I am new here, I just stumbled onto this website today, and I've ordered "His Needs,Her Needs" and "Surviving an Affair". I'll start by giving you some back ground. I appologize in advance, as this post is going to be long.

My H and I have been together for 10 years. Reasonably happy, no fighting, we care for each other, but also do not have an earth shattering passion for each other either. For years I tried to talk about our sex life and how to try new things to become more intimate, because I needed it. His response was always, "you know I don't like to talk about stuff like that" It got to the point that my husband wouldn't even kiss me, other than just a peck on the lips. So needless to say that our bedroom was less than passionate. We have one child, a son from my previous marriage (teenager). And I am blessed that my H loves him as his own. For that I adore him.
In July of 2002 I met a man. I was instantly attracted to him from the minute I saw him. I opened up to him about some very private issues that I had which I had not been able to share with anyone, not even my H. One issue was an eating disorder that I had been dealing with for almost a year. I should be honest and tell you that this man was my doctor. We became friends immediately, and felt very comfortable around each other. One day in Dec of that year I had an appointment with him, and he asked if I would help him by taking him to drop his truck off at the tire shop and give him a ride back to his office. Of course I said yes. I remember that night when we had returned back to his office, I had wanted him to kiss me. I realized then that my feelings for this man were more than a friendship. In Jan I decided that I had to stop my appointments. I cancelled my appointment and did not reschedule. Near the end of Jan I got a call at work one day and it was him. He had suggested that my H and I take a tai kwon dow (sp?) class with he and his wife. I came up with the excuses of why we couldn't and left it at that, but then he asked when I was coming back in for another adjustment, and I made an appointment for later that week. (I'm sure by now you know where this is going...)
In Feb we started sending e-mails to each other, like jokes and such, and then I made the mistake of sending a joke of a sexual nature. I realized then that I needed to come clean with my feelings for this man, and be honest. I don't know if that was wrong on my part or not, because at the time I was truly just trying to "come clean"
I confessed to him that I was attracted to him. He called me immediately and explained that it was nothing more than a patient's crush, and that it happens all the time. I didn't want in any way to tarnish the help that he had given me professionally so I bucked that as an excuse and explained to him that it was me, because I wasn't good at filtering emotions and feelings...
We agreed that we would tell no one, (our spouses) and deal with it. And truthfully we honestly did try to ignore the feelings. What I didn't know at that time was that he was having the same feelings.
Three days later he introduced me to his alter ego. A "edge name" that he and some friend had come up with years ago. He used this name to send me a very sexual e-mail. Considering it a game, and really, I did enjoy it, I went right along, and sent e-mails back. This went on for about 3 weeks. Sexy fatacies with each other, what we wanted, the works... Until one day, again we came clean and the edge names changed to our real names and real worlds. Our e-mails continued and so did our appointments, which by this time had become very intimate. The first time this man kissed me I swear the world slipped away. I had never been kissed with so much emotion, feeling, so much passion. I fell in love with him the minute he kissed me. It was over...
We continued down this path for a couple months. And then in April of 2003 I had a business trip which took me out of town for a few days. During this time we talked on the phone constantly, and emailed. The day I was coming back from my trip, we were talking that morning, and had made plans to meet when my flight landed. That was the first time we made love.
I was filled with so many emotions afterwards. I trully felt like I did not know who I was, what I was. I felt horrible, wonderful, fulfilled, wrong, all at the same time. But I was in love with this man. For the next 4 months we had a very passionate love affair. The more we were together the more we wanted to be together. But we never crossed the line of wanting to hurt our spouses. It was our world, and we wanted to keep it seperate, for us, and to protect them. We never had any intentions of leaving our spouses, but at the same time we knew we needed each other too.
So many times we both tried to break it off, but only came running back for more. It got harder and harder to be apart, and we fell in love stronger and stronger every time we were together. We even made friends with our spouses just to be included in each others lives as much as possible.
One day in August we met in the early morning. Running to each other to touch, to be together. We made love that morning, and it was as perfect as it was so many times before. But as we went our seperate ways it hurt. It hurt too much. I had been awake the entire night before and had decided to talk with him, because the affair was eating me up inside. I was so lost, but didn't know what to do. I wanted him with everything in me. However that morning, as so many other mornings I couldn't bring myself to talk about it, because when I was with him everything was good, and I felt perfect. Something I have never felt, EVER!
That day I sent him an e-mail and explained that the affair was tearing me appart, and that I needed space and time to think. Again, we tried to stay away. I know that sounds stupid, but it's true. With in a week of that e-mail we had decided that we couldn't stand being apart. We needed to be with each other, and that we deserved one another, and wanted to be with the one! I was the one... He was the one for me. Through all of this it was tearing him apart to hurt his wife and miss his little girl growing up. He felt as though he was choosing between me and his daughter. But we decided we were going to do it. "If we can do this we can do anything"
I told my husband of the affair. I came clean with everything. And the minute I did, the hurt in his eyes made me realize I couldn't hurt him. Even though I already had, I couldn't go through with it. But I kept thinking of my lover, and how much I loved him and wanted him, and so I got through it. But I never told my husband I wanted to leave him. I just told him I was in love with another man. That was on a Saturday.
I got a call Monday morning from my lover. And of course by that time I knew I was left by the fire to burn alone. He simply told me that next time to get to him sooner, and that it didn't take that much to make him happy. He was staying with his wife.
This was almost a year ago. I've been through therapy. I've thrown myself into books, journals, anything I could find to try and get him out of me.
My H and I are still together, and we are happy. But sometimes I feel so numb inside. My H decided that he would do anything to keep me. He loves me unconditionally and wants me to be his wife. I love my H very much, he is a good, honest, true man. And he has tried to make a different life for us, and be more sexual and attentive to our needs, as have I. We will stay together.
But I can not get over this man. I think of him all the time. I still lay awake at night wanting him. His smile, his laugh, god his kiss...
I'm not sure what I'm looking for here... I guess maybe to stop feeling so all alone with my feelings. How can I get past this pain, this desire. How can I feel again. Will I ever stop loving him. I honestly believe that I will love him forever.

<small>[ July 29, 2004, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: sakari ]</small>

I'm happy to hear from a woman that decided to stay and make the marriage work. These strong feelings, I'm led to believe, subside with time, Possibly a couple of years.

Though your memory will never forget, working on making your relationship with your husband the best it can be will eventually relieve you of your passion for someone else.

It takes time, and you must be committed. But you came to the right site. Read the books, talk to everyone here, and stay the course. I'm very proud of you. I wish I could say the same for my WS.

Good luck!

Thank you... Proud is something I haven't felt for myself in a very long time.
We live in a small community with mutual contacts. I can't get away from it. Moving is not an option for us, (although I would... I would move to the other side of the world if I thought it would rid me of these feelings).
I truly do want to love and feel for my husband the way a wife and lover should. And I've got to believe that I can, that I will.
Thanks for your kind words.

For me your post is a very good reason and reminder to never let yourself start a "friendship" with someone outside of your marriage. Or for a single person to allow such a "friendship" with a maried person to begin. I am a very strong believer in married people not having friendships with people of the opposite sex, and for single people not to have opposite sex friendships with married people. Just a disaster waiting to happen.

Yours has been one of the few testaments from an "affairee" that really touched me. And I think it is the sincerety with which you come across. Also that you did the right thing and stayed with your husband, although your feelings for someone else are overwhelming.

You'll forget in time. Don't allow yourself to think of him, DON'T allow yourself to fantasize about him. Do what Juke is trying to do with the "STOP" theory.

Your husband sounds like a great guy.

Good luck to you both!

I should add, that this is one of the few posts from "new" posters that touched me.

There are many FWS's on this board who are like you, and struggling with guilt, and feelings such as yours.

Sakari,

Welcome to MB. I’m so glad you stumbled onto this website... It’s so sad that you’ve allowed yourself to became involved into an A with this man and caused your H such much pain… However, I can see you are truly repentant & remorseful and that you truly want to your M to work… Sakari, this is a very good and the exact thing you need to heal your M! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Also, the fact that you decided to end the A out of your own and to tell your H about the A and be honest/open with him about it before he could found out about the A in another way, is a very good thing. This will go a long way towards the healing and recovery of your H and to win back the trust of your H.

The residual feelings you still have for OM is NORMAL and will subside with time. You are still in withdrawal because the A you had with the OM is like an addiction. To get through withdrawal takes time; patience; focus on you husband and marriage and ABSOLUTY NO CONTACT with the OM. You can’t control your feelings, but you can control your ACTIONS and this is what you currently do. If OM ever tries to contact you again, write him a No Contact letter approved by your H and signed by both of you. A NC-letter simply states that the A was WRONG and hurtful to the betrayed spouse; that you work on the recovery of your M and that there must be no contact between you FOR LIFE.

Sakari, try to read as much material as you can on this website – all the articles; Marriage Builder concepts; Questions & Answer columns etc. Tell your H about this website and encourage him to post here to get the necessary support from other BS’s.

Good luck and blessings,
Suzet

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
<strong> For me your post is a very good reason and reminder to never let yourself start a "friendship" with someone outside of your marriage. Or for a single person to allow such a "friendship" with a maried person to begin. I am a very strong believer in married people not having friendships with people of the opposite sex, and for single people not to have opposite sex friendships with married people. Just a disaster waiting to happen.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Weaver, I have just read your post and I just want to say I SO agree with you on this… especially since I had an inappropriate opposite sex friendship myself and have learned my lesson the HARD way. I’m just very thankful towards God that my inappropriate friendship with XOM never developed to a serious EA and/or PA.

Selario, as weaver have said - don't allow yourself to think or fantasize about him. Try to hold every thought ‘captive’.

Suzet

sakari - Welcome. You have come to a good place to learn to build a better marriage.

You will not have these feelings forever. There are lots of good women going through the same thing here. And they are learning to have wonderful marriages again.

Please keep reading and posting.

What is Juke and the "Stop" theory?

There is no contact at all between us. Not now anyway. There was some contact between his wife and I back in Feb. She had asked to meet with me, for some closure. She said that she wanted to talk because she felt like it was the final piece to put into place for her. I did not meet with her, I e-mailed her and explained that I could not give her the closure she was looking for. There were a couple more e-mails back and forth between her and I. I got frustrated with the healing process she was trying to convince me I needed, and asked them both to stop all contact. At that point they both hammered me with hurtfull letters and e-mails. But, in truth, all said and done, I deserved it. But through the 6 page letter he sent me, I realized that he still has not come completely clean with it all. But then again, it is none of my business how they heal their marriage.
I did come clean, fully open and honest with it all with my husband, and although it wasn't for the right reason at the time, I'm grateful that he was strong enough for the both of us and kept holding on to me. Because even after I realized my lover and I were not going to be together, the guilt, shame and confussion made me feel like I wanted to run. I really wanted to be alone, a clean break. But I couldn't hurt my husband any more. I couldn't cause him any more pain, so I stayed, and I'm so glad that he still loves me. For my son, my marriage, for us.
Each day I do get a little stronger. But it still so hard to believe that I loved someone so much, wanted someone so much, but that it was all wrong. How could I have been so wrong in my feelings for that man?
I pray that he never contacts me. I would hope that I am strong enough to ignore it. God, I hope I'm never ever tested.
My H and I don't talk about it. It's too painfull for him, and too shamefull for me. We do talk about our relationship though, and what we need from each other. Thank god he didn't let go, thank god he didn't give up on me, even when I did.

Go down to Juke's thread with the topic, my counselor told me about the stop technique, or something to that effect. Juke is another poster who trying to stop compulsive thoughts of his WW.

This is a disrepectful judgement, but I have to say that doctor sounds like a creep. What is up with that "edge name" game? I'm sorry but he sounds like a sexual predator to me. Isn't there some kind of code doctors are supposed to go by about not having affairs with patients? Yuck!

If I were you I would only allow negative thoughts about him into my mind. Absolutely no sexual thoughts. The mind is a very powerful thing, and you need to use it to your advantage.

<small>[ July 29, 2004, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

I wish I could do that... I've been through so many emotions. I even spent some time in the hospital after a bit of a breakdown. I can't think that way, for several reasons. One, I don't want to think of myself as "the victom" and pitty myself. Two, because I craved the attention he gave me. And three, I don't want to be bitter and angry, that is not the type of person I am. I really do want to be happy... And as much as this sucks, and as stupid as it sounds...
I don't even want to say it. I can't say it. As a matter of fact I've got to stop feeling it, and get on with my life.
I will say that he is not a bad person. Not the person I know, or knew rather. In his letter he tried to say that It wasn't him. That the person that I loved was not the real person he is. He was not the type of person to hurt people, or have an affair. He was always the friend you could count on and trust.
But what does that make me in his eyes? But then again, I shouldn't care.

I just read this post again, and it is pathetic!!! Please ignore it...
What do I know!!! I knew what was then, which was CLEARLY NOTHING!!!

<small>[ July 29, 2004, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: sakari ]</small>

Sakari,

You shared that there was no intimacy in your marriage before the A.

Has that changed? If you haven't done so already, maybe you and your husband could do the MB Emotional Needs questionaire.

I am thinking that as you work on improving the relationship between you and your husband, the feelings you had for this man will pass away.

Shul

Yes, although it has been a long difficult road, the passion we feel for each other has increased and we have become much more intimate.
My H doesn't know I'm here, and I don't know how he would handle it. He is not an open discussion kind of man. He does not discuss personal issues at all. I mean it's taken alot for us to get where we are, and it has not been easy. We realized that one of our problems was the lack of communication with each other about our feelings and needs.
I hope you are right, I don't want to wish my life away, but I welcome the day that I wake up not loving that man!!!

sakari,

First, welcome to this site. I think you will find many people with whom you can talk and learn.

Your are not unique with regard to your feelings about OM so it may not come as a surprise to you that your situation is not something special. It seems so to you, but it is not.

I am not blaming your H for your poor choices but it is clear he was not meeting some of your needs and that made you vulnerable to this Doctor. Still it is your own sense of what is right and wrong as well as self-esteem that should have prevented you from doing this.

So here you are a year later and what does the data look like? From here it looks like your OM, the Doc, has done this before, hence the existence of the "edge name" and the "edge game".

You asked if this was a game what does it make me? It makes you a player in the game, and perhaps a victim but one of your own choosing.

He also has a strong ability to "deny" what happened. You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> In his letter he tried to say that It wasn't him. That the person that I loved was not the real person he is. He was not the type of person to hurt people, or have an affair. He was always the friend you could count on and trust.
But what does that make me in his eyes? But then again, I shouldn't care.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What it makes him is a liar that is in denial of the damage he does those around him including his family. He is that person, and he is NOT a friend that could be counted on. Just ask his W or just look at your situation. What does it make you? It makes you a woman that cheated on your H. What your OM was/is does not alter that.

Meanwhile, you are in denial as well </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't even want to say it. I can't say it. As a matter of fact I've got to stop feeling it, and get on with my life.
I will say that he is not a bad person. Not the person I know, or knew rather. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You might as well face it, what he told you in the letter suggests that he is in fact a bad person and a very untrustworthy man. You also have admitted on one level you loved him deeply and have strong feelings for him now. That is understandable and it is something you cannot run away from.

So given all of this where are you and what should you be doing. Well, I think you don't realize where you are and you don't value yourself very much. However, the data is very clear YOUR H values you greatly and he knows some very bad things about you, but he feels/knows that the good things in your far outweight the bad. I am sure your son thinks the world of you and sees the good things in you.

So on balance you are a good person who is loved and liked far more than she realizes or realized. So let's start with this concept, you are NOT an evil person. You have made seriousl mistake. Your H feels that your mistake is far outweighed by the goodness in you. Do you appreciate this? Do you bask in this? You should.

Now I mentioned perspective and as you can see your perspective of yourself is probably in need of change to more align itself with your H's and clearly reality.

Now let's look at your marriage for a moment. You probably took wedding vows as did most of us. And you very likely promised among other things to "LOVE" your H till death do us part.

Do you know what you promised? Perhaps you do but humor me for a moment. You promised to "LOVE" him as in the verb love. It was/is a promise you can keep without any input or help from him,although it sure helps. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> You did not promise to "feel in love" with him, because feelings come and go, but feelings often follow actions. They come from sharing, and trusting, and being open. Guess what you were doing with the Doc? Guess what you were not doing with your H, even if it was to avoid hurting him. The LOVING thing to have done was to tell your H how you felt, and surely tell him if you started to get "feelings" for another man.

So what sort of perspective change am I suggesting? I am suggesting that you look to your vows and realize that while you may not have "felt" it your H did and does love you and while you may not appreciate it many of his actions were out of love for you. Further, while you have loving feelings for OM, you claimed that you loved your H. You wanted to leave him but you admit when you saw what you had done you could not.

Meanwhile your OM, had loving feelings, but did he LOVE you as action verb? No!, you were just a game, a conquest, a woman that had "feelings" for him. When action was required that would take some effort on his part, he did not do it. He was not a LOVING man toward you. Note the verb.

So if you read here you will hear that while in the affair you were in a "fog", that it was not real. Let me say what you "felt" was real, but the decisions you were making and the "feelings" you had were not coupled to the real world. And when the real world intruded(your guilt, the knowledge of the affair, the consequences), the truth came out, you were not LOVED by OM as your H promised and did LOVE you. So it is called the "fog" not because the feelings aren't felt and real but because the decisions made are made without input from the real world.

As much as you might like the fantasy world of the "fog", it would never work out.

I would strongly urge you to read the articles on this site. I want you to pay close attention to a few of the articles. One deals with what Harley calls the "four rules" for a good marriage. The next deals with what Harley calles the Policy of Joint Agreement, POJA. Finally, read about his policy of "radical honesty".

The two policies are the tools that help one follow the four rules. They are simple to understand but not that easy to implement.

You and your H need to talk about your feelings. You two have hidden things from one another long enough. Yes, they will hurt him, but you need to do this with the idea that you are seeking his help and his strength. I am sure when thoughts of OM come over you, that he notices the changes in you. Talk to him about this, and you will start to notice something. It will open up the conversations to other things, AND you will see the "feeling" part of your memories fade. The memories will remain, as they should, but the feelings attached to them will fade as they are exposed to the sunlight of your H and you discussing them.

This is a process sakari and it takes time and patience, but it works. It is absolutely amazing how similar we all are with regards to these things, and I am sure when you do read the books you ordered you will be nodding your heading saying "yes that is/was H", "yes, that was me", Oh Oh, "there is OM."

Keep posting do a lot of reading and start to really talk to your H. Ask for his help and tell him your goal(you want the feelings for OM to be gone) and realize that he is with you because he choses to be, because he loves you, and he sees the good in you although you are focused on the bad.

He is your partner, let him help you.

God Bless,

JL

JL:
Thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts with me. For so long I have needed an opinion, some kind of thought from someone who does not have a personal connection. This helped me realize that I am not alone, and that I am not crazy!!!

The silver linning with this (if there could be one) is that my H and I have found a love, a caring that we never had. It wasn't that we lost that feeling, we never had it. Sure we loved each other, but not emotionally and openly. This is our second marriage for us both. And while we tend to give more in the way of not fighting, we did not know how to give all of ourselves to each other. I don't know if that makes sense or not, but we couldn't let our guard down and trust each other with our open and raw emotions. Out of fear I suppose. Fear of being hurt again. I think for me it is/was a control issue.
It makes perfect sense that I am in denial for not accepting this man ("The Doc") for what he truly is. And for trying to glorify what happened for my own benefit. To sugar coat it as being love, to make myself feel better about being a CHEATER! Isn't it easy to open up to someone who you don't have to worry about hurting you?!?!? Because HE IS MARRIED, HE IS NOT MY HUSBAND.
It makes sense that I trusted this man, and opened up to him because in my mind he couldn't hurt me. He was already married, and I knew from the beginning that wouldn't change. I used him as much as he used me. Thank you for helping me see that... my denial.
As to if he has done this before, I don't know. Day before yesterday I probably would've said "No, Never, I Was Special To Him" I will be honest and tell you the thought has crossed my mind. I think more out of anger and rejection. But truly I don't know, and at this point I don't care. He is out of my life.
I want to work on this with my husband. I want to reach that ultimate level of respect, friendship, promise and love with him. I want nothing more. I feel like somewhat of a coward for being scared of hurting him more. It's been almost a year, and I don't want to re-surface these terrible feelings for him. I will have to handle it carefully. I will start with the books. While he hates to read, he does take interest in what I am reading. His Needs, Her Needs, will be a great stepping stone to starting the conversation.
It is true that I will not forgive myself. And by me not doing that, I'm not allowing my H to completely reach me. He is holding his hand out and I am just barely holding on. I will try and work on this. I guess understanding it is a good beginning.
Again, thank you so much for shedding some light on my situation. It takes a very special person for someone to take the time, to try and help, out of the blue, for someone you do not even know.
Thank You...

<small>[ July 30, 2004, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: sakari ]</small>

Sakari,

I am glad my post was of use to you. I think once you have done the reading that you will need to the next step. And that is to develop a plan and yes your H should be part of this planning. What should you plan to do?? Well, how about developing a deeper marriage than you have done so far? How about developing a marriage where the two of you can really talk about things that bother you and him, and the thoughts of OM, is clearly a starting place.

I know it sounds mechanical, but it provides real action items for each of you two take. Use HNHN as a guide. You will find as you learn to love your H more, you will think of the feelings with OM less and less. Memories? Flashbacks? you will have some, but the deep feelings will be transfered to the correct person and that would be your H.

I am going to make a guess here, but I am guessing your H will be a good student of all of this, and I will bet that if you are willing to show him, teach him in a kind and gentle manner, he will acquire all of the skills you desire. As you help him, and yes as you start to focus a bit on healing him further, you will understand more.

I think one of your talks should be about his feelings now and in the past. See if you can get him to open up and tell you where he is in the process and don't settle for "fine" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Us guys don't like to talk about this stuff much. So if you ask him questions just sit there until he answers, some times it takes a few moments to put into words feelings that you usually don't discuss.

Finally, as you reach out to him, you will see something change in you and that change will get you closer to where you want to be.

As I said before this is a process, but it often is sort of nonlinear. You help someone and it turns out to help you even more. But, the HNHN book will allow you both to focus your love for your spouse in directions that the spouse recognizes. It is probably the single biggest insight by Harley, that he recognized that often people love one another, and they try to show it, but if they do it in a manner the spouse does not recognize the message is lost. Hence, meeting needs is really about showing love in a way that the other person recognizes.

Something to think about.

God Bless,

JL