This is my first posting here. I'm not sure where to start so I guess its best to start from the beginning. My wife and I have been married for nearly 16 years. We have 3 children.
In 1993, I had an affair, which ended when my wife found out. In 1996 my wife had a brief fling. In 1997 for a brief period we both went a bit crazy and had a number of partners. After this we both committed ourselves to the relationship. Reading this our marriage does look a disaster area, but we have had lots of good times together.
That’s the history.
Last year in May, my wife informed me that she had fallen in love with somebody else, and was having an affair with him. She moved out of the house and moved into her own place. At the point she also stopped seeing the OM as she wanted to sort her feelings out.
Then she discovered she was pregnant. It was not mine as I have had the op. Things got fairly hectic. For me I wanted to reconcile with my wife, I had no doubts about this. I told her that as far as baby was concerned then I would bring baby up as my own. Her and the OM had an argument. She came and told me that she wanted to come back to me. We both agreed that we would have to leave where we lived to give it the best chance. 2 days later she left to go to her home country, which was on another continent (just to give you an idea of how far!) The children followed 3 weeks later. I had to stay on, as I had to finish a contract, which meant I could not leave until April of this year.
My wife then went through a long withdrawal period. I visited her in August last year. We got on okay but as friends.
In October she finally broke off all contact with the OM as they had been exchanging SMS and talking on the phone. In November things went down as I confessed to having a one-night stand in 2000.
At Christmas I went and stayed for a month. Lots of talking, we ended up having one of the happiest periods of our life. She told me that she had fallen in love with me all over again. We both knew that it was still going to be a hard slog but we committed to give it our best. In February this year, baby arrived. The most beautiful little girl that you could ever imagine. I love her to bits.
Then the problems started I guess. We had an area of conflict that was very painful in trying to resolve it. This was what part the OM would have in baby’s life. I had met the OM on a number of times to discuss this. Finally he had said that he wanted to stay out of our lives. However my wife was not happy with this and wanted to hear it for herself. And thus the contact was resumed. He wanted to see baby. Finally it was agreed that she would go to visit some friends in our former home and while there would allow the OM and his parents to see baby. This whole period was the scene of some very intense arguments, which had negative impacts on our relationship. However my wife constantly assured me that she loved me, she had made her choice and that I had nothing to worry about. Because of this I agreed to it.
When she came back, its all fallen apart again. Her feelings for him have been revived and she is so confused again. She says she is in love with both of us. She says that she does not think she can break contact, even though she knows that for her to give 100% to our relationship this must be done. She switches from wanting to continue with the marriage or end it. She has major issues with our unfaithfulness in the past and feels that I will be unfaithful again at some point and that she does not want to waste anymore of her life. She doesn’t think she can forget him, as baby reminds her constantly.
Sometimes she thinks our marriage is broken beyond repair. She says she loves me, and I love her deeply. I have read His Needs Her Needs last year, which helped me greatly understand. I only came to the website this week. I have shown the site to her. She is kind of interested in what it has to say.
I'm aware this post is rambling on. So what am I asking?

Is there hope for us? Can we fix it? Has anyone else been in the situation where both parties have been unfaithful a number of times and managed to save their marriage. How can she break from someone where a baby is involved? The situation is extra complicated as I have to go away for 5 weeks for work again.

M'man, there's always hope. You sure have your work cut out for you, though.

I can't really post long as I've gotta run off to work, but I just wanted to welcome you and let you know that you are not alone.

dewt

I posted this earlier today. My wife and I have been checking often for replies. She is just as interested as I am in what will be said.
Earlier today we agreed that we would use the MB counseling service.
Any comments would be welcome.

There is always hope, especially if the both of you are committed to working on the relationship. It won't be easy and there will be ups and downs, but it will be worth it. I'm sure some of the other, more experienced, posters can give you better advice. But start by reading every thing you can on this web site and ask lots of questions. Good luck to the both of you.

PaleRider,

I think there is more hope than either of you realize. I would strongly urge you to read the articles on this site. Pay close attention to those on withdrawal and there are a few articles on OC's, children that are born of an affair.

However, I would like to direct your attention to the pregnancy section of this site. There are men and women who have gone through this from both sides and I think they can offer youand your W some good insights.

Finally, please understand that marriages are about commitment and about perspective and you two can change your perspectives both about marriage and about each other. If you do, then the need for affairs diminishes greatly and the emotional bond begins to grow to match the level of commitment that you both seek.

In a word, the answer to your question is YES.

You and your W can do this, but please be assured it will not be easy.

God Bless,

JL

Just thought that I would put my input here. I am the wife of the pale rider. Have been on a roller coaster ride this last year and feel so very tired. Taking it from the start of our M. We got married in 1988. On our sons 3 year old birthday, I got a phone call from the OW H telling me his W and my H was having an affair. I trusted my H completely and told him he must have got the wrong number. Not so. I was very young and naiv I suppose ,and believed my H when he said they were only friends. I even invited her into my house! When later on it became obvious that it was not so innocent, we were lucky thet my H got offered a three year posting abroad. We decided that this would be our chance to start afresh away from OW. Ten months later we had our third child. I thougt we were happy. Not long after baby was born, she was in town. We are talking different continents here. I mean, how much futher can you get away? My H and OW had resumed the affair and she was there to let me know. At this point my H ended the affair.This woman continued following us and making our lives a misary for eight years. Talk about fatal attraction! She just always seemed to know where we were at and what we were doing. We stared counseling but that just faded out after a while. In 1996 I had an affair. It started out as revenge. I know that is not an exuse as two wrongs doesn't make it right. I told my H about the A and after a while I broke all contact. Like my H said earlier, we then went through a period of both having several flings. This was in 1997. I had a couple of one night stands. At this point we went back to our country, where we had a serious discussion about enough is enough. We could not go on like this or our M would have to end. I stayed on my own here with the kids while my H had to go back to finish off contract. However in this 2 month period, I had a one night stand. I told my H. He had 2 one night stands and 1 brief affair with a woman he says he started to have feelings for. I had to be told this by my friend. My H has never owned up to anything until he knows there is no way out and then he admits. So now we were back to square one yet again. My H moved out of the house for a week or so, but it always comes back to that we are as bad as each other, so we plod along. And I did love him pluss kids need mum and dad together. We stayed in this country for three years, when we decided to go back across continents again. In those three years, I was faithful and think H was too. We both agreed that any more straying and it would be the end of M. So then, last May I am the one who goes and fall desperatly in love with OM and starts an affair. I told my H that I wanted out of our M but he did not want this. I moved out of the family house for a period of two weeks. I needed time on my own to think. I was such a mess. My thinking time lasted only 2 weeks as that was when I found out that I was pregnant with OM child. I panicked and basically fled from everything and everyone, back to where I grew up and felt I had some roots and stability. At least the kids love it here so maybe I did something right in all this mess. I have had contact with OM on and off. Longest period of no contact was 6 months. I just felt so much sadness with knowing I had run away from him without as much as an goodbye. He knew that I was expecting his baby. He wanted this baby. Baby girl born in Feb. Everybody loves her to bits and I have never doubted that my H love for her is genuine. We have been honest with our kids and they are aware of situation. The rest my H already said. The fact that I went to see OM and his family, so they could meet baby. All the feelings I had for him just came flooding back. So I am in love with him but love my husband too. Should not be allowed but try telling my heart that. So my question is: Am I willing to waste more time, where our history is so full of hurt and distrust. Even though I care very deeply for my H and dont want him to hurt, I often wonder by being together maybe we hurt eachother more than if we were apart. Sometimes I think that I can be strong and positive and make this work. H really trying hard. Can't fault him there. But sometimes I just think ,what is the point. The fact that he will be travelling quite a bit in the next 6 months doesn't help either. Because he has never come clean by himself before he would definatly not come clean if it happened again as he would know that would be the end . How can I trust him ever again and how can he trust me? He says he can but when I can't even trust myself when it comes to the OM ? I know this is a mess and I know that only we are responsible for the situation we are in. I am just so tired.

jill - Welcome to MarriageBuilders. You have come to the right place. You and your husband can have a much better marriage than before.

I would advise that you do lots of reading and posting here. It really helps.

Also get counseling from the Harleys. It is expensive, but they cut to the chase, and can get to the issues much quicker than traditional counseling.

Hope you will stick with us, we will help you.

Jill,

I am glad you are here and I hope you stay to read and learn. The first thing I should say is don't make any decisions while you are tired and run down. That would be step one.

Next, I hope you read the articles here. It is clear that you and your H have not done the best job of protecting one another or your marriage, but you two do have a lot of history and children to consider.

Further, don't you find it interesting that you still do love him? And he still does love you? It says something to each of you.

Now the trick of this is to turn the love you have for each into a happy marriage and for that you both need to read and understand two policies that Dr. Harley espouses: The Policy of Joint Agreement, POJA, and the policy of "radical honesty". These are very simple things, but that are not easy to implement. Post, ask questions, and read a lot here and you will get the hang of them.

To turn the love you have into a happy marriage there is the issue of needs. Harley's other recognition that I think is profound was not that people have needs, but that people often did love each other, but the other person did not know it.

Worse, one or both of the spouse would be trying to love and be loving and making no head way. Why? Because they were trying to do it in ways that the other spouse did NOT recognize. For example, PaleRider, may think he is meeting your needs by making good money from his constant traveling and thus supporting you and the family financially. But let's say that while you enjoy the money, what you really need is someone to hold you and help you with your troubles and issues.

His efforts will be for naught. Hence the needs and the needs questionaire. He needs to know what your needs are and how you would best like them met. You need to know his need and how best he likes them met.

As you might imagine, the concepts of the POJA and radical honesty play a big big role here. You both must be honest with one another, and then you must negotiate a life that meets both of your needs and that you both enthusiastically agree with: the POJA. This cannot be done over night or even a weekend. It will be complicated, it will take insight on both of your parts, and it will take work. BUT, if you do it with care for your spouse, and you both elliminate Love Busters, you can do this.

Now what has to happen is that you need to follow the four rules that Harley specified. You will be amazed because they are obvious and you will think as most here do, why didn't we do this?? There are many reasons but what has to happen is that you two invest in this marriage.

I truely believe and after being here 5 years I know that this stuff works. It is not a miracle, it is just common sense laid out in a form that is more understandable. In fact, if you read the books and the articles and you post, and then go to a library or book store you will start to see that many advice books are saying the same thing, just not as clearly or in as organized way.

Finally, Jill I think you and your H would benefit from reading and then posting in the Pregnancy/children section. There are people there that have been where both of you are now and they can understand well what you are saying.

You surely continue to post here as well. So rest up, realize that there are positives to your marriage, and understand that those positives can be built upon to make this a marriage you both enjoy. It just takes planting the seeds and nuturing them as they grow.

You can do this.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

Thank you for your reply to myself and my wife. I know my wife has some thoughts about what you said, and will post later. Sometimes she feels steam rollered by all the advice to give our M another try.
I agree about the job. My going away again is a burden. Financially wise we have no real choice about this one. I need to do this contract to ensure that we can survive financially until such time I can get a new job where I am living now. However this will be my last contract of this nature, and will finish early february. I will be away about 50% of the time.
We have had financial problems in the last 3 years and although we have got out of them, I do not want to go back there as there is no doubt in my mind that the financial pressures we have both been under has also contributed to the sorry state of our M.
Yesterday we contacted MB to make an appointment for counselling, which for me is a step forward.


PR

Thank you for all the replies. Both my H and myself have spoken to Steve once sinse we last posted. My H found it very helpful and me..... I suppose I am a bit cynical. I am trying my best not to be. H left to start his contract job yesterday morning. He will be away for 5 weeks. Although I was a bit sad to see him go I have to admit I also felt a huge relief as I now dont have to talk about our problems and issues the whole time. Jeepers, I just want to laugh and be happy again. I suppose my favorite saying at moment is " I am not unhappy but I am not happy either" A bit of a limbo existance. Don't want to be like that for the rest of my life. I know we have a lot of hard work ahead of us and sometimes I don't think I have got what it takes. Still have not told OM about no contact, yet today I got an sms from him saying that this no contact thing is not going to work as we tried that before. I presumed my H had phoned him up behind my back but he says he didn't. I believe him. So I quess he is a bit phycic ( don't know if I wrote that right..english not my first language he-he.. that's my exuse anyway) He says he is. So, I am hurting, H is hurting, OM hurting , and I suppose my friens are also hurting, at least they're ears! Shame, wonder how long it will take them to tell me to shut up already and make a decision. The thing is that I can't seem to do that. Fog, I believe it is called. Oh well.Just my thoughs as I am about to go to bed. Tomorrow is another day.

As I sit, thousands of miles away, my heart aches for you. I remember the joy we had at Christmas as we had our voyage of re-discovering each other, how we were in love again. I want that again. I just wish I could wave that magic wand and make your hurt go away.
Take Care. 143

jill -

Glad you are still posting here. You do need to end contact with OM. Until you do, you will always have feelings of ambivalence (how do you spell that?) toward your husband and marriage.
You and your husband have been through a lot together. He loves you and the children. Things can be different in the future, and you can have a much better marriage.
By the way, your English is excellent. So stick with us, and keep reading and posting here. We will help you through this. Now is the time to start working on you.