Merenia,

WHO is 100% sure????? Did you meet someone here who is???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Nothing is 100% sure accept the love of God!
IMHO

Blessings,
Atruheart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

atruheart,

Thanks for writing!

I kinda realised as I was typing that that I was expecting the impossible...!!!

I have never trusted him completely, but I have trusted him enough to cope with the constant travelling he does in his career with little complaint or worry - in hindsight unwise considering the problems in the relationship.

Now my trust level is at an all time low - how does one begin to rebuild trust?

He leaves for a tour in Europe tomorrow for 9 days. Great timing huh!

Merenia

Merenia,

How nice that you were able to spend some time together before he leaves for Europe. How awful would it have been if he had left without being able to mend the fence somewhat first!

Why don't you take this as a good sign that things are starting to change for the good in your marriage. He looked bad and seemed remorseful, this is a good thing!

Why not give him the benefit of the doubt and really have some quality time together today before he leaves?

Weaver,

I've been feeling so cynical and suspicious lately - thanks for reminding me to see the positive in the negative.

He is sorry and it does count for something.

Thank you.

Merenia

I'm furious today. Husband has been in Europe for 4 days and didn't call me. He did call my 12yr daughter on day 3 of his trip. I called him numerous times on his cell phone yesterday and he picked up after about the 7th time. Said he was 'in a crisis' because he was driving himself, lost and late for something, then the phone cut out. At this point I had no idea what city, let alone country he was in, and didn't have a hotel phone number. I kept calling, left a message and finally, hours later he called me back.
I asked him why he didn't have the decency to give me a call to let me know where he is, his response " I contacted your daughter". Is it just me or is that horribly manipulative? He then said he was too scared to call me. I did get very angry at him before he left - I am going through the whole range of emotions - I feel the anger is justified considering all the lies and his selfish behaviour.
Now of course his phone is switched off and I have no way to contact him. He is on tour and I don't know his itinerary, only his flight details back home.
I don't know what to do - some of my friends are advising me to at least give marriage counselling a try - right now I don't know whether its worth it. He is definitely having a midlife crisis and what with the groupies around in his career, the lies, and his lack of commitment to me....
Anyone have any comments?

I feel like I am going mad.
Last night after literally hours of trying to call H (at first phone switched off, then left to ring unanswered) he finally calls me back, but says 'Can I call you back in an hour. I'm driving.' This is typical, calling me when he is doing something (about to board the airplane, checking in etc), so he has an excuse to get off the phone quickly - its as if the man never has a spare minute in the day. I did manage to glean what country he is in at the moment. My frustrated response to his request to call me back later (which he often doesn't) led to him saying 'I don't need this sh*t' and hanging up on me.
I know I gotta stop thinking about what he is doing over there. What is hurting me it that he doesn't seem to have any desire to reassure me or let me know where he is... in spite of all the lies he told me about his last trip away. What really hurts is that all his remorse and talk of reconcilliation since then now just seems to have been insincere.
Am I expecting too much? I feel suspicious that he is almost never contactable on his cell phone, he doesn't call me of his own accord and he doesn't let me know where is. I'm wondering if he's with another woman.
What can I do?

Merena - are you giving him too much benefit of the doubt?

Has he EVER shown the capability of having a commited relationship?

Will he ever NOT be in an environment of wanton temptation?

Here's what I advised several days ago:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong> Please evaluate the wisdom of trying to save this marriage. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you sure you want to do this - attempt to save this marriage?

I suggest you start keeping score. Points FOR keeping the marriage vs points against it.

Backdate the scoring from the last time you had a serious conversation about this.

Keep us informed of the score. The clock is ticking.

WAT

PS - I have YOUR best inerests in mind.

Worthatry -

The first time I have really cried was after reading your post.

I have not let myself cry until now. A close friend has remarked on this and I said that I just couldn't.

Apologies if I'm not being particularly articulate. My english has suffered since living in Asia.

If I'm really honest with myself, I don't think there has really been a marriage between us, from the beginning, to save.

His attitude towards me completely changed almost overnight once we decided to marry. Prior to that I was convinced I had found my soulmate. There was so much fun, joy and laughter then. I guess I have clung to those memories of the beginning of our relationship, and when he put up a wall between us, I thought that if I gave him more, and tried to be a fantastic wife, he would be loving towards me again. It seems that my goal has been to work on the relationship, to regain the itimacy, and his goal has been to create distance.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Has he EVER shown the capability of having a commited relationship?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">His most serious relationship prior to me, a 3 year engagement, ended, according to him, because she became frustrated with his inability to express his feelings and 'tell her what was going on'. He also said that he thought she cheated on him, but wasn't sure.

I doubt if he ever really commited himself to me. I think after he proposed, he freaked out, and didn't want the responsibility of an instant family (I have a daughter from a previous relationship). I felt his withdrawal but thought if I loved him more and helped him with his career I could fix things. A common mistake I guess.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Will he ever NOT be in an environment of wanton temptation? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He has been in the music industry all his working life, and switched careers within that industry not long before we met. He has expressed marked dissatisfaction with his career but said at our last serious conversation that he doesn't know how to do anything else, and that he he started late in his current career (he is a DJ). He is 38, and in a young mans game. I know that scares him. I'm p*ssed because I put all my energies into helping him get to where he is now - I organized his first international tour, got him sponsorship - I have willingly contributed to him being in this environment in an effort to win his love back.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Points FOR keeping the marriage vs points against it.
Backdate the scoring from the last time you had a serious conversation about this.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm gonna have to think hard about this and get back to you on this one.

Thank you so much for listening. I guess part of the reason I cried at your response is because I feel like I've been thrown a lifeline.

Merenia

<small>[ August 16, 2004, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: Merenia ]</small>

AGAINST

Emailed my daughter today after I specifically asked him not to do this (don't want him to continue to put her in the middle like this, and I feel strongly he should be contacting me, his wife, as to his whereabouts, not my child) - to say that his cellphone would probably be out of coverage due to being in the mountainside somewhere in Austria... where exactly he did not say. Of course cannot reach him on his phone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I didn't mean to make you cry - just think.

Please, do not rely on my words alone. Consider seeing a counselor or working with one of the MB counselors. I and others here are only amateurs.

What could be the reason he's avoiding you? Because you want respect?

WAT

Oh, so he is in the music industry...why didn't you say so. Well atleast he's not a musician. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

No seriously, my daughters dad is a musician, and I am no longer with him because I decided he was not capable of being faithful with all the young fans throwing themselves at his feet all the time, and I just wasn't up to competing anymore.

WAT's right of course, you are young with no children together, so you must decide if he is even worth the trouble of fighting for. But while you are trying to decide you need some answers, because you do love him (mostly) and because you need truth before you can really make a lasting decision.

I suggest that you try to chill for now, think on WAT's questions to you, and make some plans about how you can find out if he is having an affair. Asking him isn't going to work, as you have already found out.

If I were you, knowing what I know now, I would invest in some spyware i.e. voice activated recorder, phone recorder - something along those lines and try and find out what he is up to exactly.

The people here can give you advice on detective work.

Take care Merenia, and I'm sorry his display of wanting to work on the marriage was so short lived.

Weaver

WAT -

You ARE helping me to think, its good for me to try and get some clarity. The tears came because I am really starting to think about and confront these issues after being in denial for so long.

I don't know why he is avoiding me. But now I can see that he has being doing that for sometime, its just blatant now.

I am going to make inquiries today about finding a counsellor.

One good thing about this situation is that I've been hitting the gym everyday with a friend. It takes my mind off things, and I feel much better afterwards.

Weaver -

Actually, he was a musician before! Then he switched to DJing.
Why didn't someone warn me before that they make bad husbands! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (Apologies to any male musicians out there...)

I will ask about spyware on another thread. I do feel a strong need to get to the bottom of things, for my own peace of mind.
I regret not doing more snooping before confronting him...

Merenia

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Worthatry:
I suggest you start keeping score. Points FOR keeping the marriage vs points against it.Backdate the scoring from the last time you had a serious conversation about this.
[QUOTE]

FOR

H expressed remorse and regret for hurting me at last serious conversation

Made real attempts to express his feelings for the first time in a LONG time

Booked and paid for a night in a luxury hotel for me, a friend and my daughter last week so we could get out of the house (not sure about this one being a 'for' - seems motivated by guilt, and he has a pattern of giving expensive gifts when he goes away - I read recently how this can be a kind of counterfeit love - things being easier to give than himself, or his time. Its like he trys to buy his time away from me.


AGAINST

MAJOR LB: Has been virtually unreachable since going to Europe a week ago. The last time we spoke on the phone 4 days ago I was angry about his lack of contact - he hung up on me.
Cellphone permanently off or out of coverage since then. Not like he's in the Amazon or anything and can't get to a phone. No itinerary, hotel numbers or anything. Not sure what country he is in. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Called his manager yesterday who said he hasn't been able to contact him either - I believe him as he didn't organise the tour, H did. He expressed surprise when I told him H wasn't back yet, and said that he was pretty certain that H should have been back by now. H did give me a printout of his flight details there and back but I'm wondering if he just decided to extend his tour a few days to have a holiday - with girlfriend? Last gig I can find info about online was last weekend.

Since you have his flight details I suggest you go to the airport to see who he gets off of plane with. Hopefully the girl lives in your area and will offboard plane with him.

I believe WAT did this and caught his XW in the act.

Whether or not you should confront him if he is with girl, ask the others who have experience in this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
<strong>I believe WAT did this and caught his XW in the act.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Close - I caught WS meeting her OM on an arriving flight.

Merenia - do you mean that he gave you his flight details and his return date has already passed? And he didn't tell you he'd be "late"?

Two possibilities: he actually DID return on the scheduled date, but is avoiding you, OR he hasn't returned and is avoiding you. Which is worse?

Either is totally, completely, absolutlely unacceptable. Period.

I suggest you call the airline posing as his secretary and inquire as to whether he was on the return flight. Or ask his agent to do this.

Who has control of your finances? Do you have joint or separate bank accounts, investments, etc.? Own your home or rent, who is on the deed or lease?

WAT

weaver -

I very much doubt there would be a girl with him, any woman (possibly more than 1) he would be seeing would live in Europe - he has been going there 2-3 weekends a month for the past 6 months. The woman he originally admitted to sleeping with (but now completely denies saying he lied - this is in my first thread) lives in England. I noticed that he stopped giving me his hotel information on the last few tours, and said I could reach him on his international cellphone - yet it has always been difficult to do so. I did ask him to give me his hotel info on his trip before last, but didn't press the issue and he still neglected to let me know where he is staying.

worthatry -

sorry - I should clarify my suspicions about his flights -
His return flight on the printout he gave me is due in on Friday.
But his manager was very surprised about this, when I called him asking him if he knew where my husband was - he kept saying 'Isn't he back yet ?' and said that he was sure that he was supposed to be back by now as 'he has a lot of business to take care of' - meaning work stuff. A month or so ago H told me this tour would be 5-6 days, but told me just before he left it would be 9 days. I suspect his manager thinks this is weird because there may be no reason gig-wise as to him being away for this period of time. Usually gigs are on weekends and not early in the week. I have found promotional info for only 2 gigs last weekend. So why he is still away? I think there is a real possiblity he is spending time with someone else over there.
I didn't question his manager more about this because it felt a little awkward.

As to finances - its always been a little weird - everything is separate. He earns alot more than me and he pays most of the bills. It is difficult for me to find decent work here due to not being fluent enough in Japanese. There is also limited work opportunities here for women - I am a freelancer and my income is sporadic. He did give me access to an account before he left with some cash in it for expenses. We rent, and his name is on the lease. I am in a bad position. He said before he left he would take care of my daughter and I financially as he felt it was his responsiblity. I don't know for sure if I can count on that.

Thank for responding, hope what I wrote makes some sense. Feel like I have been rambling.

Merenia

Boy Merenia, you are in a very hard situation. My instinct would be to not be there when he comes home. Leave a note that you no longer wish to be in a marraige with such complete lack of respect for your feelings or your marraige.

Let the ball fall in his court and give him a little taste of the consequences of his totally inacceptable behavior.

Oh, that's right he already was staying with parents, then denied affair and said he wanted to work on your marriage. Now he pull this stunt.

And you need for him to come clean, before you can decide if you want to work on the marriage. Yep my instincts still say tough love until he can make a real commitment to you and the marriage, and give you the benefit of the truth.

You believed him last week, and it was bulls##t, he had his chance and blew it. Now it's time to play hard ball, in my opinion.

Weaver

Thanks Weaver for the advice.
I think you're right about me not being here when he gets home today. I feel so controlled by his behaviour and I think being available to him would send the wrong message. Its hard though because I do miss him of course.
He actually picked up the phone yesterday. He apologized for switching it off, he said it was because he didn't want to argue with me and didn't want to speak to anyone. I asked him if he realised the hell he had put me through, and he said yes.
I asked him whats being going on, he said he's been driving around doing gigs, alone, and thinking about us. I said I was skeptical about all that, he said it was true and that I will see that hes been working after I see the cash he made. Which he better hand over!
I still don't know what to believe; but I do know that I cannot accept this behaviour, its too hurtful and selfish. My anger seems to have subsided somewhat and I'm worried that when I see him I will be too nice, when I think I need to do the toughlove thing. I have organized a night out with friends tonight so I won't be at home.

Merenia

well silly me decided to be here when he got home.
He called me saying he wanted to talk, I said ok.
He actually held out presents in front of him like a peace offering when he came in.

I noticed he was wearing his wedding ring on his thumb when he came in, which he changed to his ring finger before he sat down.
Whats up with that?

Still maintains that he hasn't been cheating.
Has a nice tan for someone who has been working so hard nights.

I did manage to stay calm. At some point during the discussion I told him that as I was brought up as a Christian, so to me adultery is very wrong. I said that his attitude towards it bothered me. He asked me why I was so 'anal' about sex outside of marriage (!) His English is not perfect, but still...!

He also said that he didn't understand why he should have to let me know where he is, saying he wouldn't need to know where I was if I was overseas. Huh?

He admitted to being self-centred and immature which was big of him.

He gave me some money to change into yen from his gigs, but it was well short of what he said he would make. I asked him about this, as HE himself had said he would prove to me that he has been working this whole time by showing me the money he had made. Well, he made a whole bunch of excuses about that - had to pay for the presents for me and my daughter (blew that lie out of the water as he left the credit receipt in the bag, he didn't use cash, and that didn't account for the discrepancy), had to pay for own accommodation sometimes - unheard of if working, because the promoter pays. Then said he had already exchanged some of the money and put it in the bank - but had no receipt to show me. Then said he had no receipt because he had actually used the rest of the money to pay back a loan to a friend, and said he had been ashamed about it and hadn't wanted to say.

The lies are neverending.

Now he is angry and says I am unappreciative and acting like a policeman. He demanded back the gift he gave me, left the house and said he wasn't coming back.

I am tired of him and his bullsh*t.

I want to get rid of him.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />