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I was wondering.... what your respose would look like if instead, I said... [B]"Madmax ...... PLEASE PLEASE reply! Are you mad at me? Did I say something to offend you? I NEED you Max, please please please!!!!!!!" [B] a firm, yet gentle( tone) response. I am unsure, what you are hoping to gain from me Pep. ( and wait for response) What follows would depend on your answer. Now... give Max a smooch. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Max
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Pep and Max, post reported to mods as rude and inflammatory.
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KiwiJ:
<strong> Pep and Max, post reported to mods as rude and inflammatory.
Jen </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good... follow your conscience KiwiJ. That's what it's all about.
Pep
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Pep and Max, post reported to mods as rude and inflammatory.
Can you explain your motive behind this response Kiwi? Im at a loss to answering a simple question.
then ( after thought)...If its me asking for a smooch...well hell its my birthday...
Max
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Hey 2l: Fat Albert????? Still found a way to get those "2"s in there, though!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
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I absolutely agree with the initiating post BUT I would say that the barefoot doctors on this board have literally saved my life during the 1st 2 weeks since D-day. I've had no advice contrary to MB principles I read in in SAA and the examples from real life have been uplifting. In the UK it is difficult to find good MC, until i can this MB is a great help.
Thanks all {{{mb}}}
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Originally posted by Bob Pure:
I absolutely agree with the initiating post BUT I would say that the barefoot doctors on this board have literally saved my life during the 1st 2 weeks since D-day.
Why did you say "literally saved my life"? Were you going to end your life?
Myself, I think of cyber talk as "virtual" communication rather than "literal".
Bob Pure.... this site is like a round floating life saver ring ...... it can hold you up for a little while, treading water, but you'll need more help than is available from cyber suggestions from strangers.
Pep
<small>[ August 01, 2004, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>
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Pep, yes I was considering taking my own life last week. Still do when the night is mine alone.
I will try to find pro counselling when I am recommended one.
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I jusr reread this thread.... Darn SS! You beat me to it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> And I'm continuing to scraych my head.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Bob: It's a delicate balancing act. Pep had a great post and summed it up nicely. I'm mainly a lurker trying that balancing act myself, searching through the fog, trying once again to use my wife as the lighthouse as she is... I've followed your story since you first posted...reread everything you wrote to this point...see how far you've come--even in this short amount of time!!!! Yes--lots of work ahead (me too--same river, different boat). This is a great board to see that "You're not alone." It's a great board to vent. It's a great board to escape for a little bit, with others in similar situations. And, yes, kiwi, it's even a great place to have a little fun. (Maybe I missed sumthin! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) Keep up with getting it out! I've been a stuffer for--well, probably my whole life and, well, I actually envy you. Please, please remember (and I'm glad the meds are helping): "Suicide is a permanent solution to a **TEMPORARY** problem." Kepp your head up, Bob. *YOU* are worth it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
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Bob.... do you go to a church or a synagogue?
One can generally find emergency help in places like that.
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This post is addressed to JL ..... Dear JL, You said; "However, I was and am very reluctant to hurt her as she was clearly in a very sensitive state."What do you mean JL? More sensitive than anyone else here? Less deserving of radical honesty? Is this possibly what you mean? .... "hurt her" with radical honesty? Or did you mean something else? If a newbie WS comes to MB and says this: "I don't want to hurt my spouse with the truth." How do you usually answer? Don't you generally discuss radical honesty as a necessary component to a real marriage? Don't you usually discuss how withholding honesty hurts the relationship? I do understand sensitivity. I was wondering , do you think sensitivity can ever be used as a smokescreen? Used as a weapon of conflict avoidance? Do you think if one's spouse has great sensitivity toward criticism, do you think that might devastate a marriage, perhaps even more than an affair? JL..... and finally, If I find myself editing out part of my thoughts to you because your feelings might be hurt .... I think that is something I do for myself .... not for you. That would be less respectful of you, the listener..... Just as it is less respectful for the WS to edit truth from the BS.... One must trust the listener to find their way around unpleasantness... And not rely on others to pretend there is no unpleasantness... Holding on to myself right now JL.... waiting for your thoughts. Smack me with radical honesty JL.... that's the only way I know you respect me. Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
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This is as good a place to put my thoughts on this board as any. Here goes.... Pep, you said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Interesting thing ... giving and receiving internet advice. Can be fun Can be challenging Can stimulate one's thinking / debating /communicating skills Can provoke self-awareness Can provoke emotional responses Can be manipulative Can be 100% phoney Can be 100% authentic Can be overly time-consuming and much much more..... Some pitfalls.... Relying on message board amateurs while avoiding real-life therapy Loss of subtle non-verbal parts of communication Addiction to the feedback </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First nine points, all spot on. Regarding the pitfalls, those three points are right on the money too. Feelings: Are one of those things that are different for everyone, though at the same time can be so similar for many. Many times we come looking for someone to sympathize with us or to find someone that is going through what we're going through, to help us through those hard spots. Originally, I came the this site for advice on what to do (i.e. help for my response on D-day). I then ordered the books, then read the books. Then as I had more questions, I "found" the discussion forum (about 1-2 months post D-Day). Lurked for awhile before posting. First few posts were of the thread jacking type (trying to get my help on someone else's thread). Then one of the 'older' members copied my question to a new separate thread. Got my help, looked for clarification, finally worked through some of the bigger issues and then moved on to 'helping' other newer members. I'm not saying I'm like or different from everyone else, but one thing I've learned over the past few weeks is that I'm not a professional counselor, nor do I wish to become one. I've enjoyed helping people when I can. When I've made things worse (or at least where it seemed that way to me), it's made me feel bad. Kind of like reeling in my posts. I've come to the conclusion for me, that I will post when it helps me. If it helps someone else, more power to them. Kind of selfish, yes, but that's ok. (Doesn't selfishness sort of fall somewhere in the first nine posts?) RH
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband: <strong> madmax .... (tapping my toe rapidly) ..... I'm waitingggggggggg <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I was wondering.... what your respose would look like if instead, I said... "Madmax ...... PLEASE PLEASE reply!
Are you mad at me? Did I say something to offend you?
I NEED you Max, please please please!!!!!!!" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Are you feeling enough strokes to speak gently to me now? You said you wanted me, even tho ima girl and married to boot! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by madmax: <strong> I was wondering.... what your respose would look like if instead, I said... "Madmax ...... PLEASE PLEASE reply! Are you mad at me? Did I say something to offend you? I NEED you Max, please please please!!!!!!!" a firm, yet gentle( tone) response. I am unsure, what you are hoping to gain from me Pep. ( and wait for response) What follows would depend on your answer. Now... give Max a smooch. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Max </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can clearly see why these two posts above were reported to the moderators as rude & inflammatory. Thanks KiwiJ… Any person who has followed Broken Vessel’s threads and especially the thread “Appropriate help please”, will see that Pep and Madmax was indirectly but very clearly referring to BV’s post to JL... That they were joking and made fun about her in a very insensitive and disrespectful way. However, Pep and Madmax was clever enough to do this in a subtle way by not mentioning any names… Probably this is the reason why everyone is afraid to say something (except KiwiJ) because it will be SO easy for Pep and Madmax to just say innocently: ”Well, it’s only your personal observation & interpretation…” Pep and Madmac, it was very ‘clever’ of both of you to joke and make fun of someone else’s post so obviously but yet in such a way that no one felt safe to say a word about it untill now… Further I’ve notice that Pep has send the following post on THIS thread, while it was suppose to be a response to JL on BV’s thread “Appropriate help please”: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband: <strong> This post is addressed to JL ..... Dear JL, You said; "However, I was and am very reluctant to hurt her as she was clearly in a very sensitive state."What do you mean JL? More sensitive than anyone else here? Less deserving of radical honesty? Is this possibly what you mean? .... "hurt her" with radical honesty? Or did you mean something else? If a newbie WS comes to MB and says this: "I don't want to hurt my spouse with the truth." How do you usually answer? Don't you generally discuss radical honesty as a necessary component to a real marriage? Don't you usually discuss how withholding honesty hurts the relationship? I do understand sensitivity. I was wondering , do you think sensitivity can ever be used as a smokescreen? Used as a weapon of conflict avoidance? Do you think if one's spouse has great sensitivity toward criticism, do you think that might devastate a marriage, perhaps even more than an affair? JL..... and finally, If I find myself editing out part of my thoughts to you because your feelings might be hurt .... I think that is something I do for myself .... not for you. That would be less respectful of you, the listener..... Just as it is less respectful for the WS to edit truth from the BS.... One must trust the listener to find their way around unpleasantness... And not rely on others to pretend there is no unpleasantness... Holding on to myself right now JL.... waiting for your thoughts. Smack me with radical honesty JL.... that's the only way I know you respect me. Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting that Pep has decided to respond to JL on THIS thread and to made the discussion of BV part of THIS topic… Or maybe it was just a “oops” or co-incidence… <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <small>[ August 02, 2004, 04:17 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>
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Pep and Max,
I would like to know what you're trying to "prove" here. What is the motivation behind this?
I hope you are not using someone else's "sensitivity" as a way to absolve yourself of "responsibility" ...I have seen this happen too many times in my life to think that is not a possibility here as well.
I thought that "radical honesty" had more to do with being open and honest about your OWN feelings rather than pointing out "character flaws" in others and /or "criticism"??????
I also don't understand why you are still here "defending" yourself...why the need?
Onlywords
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Pep and Madmax, I want to add the following to my previous post: Since BV has started to became part of the discussion on THIS thread by Pep’s post to JL, I want to say the following to BOTH of you (I’ve already said it to Pep on the thread “Appropriate help please”): Although I understand the original concern of you that BV might have started to became dependant on JL (which was not necessarily a bad thing in the current circumstances - I have my own personal reasons for that and I've already discussed that on BV's thread), it was however VERY absurd, inappropriate and disrespectful towards Broken Vessel to put her interactions with Just Learning (on this OPEN discussion forum where BV have also shared all the posts OPENLY with her H and where her H also gain help from JL), in the SAME category as a person who are in the beginning of an affair… Even the thought and suggestion of such a thing was TOTALLY inappropriate, disrespectful & disappointing. I wonder how you would react and if the two of you would make the same inappropriate & disrespectful suggestions, assumptions & accusations about BV’s interactions and call out for help from JL if she was a BETRAYED spouse in stead of a FORMER wayward spouse… I doubt that... I remember how some BW’s MANY times in the past continuously and repetitively called out help from a specific BH on the In Recovery board, but no one ever complained or said anything about that… <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> An ‘inappropriate’ or ’unhealthy’ relationship can even happen to a BETRAYED spouse you know… <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Also, many other woman in the past called out for help from JL and one poster specifically did so even MUCH MORE than BV…why didn’t you (or anyone else) complained or said something about it then??????????????) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> O yes Pep, there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between RADICAL HONESTY and DISRESPECTFULLNESS & INSENSITIVity... especially if a person is in a very sensitive & vulnerable state... It IS possible to be radical honest WITHOUT being disrespectful & insensitive. There is something as being TACTFULL, you know? Being hard & tough help for SOME people but certainly not for EVERYONE, especially NOT if they are in a very sensitive & vulnerable state and ALREADY feel bad about themselves... This causes epople like BV to leave these boards and not feeling safe to post here anymore... It IS possible to be RADICAL HONEST in a CARING & SENISITVE way... Please think about that. Pep, to be honest - I don't think you understand sensitivity AT ALL... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It's a good thing if you don't worry what other people think about you, but if it means becoming INSENSITIVE & IGNORANT towards the feelings of other people and HURTING them in the process, it is not good anymore. <small>[ August 02, 2004, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Suzet*: <strong> Max I can clearly see why these two posts above were reported to the moderators as rude & inflammatory. Thanks KiwiJ… Any person who has followed Broken Vessel’s threads and especially the thread “Appropriate help please”, will see that Pep and Madmax was indirectly but very clearly referring to BV’s post to JL... That they were joking and made fun about her in a very insensitive and disrespectful way. However, Pep and Madmax was clever enough to do this in a subtle way by not mentioning any names… Probably this is the reason why everyone is afraid to say something (except KiwiJ) because it will be SO easy for Pep and Madmax to just say innocently: ”Well, it’s only your personal observation & interpretation…” </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh dear, did you really say that?? Maybe Pep could say what you told me when you did this exact same thing, Suzet? You claimed innocence because you didn't mention names. Suzet, Suzet, Suzet, Suzet........ Are you really in a position to criticize Pep for doing the exact same thing that you do? And while Pep simply quoted BV, you took it a step further, didn't you? You quoted and then CONDEMNED and cried "foul" when I responded for "invading your private thread." You were admonished by the mods for starting up threads to talk about ME behind my back and had your threads closed down. See Suzet, your righteous indignation would be soooooo much more effective if we hadn't seen you do the very same things except in a much nastier way. Unfortunately, people have long memories around here. Surely you didn't think you could pull this off? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Very bad form, Suzet. <small>[ August 02, 2004, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>
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Suzet wrote: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FWW & OLD MEMBER (since Jan 03)
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just an unrelated question. I have always been curious about why you advertise that you are old? How old are you exactly? You don't usually see older people, especially women, advertise this fact. I am 47, are you older than that?
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am 47, are you older than that? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Hi Mel, soon to be 49 here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I think she must be referring to the fact that sometime in the past she re-registered...maybe not her age. ...and she is an OLDER MB member than the registration date shows... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Susan <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Susan: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am 47, are you older than that? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Hi Mel, soon to be 49 here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I think she must be referring to the fact that sometime in the past she re-registered...maybe not her age. ...and she is an OLDER MB member than the registration date shows... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Susan <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Susan, I love ya! Someone older than me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Maybe she just wants to be considered an "old member??" Of course, I wouldn't consider someone who registered here just LAST YEAR an "old member," would you? I would consider K, you, peppermint to be "old members." Oh well..
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ML,
Ok then, someone called Suzette on something (I wasn't around maybe? Don't know anything about that), and now she is calling someone else out on the same thing....what is wrong with that? Maybe Suzette learned something from what happened to her and is trying to hold others accountable as well? Geez, this is ridiculous.
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