I have been in a positive Plan A for over four months, with few LB's...contact continues--I caught him red-handed yesterday talking to OW on cell.

WH left this morning at 5 am--dressed and groomed better. I commented on how "gussied up" he looked. He changed the subject. He left and said he was going to a town about two hours away. He was gone all day about twelve hours. I asked what time did he leave--he said 5 am. I asked if he stopped and he said no. Then you could see him do the math in his head--gone 12 hours, four hour drive--what happened to the 8 lost hours. He changed the subject really quickly and changed it to how was my day.

I realize that this is an LB to ask him to account for his time and not positive Plan A. But the part of me that is fed-up and angry enjoys watching him squirm and try to be self-righteous....especially since he grills me on my whereabouts and has accused me of having an A. I know I will pay a price for this and probably should go to Plan B before I totally blow it....but the sport was too tempting to resist.

For the life of me, I don't know where some of you folks in plan A find the strength.
I honestly don't think I could do it if I had to and I thank goodness that I didn't have to because I would have failed miserably.

I confess that I never even attempted plan A and immediately headed for the ultimatum.


I love my H but I loved my sanity more and it litterally drove me insane to know something was happening and that I was being decieved.
I guess I just couldn't do it..nope. I KNOW I couldn't because I didn't even try.

Bless you for having the patience to work this hard. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

SS,

Be careful...sporting as it may be to try and catch WS's in their little lies, they get really, REALLY good at it over time. I found myself on one hand knowing WH was flat out lying to me and on the other hand, starting to believe him and wondering if I was really the crazy one.

Keep your wits about you. And if you're going to do a good Plan A, be sure you can handle the pain of knowing they're telling you a doozie and not really being able to do anything about it (although I'm not sure Plan A says you can't confront them--you just have to do it in a loving and understanding fashion--sometimes a bit of a challenge depending on the absurdity of the lie.)

LL

SureSurvivor - It's a tough call. I am finding that out the hard way. Whist I have fun cathing WS out (I named it "sport lying"), it is actually training her to get better at the black art of deception, so be very careful in what you do. I am finding that WS is now getting much harder to detect as a result of my earlier tactics. If you know they are lying that may have to be enough information for you. I noticed that when I lay of WS for a while and she thinks that I am trusting her again, she starts relaxing and becomes careless again.
My formula is now as follows, "IF the lips are moving it's probably a lie" Keep this in mind and save yourself the anguish..

SureSurvivor -

Unbelievable! THIS story is in that book, as well! I think you and the author are married to very similar men. I am so interested to hear your thoughts on the similarities and differences when you have read it. It is a VERY easy read, I promise.

I, too, don't know if I could be finding the humor so well in such painfull stuff as your H's continuing A. After my H confessed on d-day (in the emergency room while having a mental breakdown, then going to a halfway house for 5 days, then living with his parents for a couple weeks), he got himself an apartment. Lucky for me, HW dumped H after he told me - she felt betrayed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> .

Even then, it took the man 3 months to defog his brain, and come back to himself. Never would have believed it was possible if I hadn't lived it. However, the A was over. H still called HW on the phone and emailed her, but she had a boyfriend by then (she's a single mom, my former "best friend"), and she didn't think it was appropriate for H to share his feelings with her while she was dating someone.

You can only imagine my H's confusion that it was OK for her to persue a relationship with H while he was married to her best friend, but not OK for him to persue a R with her while she had a boyfriend. DUH!!!

Anyway, I digress. Point is, I feel I would have gone NUTS if I knew he was being intimate with her, or having fun with her. Which is probably why I burst their little bubble world right after d-day. Being someone's "best friend" has its advantages. I knew her weaknesses, her mother, the parents of the kids in her in-home daycare, and I am quite well known in our small community because of my participation in the schools and various volunteer community functions.

It was painful enough knowing he still thought he was "in love" with her, and never loved me. And that he felt compelled to contact her all the time, even though she was treating him like crap and hurting him.

Have hope. The author of that book managed to save her sanity and her marriage, as did I. You don't sound like you are having so much a sanity problem. In fact, your sense of humor will carry you through a LOT. My H and I have kind-of twisted humor sometimes, and we laugh about things others would think were inappropriate, but we don't care!!!

Keep doing what you are doing. I think it is good to call the WS on their lies. I do not think it is an LB, if it is done in a non-threatening way. The way you described. You are not a doormat in Plan A, you are loving wife who is learning to communicate in a more effective way. Not just for now, but for the rest of your M. I believe that is why A's can make recovered marriages better than what the pre-A marriage was. So many things can be learned!

SS

well im almost three years into this and i still deal with lies....not about the affair but stupid everyday stuff. it angers me that he doesnt understand NO MORE LIES!! i dont care what the subject is...no more.(ive come to the conclusion the only ok lie would, maybe, be for a surprise for me or us.....)

but i guess he and i have very different ideas on marriage.....for he is also going to a dinner in another city on thurs night without me....

the saga continues......

Hey Nikko
I have been wondering how things are for you. How di the counseling go? Please post an update.
C&S

i havent posted cause there really isnt much to post---as you can tell, im still dealing with someone who thinks going out without me is ok, and small lies are also ok.

counseling has been an adventure---he just sits there and says nothing.....counselor doesnt even look at him anymore...just looks and talks to me.LOL but the counselor is not a good one so it has been interesting...if i wasnt so knowledgeable about this stuf(thanks hunny), it would probably be a nightmare.....

so i go on everyday trying to heal myself and move foward....doing ok most days...still have bad ones...but i am healing me now....

Hi sure,

Have you considered Plan B yet? Don't fall into the trap of thinking just because you CAN do a Plan A for a long time that you are supposed to.At some point,it does become ineffective and you lose your ground and intergity in the eyes of your WH.

When I was in my plan a of sorts,I didn't bother asking questions I knew the answers to.It was a joke.Frankly,it was just insulting to watch my WH lie to me about info I already had ascertained.My intuition was right on the money the entire time the A came out.It was only about a month that the A was going on beforehand,not years like some poor souls on this board.

O

don't mean to thread jake , but couldn't help wanting to correct NIKKO , I to have one of those FWS that thinks nothing wrong with going out without me .

BUT heres the funny correction (if ya find it simalar) THEY do not lie any more H calls it forgetting to tell ya LOL

even the stupid little things , its I didn't lie I didn't think it important so I must of FORGOT to include it LOL .

Sorry just had to through the humor ball around .

ITs the only thing that got me through it .

Also on the SPORT ! I agree with alot said here , it works alot of ways some times WS get better at the art of LYING through really listening to the qiestions they know BS will ask or things we check .

BUT OH the temptation to prove you know they lied , you just can't hold it in thinking you know you can make them look stupid and that you show them not for one minute can you be fooled .

And comment to LIP ACTION my FWS was different he can't lie well so the more he don't talk the more I know somethings brewing in that head . LOL

JM2cents

Thanks to everyone for your comments. As with many postings on this board--it helps us all to know that we are not alone and to share our experience. If we told most common-folk who have not had the pain of experiencing an A what happens to us, they would think we are crazy or masochistic. But really we are just faithful, loving spouses who took M really seriously.

The lies are eating away at my bank and I am finding it more difficult to protect myself from them. Plan B is in the wings, but I am trying to positive Plan A for a little while longer. I realize I am playing with fire so I will stop this dangerous sport. I come here to vent just like many others.

God give us strength for this struggle and I hope all MB's have a better week.

<small>[ August 03, 2004, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: SureSurvivor ]</small>

So sorry to hear that Nikko. I was hoping the counseling would help. Although I think I posted that my H really only went to counseling for my sake not his and bailed if anything got confromting for him. Counselors all ended up saying until he was there for his own sake and not just to appease me that it was pointless for him.
We are still plodding along. It can be frustrating. Sometimes I think we have an ahhah moment and make a breakthrough, but then we backslide. Although I do think some slow progress is being made.

I had better get to bed
C&S

LOL----i stand corrected.

yeah ive dealt with that too.....and also the actions of meeting needs only because he knows a dinner or such event is comming up and wants to go.(he did this with the last one....i got a dozen roses the night before. back rubs and other stuff he does not do!) so i know when something is up---now i come to the decisions of what to do...this breaks what i consider my boundries...and we have discussed it till its dead.....then he does it again....how many times do i need to say NO LIES! no dishonesty in any way....he aint getting it. so i guess i am at the crossroads again...he is in counseling..not doing anything, but still behaving in the same manner....so i will get a job at the end of summer and work to move on. he will have to get out cause im not going anywhere.....LOL.

IWonder,

My feelings ( and my actions) exactly!!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Originally posted by nikko:
....how many times do i need to say NO LIES! no dishonesty in any way....he aint getting it. so i guess i am at the crossroads again...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nikko... so sorry.....

Reading your current situation make me realize something about my own!

It was fortunate that Mr. Pep was an alcoholic at the time of discovery!

I made AA meetings one of my boundaries. Mr. Pep took me seriously. AA program and his sponsors taught Mr. Pep more about himself than any counselor ever did.

I recall your H has some mild alcohol misuse issues??? Or do I have you confused with someone else?

If Mr. Pep had not commited himself to AA ... his dishonesty would have continued. Dishonesty was part of his daily living. He grew up that way. Lying was his "normal" as a kid. That's the way it is growing up in an alcoholic home, you "hide" things in order to get along.

I can almost "hear" your respect for your man erroding with every stupid lie he tells. It's not a good thing to realize your man's ethics look small in your eyes, is it?

Ever consider going to Al-Anon yourself?

PS......... how's that child of yours doing? Mine is OK for the moment. Thank God.

Pep

<small>[ August 03, 2004, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Thanks to all for your comments. Lies are a big drain to the love bank. I would have used an ultimatum if I thought it would have worked, but WH is so competitive and stubborn that I am sure it would have backfired. As Spider has said, BS/me is our M's only hope. Right now I am holding on by my fingertips....and coming here to vent helped relieve some pressure to continue with Plan A for a little while. I will stop encouraging sport lying. "I will not play with fire anymore. I will not play with fire anymore."

To Spider, I ordered the book today and it should come in a few days. I look forward to reading it and thanks for the recommendation.

To everyone--may God grant us a better week with courage and serenity.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> To everyone--may God grant us a better week with courage and serenity. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AMEN!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

pep---mr nikko grew up with an alcoholic father who cheated regularly and died when hubby was 9 yrs old. the scars are deep. the respect issue---i basically have none. i am way beyond bankrupt on that one. its sad.

on the son issue--he goes to aa every night--7 nights a week. goes to outpatient everday, and we have court in two weeks. hopefully he is getting it this time....cuase he's bankrupting me financially...LOL.

pray for me---im getting it thrown at me from every direction...

oh....I remember. simple things like bringing me a cup of flavored coffee from the corner market-meant he just saw ow ....OR unexplained angry silence...same thing-just had a chat with ow-and shaving at midnight---big clue a meeting was scheduled for early morning....blah.

lies of omission....try explaining THAT concept to a fogged WS. and DO let me know the answer!

PEACE OUT!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Originally posted by nikko:
mr nikko grew up with an alcoholic father who cheated regularly and died when hubby was 9 yrs old. the scars are deep.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Call AA and inquire as to time and location for combo AA-ALAnon meetings in your area. Take your son and your husband. Fun family outing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Lying is your husband's ~normal~. "Never show anyone all your cards" ---> THIS is how he survived as a child. Right?

Radical honesty is like asking your H to run down New York's 5th Ave naked with his hair on fire ... radical honesty is a threat to his very life ... according to his childhood experience.

Look up "Reactive Attachment Disorder" do a google search ... there is a pretty good site I think is called "radkids" or som'pin like that.

You might be asking him to do something (radical honesty) that goes 100% against everything that protected him growing up!
Pep