If I didn't know any better ...

Your story sounds as if you are an OW posting on the gloryboard. Your boyfriend is treating you, has treated you like you are a second class, torrid affair other woman ...

Why have you let this continue ... please don't even consider letting this continue. As hard as it is, end this relationship.

While he's away change/re-key the locks at your place, get a new home and cell number.

Re-read all that you have written on this thread .. would you let your best friend, you sister or anyone else be treated this way?

The reason you sound like an abused woman is because you are. Leave, make a new life... got to counseling and then later find someone worthy of you ... this guy is not.

way2

well it pretty over, he has gone o/s and the business partner is accompanying him to this friends funeral (of course there was no mention of that to me). however one thing concern me, this post was not to justify my behaviour. i feel that i have gone off the track as at the end of the day i was the one who cheated. he has justified his behaviour and that i created some stupid thing in my mind to justify not doing the right thing by him. not for one minute am i suggesting that i haven't done anything wrong - i have. he suggested i have misread his motives, messages and actions to justify being a sl....t. yes i am without any confidence or self-worth. i went to visit my daughter the other day and she didn't recognise me, she said 'you don't look like my mum' because i have changed my look (hair colour) i don't have one drop of life in me. this attempt at recovery has also damaged my partner, his friend recently said it looks like you have been through a divorce (my partner told no one about my disclosure) because he is this professional and he felt they people would think he is stupid to be still with a tramp!
God Bless

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i have gone off the track as at the end of the day i was the one who cheated. he has justified his behaviour and that i created some stupid thing in my mind to justify not doing the right thing by him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes you did ... but look at your life with him
He has not treated you as a valued person ... you don't even have his phone number for goodness sake.

Do the right thing by him??? How about him do the right thing by you??? Or are you going to let him continue to use that cudgel to beat you down more.

Continue to ignore what we are saying -- justify all his actions as "well I did this bad thing so I must do right and let him do whatever bad he wants back to me -- somewhere deep in my soul I feel I deserve it." And that's the life you will get.

Yes you did something wring -- sound like you've had a number of "affairs" but that should have told both of you the something was not right between you ...that needed to be fixed.

When he comes back what will you do? You're not in a marriage -- you are in a very, very bad relationship.

I had to endure a divorce from my very abusive spouse .. you can just leave. LEAVE, for good, no goign back .. no matter what gifts he gives you, or what he says.

You have no key to his place, you do not have his phone number, you never really "had" him -- except maybe in your dreams.

ways

CMTS,

You are accepting something that you are not. You think he feels that he is embarrassed by you, but in reality you should be embarrased by him.

Don't allow him to treat you like garbage. He hits you because he doesn't respect you. You have allowed him not to include you in his life and you have still hung around.

Think about it, how would you feel if someone treated your daughter like this? What would you advise her to do?

You have said that people have mentioned how stressed and haggered you have looked lately. This is an indicator that not only is this relationship bad for you emotionally but it is affecting your health too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

You deserve so much more! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Cathy

One more question:

Why have you cheated on him? Were you looking for someone to fill a big void that he leaves you with? Were you looking for someone to treat you like you were special?

Examine your reasons for stepping out on him.

thank you everyone that has given my your thoughts. the last post hit a very raw spot,

I didn't have his home number or a key to his house..i never really had him other than in my dreams.

obviously the truth does hurt and i am hurting really badly.

I think i'll leave it at that, i have just lost the plot.

may god grant you all with peace and harmony. may he surround each one of you with his beautiful divine light filled with healing love.
God Bless

BOOBYPRISE - in response to your questions;
why did i cheat on him? this is complex however i will try and make it as easy to understand. He includes any fling, relationship i had with anyone whilst we were a couple or not (not meaning we had broken up and went travelling for over a year). so why did i go out with other men then, well i assumed i was single it was pretty clear i was. in that time, i did do feral behaviour. we met up again at a friends going away party and only now he tells me he had said to me in the middle of a night club something that indicated we should try and work it out. therefore from that night he assumed we were an item however we only spoke on the phone now and again - no dates, no discussion about us. he was planning on going travelling again and asked me if would like to join him. at first i said no however the next time i agreed. we had a good time away however still no discuss about us. the day i was due to leave he informed me that a couple of friends (female one being his business partner may join him along the way). i left thinking i was just another bit of company. i must say i never at any point thought these women were of a sexual thing.
the next trip i met him on, we had a discussion about our past. when he first met me, he had asked if i had had any boyfriends since leave my exhusband-i answered no as i hadn't, i had had a couple of one night stands but nothing else. well....that was misleading he said because he feels one night stands are relationships. after i left him i never heard from his for over 1 week, by this time i had gathered we were an item. finally he called me to say he was back in our home towm. where are you living i asked 'he had gone to stay with the business partner (female)' he was in the middle of a large business deal, he had no time for me, he was having doubts about our discussion on one night stands, over the next 5 months we probably went across the road from his work for drinks 4-5 times, our intimacy was trashy. a couple weeks after he came back it was my birthday and he couldn't be bothered to come out with us (he would have explain his whereabouts to the person he was staying with). i remember here and a friend our had came to stay and just in conversation told me how she had had a long conversation with his business partner at a recent party - i nearly died, i had asked if he would like me to join him and he said but he took her. so the first affair (EA) was i met a guy out a couple weeks later. yes, he fussed over me, bad a big deal about me etc. i spent the next 3 days in his company, nothing sexual, just being available to do things me and yes made me feel special. after day 3 i told him to go away and just went back to the same thing with my partner. couple of months later, i was having a going away party and our group met up with this guy i had had a one night stand with and i slept with him, not for the sex but for the attention and affection. the next day i just back to how things were.
my partner and i were supposed to go away over the new years eve break and we had a fight because at my friends house it was disclosed that i had made my own plans for new years eve and hadn't told him (i had only made the decision about 1/2 before he arrived-as he had decided he was doing his own things) the argument got heated very quickly and that was that. so about 4 days later i contacted the guy i had spent 3 days with and started a relationship with him which lasted for around 10 days. why because i knew he was interested, he wanted to do things with me, made me feel special, had no problems about introducing me, had no problems with the fact that i had children!
over the next 4 months, i called my partner a couple of times for business stuff and that was it until i made the move.
long winded i know, however i had to explain. so i suppose that is one big trigger for him, the fact that a guy i got with had no problems about giving me a key and his number if were where going out - yet he can't.

I've got a question for you.

Describe the kind of MAN you would like to spend your life with. If you had children, what kind of man would you like to have setting an example for them as their father.

Please just take a few moments, think about it and post.

dewt

the type of man i would like to spend the rest of my life with. would be man who show respect to me at all times, who listens and appreciates what i say & think. who gives me confidence and encouragement. who is proud to have me as part of life. how gives me the assurance of our future together. who shows affection and love in any persons presence. who looks at me as his best friend. who interacts, talks and behaves in a calm, caring and loving way. who accepts people for what, who and where they are at in their lives, someone who wants help people for the right reasons and not for their own ego. who appreicates me and is grateful for everyday we have together. who displays equal standards, someone who is kind, caring, loving, fun and supportive. someone i know if i need them, regardless if they don't think it is important, that they are there for me. safety, security within the home. they are and i am, there port in the midst of a storm.

COUPLE MORE - that i am and we are the utmost important thing in our lives.

Good answer!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Now you just knew that was a trick question...

This man, the one that's flown off with some other chick while condemning you... in what ways does he fit the description you've just provided.

That's not a trick question. We already both know the answer to that one, so you don't really need to address it.

My point is that it is time for you to set some higher standards for yourself and your life. And not just set them, but life by them. Make them part of your core belief system. Make them part of how you view the universe and the world around you.

Here is your next excersise. Print out your last post and tape it to your fridge, or the bathroom mirror. Read it often.

You cannot change him. He will not suddenly become the man you want and deserve. If he'd been wonderful for years then suddenly changed, I'd maybe be singing a different tune, but I don't get that impression.

You can, however, change yourself. Raise the bar on your hopes/expectations. Set new standards for yourself and the people you allow into your life and especially into your heart.

I was in an abusive relationship, so I know that this is a toughy. It's worth it though.

Please print out what you wrote and refer to it often.

dewt

thank you point taken. he has all those things inside of him as i have seen them.
he phoned me yesterday afternoon to say he had arrived, was not happy that i had checked out his email for his flight details. was angry why i was checking up on him, and said i suppose you think i have taken (busniess partner) with as well and said i suppose you'll ring the office today and check. i questioned him about his flight and he still maintains he was on the early one - i may be right off track here. he said he was thinking on the way over, that once the funeral was out of the way he would ask me to come over and said but whats the use (not deserving again, punishing me) however the airlines confirmed that was his flight, the airlines confirmed he got on that flight but he maintains he didn't! i really couldn't have given a **** which flight he got, what i am struggling with is the truth and why? i wouldn't thought anything of it unless i hadn't gone to the airport to see him off in the morning, i actually i had missed and called -no answer; left a voice mail; and at that point i thought nothing but it was later when i tried to call again and his phone was off. which meant he would have got my messages and under normal circumstances would have replied-he would have had 20mins in the taxi to reply; that was when i started to think something is not sitting right. he then would have sat in the airport for 8 hours and 5 mins before he is boarding the plane out of the country he tries to call? MAYBE I HAVE JUST JUMPED TO THE WRONG THOUGHTS HERE,,,as i have said throughout my post he thinks he is helping me with the issue of the business partner but he's not and i have told him that. i simple get together for us all to meet is all that is required - too tough for him.
regardless of what he did, this has been a trigger (he lied last year about going away by himself and after he got home he mention her name and made out he thought he discussed with me..as if he wouldn't remember my response if he had told me) so of course i think the same again, then events around the flights are odd. and in all this, i can't forget that i have hurt his feelings as well and if you asked him what sort of women he would want to spend the rest of his life, i probably wouldn't come close.
i sent a sms message late last night telling him his is in the thoughts in his grieving time. he thanked but continued to say 'it's been a tough day especially when i am giving no support'. i sat on the phone with him for 4-5 hours on friday comforting him with his lose and now because i am questioning him, i show no support.
God Bless

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CMTS1964:
i laid absolutely every card on the table (i know he didn't but he will swear black & blue he did)
[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not going to say anything new that everyone else hasn't, but I just had to comment on your choice of words here.

Please get out. Don't wait until the four weeks are up. Now. The "old-timers" (OK--"well-seasoned") MB'ers said it early on. There is absolutely no ties with you and he. (Unclear on whether or not there are children involved and if there are consider him simply as a sperm-donor. (Sorry to put it that way, but raising my two sons--er, step-sons, I have some experience in the subject. As well, W was also abused--mostly mentally--by the same 'donor'.) Don't know what else to say. Keep yourself (and if there are children involved, certainly your children as well) safe. Good luck and God bless. We are *ALL* pulling for you--not as WW, WH, BS, FWW, FWH, etc--as *humans*--we are pulling for you.

<small>[ August 01, 2004, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

Friend,

The article referenced by "knewbetter" is classic. This is your guy to the letter.

I would also strongly urge you to do a little online research into personality disorders. Your friend does not just have a few issues to work out. Most likely he is a borderline personality and the hope of him ever improving is slim to none, unless he really comes to an understanding that he needs help.

With everyone who has already written to you, I urge you to get out now. Don't call him. Don't respond to him. Don't see him. Disappear. I wasted a couple of years with a guy like yours and, with the help of a few dear caring friends, had the strength to walk away after he started kicking me one evening. Got in the car, drove 5 hours back home, and never saw him again.

He married some poor fool a few years later; they were routinely the talk of the neighborhood when the police had to be called to break up fights.

Believe me, this type only gets worse with age.

We'll help you be strong until you can be strong on your own. Lean on us all you need. And stay in the light.

Ok, let's get to the point. YOU ARE THE OW! Plain & Simple. How can you not KNOW THIS? If you have been in an abusive relationship before this prize of a guy you have now, then I see how you don't see it. You need a therapist, either group or 1 on 1 therapy because you have NO LOVE OF SELF. You have been with him for years, no home #, met only a handful of his family and when someone calls his cell he makes no acknowledgement of you being with him. He lies about his flight, you see him running on the plane and yet you console him as he verbally lashes you. HELLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOO, am I the ONLY ONE that see's that this man is abusing you to cover his own guilt of cheating.
You say you cheated on him. WRONG!! You don't and never had a committed, honest and reality based relationship where you were included in every aspect of his life. From what you have stated here, it sounds like his business partner is girlfriend and you are the OW, not knowing that you were.
Every piece of the puzzle is clear and is easy to put together but you let it sit their afraid to acknowledge it. Ask yourself WHY? Why do you have all the evidence in front of you and yet you push it to the side and continue to be used? Is this what you equate to be LOVE? Is this what you really call a relationship?
Please get a good therapist or else you will live the rest of your life getting involved in these types of situations with men.
GOOD LUCK TO YOU

Trying24give is right...
Leave this jerk alone. I don't think you need convincing at this point. YOU NEED COURAGE!
You already know he's a DOG, HURTFUL and SELFISH

I'm leaving out several other adjectives I could use to describe him, but those are good enough reasons.

Why havent you ended this?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Thank each and everyone of you for your replies. Well yes, in short i am the fool. you paint an ugly picture and one would have to aske 'why'; why did i just accept this when inside it didn't feel right; why did i allow him to convince me otherwise? why did i think so little of myself that i didn't stand up and say 'no more'? i had actually said this recently, i had become so resentful of myself for allowing my feelings to be hurt, why did i not say anything?; the point is i have in the last 2 years and he seems to have made me think different. i thought long and hard today; if he had loved and cared for me to the extent he said he had, then why would he have not made an effort. it is all crap saying 'he was giving me space, allowing me to still do what i wanted with my girlfriends'. he should have been wanting to be with me more and more.
it's almost like he has brainwashed me. over the last couple of days, different people (friends & family) have been speaking to me about where i go when i move out of my house and i have told them 'i don't know', 'why aren't you going to his unit', if only they knew i wasn't allowed or even offered, imagine if they knew i didn't even have his home number. i started to feel so embarrassed, here all my friends and family thought i had a normal relationship. i have outright mislead them to believe differently. i have lied over the time when people would say 'are you going with him' 'why aren't you going' etc, and i would put it all back on me 'oh i don't want to' all because i was so ashamed to say i was never asked or he didn't want me to join him - how sad is that.
anyway, life goes on 'one is used and abused'..
God Bless

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CMTS1964:
Well yes, in short i am the fool. you paint an ugly picture and one would have to aske 'why'; why did i just accept this when inside it didn't feel right; why did i allow him to convince me otherwise? why did i think so little of myself that i didn't stand up and say 'no more'? i had actually said this recently, i had become so resentful of myself for allowing my feelings to be hurt, why did i not say anything?; the point is i have in the last 2 years and he seems to have made me think different. i thought long and hard today; if he had loved and cared for me to the extent he said he had, then why would he have not made an effort. it is all crap...it's almost like he has brainwashed me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CMTS...I am not a MD, nor will I pretend to be one. However, everything you wrote above (and continually in this thread) is of an abused woman. Perios! The man, somehow always "convinces" ("brainwashes") that it is somehow the womans fault. (He did this before D-Day, right???) D-day gave him the justification to act out because of you "crushing his manhood." BS!!!!!! He is a stereotypical abuser. Regardless of *ANY* actions you take or would have taken would have produced the same result. Your mistake--you are human, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> --just escalated and "justified" his actions. THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR HIM MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY ABUSING YOU!

*You* are *not* a fool. You *are* being foolish by you justifying *any* reason for staying with him.

You need to speak with a professional ASAP and *certainly* before those four weeks are over. Use this time that he's away to start rebuilding *you*. (I'm certain there's more to your history than just him.)

Good luck and God bless. Now, go take care of *YOU*! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Oh....and don't underestimate your friends and family. (Do they "really" think everything was hunky-dory in the relationship?) Maybe now is also the time to find out about that. Tell them the truth. They could very well be a very good support system that you have not acknowledged. Don't feel embarrassed. Again, you are human, right? And you *always* have these fine pepole at MB. They in themselves have "been there, done that (and are going through it.")

I'd like you to consider doing two things. One, make a list of the things he has told you about himself, about you and him, the promises and assumptions you have made about your relationship based on what he has told you. On another sheet, list his ACTIONS such as the lack of phone number, specific lies and inconsistancies ect.

I nowhere in your posts understood that the committed relationship you seem to think you are in is a MUTUALLY committed one. You may be able to detect this by looking at your lists.

Would you be willing to share how the majority of your contact with him occurs? I'm assuming you are allowed his cell # but does he answer most of the time or do you have to wait for his return call? You have said you travel together but how much time do you spend together on a weekly basis when he is in town? He is in the rental business, are you completly sure that the place you spend the night is his PRIMARY residence?

I would recommend hiring a PI to do a thorough investigation, not so that you can salvage this "relationship" but because you need to have all the information to GET OUT!

You have believed that you are in a real relationship but in reality you may as suggested earlier be an unwitting OW, or if he is not in a ongoing (notice I did not say "committed") relationship with someone then you are basically a booty call. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> You deserve better than this!!!

You seem to be involved with a crazy maker who is a player on top of it. Did you read the article I referenced? How does he score on an overall twenty points?

Crazy makers like your "bf" can twist the truth so convincingly that even when you have concrete evidence, as in you SAW the female get on the plane with him with your own eyes and yet he can still get you to doubt yourself and make all kinds of excuses and convoluted explainations for him in your posts. He has you trained well, unfortunately.

For some reason you seem to think he is not sexually involved with anyone else, don't bet on it! Hire a PI and find out what the heck is he's REALLY up to. You are so invested in the belief that you are his "unfaithful" girlfriend when in reality you may not be a girlfriend at all. Knowledge is power, as they say so get what you need to live your life in a way that honors YOU.

You've got a golden opportunity here to initiate No Contact since he's gone anyway. I'm guessing you have always been the pursuer in this relationship which never works well for women invloved with players, BTW. The players just take whatever you have to offer without much of anything in return, making you feel like cr*p about yourself. Enough is enough, don't you think?

One of the reasons we promote the concept of Radical Honesty on this site is because each partner deserves to know truth and thereby be able to make informed decisions about how they live their lives. In your case, you will need to rely on subterfuge to find out what this man's "truth" really is. Only then will you be able to make valid choices for yourself.

Your issues are not about recovery, unless you consider that you have a lot of personal recovery to do as a direct result of your involvement with this man. Please read the Dr. Carver article, it has valuable advice on getting out of an abusing situation. You are most certainly being abused, it is only a question now of what you are going to do about it. Looking forward to hearing from you....KB

P.S. Could you break up your posts a little (doesn't have to be grammatical), my eyes are not what they used to be. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />