Sal,
how in the world did you do Plan A for 9 or so months? It has been 1.5 for me and I am dead and still dying. You have strength, more than me.

I am so afraid of this. I know that she cannot hurt me more, and I do not think she would hurt herself or the kids, but I am still scared.

Part of me may just not want to hurt her, and part of me thinks that if I do this, she will just leave and that still scares me. I can't help but wonder if telling them will make it worse. Not sure how it could, but I wonder.

Since I do want the M to work, doing things that make her mad goes against that. I am just torn inside.

My plan so far is to try to find out if OM will be home after WW goes to work. If I can confirm where he is, I should do the following:

Convince my WW that I need her car (it has the car seats in it, mine does not) for something. I usually do not take the kids anyplace when I have them, so this will be out of the ordinary. I think I can sell it, but it may tip her off. Risk I think I have to take.

Drop the kids off at my in-laws, or a friends house. This will be tough because I lean on my in-laws quite a bit. I have no friends, but maybe my sister can help????

Drive over there with a wedding picture and see what happens

Jeez, it does not look so hard in print.

If I cannot confirm his location, I may call with caller ID blocked and ask for him. If he answers or is there, I am screwed. He will instantly suspect something is afoul and tell WW. My mother did about the same thing when they found out, called his work and asked for a spelling of his name. He answered and told them. She has told me that I could call and talk to him, but I have not yet done so.

I need to think about what to do if he is home. I do not think I can take time away from work Friday to go over there when they are at the U-sound. Any ideas? I am not good at lying, unless it is to protect myself.

Is this a plan or am I making the situation worse?

Every one tells me to tell the OM family, even if it is love busting. Even if it will hurt.

Any reason not to tell?

I cannot believe how pathetic I sound. I feel like such a loser.

My friend

you can do this. All of us have a strength inside that we just don't know exists till we have to tap into it. I'm nothing special. There are people here who have done plan A for 2 years!

Now I don't think the Harleys will recommend that length, but it goes to show what can be done. If I'm totally honest I suppose the 'quality' of my plan A drifted after about 4/5 months. At that stage I decided I had enough of being walked on and made some decisions that may/may not have been LB-ers - there were conflicting views on here about my course of action. I stopped facilating her A in any way - I would refuse to babysit and thwart her attempts to go out - I would make her sort something out rather than depend on me.

Telling them will not 'make it worse' - your WW may well hit the roof - mine did. But guess what - that means success. I just smiled at her and said nothing while she went mental - very satisfying ;-)
Remember the opposite of caring is apathy not anger. If she gets angry about something you have done chances are it was something that pricked the balloon of the A. Thats a good thing!

Read the Harley stuff - remember that something that makes her angry is not necessarily a LB - a LB is something that goes against the marriage vows (including the implicit ones about meeting emotional needs etc). Anyhow who cares about a 'LB' if it saves the marriage?

Remember who you are fighting - the alien - not your former wife. Exorcise the alien and your wife can return. Plan A your wife and f*&k that alien over!

Now - why do you want to take the kids with you - leave them with WW! If necessary, yes enlist the help of your sister. There is no reason why it should tip her off anyhow - tell her you are taking them out to the park, for an ice-cream, to visit someone, whatever. Doesn't matter. Get your sister involved anyhow - you need all the help and support you can get at this time. Family may be the only ones you can truly trust.

Bring more than the wedding photo - have your speech prepared and have answers to possible questions prepared - be alive to the (small) possibility that WW and OM may have bad-mouthed you. What might they say? Think and prepare your defence. Bring a recent happy photo too if you have one - any text messages or notes, birthday cards etc from WW - show that she did love you till this A.

Next - stop being negative - remember you are in control now. So what if he answers the phone! Does he know you? How will he know who is there.
Why not try something like - we'll assume his name is Michael (seems like an appropriate name for a horse's [censored] ;-) ).
Call and ask to speak to Michael (use caller ID blocking). If he says "speaking", then say "Hi, this is Jimmy Smith from Acme Rodent control calling about your yearly checkup" etc. When he protests ask if he is Michael Kowzalski...etc... you get the idea. "Oh sorry, buddy - must have the wrong number"

Now - work. Have you talked to your boss about what is happening? Do so. It'll get you more support and probably open lots of doors timewise etc.

No there is no reason not to tell. Trust me. I too tried to find reasons - the only one is to save yourself the 'conflict'. That isn't good enough. And you don't even know OM's family - I did. I cared that I might lose a friend because of it. You don't have that problem. Whats the worst case scenario - some stranger thinks you are a fruit loop? Well those who matter know better.

You don't sound pathetic and you aren't a loser. This sucks and its hard. But you have the strength and you can do it. Think of your kids - you want to look them in the eye in 20 years and say yeah - maybe I could have done XYZ to keep MOM and I together? Nope - you want to be able to tell them of the love you had and the fight you fought to keep it. Do it right and your WW should be there to confirm your good work. Even if not, then you can still look those kids in the eye and say I did all I could.

canthishelp,

Let's see. She sees OM every night while you take care of the kids. She as explained that you WILL NOT be going to the Dr. visits I presume OM will. You will NOT be in the delivery room, the child will have OM's last name,and OH she wants to make sure YOU take care of the kids at least as much as she does.

Have I missed anything?

Let me ask are you going to babysit OM's child while they go on vacation, or out for the night? Are you going to allow OM to babysit your children?

Are you going to allow him in YOUR house to visit the baby?

CTH, you are missing something very serious here. If you are are worried about bothering your WW and OM by telling his family they are going to be grandparents, then you don't seem to understand what a real fight will be. Consider the questions and issues I just brought up, those are going to be fights unless you are going to be OM's nanny.

Telling his parents is NOTHING compared to what is coming. Who cares if WW is mad, is she going to leave you? No, you are the only one making any money. You are the father that could take custody away from her with the children, after all you can put them in day care just as easily as she can, and you have the advantage of NOT knocking holes in the wall or an OM who lives at home.

It is time you practiced dealing with this face on, because if you don't, they will run right over you. Further, I am of the opinion that while you are a very very kind guy to give her another chance, she views you as weak and will continue to run over you until you stand up and start doing the right thing.

What is the right thing? If you want this marriage you WILL do everything you can to end this affair or bring it into the light of day so that it will end. You WILL start to establish that your W and OM will not make the rules for your life.

CTH, it is time. It is really time NOW. You have a lot less to fear than you think, and this is NOTHING compared to what is coming. Time to flex those internal muscles and start doing what is right. NOT what your W thinks is right. Good grief, who would listen to a woman like that? Seriously, someone has to have some good sense in this family and YOU are the someone.

Do it, and do it today.

God Bless,

JL

CTH

good advice from just learning there

a little less 'diplomatic' than I might have been <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> but no less vaulable for that!

Well, thank you for the frank advice. I could care less about diplomacy. I have to believe that the OM family knows already. If not, the time is coming. I spoke to my lawyer about my situation, he recommended involving as few people as possible. He is pro-mariage (the only one I spoke to that did not tell me to leave).

I expect to be flamed for what I am about to say, but I am going to try a different tactic first. I really want to talk to my MC before I speak to the family. Call me crazy (or weak or a loser or pathetic or whatever) but his advice has been very helpful so far and I trust him. I will do what he recommends. I expect to hear the same advice that I have been getting here. Don't give up on me because I am weak.

My new plan is to let her leave. I believe she wants to. This will do a few things for me.
One, I will become the primary care giver to the kids, if custady becomes an issue, I will have an edge.
Two: Her parents, brother and friends are so disgusted with her that I do not think any of them will let her move in with them. That should mean she is stuck with the OM. This may blow up in my face, but I think if she sees what she is giving up, she will miss it.

I am sorry that I have asked for advice and am not heeding it. This journey has been so painful I expect that I am making quite a few wrong decisions. I know that Melody said:
"If you aren't willing to do anything to help yourself because you are afraid of her, then I can't think of a thing I can suggest. "

I still have fear. It is killing me, but I need to be sure before I act. I am sure that she should be out of our house. I do have some strength left.

Friday we should find out about the OC and if the P is OK or not. Either way, I am going to tell her Saturday (w/ the MC) that she can go.

It may be to late to get any support from the OM's family, but maybe not. I will tell them when she is gone. (I know it sounds like I am hiding, and I am still scared and your right)

BTW, the horses [censored]' name is Ron. So is mine. Don't ya love the little things? At least she never had to worry about yelling the wrong name during sex or talking in her sleep. My WW, she is a crafty one.

Thanks again for the advice. I hope to find out by 12:00 noon Friday about the P. I should be able to update than.

I am gonna lay off the sleeping pills tonight and see how I do.

You cannot help those that will not help themself. I know this and I believe it. I will help myself.

CTH

remember that the lawyer has to advise you about what is best in a legal sense, not what is necessarily best for your marriage - they may not always co-incide.
Telling the truth isn't against any law - what your lawyer is probably wary of, is that your WW will paint you as a troublemaker and vindictive person who spreads gossip (albeit true). That is not what any of us are advocating. I, and others, want you to put the point of the compass down at the A between WW and OM and draw a SMALL circle around that of the people that can influence them and the A. That circle stops when people don't have any more influence.
Trust me - explain it like that to your lawyer - it is designed to help the marriage not hurt your WW - and he won't have a problem.

Talk to your MC by all means - that is only another couple of days - but explain it to him as something you want to do and why. If he is pro it - then go for it - ASAP. If not, discuss it in detail and report back here and let us reply to you. BTW, if you haven't already, get the Harley books - they are an easy read and you can be through them in a day or two.

'let her' leave? Is that like 'letting her' have an A? She will do what she wants - you focus on what you can control. You do your plan A.
The point you make about the kids and her family are all correct - this will help you.

Who cares if it is too late to get support from OM's family - you don't lose anything. But act soon. Let me give you a hypothetical. Lets say OM's family own another property and let OM move in there (or maybe just assist him financially) before they know about the A. They can't undo that easily. Wouldn't you rather undermine it early?

Fear is healthy - but use it to focus your energy on your plan - refine, revise and update it.
Don't let it paralyse you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by canthishelp:
<strong> Well, thank you for the frank advice. I could care less about diplomacy. I have to believe that the OM family knows already. If not, the time is coming. I spoke to my lawyer about my situation, he recommended involving as few people as possible. He is pro-mariage (the only one I spoke to that did not tell me to leave).

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">cant, Harley is a TRAINED marriage counselor who specializes in infidelity. He has a very high success rate and guess what he recommends? EXPOSURE. He told one man here to "do everything short of taking out a billboard."

There is absolutely NO GOOD reason for you not to tell his mother and sister. To not do it is only ENABLING the affair to continue because you are helping them keep them their secret.

You are contributing to you and your children's own demise by helping them hide it. You are your own enemy.

The affair cannot survive long when you expose it to the light of day. Can't, you have to be doing everything in your power to END the affair. Your fear is not a valid excuse. What are you afraid of?

Sal,
Thanks again for the advice. I hope to talk to my MC today. I will let you know how it goes, no later than Saturday evening.

I said 'let her leave', becasue she has wanted to on 2 previous occasions and I did not let her. The third time (after I found out about the A) I let her. Then she came back. And yes, I am letter her have the A. I could take extreme measures and stop her. I will not.

I do have the 'surviving and affair' book. It is helpful, but since my WW is still having the A, I am stuck. I read up through plan B, but I am not there yet. My WW has read parts of it, but I do not think she thinks there is much chance of our M working, so she is ignoring it.

I may have taken what my lawyer said out of context regarding contact with the OM family. I am still scared and want to discuss this with a qualified person before I contact them.

Please keep the suggestions coming, I need all the help I can get.

Thanks again.

CTH

stop talking about 'letting' her do anything - she will do what she will do.
Similarly she can go when she wants - you can't stop her - short of physically locking her up.

Why do you think she came back?

While she is there you can plan A - it is perfect. Harley covers it all. Plan A is much harder if she has moved out as you have less opportunity. The only advantage to it (her moving out) is that it can be a harsh dose of reality.

Harley, and to my knowledge, the vast majority of pro-marriage counsellors will not just recommend exposure, they will virtually insist on it. Do you think they would do that if there were major legal risks. Trust me, once you explain to your lawyer that it is a carefully chosen and considered action that maximises the chance of saving the marriage he will be fine with it. Go ask him. Pick up the phone. Do it now.

Stop looking for excuses. We can offer advice, but only you can help yourself. Remember that your kids have lost one pillar of parenthood to the aliens right now. Don't let them lose another to cowardice.

Sorry Mel, somehow I did not see your post when I originally replied.

I do not know what I am afraid of. Fear has paralized from doing many things in my life. It is a defect of my psyche that has held me back most of my life. I think root cause was my environment, my mom was a bit wacky - heavy handed for no real reason. But I know that occasionlly I break free from its chains and have done some amazing things.

I know I need to do this thing, but I wallow in the soup that is a victim's life blood. I will try soon.

I know that I am my own enemy at this point. I do not where to get the strength.

I always liked the Nike ads that said 'just do it'. It really is that simple. Why can't I?

Cant,

You said you have a plan </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My new plan is to let her leave. I believe she wants to. This will do a few things for me.
One, I will become the primary care giver to the kids, if custady becomes an issue, I will have an edge.
Two: Her parents, brother and friends are so disgusted with her that I do not think any of them will let her move in with them. That should mean she is stuck with the OM. This may blow up in my face, but I think if she sees what she is giving up, she will miss it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It sounds good to me, if she will go. But, you need to expose this affair.

Also, while you have many fears, who doesn't in these types of situations, you need to realize that YOUR fear can and will hurt YOUR children. Your failure to act is guarenteeing that they will be in the midst of a much bigger mess. The sooner you sort this out, the better for them, and frankly given your W's feelings about things, I think the twins would be much better off with you. There is no evidence that OM is up to the task, but he will get to find out soon with the night feedings and all.

My point, expose this. But, also listen to your counselor and lawyer. You are playing this to win Can't and if the marriage cannot win, at least you and the children should end up in the best possible situation. Right now that does not look as likely as it should.

Good luck with all of this, you are in a very very tough situation. There are no clear clean ways to do this unless you decided to abandon your twins and W and move to another country. That solution is not really viable but it is a nice pipedream. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hang in there and good luck with the events of the day.

God Bless,

JL