Hi.
I've started this new thread as seperate to the 'My Story' thread as I don't want to clutter up the other thread and force it of into a different tangent.
I've just seen my wife face to face. She had arranged for an estate agent to value the house and had to be here.
This was the first time we have seen or spoken to each other for 6 days.
She arrived before the estate agent and I offered her a coffee and she refused. She said hello to our son who was playing upstairs with a friend and came back downstairs. I asked her if we could talk and she agreed.
First I gave her the bad news. Although I wanted the house sold I wasn't prepared to make me or my son homeless in the meanwhile. I told her I had contacted the local council and was waiting for them to rehouse me. She was not pleased at all. She accused me of changing my mind, told me that I didn't have any choice in the sale of the house going through and even threatened to contact her solicitor and go down the legal route. I explained that I wasn't doing this to hurt her but to protect my son. I don't want either of us to be homeless.
I then dropped another bombshell. I told her that my son had said that the OM had slept in the same room as him and that the OM had taken him out unchaperoned. She got very defensive again and said that yes, the OM had slept in the same room as my son. It was whilst they were visiting her dad. The OM's daughter had slept in the same room as well. Yes, the OM had taken my son out to Burger King without an escort. I told her I was not happy with this and if it continued I would contact my solicitor. I was getting quite angry at this point but contained it a lot better than my wife. She then accused me of lying to a mutual friend. Apparently our mutual friends mum had contacted my wifes mum and said that I was doing everything and sorting everything out. I stressed that this was not true. What I had told the mutual friend was that since my wife had left I was left to ensure that all the bills were being paid with no help from my wife.
The estate agent visited, valued the house and we all calmed down a little. It's a small world. The estate agent recognised me from a friendship with my brother and for a while I was the focus of conversation. I explained my position concerning the sale of the house and he was very understanding. He did say that the sale of the house would take a couple of months to go through and we would not get the money straight away. He left and my wife and me had another little chat. We were a lot calmer this time. We talked about the money I was giving her each week for my son. Even though we have joint custody I still give my wife more money than I can afford simply to ensure that my son does not go without. I told her that as I have had my son for a week she didn't need to have any money this week. Again more defensiveness from her. She told me that the equal custody we shared was not legal. I asked her to make it legal then. She seemed shocked but agreed to it. We talked about the OM sleeping in the same room as my son again. She asked me what I was going to do about it? If I was going to get a solicitor involved would I tell her so she would be prepared. Yeah right! I told her that everythig I was doing was for the benefit and safety of my son. I also told her that depending on what the future held, if she ended living with the OM (she has been offered a bedsit... How fall the mighty) then I would be watching the OM's every move. If I had any suspicions that my son was in any danger then I would involve the police and my solicitor immediately. This might go against the grain of what I've been saying in my 'My Story' thread but to be honest I was thinking on my feet. My mind and my resolve had abandoned me. She seemed ok with what I said.
I did have one moment of weakness I'm ashamed to say. Just before she left I asked her if she had missed me since she walked out. She effectively said yes. She elaborated that she had felt like that this morning until her mum had told her what our mutual friends mum had said in an email and that had made her angry.
Throughout her visit I told her that I still cared and worried about her. I don't know if these are lovebusters and I don't know if I've pushed her further away by confronting her on a couple of issues. What I do know is that she is under a lot of pressure from her dad who also owns a third of the house to sell quickly. If she doesn't get a bedsit by the end of the month then she is effectively homeless as her step-dad turns 65 and with her staying there it will effect his pension. The estate agent made it quite clear that the house wouldn't be put on the market until september at the earliest.
How did I do?
What's the verdict?
I feel in retrospect I could have handled it a bit better but like I said, my heart was in my mouth the whole time.
I'm seeing her again tomorrow at the same time (another estate agent) and I want advice on how to act then. Point out my mistakes and point me in the right direction.
God, I'm shaking bad.

Sorry to bump this to the top again but I've just been out for a walk with my son to calm myself down. I got the shakes real bad after my wife left. It's not anger or frustration, just.... I dunno, hurting?
There's a couple of things I want to clarify in my post.
When I told my wife I would not allow me and our son to be homeless I told her that I did want the house to be sold. I just wanted to wait until we had a house or a flat ready to move into.
Whilst on the subject of the house (at the start when things started to get a little heated) my wife said about her being homeless at the end of the month if she didn't get the bedsit. I thought this would be a good time to remind my wife that the OM had given up a house already. He could have transferred up to this area by doing a house swap (the house he gave up was being rented from his local council) I said to her that maybe the OM had lied to her or bent the truth a little. She had no answer to that.
She did say that the she had seen the flat that the OM owns. (long story. Originally he told her that he owned a flat but his best friend was renting it from him. Later changed his story and said that it was his flat but in his dads name.)
I couldn't think of a suitable reply to my wife.
My wife kindly reminded me that she could have taken the easy route out, took our son out of school and moved down to be with the OM. I felt obliged to remind her that she would only be hurting our son if that was the case (as if she isn't already.) I asked for help with paying the mortgage in the meantime. She reiterated that the OM and her didn't have any money. I mentioned that she had had enough time to get a job. She told me what sort of job could she get on a friday, saturday and sunday. (the answer is a weekend job or a part-time job but I didn't want to lose to many points with my wife at this point!) I did say that my hours were flexible and I could easily work the weekend and have my son during the weekdays. I said about the OM's business. She told me he has a job interview tomorrow. He's going to give up a lucrative business to work up here? I'm still not sure that he ever co-ran a business.
I felt really weird when my wife told me that she had missed me at times. Is this a good sign or a false hope this early on into her affair?
I felt that I lost a few points during her visit. I could have handled things so much more calmly. Still, at least I didn't raise my voice to her or ask her to come back home. If she could only see what she is giving up. She's willing to live in a bedsit with our son and the OM because of the fog. Wow!

I've read your earlier posting and am sorry things are moving forward so quickly. However, I agree with the other posters that you must do what is in both yours and your son's best interest. So my question for you is, have you considered filing for full custody of your son and having him live with you rather than your wife and OM?

Thankyou for replying faith. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Filing for full custody is a possibility and it is something that I want. I wouldn't do it to hurt my wife (though she wouldn't see it that way) I would do it to stabilise my son. My son has told me that he would prefer to live in this house with me (and mummy if she ever comes to her senses.) Trouble is;
1) My wife has left me in financial poopoo. At this moment in time I don't know how long I can continue juggling the bills and keeping the house afloat.
2) I live in England. The law almost always favours the mother. My wife is not an alchoholic or a drug addict. She has no criminal record or bad habits. She is a good mother (current behaviour excepted.) My solicitor has already told me that I would probably lose if I fought her. I would be financially ruined and would have to rely on her charity to see my beautiful boy. There is a group called Fathers For Justice that is currently fighting the courts for fairer changes in the law but until then, Mummys always right.
3) The fact that my wife has had an affair means diddly squat in the eyes of the UK law to the best of my knowledge. It is simply not taken into consideration.

The only things I have going for me is that fact that I am a good loving father and have been a good loving husband and that my son if asked, would chose to live with me. I have never been unemployed. I have no criminal record and I can get hold of some excellent character references from some very upstanding professional people. Not much is it?

Please feel free to correct me if I have been wrong on any of the above points. I am such a novice at this that I feel a lot of research is in order.

Faith, hate to ask you but how did you think my wifes visit went today?

struggling, why would she go anywhere with your son? She is homeless and living with her internet boyfriend. Your W should only be allowed to see your son if she comes to your house. Your boy shouldn't be in that position at all. He should NEVER be around some unknown creep your W picked up off the internet. Right now, you cannot trust the judgement of your W to have your son's welfare at heart. She is, frankly, not in her right mind right now.

As far as giving her money for him, I would stop that immediately. You are simply FINANCING her affair. Let her suffer the consequences of her actions.

I am also unsure why you are selling your house? For what possible good reason would you be selling your house at a time when your boy most needs stability? Your wife's affair is unlikely to last, so why are you making decisions like this?

Struggling, I see you missing alot of opportunities to help end this affair and protect your boy. If you start taking up for yourself and your boy you can make her affair VERY DIFFICULT. But as it now, you are essentially helping her by making it EASY for her to DESTROY your family. You are supposed to PROTECT your family from this sort of thing, not HELP her.

P.S. struggling, Frankd documents EVERY interaction with his wife along with the date. Please start doing that to protect yourself.

struggling you did so very very well...

really good...

state your boundaries over what is acceptable in relationship to your son....
don't power struggle them...
don't push and pull...

state them softly, consistantly and move on...

and now see here is where you introduce aspects of plan a...

you can view meetings you two have two ways...

one is you and she meet over this and that and YOUR actions feed right in to her going to OM and reporting back all the negative made up things about you that she needs to jusdify their affairs...

he's controlling me..
he's manipulating me...
he's forcing me to choose..

wah wah wah wah...blah blah blah blah...

hand her no loaded weapons...

so you charm her...from her peripheral...
bring her something to the meeting...some small insigificant token...

here's a cup of coffee thought you'd like...
stopped at KRISPYKREME and brought you one...
(krispykremes are gooey donuts over here....you could bring fish-n-chips... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> but a small token of chocolate never hurts either...

so you bring her something small stupid insignificant....and you bring yourself one as well...so as it's not some huge demonstrative gesture...but more it's a reminder of those small considerate things married people do for eachother...and it's something you KNOW she likes...because you KNOW her....
OM can't compete with that....
not even close...

so you bring her something give it to her and move on to something else..
no waiting for a thankyou..
no big deal..
just plant the seed...

you also work things in to the conversation that she is NOT expecting...
ask if she's eating all right...and you worry about her sometimes...

ask if she's sleeping well and hope her health is good....

you want to get her attention give her the EXACT opposite of what she expects...

when each of us goes in to a situation where we perceive conflict...we are comforted and re-assured that we know how we will react and how our partner reacts...

conflict with a spouse is known...and not very scary...and one can almost get a game plan on before even meeting...

conflict with a stranger..very scary...we have no idea how the other will react...

so if you react differently...
calmly
logically
even upbeat and joyfully...
it will throw her for a loop AND you will get her attention...

who is this man that looks like my husband who instead of powerstruggling and argueing like I expected is acting different...she will think...

you also should learn to babble back to some of her insane things...give them no value or weight...

the comments about what you told a friend....just a means to deflect focus on HER actions and HER behavior...

so tomorrow...
lool great..
smell even better...

if you are living in the home make it clean warm and inviting...a haven....so to speak...

have music on in the background..
set the mood and tone with details that really mean nothing...

walk away from her at one point and whistle...
women are very curious.....
what's he so happy about???

send her back to OP with nothing to report...

don't ask her if SHE misses you...tell her you miss her...

speak for yourself...
seek nothing from her....

read up on plan a.....
you can do both..
strong boundaries for son
plan aing and charming her BUTTOCKS off...

ark

double post

<small>[ August 05, 2004, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: Faith1960 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by StrugglingToMakeSense:
<strong>

Faith, hate to ask you but how did you think my wifes visit went today? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Overall, I think you handled yourself well. Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is that you cannot control your wife, only yourself and your own situation. The abruptness with which your wife is moving forward is rather alarming, however. While I understand you want to get along with your wife, don't make the situation easy for her. Set some strong boundaries and don't cross them. For example,

DO NOT GIVE YOUR WIFE ANY MONEY! You are not legally obligated to support her or OM. Until you have a court order, do not give her any money for your son. Whatever son needs, purchase it yourself. Pay all bills direct. If she needs food, purchase groceries or arrange for an account at a local market. This way you are meeting your son's needs for support and not your wife's.

If you are financially able, stall the sale of the house as long as possible. This will make it more difficult for her and potentially create upset in her other relationships with OM and family.

Since your wife has already moved out, it's difficult if not impossible to implement what's known as Plan A. Suggest you move to an immediate Plan B, and no contact with wife other than what is absolutely necessary to facilitate parenting of son. When she starts complaining about how difficult and unfair you are being, remind her that this was her choice, you are doing what you need to do. Once your wife begins to realize the consequences of her actions, the hope is she will begin to come out of the fog, and consider reconciliation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She told me that the equal custody we shared was not legal. I asked her to make it legal then. She seemed shocked but agreed to it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a great boundary. Since she is not employed, can she afford to move forward with this?

Finally, in response to your other posting, do not share any information with mutual acquaintenances that you do not want to get back to your wife, other than you are extremely hurt and open to the idea of reconciation.

Good Luck!

I have to agree with Faith on this one. I think Plan B would slap her awake real quick. She has probably been able to hang on to this affair this long only because you have been propping her up and making it so easy. If she doesn't have you around to meet her needs and prop her up, the bottom will fall out very quickly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She told me that the equal custody we shared was not legal. I asked her to make it legal then. She seemed shocked but agreed to it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You hold all the cards here and surely she realizes this. If you take 100% custody, which you darn well should, there isn't much she can do about it. Here is your W's situation:

1. homeless
2. jobless
3. living with a bum she met on the internet
4. when has son, allows him to SLEEP with said internet bum
5. NO MONEY

I realize that the UK has adopted the mental illness of moral relativism much more than in the US, but I can't imagine that a judge would give her ANY custody in those circumstances.

Thanks for the replies people.

Had a good time out with mutual friends yesterday. Went bowling and afterwards had a burger and a chat.

I did mention that what I told them got back to my wife and she was pretty angry about it. Seems it was just a case of chinese whispers and the fact that my wife needs to blow steam in my general direction.

Spent most of the night thinking about my situation and I'm feeling more positive about it.

I've posted a long 'Plan' in the 'My Story' thread.... Let me know what you think?

ark, I like where you're coming from. I'm seeing my wife again today and I'm learning from yesterdays talk. I'll be calmer, happier and more attentive. A week ago I purchased a cuddly beanie from a charity shop but have refrained from giving it to my wife because I viewed it as an act of weakness. If I gave it to her today, no strings attatched and said 'I saw it and know you collect them?' would it be viewed as a weakness on my part? I want to plan A as much as possible but I'm not getting the oppurtunity. Read my plan in my other thread and let me know what you think. Is it possible to plan A from a distance. I think I have already sown seeds of doubt in my wifes mind concerning the OM. Yesterday I raised the possibility to my wife the the OM had lied to her. She knows that he has lied to her because of the way she replied to me.

melody and faith. Please read my latest post in the 'My Story' thread as I'm addressing a lot of the issues you're talking about. What do you think of my plan? The main thrust of my plan is to protect my son and force my wife and the OM to stand on their own 2 feet. It's all about pressure. I am funding my wife's affair at the moment and if I can get my wife to agree to a legal seperation on my terms then I can sit back
and watch the OM start screwing up. Even though we are seperated I'm still meeting a lot of my wifes needs at the moment. This has to stop.

Thankyou all!