Tomorrow is our third year anniversary. It should be a happy time but it's not. For the last 2 weeks or so my husband has been saying he does not want to be married anymore. Seems like even though I am trying nothing seems to be working right.

I look back at the 6 years we have been together and think about all the wonderful things we have done. All the cards, poems and things he has said about me. All of that seems like lies now. I know it may be his fog talk but it still hurts. The hurt is deep. It makes me feel like our whole marriage was nothing.

I don't even feel like celebrating it because there may never be another one. I just feel really down right now. I did go out and buy my husband a present but I really don't want anything from him. All I ever wanted was his love. And I may not even have that.

<small>[ August 04, 2004, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: SadMarylandLady ]</small>

SadMarylandLady -

I know you are sad, and you have every right to be! BUT, you must find an up-side. You must find a way to begin to move forward. If you stay stuck, when your H does look to you, he will see what he expects to see - a sad BW.

I know it is hard. It is a process, so don't think I am expecting you to change right now. And I know you are just venting because you are coming up on a very special day. I am not beating you up.

But I feel like you need a bug in your ear to not be down. Tomorrow may be an opportunity, with the right attitude, to make many Love Unit deposits into his Love Bank. Your H is still living at home. You have an advantage I did not have.

Do you have any plans at all for dinner? If not, let's make some! A nice meal, some familiar music, some old photos . . . ARK says that smell is the strongest memory-inducer we have.

For the day, try and prepare yourself to only show him your Giver love for him. Do not let your Taker out at all. When he looks into your eyes, let him see the joy of an expecting mother, the love of a devoted wife, all that is the best of you.

As Monica on Friends said once, that I love, "It's gut-check time!" This is hard stuff . . . but I know what you are made of. You can do this, and much more.

How are you feeling? Do you have any ideas yet?

SS

SML,
I am truly sorry that you are in deep emotional pain right now. There is very little you can do to change your spouse. It really comes down to how much we are willing to endure and for how long. Just last week, I received a very loving card for my BD from my W. I have not received anything like that since 2001. Yes that is 3 years. It has been almost a year since dday and I am just now seeing the rewards of enduring very direct and fierce rejection.

I have been where you are and have survived. I have become a much better person and less selfish that ever before. My walk wiyh God is where it should be. My W is now starting to see the reality. Believe me, the emotional trauma on the WS is severe and deceiving. They really are confused and unsure b/c their emotions are controlling them.

I am not excusing the behavior and realize that there is much work ahead. You need to decide if the pain you will have to endure is worth saving your M. Believe the survivors who say it takes 2 years past dday to get your M back and begin the rebuilding process. I had alot of sleepless nights and more prayer than I can count.

How did I get this far? Hope and God. I never gave up. Yes, I wanted to many times, but somehow God sustained me. Yes, I know it could still fail, but I'm okay with that. I have learned to be satisfied by my relationship with God. He provides for all my needs.

I suggest you do your part as a loving W and give him that gift and card. Keep telling him you love him. Be prepared to be disappointed and rejected. When you are rejected, don't withdraw, but reach out, not in a needy way, but in a way that says you love him in spite of his feeling toward you. You can do this and you will grow more than you could imagine.

This growth is painful, but the pain is worth the reward.
Christ's Love,
Roman121

My third anniversary was in June and it was hard but not as bad as I expected. WH actually invited me to dinner and we had a nice time. Although, when we got married I never would have thought I'd be saying good bye to my H after our anniversary dinner on the sidewalk while we both walked to our seperate cars to drive to our seperate homes.

Make the best of it that you can. Can you get a sitter and go out for a nice dinner and maybe a walk? I nice card, not too mushy, should be fine. Maybe talk about the good times and how no matter what happens you are glad that you married him.

Hang in there. He is definately in the Fog but you are breaking through. Hopefully, he will get through this before too long. I can't imagine being 8 or 9 months pregnant and still dealing with this. But if that is what is meant to be, we will be given the strength to get through it somehow.

Thanks everyone for your response. I was so down yesterday. But today I feel much better. I don't have a sitter tonight but tonight is my husbands late night to work. So my plan is to get the kids into bed before he gets here. I am going to make my own card for him. Also I am planning a nice dinner and maybe renting a movie we will both enjoy.

We usually went away for our anniversary but this time we won't be. But we may plan something for a upcoming weekend to go to the beach or something. This whole week he has been coming home distant again. Pretty much coming home, eating, then getting on the pc and surfing or playing online fighting games. I know why he is doing this. The MC says it is a outlet for him. But he tends to take it to far. When he starts he does not stop till about 1 in the morning then he comes to bed. This really bothers me and he knows it. But I have been trying to just let it alone and see if that makes any difference. I am not sure what else to do.

I emailed him a little bit ago and said Happy Anniversary. But didn't say to much more. I don't want to over do it. There are days I see my real husband. But most days lately I see someone I didn't marry. Distant, moody, and doesn't seem to care about me as much as before. I am really praying for some change to take place. I am still working on myself and becoming a better person, wife and mother. I just hope he sees me trying and tries also.

SML -

If you haven't visited ARK's thread called "plan a tips and musings...get grounded here" on GQII, please do so. The reason? This statement from you:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just hope he sees me trying and tries also. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Me thinks as long as that is a thought in your head, you will be unsuccessful. Read ARK's thread, and tell me if you understand what I mean.

*HUGS*

SS

SS,
After reading Ark's thread. I really get a greater understanding of plan A. I didn't before. I was still doing a lot of the things that are considered things you don't do. Also I think plan a will just help me began to heal and move on even if he is not going to stay. Thanks for pointing that thread out. I printed for easy access later.

PLEASE let us know how the night went.

My thoughts are with you.

SS

*bump*

SS I posted my update on another thread but here it is...

Last night was our 3rd anniversary. I cooked a special meal for my WH. I had a candlelight dinner setup and some music. I made him a nice card and bought him a simple gift. I really was feeling good all day till I called him at work to see what time he would be home. He seemed very frustrated and said we need to talk tonight. My heart sunk. I knew what he was going to say.

Well he came home and we enjoyed a really nice dinner. He was so sweet. Kissing me and holding me every chance he got. Then we laid on the couch to watch a movie together. He decided it was time to talk. He said he was sorry for all the pain and sadness he has caused. That he wished he could make it go away. I said you can. But he said I don't feel it anymore. I said what. And he said being in our marriage. He feels there is a void in his life that he cannot fill in our marriage.

Even though our MC has stated the void he is trying to feel is a personal goal and has nothing to do with the marriage he doesn't feel that way. Even though he agrees. He is a writer and artist and wants to get a book written and published. He feels like our marriage is holding him back. He feels so much pressure because he is the only one working right now to provide. Feels like if he was single again that he could get a lot more accomplished. He said silly as it sounds that is how I feel.

I told him I guess there is nothing I can do to make him change his mind. He said when someones mind is already made up then no you can't. I tried not to cry but I felt a few tears run down my face. What should have been a night to celebrate our marriage turned into a night to say goodbye or something.

I got up off the couch and said goodnight. He followed me upstairs and continued to talk. Said he wish he didn't feel like he did. Said there was other factors into why he wants to leave. I think he feels like he doesn't love me anymore. Also feels I don't understand him. He says it is not about the OW. Which I truly don't think it is at this point. I really think he is just confused but doesn't realize it.

He held me so tight then made love to me. Afterwards I went to get a drink and found a present for me. It was nice but I was really interested what his card said. I wish I wouldn't have opened it. Because it made me feel worse. The card bascially said he was sorry for all the hurt he caused and for making me doubt he cared. But the part he wrote really hurt. Here is what it said.

"I wish I could find the words to express just how much I care and take away all the pain and hurt I have caused you. If I could take this back I would, I know things have changed and our hearts no longer feel as alive as it once used to, Know you have a special place in my heart. And I will never stop caring for you."

There was no I love you or anything. I guess I was hoping his card said he wanted to try or something. To me it doesn't sound like there is much hope. And I am starting to feel like there is nothing I can do to make him want to stay.

I asked him when he was leaving. He said I don't know. I said so I am suppose to live each day not knowing. And he said you already know what I want. So I guess that's it. His mind is set. I am losing someone I love so much. I know I can eventually live without him but I guess I don't want to. I will miss him so much.

I don't know what to do at this point. Do I plan A. Does there seem like there is no hope of him changing his mind about leaving? I look at my 3 year old and know he will be the one to hurt the most. And my baby that will be here in Nov will not even know her father that much. Maybe every other weekend. And that is not much. If he does leave I plan to go into plan B. In my heart I don't want to believe he will do it. He says many things but never follows through I guess I am just hoping he doesn't follow through and leave me

Okay, SML, I am going to tell you this again and again and again, until you finally get it, like I finally got it, after people told me over and over and over. THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU! THIS IS ABOUT HIM AND HIS FANTASY WORLD WITH OW!

How do I know??? I lived it!!! My H told me it wasn't about OW, she was just the "catalyst" that showed him he never loved me. Let me post an email from my foggy FWH. Mind you, this is while he was already moved out in his own apartment, telling me he wanted a D every chance he got. OK?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am tired of trying to patch things. I think it needs to end.
Maybe we will be able to start a new relationship after all of this and end
up together eventually like [our friends] did. But right now I don't see that happening. Hopefully, if you "love" me like you say you do and the kids too, you will find a way for us to be friends enough to hang out together. I still consider you my best friend ever and I do feel realy bad for all the things I have done over the years to include leading myself you
on thinking I felt the way I did. It was naive of me and I regret making you feel that way back towards me. I dind't know what I was doing or how I was feeling. But that is no excuse. I really don't have one.

I hope that we can at least find a way to get along together in the relationship counseling. Because I still want to be your friend. I know
you are feeling like I am taking everyting back that I said so many years ago, but I am not. That is how I felt at the time because I what I thought I knew. But I think I have been trying too hard and for too long to try to
fix and patch our relatiobship and I am out of gas. I feel really bad for giving up at this point because we have come so far. In some ways I think it would have been easier earlier. But I think there is a time and a place for everything. I think we were supposed to be together for the time that we were and now I think we are supposed to not be together, at least under the same roof. We need some time apart. You keep ssaying I am giving up on
our family, but I am not. I want to keep the unity that we have as a family together. We can still do activities together as a group (hopefully) and I looks forward to the day that you and I can be friends again. But I don't
think we can live together anymore. Not with all that has happened in our past and what has been done. I don't feel right staying in a situation where I do not feel the right way toward you. That is not fair to you or myself.

Hopefully we cna come to some sort of understanding at the counseling
session. But I do not think we should talk until then. You can still email me if you want, but do not expect me to reply in any sort of heated debate. I will be more than happy to reply to any cordial conversations that are not
emotionally based.

Take care,

Mr. SS </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And this doosey:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have tried to be honest with you every step of the way in our lives
together. I have always told you how I thought I felt and if it was eve a
lie it was because I was lying to myself, not to you. I convinced myself
completely that I felt ways that I didn't because I was scared. I realize
that now. At the time I did not. Back then I had no self esteem when it
came to women, and so the first one that actually was interested in me, I
clinged onto and was going to do whatever I could to keep her, because I
would not get another chance. I was so scared of not having the perfect
family and perfect wife and perfect lifestyle that I forced myself to
generate a likeness that would build that. But as much as I enjoyed many of
the times we had, it was not me. I chose not to choose anymore way back
then and emotionally shut myself down even though I thought I was feeling
emotions. My defensive mechanisms kept me from realizing it, because to
fill the void I kept busy. We both did. We kept so busy we couldn't see
straight, if it wasn't the Military, it was School or working long hours.
But I have forced myself to move so fast to avoid the issue for so many
years that I completely forgot who I was. I let my logic and reason run my
life and it kept my emotions in check by overworking myself. I almost
noticed it when I did Impact. When I told you I felt this black hole in my
chest and that I could not feel any emotions. Well I was partially right.
I think the emotions were not there that I convinced myself that they were.
That scared me back into getting busy and avoiding the issue. And I did a
good job of it these past 10 years. But it has resurfaced, and for the
first time I am realizing what it is. With my counselor I am just starting
to revisit myself and starting to look inside and see who I really am and
try to find out why I have been hiding all these years and break those walls
down.

So if I seem different it is because I am. What that really means and where
I go from here, I am not sure of. That will take time to figure out. Right
now I don't feel we should be together, because I at least did it for the
wrong reasons. You were right to give me that stuff back. I did it to make
you happy not because I wanted to give them to you.

I really am not trying to make you mad or sad, or throw any blame around. I
made the choice to stop choosing in an attempt to make the relationship
work. Who's to say it would or would not have worked if I had kept my
choices. There is not point thinking about what could have been since it's
just a waste of time.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See? They are FOGGY! He is telling you his feelings, as he feels them, right now. They probably fluctuate hourly. He is in constant termoil. But have no doubts, it is because he is involved with the OW.

SS

Darn double post!

<small>[ August 05, 2004, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Spider Slayer ]</small>

SS,
Your post kind of scared me. Those emails your husband sent you sound just like the things my husband tells me. Yes it is just the fog but the hardest part to deal with is he truly believes these things.

I told him today that I am sorry he feels the way he does. That I believe he truly feels this way right now. But to give it time to see if things can change. He is moving to a different dept in his work away from the major guys that have been giving him trouble, I am starting a part-time job in a week so I think that a lot of the stress and pressure will be gone. I do think this makes things seem worse at home when you are stress and depressed at work.

So what do you suggest?? Do I just go on and plan A and act like he didn't even say he wanted to leave? I have a hard time not bringing it up because I am a person who needs to know things. If he is planning on leaving I would like to know when. But maybe I should just ease off of the subject for now. Should I just wait to see what he is planning?

SML, I'm not sure what to tell you right now. I just had my anniversary a week ago, just after getting served. Mine was not as bad as yours. My WW could have been in Hong Kong for all I know. You still have a chance to plan A, and seem to still be working on getting the hang of it (me too).

SS, I'm glad you posted those emails. OMW in my story is getting the same kind of stuff from her H - "I've been faking it for a long time", that kind of thing. She finds it impossible to believe, but he believes it completely. I've pointed her to this thread so she can read them. Thanks,

GC

SS, have you and your H talked about those emails since?

GC

SML -

After reading those emails from my FWH, and reading ark's thread on Plan A, I was hoping you would have a more clear idea of what to do in your own sitch. I am not you, I can only say what I did for my own M. That may or may not work for you. Have you read any of the A books recommended on this site? I highly recommend you read as much as possible. Not just the forums, but books and the MB site, as well. I recommend "NOT Just Friends," "Torn Assunder," "After the Affair," along with Dr. Harley's Books "His Needs Her Needs," and "Surviving an Affair."

Have you read ark's lighthouse post? That is a good one, as well. Remove yourself from his chaos, is what ark says. That means (to me), set your mind on what YOU want. You want to stay married? Fine, do not discuss D or separation. Be happy and positive. Lead by example - without ANY expectation of your ways being copied by your WH. You CANNOT give to him with any expectation of getting back. For me, personally, that took time. See, I think we as BS are addicted to our spouses, just as those same spouses have become addicted to the OP.

It is not bad, but not really healthy, either - IMHO. We are simply used to being loved and getting love from this person. Not unlike how the WS become addicted to the OP. Granted, we are married, and should be able to count on having our affection returned, but right now, your WH is not really IN your M. His head is not in the game. Yours is. You are your M's hope right now. I believe the sooner you can unplug from your WH's chaos, his FEELINGS, by focusing on YOUR own feelings and path, the sooner your WH can come out of the fog.

Each time your WH looks to you and sees your pain, he closes off to you. WHAT IF, he looked to you and saw happiness. WHAT IF, he looked to you and could see a sense of normalcy again? WHAT IF, he looked to you and saw hope for your future together?

DO NOT let him see what he expects to see. It is hard. It takes time. But knowing your goal could help it come faster. That is how it happened for me. Did you read my story on ark's Plan A thread? Regarding dinner, the movie, the drive in the van, the waffles and bacon? My H finally saw that the SS train was moving in a forward direction. With or without him. We were doing normal, SS family things. Going to church, having meals, having fun, laughing, being TOGETHER.

To be honest, your H doesn't know what the heck he wants. Probably doesn't have a clue. My H now says that he would literally think, "I KNOW what I want, and it is NOT this M!" Then immediately, he would think, "What am I doing? Where am I? What is going on? What do I want?"

That was literally how his brain worked back then. He only told me the negative stuff, as in those emails, because he didn't want to give me "false hope." Whatever that is! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Even your H doesn't know what he wants - there is no way he can explain it to you right now. This is a path he has to find and follow all on his own. You can encourage, you can control you, but it is HIS decision. You must let go of expectation, control, "changing his mind." You must let go.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So what do you suggest?? Do I just go on and plan A and act like he didn't even say he wanted to leave? I have a hard time not bringing it up because I am a person who needs to know things. If he is planning on leaving I would like to know when. But maybe I should just ease off of the subject for now. Should I just wait to see what he is planning? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Go on and Plan A and act like he doesn't want to leave. Love him, don't smother him. Do not bring up his leaving. I know you need to know things - me too! But you cannot. You must let go of that. Ease WAY off the subject, as far off as you can. No pressure to stay, no pressure to go. Delight in the day! Keep your home cheerful, clean, happy. At every opportunity, welcome him into soothing family and home. Welcome, do not pressure. And lastly for you, he has no clue what his plans are. The more you ask, the more he tries to firm the plans up - and not in your favor! Trust me. The more you push right now, the further he will go from you. Think "wild animal."

GC -

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> SS, have you and your H talked about those emails since? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have we ever talked about those emails! What would you like to know? H remembers feeling everything he felt, and he knows it felt VERY real to him. VERY REAL. And he cannot believe he felt that way, and it scares him that the mind is capable of such self-delusionment. See, in order to justify his EA/PA, he thought since he was a good person and didn't think cheating was right, that he must really be in love with OW - in order to do those horrible things, it must be true love, meant to be, destiny. Sound familiar?!?!

And his brain spent a lot of time and energy convincing him that he loved her and didn't love me. I have said, "But how could you not love me?" And he says, "I HAD to not love you. I had to love her. That is the way it had to be for me to live with myself at the time."

Through IC H was able to forgive himself. Once he started down that path, the "in love" fantasy quickly dropped away. That brought with it it's own set of grief - all this and I didn't even love her? But . . . what's done is done. H is back home. Our boys are so happy. And I love him. We will heal, together.

Any other questions you have, I will be more than happy to give it my best shot!

SS

SS, I figured those emails would have come up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I'm looking at things on the OM/OMW side right now. OMW and I are talking a fair amount and she's too firewalled in to post here. To tell you the truth, I think their M has a better chance of being saved than mine.

From what OMW tells me, OM has talked a lot like those emails: I've been faking it for years at the expense of my own individuality, I agreed to have another child just to make you happy, blah blah blah. Now his rap is, I made a decision and I have to stick to it.

But he has a history of being a very principled little OM, and I feel like he has a better chance of pulling his head out than the sparrow does. She is pursuing him aggressively I think, though we don't really know where the A stands at this point.

OMW is hoping for an opportunity to spend a little time with him, but she is also quite tempted to believe his fogtalk, probably because he believes it so sincerely. I don't know what to ask, I guess. He's insisting that this is the real him, and in their marriage he wasn't being himself. And his W has a hard time dismissing it.

GC

SML - sorry to climb on your thread that way. I thought this was right in step with what your WH is saying, so it might be okay to get into a little...

GC

Is this not exactly what my H wrote in one of those emails???

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's insisting that this is the real him, and in their marriage he wasn't being himself. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is scary! From a script! Literally, near the end (after the first couple months), I almost felt like getting out the popcorn and watching the show! It's like we all have our little scripts, and we all just go around and around and around, in the same patterns and roles.

Until someone, usually the BS who has educated themselves and gotten a lot of help from friends and family and MB, pops themselves out of the "play." All of a sudden, everything changes.

greycloud and SML, I am NOT exaggerating. As soon as I finally GOT this MB program, everything became very clear. My path became so obvious, when before it seemed obuse.

I really think that ancient saying "If you love something, set it free . . . if it comes back, it was yours, if it doesn't, it never was" is around for a reason. It is a universal truth, to me. Once you can anticipate, even predict, behavior, it takes a lot of the sting, hurt, and mystery out of that behavior. Instead of "Oh, I can't believe he said that to me! I am so hurt! I am so confused! I am so lost!" It's more like "Good grief, not this again. Can't he/she think up anything original? Didn't he say this same thing to me 2 days ago? What the he!! is he talking about?" See the difference?

I began doing my own thing. Once you do not argue with them about their feelings, try to rationalize their feelings, try to change their feelings or prove their feelings could not and are not real - they have nothing to focus on but themselves! It is the darnedest thing. Just agree with them. "I know you are unhappy." "I understand that is how you feel right now."

Sometimes, I just smiled and nodded at my H. Then, I carried on with what I was doing. Sorry, life goes on. Dinners need to be cooked, the house needs to be cleaned, need to work, kids need to be played with, etc. For a while, I shut down. Then I thought, if he leaves forever, what is my plan? Well, my plan is that I am a great person, even without him thinking so. I deserve to be happy. And I was. All on my own. That was a big deal for me. And I am glad I grew up finally.

SS

And that was how Amy became the spiderslayer extrordinaire.

Realised she could do it on her own if she had to.

The latest superhero (or superwoman) was born.

Hi there
C&S