Some of you may have seen my earlier post after 3 years off the board. H's A that I thought was over 4 years ago resurfaced for 2 weeks. Initially, H told me it was a fluke, nothing emotionally serious, and that he had learned his lesson about her once and for all - it was over, he was truly recommitted to me and would see a counselor.

Less than a week later, he admits something to the affect that:

a)they are still in love
or
b)they fell back in love

Whatever. Keep in mind that, she got married 2 years ago herself, but to the man she cheated on with my H 5 years ago. She has been trying to get pregnant for a while and just had surgery to facilitate that goal.

Evidently she "doesn't want my H to leave me for her", and has decided to stay with her H - her main goal is to get pregnant.

Now it becomes clear to me that my H was poised to leave me and our two kids for her at the end of their two week fling. He had looked at apartments near by. As I posted earlier, we had what I thought was full recovery - very loving, happy relationship. He is a great dad and the kids adore him. We had our disagreements but nothing ugly or unsolvable. I thought our life together was just what it should be, felt safe and secure.

Now all that is upside down. H says he will see a counselor as promised, but now so that he can decide:

1) whether to stay with me and the kids and find out how to irradicate his feelings for her.
2) whether to leave and pursue her
3) whether to leave and be a single guy

He also says that one way or another, he never wants to hurt me like this again.

OW has many negative qualities that he freely admits to - manipulative, self centered, emotionally immature, vindictive, mean spirited. In fact he has also admited that this whole situation could be revenge motivated, as 5 years ago she left her then boyfriend, now H, to wait for my H to leave me and he didn't. I have heard from others that she has not been faithful to her H since their marriage. A woman who used to be a good friend of hers told me that OW is "the most fun person you would ever want to be around, but in her heart she only cares about herself". When I ask my H how he thinks he could be happy with this woman, he says that if they were together, these negative qualities would be "fixed", that her H can't control her, but my H could if he was with her.

My H has had a vasectomy and says he does not want another family. But I am sure he has considered reversing his operation since this is what OW wants.

My H seems to be back in the fog worse than ever. He seems to have no concept of how he would deal with losing me and the kids if he left to be with her. I know that he loves me, loves our family life, and I don't think he is capable of facing the reality of life without us, since he still has us. Making him leave while he makes up his mind would certainly facilitate that reality, but I don't want him to leave just to teach him a lesson, which I am hoping he will learn through counseling. I simply do not want to go through that pain and put my kids through that pain unless it is the final, inevitable, last resort.

We have both discussed that we don't want to stay together "for the kids sake" only. But doesn't that apply when the marriage has totally broken down, there is no love left, things are ugly or abusive? That is not the case with us. Even since all this has hit the fan, we are still loving, affectionate, having good sex, having a good family life - had a great family vacation last week, planning a birthday party for our 10 year old, kidding around and being the happy, loving couple that we have always been. This is the reality that we have been livng for the past 4 years, and before the year long A, the 8 years before that. This happy loving couple/family mode still seems to be the reality that we operate in, at least on the surface. This crisis has actually made us even more loving and kind to each other - I guess the reality that we may not have this for much longer is making us make the most of the time we have left together, if separating is what this is coming to.

I know that I should probably just tell him to leave until he makes up his mind - but he doesn't want to leave, and I don't want him to leave. I simply cannot picture him moving out, although I am trying to prepare myself for this option. I am seeing a counselor myself this week, and plan to see an attorney too, just to prepare myself for the worst.

My emotions are a true roller coaster - complete dispair and misery, to feeling strong about myself surving alone, to feeling that we can still work this out and live happily everafter, to sort of a "Stepford Wives" emotional void where my brain just freezes up. I hope the counseling will help me with this emotional crisis.

H is on a brief business trip this week. Last night on the phone I told him that I don't want him to stay with me just because OW is unavailable, that I deserve to have a husband who loves me and only me and is totally devoted to me. He protested and said that he HAS been totally devoted to me, I think he meant that he has been faithful since the A and up until now. I have told him that him seeing a counselor and figuring out his demons is our only hope. The last thing I said was - "why is she calling the shots?" Whys is HER decision (to leave to be with my H or stay with her H) making the difference between happiness or dispair for her H, my H, me and our kids? He simply said that is not the case and hung up.

He called me later and apologized, said I had made some valid points and he respected me for speaking my mind. But also that when he had called me, was feeling especially down and hopeless about himself. I have told him that I know we will be OK one way or another. I have also told him that I am willing to do joint counseling and to work on any issues where I can improve as a wife and partner. I have also told him that this is a major opportunity for him to turn his life around one way or another, get some good counseling and figure out why he is willing to throw his whole life away on a romantic fantasy with someone he has only known on a part time, sneaky basis. Their relationship has never been a "real" relationship, but then again, the mere existance of the relationship and what he feels for her is also reality for him right now.

I know this stuff happens all the time. H (or W)gets restless, falls for another woman, leaves his wife and family and starts over. But I also believe that we truly have something special, have built a great life together and this is worth fighting for, but only if he recommits to our marriage, gets some help.

I also told him that he cannot give up on himself, or think that he is a hopeless case.
I also pointed out that just because he slipped back into the A after 4 years, that this does NOT mean that what he has with OW is "true love". I don't know. First step in getting on with our lives is for him to see a counselor. Then he needs to be willing to be brutally honest about himself and his desires, and be willing to listen to brutal honesty from the counselor. And maybe he will discover that he really doesn't love me or really doesn't want to be married.

H came from a broken home and his childhood was very unstable. He has the secure and loving family with me and the kids that he never had himself. This is reality. The other reality is that he is considering throwing it all away.

I guess the bottom line is that as individuals and as a couple, are in a crisis mode. The kids know something is going on, but then they see us hugging or cuddling and kidding around with each other and are reassured. I hate to see their hearts broken by a separation/divorce. So what is reality ? We are so very capable of not just acting like, but being a loving couple, a loving family. But yet we are broken, at least temporarily, by the reality of this infidelity and my H's feelings for OW.

This has been much too long a post, but I needed to vent and get some of this dispair and anguish out. My post name has been "Everhopeful" for 5 years now, and I guess that still describes my state of mind, although I wonder if I am just kidding myself about this marriage ever being real and secure, and if it is doomed to end, if I will ever be happy again.

Signing off for now. Thanks for listening

Hi Everhopeful,

I was sorry to read your post. This had to be a shock to you since you were living a successful recovery.

Your situation again proves the idea that the WS and OP never have contact again...for the rest of their lives.

The OW in my H's last A pretty much confirmed the same thing. They had an A about ten/twelve years ago during H's first M. The OW ended it saying that she belonged where she was and wasn't going to do this (A) anymore. It was a long distance A. H and OW continued to contact each other as *just friends* after the A ended. A work situation in 11/02 - 12/02 caused them to begin calling/emailing from a few times per year to daily all of a sudden. My H created a business trip to see her in 2/03. OW told me that when she saw my H, "all of her feelings for him from before just came rushing back to her". She was *in-love* again.

That could be what your H is experiencing...old A fantasy feelings that just came up to the surface.

It sounds like your M is solid and that you guys should be able to get through this setback.

I'm sure others will post some encouragement and advice.

Good luck and take care.

sss

EH,

What you need to do is pick up the phone and make an appointment for you to talk with Steve Harley.

I KNOW in my gut that he can make all the difference in the success of your marriage.

It is uncanny his ability to sort through all the confusion and hone in on what YOU need to do 1st, 2nd, 3rd steps and so on.

I agree your husband needs IC. Seems like MLC or something "self-destructive" that allows him to consider a dysfunctional life with his OW.

Call SH for you, for your children, for your family live you care so much about. He'll guide you on what to do, and even more importantly what NOT to do. I truly believe that in your situation he can be the difference between success and failure.

There are no guarantees, however - by choosing SH for coaching it will go along way towards knowing you did everything you could to save your marriage and family life. Just one coaching session will let you know if you need to continue coaching with him; SH's is particularily kind but direct with WS. Hopefully your H will want to coach with him as well. Let us know how you're doing. CSue

Also EH,

Coaching with SH is not a replacement for IC. That's where coaching is different than counseling.

In a sense SH won't care about digging deeply into personal issues that contributes to who we are today. Instead he will help you and your husband make individualized special plans to put your marriage back together while your H is sorting through his childhood/personal demons with an IC.

You know the anquish you feel. After my 1st coaching with SH I felt HUGE relief. Relaxing for the 1st time since my d-day, knowing that SH would coach my H and I safely through recovery. It wasn't easy, and SH will give homework assignments between sessions - but it felt so good to take the right steps forward, avoiding the counter-intuitive landmines that are everywhere in recovery.

His sessions are not "cookie-cutter" stuff you read here on MB. In fact although it helped to be familiar with the concepts, terminology and such as you read on MB - most of what he coached was so individualized that it was almost foreign to what I see here.

I also appreciated not feeling like I had to educate my H anymore. In fact SH had to remind me a few times that any attempts at coaching my H would only set us back. I needed to stick to my plan for recovery, and leave my H's recovery to he and SH. What a relief it was for me to focus on me, doing positive things to help our marriage.

I think's it's JL who says something to the effect that MB although simple, isn't easy. Coaching with SH made it alot easier.

Thanks for these replies. I think it really boils down to the addiction theroy about A's.

H stayed away from OW for 4 years, and when she called him to just catch up, he thought this was safe enough, so went ahead and saw her. Just like an alcoholic or addict with a drug, he though just a little after all this time couldn't do any harm. Next thing he knew, he was out of control, arranging to see her for lunch, happy hour, once a day, sometimes twice. Totally out of control. It was like this sane, normal, rational man totally lost it.

And the final evening, when she called to say her H was kicking her out, they might be breaking up, my H went for the final "fix" and was willing to give everything up to run off with her. Its all about the high of an A, the pure adrenalin rush to be with this extramarital source of excitement. And once he gave in to it, he couldn't control himself.

This is a man who has a it all going on - wonderful family, solid marriage, great job where he is well respected, supportive extended family close by (his) tons of friends that view him as a good guy, devoted to his wife and family, and see us as a stable, fun couple to socialize with. He is also a man who is very concience of social image, not creating any undue negative attention to himself. And yet, he was ready to throw his marriage away, give up his family, create a major, embarrassing scandal with his work, the neighboors, our friends and family - just to be with her? And proceding with plan in a very uncontrolled irational maneover. Sorry, but this is just plain crazy. Much like an addict who gives in after many years to his addiction, and just loses control.

Thanks for these replies. I think it really boils down to the addiction theroy about A's.

H stayed away from OW for 4 years, and when she called him to just catch up, he thought this was safe enough, so went ahead and saw her. Just like an alcoholic or addict with a drug, he though just a little after all this time couldn't do any harm. Next thing he knew, he was out of control, arranging to see her for lunch, happy hour, once a day, sometimes twice. Totally out of control. It was like this sane, normal, rational man totally lost it.

And the final evening, when she called to say her H was kicking her out, they might be breaking up, my H went for the final "fix" and was willing to give everything up to run off with her. Its all about the high of an A, the pure adrenalin rush to be with this extramarital source of excitement. And once he gave in to it, he couldn't control himself.

This is a man who has a it all going on - wonderful family, solid marriage, great job where he is well respected, supportive extended family close by (his) tons of friends that view him as a good guy, devoted to his wife and family, and see us as a stable, fun couple to socialize with. He is also a man who is very concience of social image, not creating any undue negative attention to himself. And yet, he was ready to throw his marriage away, give up his family, create a major, embarrassing scandal with his work, the neighboors, our friends and family - just to be with her? And proceding with plan in a very uncontrolled irational maneover. Sorry, but this is just plain crazy. Much like an addict who gives in after many years to his addiction, and just loses control.

My theory du jour anyway.