Sorry to threadjack, but Pep, I just read your signature line - too funny!

Now for specifics.

I didn't read anything in your update from your H that surprised me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by faithinme:
<strong>Then WH says "I know that the divorce is what I want."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Baloney. He may THINK he knows what he wants, but he's full of poop. He hasn't a CLUE of where he's going.

We've heard it all before, and I'm surprised that the counselor accepted this as rational thought. Is this counselor experienced with alien abductees? Maybe not.

Anyway, the ball's in your court. Recover Plan A or go straight to Plan B - if you can get him out of the house, which may not be a easy task.

Multiple affairs are counterindicators for recovery. If this tips the scale for you, get a lawyer and bleed him dry. And don't let him take the children ANYPLACE away from you.

WAT

The FOG your husband is demonstrating is not surprising at all.

Talking about wanting a plasma TV & other things ... implying he's possibly staying with you, and then the very next day telling the MC he definitely wants a divorce. Ughhhh ... unfortuntely this is typical WS behavior.

It's clear he has very real doubts regarding the longivity of his relationship with OW, and I think you sense the same, FiM.

Can I ask what marriage recovery counseling you two did for his other two affairs? I know you said he was never emotionally involved with the 2 OW, but this weakness of his is showing a definite pattern.

Hope you're doing okay.

Jo

I want to know how the birthday party went!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Happy birthday, by the way.

I also have to ask what type of recovery work went into surviving the first two affairs? I ask, because if you look at my sig line, my H was a repeat offender but I would not put him the category of "serial" cheater. Not sure your husband belongs there, either.

In any case, if his decision to cheat the first two times was never really addressed, it doesn't surprise me that a third OW came along. He just happened to like this one.

I think you've made everything very clear with your stellar Plan A and your abruptly introduced modified Plan B. I hope he'll respect your request to leave after the Disney trip. Get your ducks lined up. I know I didn't have to say that, cuz I expect you have half of them lined up already!

Take good care, now.

~ Snow

I think when you take a firm stand like you did it sends him a clear messege. He said he wanted a divorce so Plan B. You tell him if you want to try and work on this marriage OK-Plan A. He needs to go NC with OW, and I think being firm is what he needs. He won't like you taking control of the situation. YOU ARE DOING GREAT! Sometimes it takes the OK then move out and don't come back approach-I was there too. Go have a good vacation. Give him something to think about. MUCH LOVE-Jersey Girl

YOU are doing everything right.

What a crazy 24 hours! I'm trying to figure out exactly where I am right now, but I'm pretty sure I'll figure it out soon.

Resilient and Snowbelle - We never fully dealt with the previous A's in MC. We pretty much got to the point that I could live with the A and get over it and then stopped. The first one was before we were married and we actually never had counseling. Being where I am now, I can see that the way we dealt with the second one set us up for some very unhealthy behaviors. Since we never got to the guts of what was behind the A's or fully explored either of our feelings or responses, he was constantly trying to make up for things or feeling guilty and I let him try to make it up. What began as a way to deal with the situation turned into a bad way of relating in times of stress.

I don't see him as a serial offender...funny since it has happened repeatedly. The last time was eight years ago and he was 22. No excuse, but I really had not seen this coming from him again. I have wondered throughout this process if we would even be here had we not stopped MC at the soonest possible moment before.

Anyway - after posting yesterday I came home from work and started getting ready to go out. WH was pretty insistent that he wanted to go and still wanted to go to dinner beforehand. I said sure, we have some things to finalize anyway. So, we went to dinner and while we are eating he looks at me and says, "I made a mistake in MC today." We had not been talking about the relationship or really anything. Just looking at the boats on the water while I answered questions with the shortest possible answers while not looking at him. (I was still pretty pissed).
"You made a mistake?" I asked.

"I think I misunderstood the question that the MC was asking. I wasn't saying I definatly want a divorce. I meant I am still just seeing what happens."

"So, when the MC asks Do you definately want a divorce and you say Yes I definately want a divorce, that ACTUALLY means I'm seeing what happens?"

"You know what? I wasn't really paying attention. You had me upset when we were talking about the girls moving with me and my mind was still there I think. I really do want to see if there is anything for me to hold on to in this marriage still. Can we take it week by week? Let's set up milestones and see where we go."

At this point I was probably looking at him like he had two heads. DORK!!! He pushes me to where he wants me and then asks me to step back. I told him that I honestly just don't know that I want him anymore. So, he asks me to do the same as him and see what happens. He wants to just be together as a family and spend some time just the two of us. He still wanted me to know that right now he hasn't changed his mind about a divorce and unless something does change that will happen. But he also wanted to say that he made a mistake saying he "definately" wants a divorce.

I told him I'm going to have to think about things because I had actually felt relieved to just had made a decision and have a true direction now. And do you know what his response was..... "What if that's the wrong direction? Let's see." AAACCKKK!!!

After dinner we went dancing and had a great time with a group of our friends. He spent most of the time talking with them and I spent most of my night dancing. I had a great time.

So, right now I have to decide if I am going to go back to PLAN A or go on to have him move out next week. I'm leaning towards PLAN A.

DAMN! That makes me feel weak. Yesterday I was truly done. I don't say things like that lightly and was ready to follow through completely. Today, I'm thinking about how I can monopolize on his showing his hand. I'm wondering if yesterday may actually end up helping in the master plan. I haven't felt this unsure since the first day I came to this site and told OW family. How do I want to lay those dominoes now?

I recommend you stay in Plan A and avoid those knee jerk reactions that took place at the counselor's office.

When he says that he wants this thing or that thing, think, "Alien talking here. Don't bank on anything he says."

AND - ask the counselor privately why he/she took what he said about wanting a divorce on face value? A savy counselor would know that he's fog bound.

But, he knows dern well what he said and he's backtracking. Be ready for more of this as he settles into fence sitting mode.

WAT

Rocky ride called the roller coaster. It dips each time the WS attempts to show control. Sad eyes, loose lips, failing memory, etc..... Yea even a few apologies and open ended promises.

You are much stronger than you realize. Keep on your plan. You didn't give him a definite and he still gave foggy answers.

Think of it this way.... if he were a car salesman, would you buy a car from him? If he were a buyer, would you sell to him if he wasn't paying cash?

L.

faith - Of course your WH has no idea that he wants to stay married to you. He is in the throes of addiction. And your reaction is perfectly normal too.

Back to Plan A. I don't think your WH is a serial cheater, but may have borderline personality disorder.

But anyway, you really need to continue your stellar Plan A. Can you find something in him to admire?

Believer - There is a lot to admire in him. I just have to constantly remind myself of those things right now. Right now, I admire his ability to be confused by small, preplanned actions on my part <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Really though, I do recognize my reactions yesterday as being knee-jerk. I failed to put up my fog radar and nearly backed myself into a corner. I AM going back to PLAN A and I am going to be more vigilant in keeping myself in check. And I am going to find a way to use this situation to my advantage. Not exactly sure how yet, but I will.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
<strong>I don't think your WH is a serial cheater, but may have borderline personality disorder.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">believer, where are you getting this?

I think he just has some maturing to do. He's only 30 - a baby! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WAT

WAT - You are probably right. I keep forgetting that he is young and a male. Faith - listen to WAT, he is an expert.

Now back to my thoughts.........Oh yeah, since admiration is usually a big EN for men, start admiring him. You can be sure that OW is.

Also a little SF might go a long way. But be sure to get him tested, and use protection.

Trust me.... SF would be nice but he is totally resistant. I'll keep trying though...you can be sure of that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Oh, shouldn't be too hard. Just stay in Plan A and admire him.

faithinme,
Way to go! If you've had just a few times of confusion in the past few days....give yourself a whole lot of credit...Confusion can easily come when dealing with WSs who want the focus and heat taken off them...You're doing great!

Just wanted to share a thought..
My WS and I divorced. Didn't know about MB then, and he kept on lying. Anyhow, my xWS was 47 and had an affair with a 22 year old. She got pregnant. People who know her said they think she did it deliberately to keep WS. xWS has children from his first marriage..D,16 and S,20. OC born two years ago...has Down Syndrome..I had been open to reconciliation, and had met the OC, and was willing to help raise him. xWS talked a good line, but didn't change anything at all (not a surprise!)

Anyhow, when you talked about your 2 daughters going to live with WS and OW, I chuckled. One Friday night while sitting home alone, as usual...I got thinking about xWS at "home" with all his kids...the 16 yr old..20 yr old..2 yr old..and 22 yr. old...All of a sudden my aloneness didn't feel so bad! At least I wasn't "babysitting"!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I know the age difference between your WS and OW isn't near as great. But you and I both know that having children can shake up one's world!

You hang in there sweetie! Regardless of what happens, you can rest assured that you will have done everything you possibly could have. Keep up the great work!

<small>[ August 14, 2004, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: heartfailure ]</small>

Just got home from a fun afternoon with the family. It was bumpy at first because WS went and got a cell phone. Sprint PCS, which OW has, so now they can talk PCS to PCS as often as they like. He tried the line, I'm going to get a cell phone so I can keep in contact with you better. He still thinks I have an IDIOT sign on my forehead apparently. So, he was under the impression that while I have asked that he not contact her (or her, him) at our home, it's okay that she call him on a cell phone here. We had to have that discussion. I asked that she not call the cell phone since he is with us most of the time. He had told me that he wouldn't give her the number anyway to begin with. Supposedly, she had offered to not call him from the start since she didn't want to interrupt any time with us (gag!). Funny how within hours of his getting it, we are already getting calls from her. But, "She must have a really good reason for it" says he. GAG again.

After that, we went for a drive to a park about 40 minutes away and played with the kids and went for a walk. It was very enjoyable for everyone - he even smiled a few times <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> On the way home though he got really quiet and upset and I'm pretty sure he had some tears in his eyes. Now, he's outside upset because he just misses her so much.... I know because I had asked if he needed anything (meaning a drink or something) and he snapped back "Do you really want me to tell you what's bothering me because I doubt you want to hear the words!!" OKAY.....

I wonder if he even realizes that he's so upset because he had a nice day with his family and it doesn't fit into his fantasy that a viable and happy life can only be made with her.

The kids and I are going to get down on the floor, play a card game and let him pout outside. When he's ready to finsih off the day in an enjoyable fashion I guess he can join us.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Hi FiM,

No matter how well versed you can become in Plan A, we all have our moments of hurt/anger. And constantly harboring those emotions all the time is nearly impossible. It can cause a near zero love bank balance for the BS and that's "one" of the reasons Harley designed PLAN B. Not saying I think you're there yet, but keep monitoring your love bank balance for your H.

Regarding the "serial cheater" subject. My ex-H was a serial cheater. First time he cheated it was because his mom, who he was extremely close to, passed away. While separated he cheated on the OW with another OW. Next time was because I wasn't there for him 24/7, I have a demanding job. And it goes on and on .... I didn't find MB until this last time and by then it was too late for us.

BTW .. all of my H's affairs were years apart from one another (5+ years).

I would say that your H does have a problem with remaining faithful to you. I know that is very hard to hear, I hated it when my friends and family said it to me. Made me want to defend him. I mean how in the hell would they know how sweet he can be, how remorseful he was at the time of D-days. Afterall, he was just weak and I needed to be there for him more. There were reasons he had those affairs, he certainly wasn't a "SERIAL CHEATER". Btw, my H also traveled excessively for his work. We changed that and he eventually cheated yet again.

I'm not a shrink or anything, And I don't mean to hurt or offend you in anyway. You know your H and the dynamics in you marriage better than anyone here. These are just my opinions based on what I've read of your sitch thus far.

I would think since you've found MB now, that if/when recovery takes place from this 3rd affair, that you and your H should agree that there is a problem with fidelity in your marriage. And like any addiction, he will always have a propensity to be weak and could cheat again. I would then think you two would come up with a long term on-going plan for the rest of your lives in this marriage to manage his weaknesses, whatever that may entail. Perhaps MC for the rest of your lives.

Just my very humble opinion.

Love,
Jo

p.s. If it turns out you don't like your MC, I can recommend someone in GH.

<small>[ August 14, 2004, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong> If this doesn't work out for you and you get divorced and I'm still single, will you marry me?

(Actually, I'm taken. I just wrote this for effect.) </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey! If WAT's still taken when you get a D, please put me on your short list!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<sigh> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ... well, I guess I'm still taken too, sure enough, you are a wonder girl.

Now that I've read through the entire thread (in one sitting), I'm still very impressed by you.

This is very hard business. You are showing us some genius, and I, for one, find it inspiring. It makes me re-think my situation - and go in a different direction.

Thanks!


-AD

<small>[ August 14, 2004, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: AD. ]</small>

I'm new here and just read this thread. My husban has been deployed since Jan. of this year and just came back home for his 2 week R&R, when he told me about his A. He is back there now and he has told me she is not there any longer, she was hurt and sent back to the states. He said there will be no contact, etc - I am not sure if I believe him or not. Ugh.

I really admire how you are handling this and hope for the best for your marriage recovery.