I got served yesterday, and my 10th anniversary is tomorrow. I've blocked the sparrow's emails.

Tomorrow evening I'm going out for dinner alone at one of the restaurants we liked. Pathetic, maybe. But it's all I could think to do - go have a great dinner and a glass of wine and celebrate the fact that I'm still in one piece.

If the sparrow contacts me I'm inclined to be pretty vague about my plans, just tell her I'm going out and leave it at that.

She probably won't get in touch, but I figure I should be prepared in case she calls and I decide to answer.

GC

Hey wait a minute....you are in Plan A, right?
Why be vague, why play this silly game?

If you want to be in Plan B, then be in Plan B, but Plan A means you try to fulfill her EN's as much as possible, that means, flowers, phone calls, communication, invite her out!!!

Not the activity I've seen you engage in. You have used the excuse of her not living there...can't fulfill her needs if she's not there...Bullhockeychips, you can still phone her and lavish her with whatever she said was missing from your R before.

You are protecting yourself, that's great, but have you REALLY shown her the changes you've made in yourself. Or better yet, what changes HAVE you made in yourself? You are in the Plan B protection phase, and Plan A is the complete opposite.

You say you're not ready for Plan B...I say you're not ready for Plan A.

Ok Gray, listen.

I'm not going to pile on here but, you've fought too long and too hard to fall into some kind of malaise like this. Tell her your plans. Still Her Making It is right. Lavish her with love, meet her EN as best as you can. If you want to remain in Plan A then go at it, but if you can't then plan b is right there too. But either way... don't fall into some sad pathetic state. Send her letters > let her know how you feel and that you want her back.

The fantasy will fall apart!!! They always do, but until it does make a life for yourself that is healthy and good for you. Make it a life that will also be attractive to her. When it does fall apart for her, make this a life that she would like to come and be apart of.

Hang tough

Out!

SHMI, I'm working on those changes, believe me. And my WW knows about it. The trouble is, she's still not feeling it, and she does not view me in a sexual way at all. People tell me my mannerisms have changed a little, that I seem more relaxed and open and friendly. Those subtle changes are important too.

I am having plan B forced on me by my WW, and in that situation you have to be careful not to reach out too hard.

You're right though. I may need to start competing more aggressively.

My WW does need to be flattered. I sent her what is sure to be an extraordinary (though modest in size) flower arrangement today, and I included a card with a very loving, but also not over-the-top, message.

I've been warned by the Harleys and by others here, including FWWs I listen especially carefully to, to be careful about appearing to pursue her. I've been advised to play it a little cool, because she is not receptive to my attempts to fill her needs. I have to do it by stealth, in a way.

If she calls I'll ask her if she wants to have dinner with me. I'm being careful, because if I reach out too hard she gets scared and bolts.

GC

Should I call and invite her to join me for dinner?

i wouldn't invite her to dinner unless she contacts you and that would have to be by phone or in person since you nixed the email. how likely do you think she will contact you, very unlikely i would suspect. but like you said and something i stand by, it's always good to be prepared.

i would have to disagree w/SHMI and RWS. you are doing what is needed and have made tremendous strides in changing yourself. see the thing is that none of us here (including myself) are professionally trained counselors. i think we would all agree w/the fact that the harley's are the experts and authority of what we should do in our specific situations. that's where the bottom line is. i hate to keep bringing up my own situation but really SH is advising me specifically for my situation and we have never once talked about implementing a plan B. the harley's are and will counsel you specifically and that's who you should listen to if you really truly and honestly believe in the MB concepts.

now granted, there may still be some things that they recommend (or don't) that you may feel uncomfortable w/and i think you should let you feeling still be your guide because ultimately it's you who will have to live w/whatever comes about. i would talk to JH at least one more time and then get her input and go from there. always remember that the best counselor of all is God, he's always available, he's always right, and he's free!

this is my 2 cents for what it's worth, i guess i still try to compare our situations a lot and maybe that's not a good thing, don't know. but just from reading here (and remember that's all any of us have) it does seem like we think a lot a like and have similar situations. but still w/a lot of differences, hence the need for professional immediate feedback specific for your situation.

Happy Anniversary BTW, i hope in the years to come you will have lots more and ones that include a fully recovered M.

continued strength and prayers to you, RR

Yes, invite her out, but you're right, not too over the top...

"I am going out tonight, you want to come? Just company, no serious talk...just fun?" Make it sound like you are going out with or without her. Throw in a compliment, "You are so much fun to be around, and I need some cheering up today."

How to fulfill her EN's without appearing as though you are pursuing her.

Send a nice letter telling her all the things you miss about her.

Call her with a simple, "Just had a memory of us at .... and thought about you, have a nice day..."click

Send her some short notes of "Boy have I been a schmuck, I didn't see your need for...I have realized this about myself and started to change, if not for you, then for the next person."

Call her about where she wants the bed moved to, and then offer to help her.

YES! Keep your boundaries. Phone calls and letters. No being around OM.

YES! Keep in touch with OMW.

YES! Evaluate her top three EN's and figure out ways you can fulfill those.

NO! LB's, at all, get out of the game playing train of thought. If it's not good for the R, don't do it. If it's bad for you, don't do it. But don't go out of your way to to be hurtful.

YES! Be honest and up front. If it hurts, tell her. If you miss her, tell her.

But watch out crossing that line of chasing her. Always back away at the end of attention, keep her wanting more. Think of it as leaning in for a kiss, and then turning your head for a peck on the cheek.

Do you have SAA? Read about Plan A.

It's OK to be aloof and standoffish, if you want to protect yourself and start to continue the D.

But you are in Plan A!!!!

Plan A is about fulfilling HER EN's, not yours!

Plan A is about showing the best side of yourself, of showing her waht she would be coming back to, and you can't do that if you are waiting for HER to call.

You say she has seen the change in you???

How can she? You have had very limited contact with her...by her choice (and yours). She can argue this change in you away by saying, "Anyone can act that way for a short itme, but has he REALLY changed, I doubt it."

How can you show her you have REALLY changed?

It will take consistency and time.

I disagree RR that this falling back and punting is what the Harley's are recommending. They are recommending Plan A, which sometimes can mean over the top attention. Why else would Jen recommend the flowers!!

<small>[ July 29, 2004, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: StillHereMakingIt ]</small>

graycloud, please do NOT invite her for dinner. I can't imagine a worse, more uncomfortable, more stressful evening.

She's made it clear to you that you are not welcome to meet her intimate/romantic needs. Please do not break that boundary. Now is really really not the time -- and your instincts about flowers/candy/chocolates/mush stuff are right on target.

Your wife served you the other day -- that's a clear, CLEAR wakeup call that what you've been doing so far is not working.

You've done a great, albeit short, Plan A. That's wonderful!

Now, let me quote two items, both from Dr. Willard Harley, founder of this here site:

"Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands." (Emphasis mine.)

Your offers for negotiation have been summarily dismissed, graycloud. Accept it.

"When your spouse is trying to decide between you and the lover, it's time for Plan B." (Emphasis mine.)

Your wife has made it very, very clear. She's not just trying to decide. She's let you know that she HAS decided.

Well, okay, let's work with that. Let's allow her to deal, fully and entirely, with the consequences of her choices. Let's get YOU protected while she does that, because it's going to be awful and it's going to take quite a while. You want to leave on a good note -- you've done that with the flowers.

But why continue to stand on the train when you can step off of it? You're going to have a lot better chance of being available to pick up the pieces afterwards if you're not in the middle of the train wreck yourself.

That does NOT mean cooperating with a divorce you don't want. It means getting out of the way of the emotional pain that's coming your way.

my emphasis was to say that the harley's are NOT advising GC to go to plan B but seems that most people here are. plan A has different definitions and interpretation here as well and if GC is counseling w/harley's then they would be the best to advise him giving his situation. i was stating my situation as an example of plan A'ing from a distance and that i have 2 strategies, one that i do behind the scenes through email/VM/and regular mail and then the other is when we talk on the phone or in person, this is what SH had advised me and i guess i was just again, trying to emphasise that doing or not doing something in a situation may not be the best for that person. that the harley's really do taylor the plans based on the situation, specific for the situation.

in the end i'm sure GC will have to decide who and what advice to follow because again, it's him who will ultimately have to live w/whatever he does or doesn't do.

Just J, thanks. I slept badly last night. I'm tired, I'm a little vulnerable, and I don't feel confident in my choices.

The bottom line is, she left me sitting there with my plan A out and nowhere to put it. She put me in plan B without giving me a chance to do plan A. She has gone against some of the fundamentals in these plans and made them impossible to follow.

She's trying to get everything done quickly, before she has a chance to see any of the consequences. The best thing for me, until I officially go to plan B, is I think to protect myself from the worst of the pain with safe boundaries and continue to show the sparrow who I am to put the consequences of her choices in greater relief.

I guess this is sort of the lostva situation, except unlike lostva's H, the sparrow has filed. So yeah, she's not on the fence, but she hasn't been on the fence in months. She decided she wanted out at the end of May, after a weekend carousing in the woods with OM, and she has never indicated any other plan.

And I don't think any more events are coming that will hurt me nearly as much as the things that have already taken place. When we have the first D hearing, with us and our lawyers and a judge, I am not going to be messed up that day. I'm going to be fine. Being told "I think we should break up" was the worst. Being told "I want to get divorced" was bad, and getting served was pretty bad. But what more can she do to hurt me? She's emptied her clip, and I'm still standing.

GC

(((((((((((gray))))))))))))

You are so strong. I hope you WILL go out and have a nice dinner. Can you recruit a buddy to come with you? My heart goes out to you on being served. Do you already have a lawyer??

Nope, haven't seen the good strong Plan A yet. Yep, looks like it's time for Plan B, but what have you shown her she will come back to?

What is the REAL reason you haven't been doing a good strong Plan A? (And don't use her as an excuse...)

Fear of rejection? Fear of scaring her away?
????

And is it the same reason the sparrow has felt unloved in the R up till now?

What was the problem with the R before that created the environment for the A?

Thanks for the love WAID. I needs it.

The one friend I'd want to have dinner with tonight is out of town. So I think I'll be on my own.

I may have put it in another post - my lawyer is a woman who is in the middle of a D herself. She's a two-time BS, and two was too many for her. The first happened while she was pregnant. She's very good-looking, a few years older than me. She flirted with me a little the other day. Maybe if my D goes through I'll ask her out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

GC

Okay, SHMI. Let me try without getting too wordy.

During our false recovery, I acknowledged my problems and asked the sparrow to help me with them. She seemed positive and optimistic about it. She was impressed at my ability to recognize them. I told her she was beautiful. I bought her gifts. I did all the house chores. I prepared all the meals. I tried my best to not freak out too much when she was cold and indifferent because of the pain of withdrawal. She talked about feeling herself coming around, about how she felt her heart returning to me.

Then she left anyway. I continued to plan A, with even greater focus. I was compassionate and kind. I told her I believed in her. I told her I would always be there for her. Those times that we spoke, I got her to let her guard down and talk to me a little.

After every meeting she turned immediately back into the evil robot.

I sent her cheerful emails and showed her a generous, loving man. I took care of myself and went to extra trouble to always be groomed and well-dressed when I saw her.

In person, she acknowledged my changes. She'd become contrite and admit to her confusion. Then we'd separate, and the evil robot would return overnight.

Since leaving, she has rarely asked me how I'm doing. She has shown no care or concern for me at all, really. And I continue to give. I am not frustrated by this. My taker is locked up in the closet until further notice.

Before I stopped emailing, I would answer her harshly-worded messages with calm responses and end every one with something like, "It's a beautiful day, try to get outside for a little bit if you can," and "I miss you," and "I hope you have a wonderful weekend."

Today I sent what I'm sure will be a very, very beautiful flower arrangement.

So that's my plan A.

Hit me. I feel damned good about what I've done, but I'm certainly open to criticism.

GC

Sounds good, I entered the story late, after she had left and started paying NO attention to you...hadn't seen the Plan A you had done before.

BUT, what were the top 3 EN's you were fulfilling. What I've read (and heavens, experienced) that if you are not fulfilling her top 3 EN's, then any other needs you are fulfilling are kind of a waste of time. Were you able to learn what her top 3 were?

And the toughy...how can you concentrate on those top 3 without going over the top and pursuing her?

I guess I'm of a different frame of mind. A Plan B needs to come as a shock...Plan A is lavishing attention and then one day...nothing. Not a slow tapering off, it allows her to get used to the lack of attention, be able to rationalize in her mind that it was meant to demise because of the lack of attention...

So, if the hurt is beginning to affect you, then start giving yourself a date for Plan B...2 weeks? A month? Tomorrow?

You have GREAT instincts. And it sounds like she has seen some changes in you.

Perhaps the reason she has to stay away from you is because Plan A was working, and she had to prove to herself that OM is the man for her...

She has to partition you off in her mind with all the bad memories to get over you. Why let her? Get yourself out of there. Do things unexpected, knock her off guard, fulfill those needs, call or see her unexpectedly, and then hang up or leave without seeming like you want anymore from her.

Like a fencing attack...jab and retreat.

How about this, go out tonight and call her from where you are at and say, "Hey, happy anniversary!" (make sure it's noisy in the background). If she sounds amenable or lonely, ask if she wants to come out, otherwise, just, "Talk with you later." If she mentions the D papers, say "Do we have to talk about this now? Call me tomorrow."

And if you have worked this hard at Plan A and she is pulling back, think about Plan B! Especially now, when OM is pulling away from her, and she will be TRULY alone.

SHMI, I may call her tonight and do just what you suggest. We'll see.

I think plan A was working, and that's why she is moving so fast and staying away from me. When we see each other, she is unable to keep her front up, but as soon as we separate, up it comes again. As long as she is at a safe distance, she can do all this.

The sparrow's top 3 ENs, I think: admiration, affection, and I'd say either conversation or domestic support. I never got her engaged enough in the recovery process to talk about these things. Two weeks into it, she sent OM a letter asking him to "please come back", they started seeing each other secretly at a coffee shop before they went to work, and a month into it, she was gone.

For my WW, the need for admiration blows all others out of the water, is the way it seems to me. I was very affectionate and admiring, but I didn't give her the romance she needs.

Crap. Ten years ago we were getting ready for the ceremony. It was at 3 P.M. It was simple, short, and very beautiful. We were married by my W's great uncle, who also married the sparrow's mother and late father. That uncle passed away this past March. He was a very influential Catholic priest, and he helped the sparrow financially when she returned to college. At his funeral I thought of how he looked out for her after she lost her father. I was deeply humbled, and in my gratitude I spent the funeral crying my eyes out.

Tonight all those memories are going to feel a bit hollow in a way. She seems to care nothing about any of these meaningful things. All that matters now are her in-love feelings.

GC

She's probably having a horrible day too. Or else she is immersing herself in distractions.

When I found our vows had been smashed, what kept me going is the idea that when we got back together we would have a new M. Last anniversary he took me to a jewelry store so we could pick out new rings...

He lived in a fog for about 4 months (longer than that if you count the 10 years we were M he was keeping his eyes open for someone else). And after moving out and finding OW wasn't what he thought she was...then reviewing his life. And deciding to move back. It's been hard since then, recreating our M.

Recovery is difficult, and easy to give up on. Please move to Plan B before you lose all your energy and love for her. You will need to reserve energy for recovery. Please move to Plan B while you still have energy left. Only you know when that is, don't wait too long.


(Sorry I posted only part...had to restart the 'puter)

<small>[ July 29, 2004, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: StillHereMakingIt ]</small>

Gray - I know today must be a hard day, but remember it is just one day. My anniversary was last month. WH actually took me to dinner and we had a nice time and he opened up to me a little bit. However, since then nothing. He has withdrawn and we seem to have taken 100 feet backwards. My point is, no matter what happens today, it is just one day and you will get through it.

Enjoy that glass of wine you have with dinner, I can't wait for December so I too can enjoy a glass!

Kloe, thanks. You sound like you're doing okay. Is the little one starting to get at all active yet, or does that take a while longer?

After work I went for a swim, then headed to dinner. I was bummed out at first, but I love this restaurant, and I had a great meal. Maybe it was because I gave into temptation and had two glasses of wine (I'm a total lightweight since I stopped drinking), but by the end of the meal I was as happy as a pig in sh*t.

Honestly, I'm feeling surprisingly good tonight. I'm lonely and my sadness is still near the surface, but I'm in less agony about the things I can't control, and that's gotta be good.

My only worry is that the sparrow interprets gift giving as "harassment" and gives me legal trouble over it. But in order to go to the trouble, she'd have to give a damn, so I don't think it's a concern.

GC