about a year ago my wife got a new client that she talked about alot (joe ) she told me that
he had burned his house down and been jailed. I think he was trying to collect insurance.
at a later time she told me she had been going with him to look at property for an investment for us.
she did not ask me to go with them. I told her I did not like this and so I went with them from then on.
she gave him her cell number and he called her all the time he was the only client she has that calls her on the week end and at night. I told her I didn't like that and she said she was not doing anything.
and refused to ask him to stop even though it had caused some bad arguments and almost cause our divorce. I started to look at cell phone records and there were 3 to 5 calls per week day from anahiem,ca that gave no number only saying recieved call from anaheim, in march I told her about this and ask her who was calling her she said she had no idea who it was. but when I checked after this there were never any calls from anahiem again.
then she decided to get an operation to her stomack to reduce her weight. she was off on medical leave for one month he called her about every other day. at one point I told her I felt I
had a right to talk to him about his calling my wife all the time and she exploded and said if you ever talk to him I will divorce you. after about three weeks of her being off work he started to ask her to
come to his office and train some of his employee's she didn't say yes or no. but then her old boss
from her last job called her and said they were going to have a reunion at temecula creek inn. the day of the reunion she said she would be gone about to hours to lunch with them. after two hours I called her and she did not answer 30 min later I called again and it went right to voice mail 15 min later
I tryed again and the same thing happend. she was gone for 4 hours she said she did not hear the phone
and does not know why it went to voice mail after that. He continues to call her cell after hours and
on the week end. I ask her why she never ask him to stop if it caused us so many problems
she got very defensive and said she knew she wasn't doing anything wrong so she didn't think she should have him stop. she flat out refuses to exept any responsiblity for any of the problems we have had
and is try to convince me that I am crazy and need help. her birth day was coming up on sunday.

I was suppost to be somwhere at 4:30 it got changed to 5:00 I didn't tell her and came to her office.
he was sitting there at her desk a vase of flowers sitting next to him on the desk. they talked about business I started to wonder if there was a card that came with the flowers. she was looking down at a
file I walked behind her and sat down on a file cabinet and started to peek under her desk at her purse
she spun around with a look of terror on her face and stuck her watch in front of my eyes and ask "aren't you late?" then she turned and scooted between me and her desk and started typing he left
some client came in and wanted to go over a file I poked around a little under desk but did not see anything. then she had to go out to make copies for this guy but she went up front first then the receptionist came in and sat at her desk and positioned herself between me and the desk. I told her I
would empty the trash but did not find anything in there. then we left.

we had some aruments about it over the week end monday came and she called me and said your going to hate me but joe ask me out to lunch for my birthday I said not a good idea she insisted because she was going to tell him not to call any more and that I thought there was somthing going on between them.
she said she would call me on the cell and leave it on so I could hear the whole thing and she did
but she never ask him anything it was all just casual conversation.

the next day I took her to work and told her that I had been watching her office somtimes
she said it's ok I have nothing to hide "stalk me if you want to" at 3:00 I was supost to be somwhere
I finished fast and when to her office there he was again as soon as I walked in he said "you must be stalking me your here every time I am"

I don't think I'm crazy.
when I bring up these points to her she distorts the facts or just says I don't know why that happened
but you are making all this up in your head.

I know in my heart she cheated.

we had decided to put our house up for sale some months ago and move far away. She is very exited to sell it and leave here and says there's nothing here she can't leave behind. I know she realizes she made a huge mistake and wants to run away from it. I can't get her to admit the truth. I am a very patient loving person,
I have told her that I loved her enough to take anything and work it out with her and I meant it. But I
don't know what to do if she won't admit it and exept responsiblity for her actions. I am thinking of cheating on her but I have never done anything like that before. I have to sit here everyday while he is up there at work with her it drives me crazy.

Funny but I just can't bring myself to leave her because it would make her unhappy.

I guess I'm a push over.

I don't know what to do. I know I would be happier with somone else.

Yeah, she's cheating. She may not have slept with him yet, but she's having an affair, at least the dreaded emotional affair (EA).

What do you know about this man? Is he married?

Do you have any children?

How long have you been together/married?

Stop following her. It won't change what she's doing. It will only push her away. They're hanging out together badmouthing you and calling you a stalker. Stop snooping. It does you no good anyway.

Unless you'd rather end your marriage, or have a custody fight in store for you.

Wanting to protect your marriage in a crisis is not in my view being a pushover, my man.

GC

He is married with 2 kids.

we have 2 small kids together.

We have been married for 6 years.

Even before this my wife would never admit she was wrong about anything.

I have been a stay at home dad for 5 years.
I know and she knows that if we split I will probablly get the kids a big chunk of equity
and alimony. so I wonder how much of what she is doing now is because of those loses and not the lose of me. I have taken resonsibilty for my part
in this as being very distant for a few years.
and probably driving her to this but she is very selfish anyhow. I would have never cheated no matter how far apart we got. I have written a letter explaining that I will never believe her
no matter how persasive she is. but she want me to believe her really bad.

even though she has totally changed in that last few weeks I keep going up and down trying to believe her then getting down again when I think
of all the things I have seen her do in the last year. How does she get that ice sickle to pump blood. how does she look at our 3 year old and swear on his life.

You are very early in this. The addiction of an affair is very strong. The WS turns into a liar like you've never seem before.

Please expose the emotional (and maybe physical) affair to his wife.

Thanks for the input, it helps alot.

tonight she wanted to make a list of all the reasons I thought she cheated and all the reasons
to believe her. she wrote down the points I made in the original post here. and said it was comical. and proceeded to give me more of her bs
about each reason with arrogance like I was some kind of idiot for even thinking such things.
then I gave her the few reasons that I did beleive
her and she started to add ridiculous non factual
things to that list. in the middle of all this
she stop to say look how your boys put there socks in there shoe's just like you. is she trying to tell me somthing here, maybe i'm just paranoid. anyhow sleeping in the motor home again tonight thanks for listening to me.

poorjim, I don't get it. Look how your boys put their socks in their shoes just like you? Is that a problem, that your boys emulate their father? Duh, that's what boys do. Is this something that annoys her?

She doesn't like you very much right now. She is angry with you. It's time to start reflecting on your part in making your M vulnerable to what's happening, if you want to save it.

If your W's relationship with the other man is innocent, then she won't mind you calling his W to discuss it. That one always separates the affairs out pretty quickly.

As for being a paranoid spouse - have you ever been unusually jealous or possessive? I don't think you're mistaken about your W's relationship with this other man, I just wonder if your past behavior is being used against you.

In any case, your W should not be commiserating with another man this way. If she needs a man to be her best chum, that man should be you. Call the man's wife right away.

GC

Greycloud thanks for your advice it means alot to me.

the other day I ask her the question once again
why with all our problems we had did she never
ask him to stop calling her. she said why should
I make his life hell there's no affair and he will
just laugh and go home and tell his wife then she will begin to suspect him and ask him questions
and make his life hell.

I would like to go talk to his wife. I know if mine found out she would leave and divorce me
but I am getting to the point that I don't care if she does. my dad says I should go talk to her to. any advice on how to approch her and what to say? How does this seperate affiars from friendships?

Go with your gut. You may be wrong, but sadly, I doubt it. Both times during my 19-year M that I've had serious uneasy feelings and my husband started being extra secretive, or confrontational, or just plain wierd....I suspected there was an OW, and no matter how hard he tried to convince me that I was just being paranoid, I was RIGHT!

LL

I maybe a little possessive now but in the past she has gone on chick trips and I didn't care.

my wife (I love her to death and am very attracted to her) was close to 300lbs up untill march there aren't alot of guys that likem that big and I am not arrogent but I look pretty good
am slim well built and get flirted with somtimes.
the OM is short fat and an average looking guy
other wise. his wife is a slim very cute chick
people wonder why she's with him so I'm told.

my wife says why would he want me if he has her
and why would I want him if I have you.

and this kinda makes sense to me.

we are in a great place financially now and are
ready to semi retire to buy a house and motel on a lake in another state. she keeps me totaly confused with her behavour.

maybe I should just learn to live with it. and tell her I beleive her. give her another chance
with out telling me the truth.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by poorjim:
<strong>
maybe I should just learn to live with it. and tell her I beleive her. give her another chance
with out telling me the truth. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> No JIM...NO..don't pretend.
Look Jim say you move away and get this nice place, there will be other guys JIM other opportunities for the same crap to happen. You must deal with this issue or you run the risk of it repeating. Is that a chance you want to take?

My suggestion is to tackle the issues in your M, go to a MC and take steps to make your M better. The last thing you want is to have your life just perfect the way you've always dreamed and then get hit with the sledgehammer called reality. Pretending is never the answer.
Good luck and read more of Dr. Harley's work, it's been helping me understand the changes I must make in myself to help my M.

Hang in there.

<small>[ August 06, 2004, 02:49 AM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

Any advice on how to start this conversation with
his wife? should I just tell her everything I posted here? or should I just talk about how good
there friendship is.

You could show her the cell phone records. I just called the OW's H in my situation and told him straight out my suspicions and proof. Tell her now.

You are not crazy. Trust your gut.

My H tried to make me think I was crazy and everything was all in my head. He also would get annoyed an angry with me for nothing.

The looks thing doesn't matter...it is mostly in how they feel about themselves when they are with the OP.

She sounds like she is using the Infidelity play book. It is an EA at the very least. Maybe she was waiting for scars to heal before jumping into bed with the OM because she may be self-conscious about her weight?

You should read Harley's Surviving an Affair.

We should not to anything to be the cause of our spouse's unhappiness. She should give up this 'relationship' and go NC for the sake of your marriage.

<small>[ August 06, 2004, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: Trix ]</small>

I have had a change of heart since the weekend.
I was looking for a lawyer and going to divorce her asap. she was very depressed as well. Then
on monday she said she would take a leave of absence from work to be with me because I could not stand to think she would be up there with him
and she is the manager of the company it's very hard for her to walk away from responsiblity like that. Monday was dismal we hardly talked.


tuesday she said she would call him and tell him what I thought was going on and I could here the whole thing. I suggested that she call him from her cell and tell him she was on the road and say
we need to talk about my husband thinking he would say somthing about the affair if he thought
she was alone. His and her reaction to this conversation has led me to believe nothing happend.

And that she really does take her job to seriously and is mortified to think she is going to let somone know about our personal problems such as this client who she says she's really not even that close of a friend to (she never called him on the week end or at night). after seeing her
explode monday and beat her legs till bruised saying she never cheated on me while saying she wished she was dead.

I think I was wrong but had
some reasons to suspect foul play. I think the problem was I really didn't know my wife. And I
knew that I had put alot of emotional distance
between us by not paying much attention to her
for the last few years so I thought if she had the motive and opportunity she would have cheated.


I don't think she did but if i'm wrong I don't think she would have ever told me the truth anyhow
after swearing on her childrens lives. So she had to be an incredible monster,lier,ect. or a saint
for putting up with me and staying with me. So I
will try to be a great husband and see if we can avoid ever having to go through this again.

Thank you all for your advice and support.

betterjim