Well. As you said. He is home. Yay!

Now, your real clear path and determination will totally be the key to all strategy, as you know.

Hopefully, your H will get the picture thru the fog and choose his family over a fling.

Fingers crossed!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by faithinme:
<strong>In fact, he tells me OW is exactly the same. It's one of the reasons they're so compatible. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When did he say this? Just this weekend after he got home? Or a while back?

If it was recent, he's not serious about anything.

Just a hunch.

WAT

I've been reading this thread for awhile now and this is my first time posting to it.

Faith, your plan a was amazing. I was so impressed with your strength that came through in your posts.

I'm concered though.

Please don't flame.

I'm just wondering what kind of consequence your H suffered by going to SAT.

He went and you decided that if he did, then that would mean plan B. (of course his handling of it caused plan b to falter).

But he went there and he came back and he's in the house- exactly as he wrote in the note that he left next to the plan b letter.

So, my feeling is, he's prabably thinking he got away with it. No consequences for his behaviour.

My guess is that he will not go NC and will object when you ask him to write a NC letter.

Maybe I'm the only one, but I think maybe you should have kept with plan b, even though he came back to town

Being cronically late is a reason for compatablility? What? I've always thought that people who were cronically late had a great need to be noticed and in control. Foggy fog fog fog.
"Honey, I just hate to be on time." "Sweetie so do I." "Yes neither of us give a rat's behind who we've inconvenienced. Isn't that cute!" "Yes pumpkin." People like that get on my last nerve.

It does sound FIM that he's playing straddle the fence. I was so convinced that once he was there and the thoughts of you no longer in his life would profoundly wake him up. Sigh...

So what is the deal? Is there NC? Is there going to be a letter written? Is the month thing still in the plan? (which is foolishness) Sounds as if the fog is as thick as ever.

What a stroking his ego is taking. Sigh... Doesn't sound as if he were convinced that you would Plan B him and the next effort to Plan B will be extremely difficult. He still won't believe it.

I know it's fog talking but the disrespect he freely dishes out to you makes me sick-even though he's doing the same thing to her, she didn't give birth to his 3 children. He turned his phone off! He didn't want to be bothered with your anger about the later flight! I'm sorry FIM but there's not going to be any NC just HC-hidden contact.

FIM please don't try to justify his actions regarding missing flights. I'm sorry but we all do what is important for us to do. I am so profoundly disappointed. You're a wonderful person, wife, and mother and he can't see it....

<small>[ September 07, 2004, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: jph ]</small>

Okay. Back now.

WAT - That comment was made on the first day he came home from deployment....August 8th.

To everyone else who sees the fence sitting, I absolutely agree that's what he's doing. Are there consequences to going to SA? Not nearly what they should be. Nope. He's had to agree to NC and to writing the letter. This afternoon though he tried to say, "I never agreed to the letter, I just said I'd think about it."

Well, I brought up the conversation in which he specifically said, "Wow. I guess I just agreed to it. Hmmm. Did you realize that?" This was one of those make-faithinme-feel-good-about-our-chances-even-though-I'm-gone conversations. Nevertheless, he now remembers that comment and I'm holding him to it. He said, "I just don't know if it's a good idea." I replied, "I don't know if it's a good idea that you stay here until you figure it out."

We're writing the letter together this evening.

He is giving me access to his email and phone. Although I'm a pretty smart girl and know he can delete those pretty easily. I'm expecting that he is going to break NC. I'm going to wait to find it though....which I will if it's happening. He's too smug too hide it very good.

So, there isn't nearly the repercussions for going as I'd like, but in all honesty, I didn't lay them out enough. He's agreed not to contact her or accept contact from her. I had accepted a weak version of full NC as well as the working on it for about a month crap before fully thinking about it and realizing how counter-productive it really is. If I had it to do over I wouldn't have rolled over so easy on it and accepted things like this. However, I saw it as a way for him to say "I'm doing everything you asked and it's still not good enough." if I added more to it at this time. Maybe that's just being weak. That does run through my mind. However, giving him the out along with a way to be self-righteous about it at the same time seemed to me to be even worse.

To be honest, I feel like I backed myself into a corner where there is really no good way out. I felt PLAN B was needed with the departure to SA. Then, after thinking about it I felt like it probably was really too soon after he was gone so long. Back and forth, back and forth. I think I bobbled it even if only by second guessing myself for so long . Now, I need to recover.

Given the opportunity, right now, he would still get the divorce. He'd be unsure that was right but that's what he would do. The only chance, I FEEL, right now is to try to regain the progress we had made before he left and move on from there.

When I talked with him this morning, he still thinks he should know whether or not he should leave within three or four weeks. WHATEVER. But working on that angle from home is going to be a lot easier than working on in any other way.

Dang!! Another meeting. Be back again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Faith - that is good news. I still maintain that most WS's refuse to write the letter in the first place. For some reason it is a stumbling block.

Maybe others will join in with their experiences, but I think that he is showing good will if he writes the letter.

Keep on keeping on, you are doing a great job. My money is on you and your husband getting back together.

It's a good thing he's agreed to a NO CONTACT letter.

When it's sent, please make sure you are "hands on" in on that. We don't want it sent to a wrong addressee or anything such thing now, do we FiM. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

So, do you have a new plan layed out? Do you know what you're going to do when/if there is resumed contact? What are the consequences?

Can't do anything well without a plan.

Lv,
Jo

<small>[ September 07, 2004, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Alright...I'm going to have a record for posts today if I'm not careful!

So, THE PLAN right now is:

1 Write NC letter tonight - Again, I do this anticipating there will be contact at some point. He says he understands the importance of it and that the only thing that will help it get easier is time. I say he's saying what he thinks I will think sounds good. This will need to play itself out.

2 Set ground rules for NC to be sure we BOTH understand - Make sure we both understand that if there IS contact, he needs to stay somewhere else until he can commit to it. No contact means letters, email, phone, cell phone, smoke signals, ANYTHING. Mental telepathy is okay <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

3 Back to PLAN A for me - We've talked about the need for both of us to give everything to each other right now. He brought up the fact that he was thinking he should try harder to do little kind things because it makes him feel closer to me. It was a nice something-she-wants-to-hear statement but he's right and I hope he does it and it backfires on him and ends up truer than he expects. In the meantime, PLAN A brought us farther than he expected in a short amount of time, so I'm going to try it as long as I can.

4 MB Counseling I am trying to set up an appointment as I write. I've emailed the Harley's and am hoping for a session this week.

5 - Marriage Encounter - I've also set us up for a Marriage Encounter weekend Sept. 17-19. It's a three day marriage retreat. I've heard wonderful comments from others who've attended so cross your fingers!

I do realize that he is sitting on that fence and not being respectful or honest with me on many things.

Earlier, I wasn't trying to explain away his missing the flights. I simply wasn't surprised. He should have made them. Absolutely. I just didn't expect that he would anyway. And not answering the phone is one thing I WILL bring up should he come out of this fog. That was absolutley unacceptable behaviour. I didn't expect that much would be acceptable during and right after this trip though.

I'm not okaying it. I just didn't see the point in not looking at the situation and assessing it according to the behaviour I have come to expect of him in the last few months. I knew what was coming even if he didn't.

He's not so unpredictable right now. This is TOTALLY unlike the man I love and the man I married and the man I want to be married to.

But this person I'm dealing with has my man somewhere in there and I am going to do what I can to get him back out. I won't be willing to do that forever though. When I actually looked at a calendar and realized that he came home Aug. 8th and left here August 30th....29 days, I couldn't believe it. It seems as if I've been living this with him FOREVER. But it was 29 days. Patience is a virtue I am learning but not one I have mastered.

I wonder if I had expected too much too fast. Maybe not. But it seems to me, now, that after a year long separation and a 5 months A while he was away, 29 days may not have been adequate.


Meeting!!!!!! This work thing is seriously getting in the way of my time here on MB:)

faith -

He did come back, so I wouldn't worry too much about when or how he did it.

Remember OW is going to LB him big time about the NC letter. By the way it should say that he loves his wife, and is going to stay with his family, and work on the marriage. He does not want any contact from her for any reason.

I think I would mail a copy to her parents too. Maybe others will chime in on that.

Then do your stuff, girl. And be sure to make provisions for some nights out, just the two of you.

Don't forget to send it so that it requires her signature. That way you will know she got it!

Hi Faith --

I'm glad he's home so that you can get to work. You've been great. Don't be surprised if at some point you find out the OW has already been told she may be receiving a letter and to not take it to heart.

He will continue to test and push your boundaries. But you know that already. You seem well-prepared emotionally. I'm glad to see you're calling the Harley's. We counseled w/Steve, and while I'm a little aggravated at my H's inconsistent follow-up, it was helpful to us.

You go, girl!
shellybird

faith - I think you have him nailed.

He may just be going thru the motions of a NC letter to appease and delay you.

Maybe not. And maybe I can beat that whippersnapper on Jeopardy.

Repeating myself here> When you detect he's broken no contact, Plan B and alert OW's CO. Perhaps keep exposure to the CO in mind as you "help" him write the NC letter. You might just have to send a copy to the CO to support your claim of adultery on her part.

WAT

Faith you are doing just fine, again, all this in less than a month. At least he is there and you can extend your plan A in case you need to go into plan B. He needs to remember home, it is different because he was away for whole year and then had an affair.

One day at a time. I love the idea of the MB weekend. I love the MC.

She may show up in your town. If she can swing it she is going to come look for him, so eyes open.

Hugs to you, you are doing fine, he's in there, you just have to pull him back out. Mine was the same, and when I look at him now, I can't believe we went thru that. No one would guess-we look like the perfect couple to be envied. Sooo...you never know what is going on with that woman/man in front of you in the grocery line.

Infidelity strikes so many families. It will be Ok-I really think so. Hugs-Jersey Girl

Faith,

I like the Plan that you layed out in your previous email, however I would still include exposing the A to OW's CO. I do not believe that it will negatively affect your husband or his clearance. The reason I say that is because they no longer serve in the same unit. He may be reprimanded, at worst get an article 15 (which I doubt though), but I don't think that anything is really going to happen to him. Now, she is still on active duty and it may have an impact on her. She's probably not going to get fired out of the Army, but I'm very sure that her CO is going to have "the talk" with her. When my husband was deployed, one of the guys in his unit had an affair with a woman in the same unit and he was reprimanded and sent home. But he did not loose his job or clearance. I think by exposing the A to the CO, it will put further pressure on OW.

Affairs during deployments are quite common, especially in stressful situations like in a war zone etc. Your husband is good-looking, intelligent and charming and he was probably flattered by the attention that he got from the young girl. Life during a deployment is basically "on hold". It cannot be compared to everyday life back home in the U.S., therefore your husband is probably going to realize sooner or later that his fantasy with the OW was indeed a fantasy that will not play out in "real life". If he was SO sure about this thing with OW, then his bags would be packed and he would already be over there, with no look back at his family etc. He wouldn't have to "think"; he would know where is place is.

Deployments are also very stressful and the soldier returning always needs a period of "decompression" time upon his/her return back home. Your husband is still trying to fit in to this life back home right now. Of course his waffling over OW is not helping him return back to normal any sooner, but in time he will feel better and he will know where he belongs - with you and his three children.

Good luck and stay strong!

Kati

FIM,
You haven't addressed the question on how the job interview went for him? Does he have to wait to find out if he has this job or does he already know the outcome of the interview?

Is he going to be pursuing other opportunities for employment closer to where you live. I believe you've said his skills are very specialized and there aren't very many available jobs like the one he interviewed for last week. If he were to get that job would he have to be relocated to that SAT or are there other locations he could get?

Radio Shack sells some inexpensive voice-activated recorders... Some MBers in the past have taped a recorder to the underside of the car seat .... Just in case you were wondering about that ...

Pep

Good Afternoon! You know, I can't tell you what I would give right now for a nice, normal day. I am so tired of all of this crap and not knowing what is coming each hour.

But....that's not the case so we're all just gonna have to make the best of what we have. When life throws you lemons, make a BIG 'OL GLASS OF ABSOLUT LEMONADE and keep on going. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Trix - The job interview went fine. He has the job if he wants it and is just waiting for funding to come through. He doesn't have to work in SA, they have offices in Arizona, Louisianna and one in Houston. He's also looking at other jobs in the D.C. area and into selling his story. He's met with two publishers and has a few more appointments with others hoping for a book deal. We'll see what comes through.

Pep - I love the idea of the recorder!! I'll be looking into that.

So, he's back and things aren't too bad. There have been a few testy moments and last night we ended up not doing the NC letter or budget we were supposed to work on since family stuff went WAY later than expected and I didn't even get the kids fed until almost 8. After cleaning up, I took a shower and went to bed.

Dork comes to bed a little later though and initiates SF. This time it took two days as opposed to three weeks so that's something. And he initiated this time so that's even more. He swears he wasn't with OW while gone.....whatever. Being as neither of us can prove anything on that one, there are some serious precautions being taken though. Still, it's an improvement.

I'm pretty sure he's had contact with her already although I can't prove that either. As I said before, that will just have to play itself out until I have some proof. He seems to be a little smarter this time since his phone and email are clean of any evidence of contact. Maybe there isn't any contact. Doubt that though.

This morning I took the kids to school and left him a little card on the sink in the bathroom. It was a simple one that just said something like My heart is yours.....always and forever.

I added, "All you have to do is accept it." Then I wrote out "Ten things I love about you today"

They were:
your creativity in solving our problems,
the way you looked each time you first held our children in your arms,
your brains,
the way you touch your mom when you haven't seen her in a long time,
the way you excel at almost everything you try, the way I feel when you run your hand over my hair,
your dreams,
your diplomacy,
the fact that even though you figured I dated football players with big stereos, you still asked me out and fell in love with me.

I guess there's one I'm forgetting.

Anyway, I'm going to leave a little card for him each day with 10 different things I love about him today. I figure he needs some reminding about why I want him in my life. It will help to bring up some of those memories too. One of these days, I'll have the kids each write one too just to keep it interesting.

After I dropped off the kids, I went to pick him and the baby up for an surprise breakfast. He says, "I got the card. Thanks." That's it. I just smiled and said, "Your welcome."

We went to breakfast and started trying to make plans for the next six months, financially. Since he's not working right now we need to figure some things out FAST. I would prefer he not go back as a civilian to Cuba and that he not take the SA job. So, I had a few short term (6 - 8 month) plans for us. Of course, they all assume we stay together. He asks, "What if we don't work things out?" I said, "Well, I can't plan for both right now. We're working on things so I'm going with the assumption we'll get through this since we are both smart and dedicated people. We need a direction and a plan right now and since you aren't sure of which way to go, I'm willing to find that path for both of us. So, which one do you like best?"

We talked about the pros and cons of each and brainstormed a few others. He was actually talking about the future in terms of staying together. Then, on the way home, he got all sullen and moody. He said I was pushing too much. So, I said "Why don't you come up with alternate plans and present those to me?" Well, as it turns out, he doesn't want to be the only one to come up with those plans because it's harder to make things work out if we don't stay together. There are more problems and less money that way.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Well, gosh honey, I guess you're right. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Didn't say that.

Just looked at him. Head tilt. "I know." Back to driving.

It's been a while since I got a head tilt in <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I'm gonna let him chew on that one for a while. It's when he catches himself actually planning for a future that he gets into a mood. That darn reality keeps rearing its ugly head, I guess. I'm thinking tomorrows card will have a few "good family provider" reasons to love him.

Tonight we'll be going over the budget and planning things again. I'm just going to let him take the lead and see what happens.

I also got a new litte "outfit" I'll need to try out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Since he's being kissy and affectionate, I'd better take advantage and fill that EN.

Between that, a killer dinner and a nice clean house, I'll be ahead by the end of the night.

FIM -

I read somewhere that having a clean, well-run home is almost as important as SF to many men. That surprised me.

But you've got it all covered. I used to tell my WH (when in Plan A) that we would have had it made, and then listed things we could have done. Just kind of dreaming of the future together outloud.

I am very optomistic that he will stick around, even if he is still in contact with OW. He got into this whole thing because he was away from home. I think being home will pull him back.

So hang in their girl, and show him your stuff.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

Okay. I just need to get that out since he just left to get the kids from school and will be back in a minute.

He got on his laptop and so I asked, nicely, if he would allow me to see his email accounts. He kind of smiled and said okay. So, I see the inbox on one and he goes to log on to the other one. I ask if I can see the deleted items on the first one.

Freak out.

But he does it and shows me the second account inbox. I ask to see the deleted items on that one too.

Freak out.

I also asked to see the sent items on both.

can we all say in unison.....

FREAK OUT

But he did show me all and there was nothing in any of them.

Which says either he's getting smarter about what he does or he is really not contacting her.

Either way, he damn well better get over his gentle sensibilities being offended when I ask to see stuff.

Dork.

I do think I'm going to give him a little room though for a short amount of time.

Not because of the freak out, but because there was nothing there. I really was dreading him opening the deleted or sent items because I knew I'd be sending him out the door if they were there. With his reaction, I truly expected it.

Sweetie -

I would give him some space, and Plan A like crazy. Don't send him out the door. The Harleys recommend a couple of months of Plan A. Now is your chance to shine.

Let OW LB him. Let her freak and demand, and be insecure.