See my other post (ultimate insult) to get the full story.

Does anyone else out there have a situation like mine - older wife, younger husband? Two great kids (ours) 14 & 10. None from previous marriages. We have known each other 17 years, and married 13.5.

My counselor (who saw H separately) says that for my H, his desire to be non-monagamous is really a midlife crisis, searching for a younger woman to spend the rest of his life with. Even though we have never had any age related issues, just the idea of my age as times goes on seems to be a factor for my H. In otherwords, in 15 years I will be 70, my H will be 55, and he is not comfortable with that. I am proud to be a very youthful looking 55, in good shape, seem to attract men of all ages, have no phyiscal problems, in better health than my H. I look about 10-15 years younger than I am, but of course, we all know that the bottom line is that I will begin to look old before my H does. I don't plan to have plastic surgery.

What does this mean in a relationship? Hey, it hasn't been a problem for the last 15 years - but it seems that H is scared of the future wtih me,and that this is his last chance to find someone more appropriate, age-wise, to spend the last part of his life with. He does not want a second family, has had a vasectomy.

So what does this age thing really mean? Is it all about appearances, I guess? Or is it really a legitimate issue - me growing older before him, and maybe even him not having anyone to grow old with, if I died at 80, and he was only 65. Do you throw away a great, loving relationship with the mother of your kids to plan ahead for a more appropriate match in your latter years? And what is more appropriate?

The normal situation is to settle down with someone close to your own age. So I guess we have always had this "non=normal" situation that has worked for us. We are not a mismatched couple, no one would mistake me for his mother. The majority of our friends are mid forties, sort of half way between our ages. There isn't any activity that my H enjoys that I don't enjoy either, and nothing particularly "older" that I do (whatever that means!)

Our sex life is great, I am in great shape, but do not have the body of a 20 year old, but I will say better than your average 35 year old! Going to the fitness center and working out is one thing we do together on a regular basis.

Anyone have any advice on this issue? My C says that my H will be hardpressed to find someone that meets all of his needs the way that I do, but that this age issue is at the heart of his desire to be free. Obviously, I can try to be a better wife, meet his EN's, but I sure can't change my age. To be honest, I did not even think this was an issue with our current situation - his desire to be non-monagamous, but our C pinpointed it immediately. H loves me, loves our life together, loves our kids, but doesn't want to spend the rest of his life with a woman who is 15 years older than him, regardless of how well suited we are for each other. Is this just a matter of reality and not a fantasy of my H's, who still has this picture of himself with the "ideal" wife, plenty of money and success? (he already has the latter).
Its like I just don't fit in to his "picture" of what he ideally wants in life.

Before we were married, before I got pregnant with our son (now 14), H told me he wanted to find someone "just like you, only 10 years younger" This was a joke at the time, as we were having a great time together dispite our age difference. And we got married and have continued to have a great time together, dispite our age difference, had another beautiful daughter. Take great vacations as a family and have great adult get aways too. Have a beautiful home, just bought the mountain cabin of our dreams. It seems that the more H is living his dream life, the more I seem to be the one piece that doesn't look right in the picture.

Any ideas or resources for me to turn to? I know we are not the normal couple, but maybe some of you know others in this situation who have made it work? Or maybe this is just a fact of life, completely understandable that my H would want someone new and younger, and I should just exit gracefully. Too bad we love each other and our kids so much.

Hi Everhopeful -

Your post shook me up so I had to respond!

Similar situation as yours except it's my H that is 18 years older than me.

When H & I met, we clicked. Liked the same things, liked to do the same things, I felt like I had known him forever, we could talk to each other, etc. When he asked me to marry him, I tried to consider our age difference...especially in the future...felt comfortable with it and M'd him.

Lately though, I find myself thinking about it all over again. I find myself thinking that I should be with someone my own age.

Why now?

Is it because of H's last A? Is this tied into recovery somehow? Or, is it my own MLC?

I never thought H looked his age. He certainly didn't act it (LOL). We got along pretty well...even better now since he's in AA. I just posted back in June how good our relationship was at 1 year past d-day. And then BAM, it comes to a screeching halt in July. I'm now wondering what I want. What I need. Questioning the whole age difference again.

*H looks older to me now.

*H is starting to experience SF problems now and then. What if it becomes worse?

*I can see H tiring more easily than he did before, yet I'm still raring to go.

While my son got his glasses fixed last night, I sat and watched all of the good looking (younger) guys coming into the store or walking by. I was thinking of what it would be like to talk to them or even kiss them. I felt sick to my stomach. I couldn't imagine it. I love my H to death...can't imagine being with anybody else...yet I still question if I should be with someone my own age.

This inner turmoil I'm going through probably explains the recent panic/anxiety attacks I started having again. I need to go back to my IC.

Your H's comment about not having sex with you or you dating others makes (a little) more sense to me now. It sounds like it's all about MLC and the age difference thing.

I did not get M'd until I was 25 (1st M), so I was single and dating for a while. And while I had plenty of guys to date or had several boyfriends...it was not necessarily fulfilling. I'm trying to keep this in mind. It's not like I can leave H and immediately find a 'younger' single version of someone like him. It's almost like your H does not have a realistic view of what's out there. If he does find multiple women to have sex with, most likely they will not be the kind you'd take home to mother! Yuck! The grass isn't greener. He won't find a younger *you* out there.

Well, enough of this rambling. I hope I didn't upset you. Like I said, your post shook me up and I thought I would share my feelings.

Maybe you could suggest more IC for your H before he makes a decision. I plan on seeing my IC and trying to work through this.

Take care.

sss

Having had a doozy of an MLC, I feel qualified to respond. My W is 3 months older than me. When I had a MLC A, OW was 10 years younger.

If he is having an MLC, then your age is only the "peg to hold the hat." He is dissatisfied with his life, and has found something convenient to blame his dissatisfaction on (your age).

A MLC is basically a man whining about the different roads not taken. Had he married a younger woman, he would be whining about how he should have married someone more mature. It doesn't matter.

As far as him living his "dream life", he is trying to find those external things which will fill a void in his life. But, again, it isn't about what "stuff" he has--it is about what is missing inside of him.

You say that the closer he get to his dreams the less happy he seems. Why? Physical possessions only go so far. As he gets the things that he thought would make him happy, he is beginning to realize that they won't.

He has spent his life acquiring "things" (e.g., a wife, a house, a car, a job, a child) while avoiding emotional and spiritual growth. He has to start reading, thinking, contemplating--i.e., he has to develop a philosophical approach to life rather than a simple grab for material possessions.

Watch "Groundhog's Day" with Bill Murray. Think of Murray as a guy going through an MLC, and you can see pretty much what it is like at the start, the middle, and the end of a MLC.

<small>[ August 06, 2004, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Jimmy Mac ]</small>

sss - thanks for the reply - especially from the other perspective. One thing is, our society generally recognizes and accepts the older man, younger woman situation. And obviously, men leave women their own age for younger or other women all the time due to a midlife crisis or other excuse. So for my H, my being older in his mind seems to justify his need to find another partner even more. But even if I was 35, he could still be tired of me after 13.5 years of marriage and not like the idea of never being with another woman again.

But my C seems to have zoned in on the mid-life crisis and my H is using my age as an excuse to want out. So there are 3 issues here - my age,
our age difference, and the fact of wanting to move on to a new relationship - the grass is greener syndrome. And actually, I think the first two factors are just excuses to justify the latter. Although, my H is very, very conscience of appearances, how he invisions himself compared to the rest of society. Good looking guy, successful, lots of money, 2 great kids, nice house, vacation home, boat, AND A BEAUTIFUL HOTTIE on his arm, not some great looking older woman who happens to be his wife of 13+ years. Do you know what I mean?

But facts are facts, and if he is obsessed with this image then he will never be happy with me, no matter how well suited we are. And even if I was the BEATIFUL HOTTIE, if we had been married for 13 years then he still could have a problem with the whole idea of never having sex with anyone else again in his life. This seems to echo the problem you are going through with your older husband, and certainly, his A is not helping you to overlook your other concerns.

I don't know much about your situation, are the kids yours? How many times is he unfaithful to you? Why the heck is he unfaithful to you if he is married to someone 18 years younger than he?
(this question of course ties into my trying to figure out my H's motivation - seems to be the opposite).

Anyway, this is so complex. I just about died of pain yesterday after I started to read about how to tell the kids you are separating and the effects of separation/divorce on kids, my kids are so loving and trusting and happy with mommy & daddy together. But you can't stay together for the kids, especially if one wants out. My counselor said to take care of myself first, and I have gotten some legal advice as well, which only complicates the situation with trying to work out some kind of trial separation with my H, hoping that he will come to his senses if I do a good plan B.

The thing is, I thought that with time, he would settle down and come to accept the age thing as no big deal, since everything else is working. His flare up with the exOW just reminded him of the fact that he feels that woman his own age is who he should really be with. H told me during the first A that her rationale for trying to take him away was based on my age. Not like she was stealing a man from a "normal" couple, my age was unnatural and our marriage was not "right". Of course, I am sure that my H was probably telling her that although he loves me, he can't picture himself living with a woman that much older than he his whole life.

Ohwell. I am torn between hoping he will get himself straightened out and we can keep our wonderful, happy life and family together, live like we have been living the past 5 years, and the 8 years before the A. And then hoping we can just go our separate ways and I can get on with my life and get the pain he causes out of it.

There are alot of couples with age differences that work things out and are very happy, I am certain that age difference itself is not a major factor if you are compatible and make each other happy in all other ways, which is the case with my H & I. But its his "image" combined with the "just one person for the rest of my life, and an old one at that!" My H told the C in so many words that he wants to find someone his own age to live out the rest of his life with, that this is his last chance to find someone his own age for a "normal" relationship with someone he has more in common with. But I can't think of one thing that he could have more in common with than me. Maybe he wants someone he can sit around and talk about growing up in the 70's, when I was already an adult. Do I want to sit around and discuss growing up in the 60's with someone?
My C also said that he has no doubt that my H will miss me, and doubts that he will be able to find another woman that will satisfy his EN like I do. But what is the price we pay, how far do we go for him to figure this out? And what about my own chances for finding another man who will take better care of me? Divorced mothers of two over 50 don't seem to do very well these days, no matter how exceptional they are. Yuck.

I am so torn and confused and worried about the pain that we all, me kids and him, are going to have to face with this possible breakup.

Any further ideas much appreciated.

Good luck sss.

JM- thanks for this. It gives me hope, but also makes me realize how much H has to change in terms of his outlook on life in order to feel satisfied. He may have to destroy his life and cause his loved one's much pain in order to figure it out, and he just doesn't see it.

Maybe I will rent Ground Hog Day this weekend.

Duplicate post

<small>[ August 06, 2004, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: Everhopeful ]</small>

Everhopeful,
You probably noticed one of the books I recommended on your thread yesterday was a MLC book. Actually, the Conways have 4 books on MLC:

Men in MLC
Women in MLC
Marriage in MLC
Your Husband's MLC, which I liked the best, have yet to read M in MLC.

Their advice is much like MB, wait it out, similiar to Plan A/B, measured in years rather than months.

My H is only 6 months younger, but truthfully, I looked older at the start of his A 7 years ago than I do now. I dressed frumpy, didn't exercise, "mom" hair.

But even in the course of things, when I became a skinny hottie with long blonde hair <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , it wasn't about me. He appreciated the way I changed, but it was his body aging and prone to sports injury, and I think, some of that "last chance to" things you talk about.

He had to experience that life he thought he wanted to the point of my serving him the D papers....

Everhopeful -

Here's some info and more of my thoughts.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know much about your situation, are the kids yours? How many times is he unfaithful to you? Why the heck is he unfaithful to you if he is married to someone 18 years younger than he?
(this question of course ties into my trying to figure out my H's motivation - seems to be the opposite). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2nd M for both of us. H has four (adult) children from first M and I have two children (12 & 15) that live with us. H was unfaithful to me two times that I know of. Last OW was the same OW as he had in his 1st M. They reconnected after 10 years.

H's unfaithfulness and alcoholism are due to his childhood wounds--he has been hard at work addressing those wounds for the past 9 months. Long story...but it's tied to the fact that his mother abandoned him and he had no real relationship with her. He's growing, changing and breaking the cycle he was in. He's finally faced his demons. It's remarkable when you consider he started this at 60 years old. He could have just continued down the same path he was on.

Get this, the last OW was younger than me by 4 years!!

I think what JM wrote makes sense. Maybe I need to do some emotional and spiritual work too.

The subject of retirement might have also triggered my thoughts. H has been talking about retirement. He deserves to retire...he's worked very hard for the same company for 40 years. I would like to see him retire and enjoy it. Of course, he wants me to retire at the same time. He says he won't enjoy it unless I'm there with him. If I do retire at the same time, I'll be 49. I'm just now reaching the peak of my career, I'm not sure I'm ready for retirement. Plus, I have two kids that I'd like to get through college. We've hired a financial consultant to help us manage our $ to be able to retire in 6 years. I'm split down the middle. Sounds great on one hand, but I have a great deal I want to accomplish on the other. I guess it's some of that...*Last chance to do, try or accomplish that yet*.

Lor posted good information also. That this MLC, or whatever it is that your H is going through, really has nothing to do with you but everything to do with him.

Did the IC suggest any books for your H to read to better understand MLC?

I feel for you. It sounds like you guys have had a great M. This has to be very frustrating and so difficult to go through. You sound so strong. Maybe it will take D papers, like Lor said, to snap him out of it!

Stay strong. Make sure you take care of YOU and YOUR kids!!

Take care.

sss

<small>[ August 06, 2004, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: stillsosad ]</small>

sss - the thing about retirement is funny because my H says he wants to retire in 5 years ...and he is only 40! I have no plans or desire to retire and I am so much closer to it. I always thought this was a good thing cause we could retire together, but my H keeps talking about "seeing the world" without mentioning me coming along.
Again, he wants to show up in all those jet set locations as a batchelor or with his hot girlfriend/wife. The funny thing is, he had dozens of sexual experiences and girlfriends before he married me in his 20's. But I guess those didn't count because now he's got $ to live it up as he plays out his fantasy life and find that perfect woman his own age to live the rest of his life with. Just wish he would have waited a few more years until the kids were out of school to have the MLC. Not that it would be any less hard on them, but at least they would their happy childhood family memories intact.

I feel a good cry coming on.....
(thanks for the replies)

I have not posted here before although I have lurked for a year as I went through my ordeal. Your post caught my eye because like you, I am with a younger man. He is 42, no children and I am 54, 2 children (30 and 35). I have been told that no age difference is noticed physically by friends. Like you I look younger than I am. When meeting people, they are always surprised at my age. I am always approached by men when we are out so I know I am attractive to others but I am completely or almost always ignored by him while we are out. I always tell him what other men say and he just laughs it off. He has too much self confidence now believing that I won't leave because of my reaction when he wanted to go. I don't know if it is because I have always had low self-esteem or what, but it makes no difference what people say, I always feel insecure. The other person was a bit younger than he and completely opposite of me but a sporty, outdoorsy person like my partner. We both work at the same place and so does the other person. I have had to run into her and since she works in his area part of the day he has agreed to leave for lunch at that time. He doesn't understand why I still have a problem with her after a year has passed and tells me I have to get over it. I am just as angry at him but because I don't feel safe letting my rage out that I feel for him, I aim it all at her. In the past year I have bent over backwards to do things that my partner enjoys to show my commitment to our relationship and have completely stopped doing things I enjoy. He is treated like a king at home, waited on hand and foot and I have waited for a year to see some reciprocation and it does not seem to be coming. He is not the person he used to be at all. His answer is that I don't have to do everything I do (my insecurity showin up) but part of the initial problem was that we did not have things in common and I am trying too hard now to change things. This week we celebrated our 17th anniversary. I made the effort ahead of time to get him something he wanted and bought a very romantic card and I received nothing because when he remembered a couple of days before that our anniversary was coming up, I told him to forget a card because I was so hurt. I am someone who really likes cards and he knows this (he had given me a not-so-romantic card on Valentine's and said it was too soon for more) so I was hoping this would be the time. We have discussed this since then as I couldn't let it go because I had put so much emphasis on this being a time to finally show me that I was appreciated and now he says he isn't that type of person (with the excuse we have been together so long) and I asked if he wanted to see all the cards he had given me over the years. I told him that I was very disappointed that he was not putting any effort into meeting any of my needs. Then he said he must be in a mid-life crisis as he still does not feel the way he used to and is looking at younger women more and I guess feeling discontent. Is this another excuse for his immaturity of late? He has always been a very mature, responsible person since we'be been together since his early 20's. He has always helped with my children and helped financially as well without a problem. Although it is my biggest fear, I finally asked him to tell me if I am wasting my time trying to make this work. I fear that I am going to invest more time and the result will be that he will still leave and I will be that much older when he does. My friends tell me that I have completely spoiled him and he is acting totally selfish and to tell you the truth, I am getting resentful of the way I am being treated but do not know how to stop now as he seems to think things are going so much better than before. But that is because all of his needs are being met but none of mine are. I think because he decided to stay that that is all he needs to do. If I could just get to the point where I could start treating myself well, he would respect me more and as well I believe he would not take me for granted as much as he does -but whenever I try to do this I still go into panic mode and don't enjoy myself.What is wrong with me? I had been on meds and have now gone off them after suffering bad withdrawals and do not wish to go back there. Anyway, I was wondering if you feel more insecure because of the age difference and the differences that are going to show up even more in the next 20 years? I'm torn between wanting our relationship to work so much and being with someone who isn't willing to give as much as me for the last best years but the thought of losing him is too painful to comtemplate. Do I risk losing him by asserting myself now or is it too soon and the healing process is going to take longer? I just don't know what to do.

Hi again Everhopeful

It just does not sound like your H has a grasp on reality and how it is out there!

A co-worker of mine...divorced, no kids, 43 years old, attractive, makes decent money, (seems) normal, active in church, active in Big Brothers...can't find a woman! He seems like a nice guy. Only fault I could see is that he comes on a little strong when he first meets a woman he is interested in (he's asked for my advice on how to handle things before) because he's so eager to settle down again.

I'm sure it makes this even more frustrating for you, to see your H throw his wonderful M and family away for a big fat fantasy.

Some people have to learn the hard way I guess.

Take deep breaths. Calm down. Take a bath and listen to some music. I hope you are not crying any more.

Take care.

sss

Everhopeful,

Your post caught my eye and I wanted to respond to you. My husband is almost 11 years older than I am, but I've never really thought much about the age difference. When I chose him as my husband, I did not chose him because he was 11 years older, but because I loved being with him, I loved our conversations, the way we made love together and I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him. I don't think that anyone picks their life partner because of his/her age, dress size etc. He chose you as a wife because he loves you and he knows that you are a compatible life partner for him. I doubt that this has changed as your C noticed as well. Even if he left you for a younger woman, I highly doubt that he would be able to find someone who would even come close to the kind of woman/wife that you have been to him.

You seem very educated and I do not doubt for one minute that you are very attractive and a lot of fun to be around. Your husband is a very lucky man to have a wife like you, two beautiful children, a nice home and no financial worries. This is more than most people would dream of.

Destroying your beautiful family for someone that he 'hopes' he may meet someday would be a complete disaster for him and everthing that he has ever stood for. It will not only destroy his family, but the relationship that he has with other loved ones and it may even impact his career and future. It's a big gamble that he is trying to play because he will never know who he is going to meet out there... You write that he is a successful man. There are many young and beautiful women who pry on men just like that, but they only have their 'own' happiness in mind and it could eventually destroy your husband's happiness or 'future' happiness. It may work out, but he may not and it could end up a complete disaster from which he may never recover. This is a big risk to take.

I'm not very familiar with your situation, but is he still living at home? Is there someone else currently in his life?

I know that this is very painful for you right now and I can tell that this is hard on your self-esteem and you feel that you cannot compete, but let me assure you that if you are anything like what you come across in your posts, you are a terrific woman and you should hold your head up high.

K.

P.S. If you feel like crying, please do not hold back. Sometimes a good cry can be very liberating.

<small>[ August 06, 2004, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: Kati ]</small>

Yokohamarose - your situation sounds similiar to mine, although at least your H isn't threatening to leave - only that he is feeling restless, which has to add to your insecurity wondering what that means. I hope you are getting some individual counseling. To answer your question about the future....when H and I got together I was 40, and I honestly think I look better now than then. So this gives me confidence that even when he is 55 and I am 70, I will look darn good. I thought my H had come to grips with the age difference and we were over that hump. H had a year long A 5 years ago, and almost ran off the the OW then. Then we gradually worked on recovery and I thought all was well for the next 5 years, until he had another fling with her a month a ago. This is what triggered the desire to be single again.

As mentioned, the OW always fueled the fire regarding "what the heck are you doing with a 55 year old woman, when you could have a hot chick like me!" And I think their seeing each other again just opened up that whole issue - she is his "best friend" and I'm sure she wouldn't hesitate to prey on the age issue and sympathize with him about his desire to leave, even though she vows to stay with her own H. Since he stayed with me first time around, (rejecting her)I believe she would like nothing more than to see our marriage break up, and probably encouraged him to come to this decision to leave me, even though she herself is staying with her H.

The problem with my H, is mentally, he has already crossed the line. He sees himself as gone, just hasn't left yet. I really do think that the OW pumped him up to leave, whether or she was willing to join him or not. She is a very manipulative, vindictive person. As one of her ex girlfriends told me, she loves to be the center of attention, the center of her kingdom, and when my H didn't run off with her the first time, with the whole world knowing about it, I think she made up her mind to get revenge. When she got married 2 years ago, she bought a house 4 blocks from us, moving from another city. Scary stuff.

But, neither here nor there at this point. H is saying that he has made up his mind to leave, just not sure about the timing. I asked him the other day if he wasn't at all stressed about what he was about to do and he said, "I don't feel anything until I do it, and right now, its just talk". Not to say that this gave me any false hope, but I think he feels empowered by just saying that he plans to do this, feels like his freedom is an option if he goes.

Honestly, I feel like I am more together emotionally and more self confident than my good looking, successful,wealthy younger husband. Maybe I am kidding myself, but I'm not too worried about finding male companionship after he leaves. The idea of remarrying is the last thing on my mind right now - the first thing on my mind is making my kids feel safe and secure and making this whole trauma as easy on them as possible.

Again, I am torn by hoping he will change his mind and we will keep our happy family a whole one. And then I realize that if he stays, I could be doomed to the rest of my marriage wondering when he will again decide to leave.

Ultimately, he will have to make up his mind and face the consequences of his actions, no matter what happens with the OW. I have a feeling that she will always be there for him, in terms of someone that will encourage him to dwell on the
age difference as a negative in his lifestyle, and that he'll be happier without me and the kids limiting his lifestyle. And with all bets off in terms of our marriage, I have no way to stop him from talking to her, as he feels she is his only friend. Again, scary stuff.

OK - maybe it is the antidepressent meds I took today, but I feel much calmer and accepting of this situation tonite. I was a mess this morning, but then I started thinking like this - as much as I want him to change his mind and stay, I am afraid for the life I will live if he stays (without counseling). All of his issues will still be out there, unresolved, and I would be living in fear of him deciding to leave again.

15 years ago, we lived together for 6 months, with the understanding that we would go our separate ways when those 6 months were over. We loved each other, but it was understood that because of the age difference, we would never be a permanent couple. I told my H then, "I don't want to have to worry that you will wake up one morning, look at me, and decide I have one too many wrinkles" And the week before we were due to split up, I found out I was pregnant (our 14 year old.) Never could get pregnant with my EX, and knew I would keep the baby no matter what. 1 1/2 years later after lving apart and letting my H sow some more wild oats, H asked me to marry him. And 4 years later, seemed happy enough to say he wanted to try for another child, which resulted in our beautiful daughter now 10 years old.

So anyway, this age issue has always been out there, from day one. Seems now like he threw in the towel and never was 100 percent committed for the long haul. As he told me yesterday, he is pretty proud of himself for staying married 13.5 years.

He is away this weekend at our cabin with his happily married high school chums, a trip planned more than a year before. I guess I see this as good practice for me, operating with him not around. I know it is too soon for me to say that I have accepted his leaving, but maybe it is for the best, as I have always felt that his heart was never 100% in it, even though we had a great marriage in many, many ways.

H just called home - one of his buddies got on the line and told me how much he is looking forward to a "family retreat" with his wife, kids and our family next year. So H hasn't told his best friends that he plans to leave.

Whatever. I just feel like he is such a good actor and always has been. But that in his heart, he has always figured that he had the option of leaving if he ever got tired or disatisfied with the marriage. I shouldn't blame Ow for being the catalyst, cause if it wasn't her, it probably would have been someone else. I don't feel defeated, just trying to accept what seems like the truth at this point.

There is a popular song out now - the lyrics go something to the effect -

If I gave it all up for one thing - wouldn't that be something?

I guess I know, I don't really want to know, but I guess I know - I just hate the way it sounds.

I think this is our song these days. Thanks for everyone's support today - I can't tell you how much it helps. No doubt I will be posting more over the weekend.

Hi Everhopeful -

Just wanted to check in on your. I'm glad you were feeling better and stronger last night.

So your H is proud of himself for staying M'd for 13.5 years, huh? That does seem to say that he wasn't 100% committed and would work it for as long as it suited him until he was off again. It's too bad you have to hear such hurtful things.

You seem like such a loving, caring, confident, good person. Don't let him drag you down.

Stay strong.

sss