Hi All, having a bit of a dilemma and want to ask for some advice.
My WS is still living at home, but has been going out quite regularly with her new friends. She has not wanted to talk about / address the problems that we are having as she doen't like conflict? That being the case, over the last few weeks I have come to the decision that due to her continued inability to be honest (about many things) and to make any sort of decision on what she wants or see's for our future, that I will be moving on. The problem for me is that every time I tell her this, she starts to get teary, and says she is trying to work things out etc. This is somewhat unsettling for me as I set a goal for myself yet she pulls on my heart strings with her (crocodile) tears. From the few discussions that we have had, I sense that she wants to go out and see if there is anything better on offer, but have me wait around just in case there isn't. Obviously I am not prepared to do this and have explained this to her as well pointing out how incredibly unfair and selfish she is to think of doing this.
Any ideas on how to get her to snap out of this stupidity and how I can give myself a good kick in the rear. This is getting way way confusing as I don't feel that I love her in that special way anymore but she won't allow me to move on...

Is OM still in the picture?

Recovery takes a lot of work, patience and understanding. Try to be firm and loving at the same time. Put a deadline and stick to it. Either WS work on the marriage or out you go... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

btrayed....

that I will be moving on.

what is the Iwillbemovingon plan....exactly? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Actually you should be plan Aing your butt off...with some type of mental time limit in which you will try...and then prepare for plan B....

you should NOT be enabling her going out
you should NOT be sitting at home while she goes out...
you should BE inviting her places with you..offering her alternatives that interest her in relationship to her new friends and activities...


why haven't you exposed...the words that the BS of the OM is a friend of your wives leaves a bitter taste...

she has the right to know...

have you done any real plan A up till now...

while it is always your choice to walk away...
if you haven't really done plan A...especially with someone who does show some emotional response to your saying you are moving on...

whoo her from her peripheral radar...
be charming
upbeat
happy happy happy...

what she expects right now is you staying home pining for her...

invite her somewhere with you...if she refuses...make plans and go yourself...
she expects you home waiting...
don't be...

mix it up a little...
show her that her actions put HER in a similiar position she has placed you..

not talking dating..
talking illusion and the ability to show her that you will and do have a life as well..

ark

Ark and Zizzy - thanks and good points. Well I have been Plan A'ing and i have set myself a time limit, not very long 3months. Another 2-3weeks and we will have hit this time limit. The next phase is plan B as WW has been begging for this. Truth be known, I don't really want PLAN B, as I have for some time now fallen "out of love with her". I actually admitted it to her last week and apparently it "gutted her" to hear me say this (her words). I explained how this is a strange reaction given how she had been
-treating me
-avoiding any discussions of working things out
- blatantly continuing the A, lying, deceiving,
- going out all the time
- her telling me that she hasn't loved me for quite a while,
- saying one thing and acting in the complete opposite manner, etc.
I would love for her not to go out, but I can't chain her up, she has the option to do so. I agree that I have to make her taste a little of her own medicine by getting her to see what she is doing to me. I am not great at doing this, but am working on it. I have been toying with getting some of my female friends to call me at night to get her wondering who is calling me, and going out with friends.

I would love for her not to go out, but I can't chain her up, she has the option to do so.
of course she does...and you have the option to invite her somewhere with you..
and to still go to that somewhere if and when she refuses....

and honestly look at what you offer in the package of staying....
hard to do...and meant with no blame or anything to you...just look at as objectively as you can what it is like right now to be around you...

I am not great at doing this, but am working on it.
these activities...difficult at first...will become easier only when you start to do them..
change is scary scary scary stuff....

and the biggest question..
have you exposed to her "friend...
and if not
why not...

ark

Ark - I'd hate to be interrogated by you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> You hit the nail on the head with your question

have you exposed affair to her "friend... .

No I have not. The 2 x MC's that I have been seeing thought that I should, but as she threatened to harm herself they thought it was better that I kept quite, just in case. It's killing me, but I have agreed to do it, even though I don't really beleive she will harm herself. Sadly while she continues this she is putting distance between us, and yes I have told her this...

btrayed...

So she threatens to harm herself..as if that trumps the friends right to make informed decision about her life...

you know...her choice even in the face of threatening self harm...always remains her choice.....

what about finding a real friend of the OM spouse...and clueing them in....
even anonymously so that you are removed from the equasion of exposure...but SHE gets the information she deserves to make choices...

and btrayed if you are reaching the limits of your plan a...and preparing for plan b...then dig deep and step it up..

you have nothing to lose...NOTHING....
and when you begin plan b on the tail end of kick butt plan a...then it's amazing..

let her withdrawal from you....

step it up...
be upbeat.
surprise her with some little token..with no strings attached...
make her coffee..
bring home a favorite dessert...

make plans for this weekend and YOU go out...looking good..
buy some new aftershave....splurge on yourself...
or buy some old brand you haven't worn for years....
the sense of smell is a huge huge memory triggor...

loving the game poker...I'm one who tends to call bluffs....even the drama queen one...
being a drama queen muyself.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

ark

Ark - I guess that (stupidly) I would rather lose her to OM / A than even be remotely responsible for her harming herself. Truth be known I am struggling with the fact that knowing my self I am unsure if I will ever be able to truly forgive / trust her infidelity. Trust is a "huge" part of a relationship for me. I don't want to be looking over my shoulder everytime we are apart. I have also regularly endured weeks and months of little or no sex (not happily mind you) over the course of our marriage, and was prepaired to put up with that even though I am extremely physical person. So it cut very deeply when I caughther in the arms of another.
The trust issue is a BIG problem for me. Over the years I have watched my up until recently faithful wife start to streatch the truth about lots of things (shopping, money, drinking etc). she has gotten into a habit that I am very uncomfortable with, hence I am always on guard. I am hoping that someone will tell OM's wife as a few people are starting to find out about the "A", in which case I would open up if I was approached. Not a good excuse but the truth...

btrayed...

I would encourage you to sit tight with these thoughts...and really reflect on them...

people have the right at any time to say that enough is enough and though you are on a marriage building site...not all are meant to be saved...and certainly not at any cost....

but I would encourage you to do a few things...

first all in seeking recovery in a marriage..one thing that we begin to hope for is the ability for the WS to change...
and yep...I do believe that people can change...people do it all time...heck I KNOW I have changed things about myself...so I know it is possible...

and i would ask you to reflect that the ability to change goes both way....
that while I agree 100% that your need for trust is valued and neccessary....

be wary of seeking the need of your wife to change and become trustworthy.....while staunchingly claiming you perhaps can't weather the storm with her to get to that place of again valueing trust...

that you become the underminer of moving on....
which is kind what I am gathering from your post...

that she hurts you emotionally with her actions..
so you withdrawal and may be don't plan a..and may be don't create the type of person that she would turn to...based NOT on her abilities to be trustworthy...but based on YOUR own inabilities to change inside of a staunch stand on the trust issue.....

that you have already decided for her she can't change...and she can...but someone has to show they believe in enough in her...for it is easy to run and cling to those that hold her in no accountability.....but it is also a scary place...
Is she showing any areas of valueing trust that you can build on...and give positive feedback on...

and btrayed..blessed are all humans who can learn to forgive....

so why not step up plan a...see if you can't find somethings and time to enjoy with her..
if all she gets from you is negative vibes...and the feelings that you don't believe in her...etc.
she will go the other way.........

and you can't change her anyways...so why not try with yourself....

why not change your mantra from trust is very important which it is...to something like..
trust is important....but perhaps learning that trust is important is even a better thing...

I don't know..
I hate to see people flounder in plan A...
ARK

Hi Ark, I see what you are saying, but didn't quite understand what you meant from the following, a bit slow this morning;-)
"that she hurts you emotionally with her actions..
so you withdrawal and may be don't plan a..and may be don't create the type of person that she would turn to...based NOT on her abilities to be trustworthy...but based on YOUR own inabilities to change inside of a staunch stand on the trust issue.....

"that you have already decided for her she can't change...and she can...but someone has to show they believe in enough in her...for it is easy to run and cling to those that hold her in no accountability.....but it is also a scary place...
Is she showing any areas of valueing trust that you can build on...and give positive feedback on...


There is a very small flicker of love in my heart and day by day she is extinguishing it. She really has made no attempt to help reconcile the relationship in anyway, and she freely acknowledges this. When I explained to her that if things do not work out, I will sadly but honestly be able to look back and say, I tried everything in my power to make the M work. When i asked WW if that was the case with her, she sheepisly looked at me and said NO and offered no reason.
The only thing that she appears really keen on at the moment (apart from shopping & spending time out of with new friends) is having a trial separation for a few weeks. Realistically, this will just make it easier to be in contact with OM which is a awkward for her to do right now. I figure I have about 3 - 4 weeks before this trial sepration happens so I will do my best during this time. The rest as they say is in God's hands. Thanks for your continued support...

<small>[ August 03, 2004, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: B-trayed ]</small>

btrayed...

what I am trying to say is that it sounds like you are to afraid that you will never be able to trust her again..

and that you may never be able to forgive her...

that's all you....

you have to show her glimpses of your believing enough for the both of you.....

you can't want her to change (you can and should) if you don't believe in your own ability to change....(seeking forgiveness....belief in her being trustable again some day)....

Truth be known I am struggling with the fact that knowing my self I am unsure if I will ever be able to truly forgive / trust her infidelity

that can undermine and hold back your own plan a...and block you from showing her glimpses of the ONE person who does believe in her enough...
ESPECIALLY when she knows she is unworthy and not trustable now...

be wary of doing plan B on her terms...if she has the three to four week time...
go to plan b a week earlier....
but be in plan A I believe in you and your ability to once again be an honest person...

OP knows she's a liar....
OP knows he's a liar.....
he can't demand honesty...and neither has the right to even expect it from one another...

they know it...
they see themselves and the pain they cause reflected in eachothers eyes...

dead like shark eyes..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
(what a good metaphor...should copyright that one...)

ark

Hi, again you are making much sense, but the fog appears to be engulfing me as well.
The inner conflict of the leave her / stay with her sides of me is really causing me to struggle. One of the things that both WS and I spoke about pre-marriage and on our wedding night was that there was absolutely no room for infidelity in the marriage, if one of us had trouble / issues, we needed to bring them up and deal with them. I also had the MC telling me that basically WS sounds like she has let the genie out of the bottle and MC didn't see her putting the cork back on it anytime soon. Also, she saw WS's personality as that of a potential serial offender, even though this was the first time she has done this (well I am pretty sure). All this is weighing heavily on my mind.
In the meantime I an continuing to get information that confirms she is still in contact with OM even after repeated denials.