Background info....
BS - 30
WS - 30
3 boys 1,3,5
Affair started May 2004
She moved in with OM 2 1/2 weeks ago
OM is married but his wife lives out of state

Well, I've been trying for months to repair my relationship with my wife. Not everything was perfect in our marriage. We weren't communicating enough and spening enough quality time together. Other than that we were fine. No arguing, no fighting, etc.

Affair starts and wife's personality has totally shifted. It's like she's a total opposite. Anyways to the meat of my dilemna.

3 days ago we got into a heated discussion, I flat out asked her if she wanted a divorce. She said yes. I said this is over right? She said yes. I hung the phone up. 2 days later she comes over to get the kids for the weekend.

She doesn't want to burden the OM and his roomate with our kids so she asks if she can keep them at the house. I say OK since I'm a sucker.

I go out with friends and call her around 11 pm to make sure the kids are all OK. She says they are fine but she's upset... so anyways, I cut my night short and come home.

She's mad because she has been snooping in my email. Her mother made an appointment for me to go to see an attorney on thursday. My wife is adamant I don't get one. I don't know if it's because she knows how bad our situation looks for her, or if she truly wants to settle it ourselves. Her mother pushing me to get an attorney really compounds this because she feels betrayed by her family.

Anyways, so after we're talking for a bit, she busts out with this. She asks me how I'd feel about her coming home to try to work things out after she gets back from a business trip she has planned for early August. She's be back around August 15. I already know the other man is going on this trip and they will be staying in the same hotel room.

There was no lead up to this, I hadn't asked her about it, she gave no reasoning behind it. Just said it. She did mention she would not be seeing OM but she said she would need to talk to him on the phone every couple of weeks. OK, first of all I said the OM had to go completely or I wasn't sure if it was a good idea. Anyways, we went to bed.

While lying in bed I began to realize how weird this all was. How she just randomly threw that out when she hasn't said anything of the sort for weeks.

To be perfectly honest, he manipulates her alot. I think he puts ideas into her head and tells her what she needs to do. I honestly think she wants to get back in the house with no intention of coming back to improve her legal positioning should it get ugly.

Right now she had an affair, moved in with the person she had it with, left her kids with their stay at home dad. etc. Not looking good, considering she even wants to move into our 2nd home with the OM.

My question is... could her coming back and trying to leave on different terms affect her legal positioning and has anyone had this done to them before? I have an appointment with an attorney in a couple days but wanted your opinions first.

Hey there. Well, you said it yourself:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Affair starts and wife's personality has totally shifted. It's like she's a total opposite. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is in the fog. She very well could be manipulating you for the very reasons you suspect. As a woman, she has a good chance of getting everything she wants from the court, if you are not smart about YOUR position.

I think it is excellent, even if YOU don't want a D, to speak to an attorney. And good for your MIL to stick up for you! However, hopefully you will learn to stick up for yourself, soon. Hopefully, that is a lesson you can learn here, and grow.

IMVHO, you should not let your WW take the kids at your home. She doesn't want to "burden" the OM and his roomate with her very own kids??? Fine. Then she can either 1)not see her kids and feel like crap, 2)"burden" the heck out of OM and his roomate and inject a bit of REALITY into their fantasy world, or 3)write a NC letter to OM, move back home, and begin working on recovering her M and family like a big girl.

Hmmmmmmm . . . you being a "sucker" or a "nice guy" could drag this thing out longer than you care to think about. IMO, you must make it hard on her. You must make her face her natural consequences for her choices/actions.

I don't know what state you live in. I live in Idaho. I saw a lawyer, even though I did NOT want a D. However, my FWH was making crazy threats that he was going to take the house because I couldn't afford to keep it, then because he had the house, he'd have the kids, and I'd have to find an apartment somewhere, and only have weekends with my kids . . . Um, I don't think so.

WE made the decision long ago that my primary job in life is raising our boys. I do not have a career. I have small jobs I get paid for, but nothing to support myself on. Since I am the primary caregiver, either I keep our home, or it must be sold and the kids don't get to stay in it. The option is not that H could have gotten it. AND, there is spousal support in my state, to give me time to develop skills to get a good job, and there is child support. And there is no WAY, with him LEAVING us, that he would have gotten any more custody than 1 night a week, and every other weekend.

You cannot be the good guy and give her everything to make her fantasy work. She is so foggy, she will accept all you have to give, and give nothting back to you. You must make her work hard to continue the fantasy - make her work so hard it is not worth it anymore. And don't offer one thing you are not willing to lose.

I say, before you commit to anything with her, talk to that lawyer first and ask his/her opinion. Perhaps it will make no difference one bit either way if she moves home now. Get your ducks in a row, and start running your own show. Do not react to her. She is crazy right now. She is not herself.

Choose out of her chaos, and create the home you and your kids need.

SS

ditto Spider

In fact, tell your wife that you're going to talk to a lawyer to find out how best to protect your kids and yourself in light of what's happened. Say, "I have the kids as my #1 priority. I don't want to seek legal advice, but I feel the circumstances demand it."

Do not directly blame her for these "circumstances." OF COURSE her decisions have caused this mess, but you're better off at this moment not pointing a finger at her. Hence, "I feel" rather than "because of your actions." See the difference?

No more divorce talk. Don't mention it unless you want one.

Does OM's wife know what's going on? DO NOT believe anything you hear about OM's wife unless you hear it from her. If you have not informed her of what you know of the affair, do this ASAP if you know how to reach her. If you don't know how to reach her, find her.

I smell a rat too....

I agree with every word Spider Slayer said.

I must confess this comment made me laugh out loud:

"She feels betrayed by her family"

Here's the reality ....You and the kids ARE her family ....

duh....

Wandering infidels are so clueless... really pathetically clueless...

Pep

Ignore what she says and watch what she does. My WH has been telling me for over a year, that OW could be, should be, would be gone, blah, blah, blah.

I don't get into arguments anymore, just tell him there will be no relationship talk while OW is still in the picture. Saves a lot of energy that you could be spending, doing something fun.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
My WH has been telling me for over a year, that OW could be, should be, would be gone, blah, blah, blah.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know where you get your endurance for his crapola Believer. You are one strong patient woman. Have you decided where and when your timeline for patient waiting ends?

Pep

L3,

Let me review the bidding here for just a second to see if I understand this.

1. She left and lives with OM while OM's W does not know and is somewhere else do to her job status.

2. She wants to have the kids at your house because she doesn't want to bother OM and OM's roommate with them?

3. She is going on a long trip and sharing a room with OM while on this trip.

4. When she returns from said trip she is "willing" to live with you in the house.

5. She does NOT want you to get a lawyer, because YOU can trust her and she will do right by you and the kids.

So have I got it about right?

I have one question. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Do you see a win in any of those points for the children or you. The OM might be bothered to have your children around????? Hello!

My recommendation is continue to consult the lawyer and protect yourself and the children. The W does NOT come back until affair is over and she is living elsewhere and has shown that she is serious about trying to make the marriage work.

And as for the rest of it, she must think you are the dumbest sucker to ever come down the pike. If you want your marrigae, it seems to me that you need to respectively and with NO LB's tell her to go pound sand, until the A is over, and protect yourself and the kids via whatever legal means you need.

God Bless,

JL

yes, you have it all correct.

His wife is in another state. Neighboring state actually. I believe I have finally found her after a month of searching. I have struggled with telling her because my wife commented that doing so would decrease her desire to make things work. I feel now though that she probably isn't coming home anyways so I don't really feel like I'll be losing anything by telling the other spouse.

She is coming tomorrow to see the children for a bit. I am going to ask her what her intentions are. If she says she intends to stay on her current path I am going to tell her to pack up plenty of stuff and take it with her and attempt to cease all personal contact with her. The only things I will converse with her about are the kids and finances.

I'm not sure if I have the willpower to enforce these new rules. My love for her is sometimes very overwhelming. She also says and does things to hook me back in every so often. It's like she needs me there as a crutch in case this thing doesn't go how she wants it to go.

I don't know if me telling you this will change your thinking, but . . . THEY ALL SAY THIS!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have struggled with telling her because my wife commented that doing so would decrease her desire to make things work. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of COURSE she doesn't want you to tell! You might make her fantasy a little more unstable. I guarantee you that ANYTHING you do that does not support her bahavior will make her angry. She will threaten, stomp, pout, have angry outbursts all over the place. Which is why it is so important for you to know your rights legally.

I used to get so upset when FWH used to say those crazy things about taking the house and kids. Know why he started saying those things? Because I told him that if he and OW continued to be together at Scout functions with my kids, that my kids were not going to be in that Troop anymore. FWH did not like that one bit! That was one of the few places he got to see her, to get his fix! He said he wouldn't go along with it. I said, I will tell the ScoutMaster, and everyone else if you don't.

And then he told me, "I was thinking about coming back to you, but now I know I never could. After seeing how selfish your actions are, to make your kids unhappy by moving them to another Troop. Scouts isn't about me and OW, it's about the kids."

Blah blah blah. Guess what? My H did come home. And I'm pretty sure OW has quit Scouts. Expect to hear those things. IMO, they are actually kind-of good, because it means you are hitting a nerve - you are really doing something that makes their lives harder. Hm.

So, once I saw the lawyer, I KNEW he couldn't do the things he was threatening to do. All the power was gone. "If you try and take the kids out of Scouts, I'll have to take the house and custody of them." Just about made me burst out laughing, because he was BLUFFING!

Anyway, focus on YOUR path. You can only control you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She also says and does things to hook me back in every so often. It's like she needs me there as a crutch in case this thing doesn't go how she wants it to go.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is very good that you recognize her manipulation. Do not let her play you. Make a game plan, and stick to it. There are lots of veteran members here who can help you make that plan, and give you support and advice on sticking to that plan. You MUST disengage from her chaos. She absolutely is keeping you close in case her A doesn't work out. Who wants to be alone? That is another good sign for you, I think. That one she has doubts, and two you are still an acceptable second.

My H had no doubts that he shared with me, and he left me! That is scary. I have been where you are. My H did not string me along, though. He was done. Done done done.

Always have hope. This is a process. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end. Have you read "Surviving an Affair" and "His Needs Her Needs" by Dr. Harley? I also recommend "Torn Assunder" and "NOT Just Friends" and "After the Affair." Knowledge is power. Educate yourself.

Hang in there and keep posting. Sounds to me you are off to a good start.

Caution: sounds like you are planning to head directly to Plan B at this point. Hmmmmm. Have you done Plan A? Do you know what the plans are? PLEASE think carefully about your steps from here on out. Dr. Harley recommends these things be done at certain times, for certain reasons, and in certain orders (like A before B), for good reasons. Read the site again, not just the discussion forums. Read read read everything. IMHO.

SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Level3:
<strong> Affair started May 2004
She moved in with OM 2 1/2 weeks ago
OM is married but his wife lives out of state

She doesn't want to burden the OM and his roomate with our kids so she asks if she can keep them at the house. I say OK since I'm a sucker.

Anyways, so after we're talking for a bit, she busts out with this. She asks me how I'd feel about her coming home to try to work things out after she gets back from a business trip she has planned for early August. She's be back around August 15. I already know the other man is going on this trip and they will be staying in the same hotel room.

There was no lead up to this, I hadn't asked her about it, she gave no reasoning behind it. Just said it. She did mention she would not be seeing OM but she said she would need to talk to him on the phone every couple of weeks. OK, first of all I said the OM had to go completely or I wasn't sure if it was a good idea. Anyways, we went to bed.

While lying in bed I began to realize how weird this all was. How she just randomly threw that out when she hasn't said anything of the sort for weeks.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you considered that the OM's wife, the one who lives out of town, may be coming to your town to see her H? And that the reason WS wants to come home "after" the business trip and work on the marriage is that she gets to have her cake (stay in same room as OM) and eat it too (come home, live rent free, and accomodate the OM's out of state visit from his wife?

Along with the other things you were suspecting; legal positioning, etc.

You can't work on the marriage until there is no contact between the two adulterers. Think about it. Is that likely?

Letting her move back in after what has passed is not a smart idea. I smell a rat too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Level3:
<strong>I have struggled with telling her because my wife commented that doing so would decrease her desire to make things work.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Crap like this makes my blood boil!!!

But I can't tell if it's because WSs say it or BSs believe it!!!!

Level - if you believe this crap, we cannot help you any further.

Crap, crap, crap!!!

I say "crap" because I can't say bull$h!t on the forum!!!

If you don't tell OM's wife pronto, Spider, JL, Pep, believer and I will come kick your a$$!

Then we'll go have a margarita.

Got it???

WAT

<small>[ August 02, 2004, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

alright, I just attempted to call the other spouse. Wrong number <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I have so much information about the 2 of them but I can't figure out how to get in touch with her! ARGH! Does anyone know anyone that could help me out with contacting her.

(edit to remove actual names, ok to solicit methods of searching--Archuletan)

<small>[ August 03, 2004, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Archuletan ]</small>

You need to remove (edit out) their real names now.... spend some $$$ and hire a PI to find her... it is easily done.

Pep

it's not really that expensive to hire a PI. i paid $50 and was able to find out the OW's parents names, address, home phone # (she still lives at home w/her parents). all the information was from her driver license so i also got her DOB and height. the girl is not even 21. anyway, i called a few other PI's and it was going to be about the same price.

just think of it this way, that this is the one thing that you have to do in order to save your M. be prepared for anything. be prepared the OMW will not want to talk to you, will deny everything, and prepare that she might already know. When i went to talk to the OW's parents (i ended up only talking to her mom), I was prepared for the fact that they wouldn't talk to me and that they would deny it (i brough proof) but i wasn't prepared that they already knew. so this really swept me off my feet. in fact, the mom knew my name, knew i lived out of state, etc.

anyway, i knew talking to her parents was just something i had to do. even though it didn't necessarily have the effect i had expected or hoped for, it did cause the OW to get upset and go balistic. of course i didn't tell my H i was going to talk to her parents and i chose a time in which i thought the ow wouldn't be there (i have no interest in meeting her). afterwards, i was on my way to my H's work to tell him what i did and to talk but before i got there he called me and asked what did i do. i just told him i would be there in a few minutes. when i got there, he of course was upset. said he didn't want me to see what she looked like, see the flowers, see the pictures, etc. (i was thinking of course you didn't) i asked him how he knew what i had done and he said that the OW's mom had called and told her and she came to his work and freaked out and now i've probably ruined everything. (oh well)

again, what i'm saying is just to be prepared for everything and expect the worse. but just know that this is something you have to do because you don't want to look back and say "if i had only talked to OMW, if i had only done it sooner." i only had a small window of opportunity and knew i had to take it. good luck and God Bless, RR

L3

I'm a FWW myself & I have to say if the info you have given is all correct, your WW is not genuine in MHO of wanting to work it out. I would be nice to say that I could not imagine having the gall to say this to my H, but I said just as many ridiculous things I am ashamed to say.

If she said something like "can I move back now, no contact," even if she said "I dont know how well I can do nc but I'll try with your help," etc etc I'd hope you'd consider it.

I think much of what has been said to you in the way of advice may be spot on. I am sorry to say you must first of all protect the kids, above all else. Even your own happiness in MHO.

Legally I have found out a bit since my own A ended, more to understand what it means to the kids than anything else if we do not reconcile. But boy do I want that.
Anyway, from what I discovered only a few states have a fault clause in divorce & mostly that is used when assets are divided and child custody is decided. At fault spouse usually pays heavily in both areas in these states if the other spouse can show they are acceptable paretns etc .
Now in no fault states, many judges will still use this type of info, eg abandoning the kids to go live with lover, in deciding asset split and who gets main custody. basically where the kids live. Much depends on the judge themselves.
It is very hard for men, however in your case being a SAH dad and her having abandoned the kids you may have a good complaint.
If your state has legal separations, you could go for most of this if not all without proceding to a divorce right now. However, I think you should consult a family law lawyer ASAP, you may need to move fast. Things to be aware of are restraining orders and the like.

Well hope it works out L3

I just got back from the attorney and she assures me that if things do get ugly I will have a VERY good chance of gaining custody. The fact I have been SAHD and her parents, sister, and grandparents are offering testimony on my behalf all weigh heavily against her. Also the fact she left the kids with me and moved in with OM.

The attorney visit was very helpful. It answered alot of my questions and eased my mind as far as how me and the kids would be taken care of.

Somehow I don't feel as dependent on her because I know that if it goes to court I will have the upperhand. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to go to court, but knowing I have it under control helps me feel better.

I also discussed suing the OM for alienation of affection. My state is one of the few states that still supports these laws. Basically I can sue him for taking my wife's affection. She asked me specifics about my situation and said that my case was very good. She just wasn't sure if I wanted to go through such a grueling thing.

Depending on my attidude and how my wife acts, this could be a viable option as he is fairly wealthy. It would be worth it for me to do it.

gosh L3 what state do you live in? i've never heard of anything like that before (suing someone for taking someone's affection).

I live in NC... not many states still support this law. Only 7 states remain. Here is a good explanation of the law.

http://www.rosen.com/alienationofaffection/

Arizona used to have that law but abolished it. If we still did I would be all over that. SUE THE OM. That would be so great. He deserves it. Looks like NC takes that law seriously. Gives me a good feeling just thinking about it. That wouls also kill their relationship IMO. He will resent her for causing all this trouble in his life.