PB & NC.
PB: Why shouldn't the WS be treated hostile? It's all about choices, man. Did your BS put a guun to your head and say, "Bob, I'm really f#$%ed up right now. I don't tend to your needs. So do us both a favor and go f@#$ the s@#$ out of that coworker you've been trying tohide." OK...a little extreme, but so are your comments. Bottom line: the WS made the choice of doing what they did *REGARDLESS* of why. Which is my next point. The "why." That is where the marriage needs help. Yes, the BS has responsibility in it. (Unless the WS is a total immorale pr#$%/bi#$%.) Who ever said you "had to" use the Harley's advice or anybody who posts here advice as your personal bible to marriage recovery? But, there are alot of people on here who give good advice--and most of them, I've found, aren't even trying to "give" advice. Personally, what has worked for me, is thinking about what people are saying rather than reacting.
My next point: to some extent, I *do* agree with you that there are people on here just so enveloped in their own little worlds that they really shouldn't be on the site at all--they really do need professional help. (Don't we all?!?!?) But what community doesn't have those kind of people?

Finally, some of the things that attracted me to this site in the first place were: the volume of posts; the fact that it was developed by "know-hows" (or I sure hope so!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ); and the fact that I have yet to be asked to buy anything, or asked for a donation, no door charge or two drink minimum. I hid underneath my seat to watch a double-feature! (Those were the days, huh?)

What was that nursery rhyme that Andrew Dice Clay used to say about...Nevermind!

Oh, and P.S., I am "defined" as a WS.

<small>[ July 29, 2004, 02:17 AM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

Oh, I forgot....
NC---you forgot your change at the ticket booth! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LINY:
<strong> Why shouldn't the WS be treated hostile?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can’t believe what I have just read. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Why should a remorseful and repentant FORMER WS posting on these boards and trying to get help for themselves and their Marriages, NOT be treated with respect & dignity??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I can see why more & more FWS’s starting to leave these boards… It is because of HOSTILE posts like this why more & more FWS’s don’t feel welcome to post here anymore.

Suzet*: You missed my point and certainly had a hard time cutting your way through my sarcasm! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Like I edited, I *am* a WS myself. There is nothing more than I want than to be coddled, loved and understood. However, the WS has made a choice--free will--again for whatever reason--to become infidel with the BS. Bottom line. Granted, my post was harsh--it was meant to be because I'm still in "the fog" (yes, more sarcasm, I'm sorry. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) (And this is coming from someone who has every reason in the world to have strayed from my W (and only did so E--when I knew it was going in the direction of something I wouldn't have been able to conrol/live with/etc.) But still, it was my choice to shut down to my W and open up to my friend--when all along all I had to do was start communicating with my W.

Didn't mean to offend you (or really anybody,(especially when you replied so kindly to my W! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) Just wanted to use a 2 X 4, I suppose! (Yes, more sarcasm!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

LINY, I understand... Thanks for your clarifying post! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />