I do know this is natural and something I just need to deal with.

WAT - Thank you for always being able to put things in perspective!

There are a lot of great reasons to fight for this man and this marriage and this family.

I know it or I wouldn't bring myself back around.

It helps to write out the feelings I'm having and actually see them and read them back to myself a little later.

And the encouragement and support here is what has gotten me through many days.

So thank you to all you MB'ers who support and care for each other <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

((((((((((((MB))))))))))))))

FIM, I have said before and I'll say it again that a properly held-together plan A in the face of the Fog of Death is a heroes gig. In my time here your efforts have been inspirational to me when I was down, and felt I couldn't go on.

Your man will awaken one day and realise that in the dictionary next to the word " Guts" is a picture of you, and then his 'intestinal fortitude' comment will become a corpse in his mouth.

You are not alone in your struggle to save your kids and your WH from the effects of the A, although it seems like that, I KNOW. God is with you as he HATES divorce and affairs and LOVES brave and noble parenthood and spousehood.

You continue to inspire me FIM, and may others on here. I will pray for your success.

All blessings and strength.

Yep, he is doing VERY little to deposit into your Lovebank and your bank is leaking loveunits by the hour. You look for the slightest hope to fill your lovebank again...keep it up as long as you can, BUT, there is a limit to Plan A, no one can give unconditionally in the face of an A forever.

How much strength and energy will you need left to recover this M? Only you know. When you are down to that point, then it is time to move to Plan B, when you still have love units left. I've read of many MBers who make the mistake of giving in Plan A until they are all drained out, then give up...no Plan B, they don't have the heart for it anymore. Honor yourself and your M by moving to Plan B while you still have love units left.

Yes, Plan A appears to be turning WH around, but it may not be fast enough for YOU to recover your love.

Plan A is for the WS to see a new BS and fall back in love.

Plan B is for the BS to preserve the love they have left and to help the A end faster by injecting some reality into it...

You are in intuitive person and have great instincts about when it will be time to move to Plan B, many do. SH will be a good guide for that...

I believe you should give 100+% now. I believe if you give it your all and he fails to respond you can keep your head high when your kids look for answers. You can point them to Dad.

Anyway...I don't really think this is going to fail. I believe that he is going thru withdrawl and this is going to take a little bit. I really think he is right on schedule. I have faith too! Hugs and happy weekend. Hope he starts looking for a job close to home. It is an excuse to go back to SA. It is a no no to go there. Even if you have to live with less.

Happy Friday <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well, we counseled with SH today. I have to say, I have heard what a difference even one session can make, but I didn't expect it to have such an impact on WH.

Most of the session was spent with WH and SH. I talked with SH for a short amount of the time and then we both talked with him for another short amount.

After we were done, WH came to ask me how I felt about it and I told him I thought it was positive and there were a lot of things to think about. He kept pushing for really detailed answers, which I though was weird.

Anyway, as it turns out, WH said he feels more positive about our chances than he ever has. He said that SH said quite a few things that really made him stop and think. The biggest one, according to WH, was when Steve told him to stop waiting for the moment. I looked at WH and said, "Huh?"

WH said that since he first came home in July for a visit he has been waiting for some big, divine revelation that he belongs here with me and his family. He's been looking for that "Ta-da!" moment. It has been worrying him that it has never come. He said that SH said it won't, so stop looking for it.

WH said that just being told that it isn't going to happen and is unrealistic lifted so many of his concerns for a true marital recovery. I never would have thought to address that.

So, he told me that he is seriously considering NOT going down next week to get the final court date for a D. He said that it may not work out in the end, but right now he sees more hope than ever before and is starting to see that maybe things could be different than they ever have before.

That's a HUGE step in the right direction.

He also told me again that he is really having a hard time imagining himself happy without me in his life. Like he said before, he feels he could be happy with OW but doesn't know if it would be enough without me there somewhere.

We are going to set up another appointment with SH and see where things go right now. SH says that he will keep up with the NC. We'll see.

I did ask SH about the NC and what I should do should I find out there is contact. I told him I am highly suspect that there will be soon.

He said to just lay low for right now. WH is listening to him and since we are in counseling, SH has the opportunity to lay the groundwork for going farther than WH sees himself going now. I'm going to hope that he keeps up with NC, but follow SH advice and play it cool if there is contact.

We are going out tonight. WH asked if we could do something together after we finished talking to SH. Not sure what we'll be doing, but I'm actually looking forward to spending time with him right now.

Steve Harley is damn good.

He has had years upon years experience in counseling married couples that have experienced adultery. That experience told him that your H was looking for some magical epiphany moment. Very cool.

I'm looking forward to your H having that "WTF!" moment one day down the road when he reflects about what a bonehead he was for ever even considering child/OW when he has YOU!

Love,
Jo

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I've been here reading every day but for some reason just haven't sat down to post. I can tell you, the wisdom and caring of the people here is just inspiring. There is never a day that I don't get some insight or knowledge from reading here.

I guess a reason I haven't updated is that I just don't know what is going on.....still. Earlier in this process there was always something changing. Right now though, I just don't know what's happening. There are definately some positive steps happening though.

1. WH is still here! I can't tell you how big this one is for me. When he came home in Aug., his plan was to leave on Sept. 15th.

He didn't.

Today is the day he can go down to get a final court date for the divorce (at least he believes he can since he isn't aware I have contested it yet. SH suggested not mentioning that fact yet). He has decided to not do that yet though and continue to work on things here.

2. OW isn't happy about his still being here. Anytime I know the little bimbo child is unhappy, I see it as a positive.

3. WH is enthusiastic about counseling with SH We have another session tomorrow. YEAH!

4. Each day here makes it harder for him to leave WH is still telling me he is in love with her. When he is upset, he wants to go to her for comfort, not to me. He still isn't sure he is willing to "do whatever it takes for as long as it takes". He still is not in love with me. BUT each day he is more comfortable with me. Each day he sees more possibility in our marriage. Each day it is harder to imagine a life without me and leaving his children. The longer he's here, the more hope there is.

He's telling me there is still no contact and that he is looking into jobs in places other than SA. He hasn't cut that off as a choice because he thinks he still may go if things don't work out well here, but he is seriously looking elsewhere too. When we talk about the future now, the conversation doesn't immediately go to what will happen when we divorce.

Of course, everythings isn't peachy all of the time. I'm having a hard time with still not having ANY idea what the next month, or week, or day will hold. He COULD up and decide to go any time. I hate not having a commitment. She is still standing there as his back up. BUT I do realize that he is here, not there.

And possession is 9/10th of the law, as they say.

That would be why we're in this position to begin with!!!!

The longer we are together the more some of the things he has to say hurt now too. Yesterday, he told me that for him, there is no right answer. That no matter what happens, a piece of him is going to die. OUCH! It makes me feel like I'm the wrong answer, either way. But, I have to remind myself he is still not thinking straight. It's hard to do that though!

So, for now I am living each day by concentrating on what I CAN do, not what I can't in mending our relationship.

I can't make this go any faster, but I can make the journey as enjoyable as possible. I try to be sure and laugh together, play together and be homey together as much as possible.

I can't make him not love her and love me instead. I can live as the best me though and hope he wants to hop back on the ride. I'm taking piano lessons again. I'm making sure that I'm engaging with my kids and with him and with my friends in ways that make me HAPPY. I'm cooking meals like I used to and sitting down to help the kids with homework like I used to. I'm taking us all out for walks in the park, like we used to. The energy and simply the ability to do more than just survive each day has come back.

I can't fix this. But I can learn what I can do give it the best possible chance and put my faith in myself, my husband, my marriage and God.

So where's my 5 bucks? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong> So where's my 5 bucks? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just tell me where 'ta send it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

On the positive side of our lives, WH spent the day out looking at campers to purchase.

Now, we can so TOTALLY not afford this as he is not working, doesn't have a job lined up unless he moves to SAT with OW, and I am out looking for a full time job to help support us and having to leave a part time job at my children's school which I love.

BUT, he wants to buy one for us to go on family vacations. He went on and on about how great this would be for us and how much fun we'd have. About five minutes into it, his UNDORKING WARNING LIGHT must have gone off because he felt the need to throw in the comment that if we do still get a divorce, he can always drive it to SAT.

uh-huh. I chose to not respond to that with anything but a "hmmmm".

So, I am going to have to talk him out of this so we can pay our bills next month, but the fact that he spent all day on something for OUR future was uplifting.

I even chose to not mention that the dishes and laundry weren't done like he promised to do last night if I left it to watch a movie with the family. I MUST be making progress here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

OHHHHH....and before I left the house to come into work for a meeting this evening.....which I have put off getting ready for to browse around MB.....he came into the bathroom, put his arms around me and said, "Thank you for not giving up."

WHAT???????????????? Where did you put my husband?

He said, "Thank you. Especially if we stay together, thank you for not giving up on us or on me. If we don't, thank you for being civil."

I told him "Your welcome, honey." Gave him a big 'ol wet kiss and then said, "I wouldn't count on the second one if I were you though." as I pinched his hiney.

We were joking around about that, but JEEZ, can we HAVE a talk about us without divorce being brought up?

At this point, I think it's more of a knee jerk reaction with him or he's trying to keep that in his head while it's quickly filling with thoughts of staying home. The idea of divorce is slowly drowning in the quicksand of his mind, but he keeps trying to pull it back up. JUST DIE!!!

Oh, well. That's a minor inconvience in the otherwise slowly progressing dramatic comedy of our lives. I'm taking those moments with a grain of salt and relishing the victories that he doesn't even seem to realize are slowing going to salvage this relationship.

Man, I love that guy.

I was wondering, how easy / difficult is it for your H to say...

"I was wrong. I made a mistake."

.... does he have a history of being able to admit his mistakes?

Pep

Faithinme -

I am giving your husband extra credit since he was gone from you for so long. I really believe that he will do what he needs to do.

So relax, and if he decides to leave, send him off with a great big goodbye. But I don't think he is going anywhere.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> I was wondering, how easy / difficult is it for your H to say...

"I was wrong. I made a mistake."

.... does he have a history of being able to admit his mistakes?

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He has usually been able to admit his mistakes. In fact, one of our R problems stems from the fact that historically, I have not been able to admit my own mistakes. Rather than have to do that, I would allow an argument or situation to drag on and on until he would be the one to initiate a resolution. Pride, pride and more dumb pride.

Wh on the other hand generally just says, you know, I made a mistake and I'm sorry. He is pretty good about making up for it and talking about it too.

I don't think he'll view this A as a mistake any time soon, but I do believe that he will eventually be able to and admit to it as such.


Overall, I am really very, very hopeful at this point. I know things could turn, but I am cautiously optimistic. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Believer, I think you're right. If he does leave, I will be pretty shocked.

Faith,

Your situation does sound really hopeful if you ask me. I think that your husband is just saying those things to get your blood boiling a bit and also to keep some sort of control. He probably is starting to feel a bit foolish regarding the entire A and is probably not going to apologize for a while. But he may in the end. I really do not think that he is going anywhere anytime soon.

Are you plans to stay in WA? If not, you may wish to check out the DC/MD/VA area. Tons of jobs for people like your husband. If he has a security clearance (preferably top-secret) and a minimum of a B.A., he'd be set. However, cost of living is pretty outrageous here, but I assume that the Pacific Northwest is probably not very far behind.

Take care!

Kati

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Kati:
<strong> Are you plans to stay in WA? If not, you may wish to check out the DC/MD/VA area. Tons of jobs for people like your husband. If he has a security clearance (preferably top-secret) and a minimum of a B.A., he'd be set. However, cost of living is pretty outrageous here, but I assume that the Pacific Northwest is probably not very far behind. Take care!Kati </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's amazing how the cost of living has skyrocketed here in the NW! Right now, we just aren't sure what will happen if he does end the A. He has looked at quite a few jobs in the MD/DC/VA area, but most of them would require quite a bit of time away and are WAY more risky than either of us want. There was another company based out of SAT that called to offer him a position. They were specifically offering for their SAT office, but when he asked about other locations, the guy said they have offices around the country as well as some out of country. There is apparently a position in England that has some good possibilities too. I just don't know right now.

We had counseling again today with SH. Most of the time was spent with SH and WH talking, which is fine with me because Steve seems to be the only one that gets through that thick skull of WH's. I am really glad we chose to take the counseling route. It's expensive and right now with him not working it's a bit difficult, but I would recommend it to anyone! Whatever it takes to be able to continue with it, I will do.

Well, we're off to dinner with some friends for a birthday celebration. I hope we have some time after we get the kids to bed to just sit and watch a movie. I wanted to see about an impromtu date tonight, but had forgot about the birthday party. I'll have to arrange something soon though. We are definately not getting that 15 hours of couple time right now!

<small>[ September 22, 2004, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: faithinme ]</small>

Right on schedule! Hope OW doesn't come stalk him like they sometimes do...you know crying...soulmates...LBBBBBs This is about the stage they try to do that, so don't be surprised. Mine (HXOW) showed up when it became clear he wasn't going to her. She LBed-he hates her now.

Don't worry, the ball is in your court. He's figuring it out now. Baby it's you! The other stuff was just an escape, life just isn't fun and games.

WOW! It has been a while since I posted on this thread...I had to search down to page 7!

I don't really know what I want to write. Things are just so...stagnant...I guess that's the best word right now.

WH keeps going back and forth and it is pretty damn irritating for this Irish leo. Not really in my personality to sit by while he decides what he wants. BUT.... I am doing it. Well, I can't say I am just sitting around. Plan A is certainly not for the weak-hearted, weak-willed or those who can just sit back. It takes work and a commitment to stay here in Plan A. I find myself having to recommit over and over. Many days I have to do it every hour.

Yikes.....will be back after meeting!

That's for sure (plan Aing)

One thing it teaches you is a whole lot of things about yourself! (the strength, passion, ability to focus given a less than ideal situation)

Has your H read SAA?

Well, you are still counceling with SH, you are fortunate for that. Does he give you both homework to do?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Trix:
<strong> Has your H read SAA?

Well, you are still counceling with SH, you are fortunate for that. Does he give you both homework to do? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My H is reading SAA, however, [sarcasm beginning]it simply doesn't apply to HIS relationship. It's not an addiction, it's true love. There's no fantasy about his relationship, it's as true as they come. Some of it might apply, but not all of it. [sarcasm ends]

Actually, it does sink in for a little while, then he starts fighting the reasoning, then it comes back. Back and forth, back and forth. I am glad that he's reading it and that he is showing that willingness to consider possibilities outside of his initial belief that he can only be happy if he's divorced from me.

Counseling with SH has been an absolute Godsend. WH actually listens to him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> We had counseling today as a matter of fact and although it didn't seem to have the immediate impact that the previous ones have on my H, I know that the reasoning and little seeds of knowledged planted by SH do get through.

Today was a turning point for me too. I have been so close to being finished with this process so many times lately. But Steve put it to me in a way I just haven't thought of before.

My husbands best chance for happiness is with me.

I believe that. But to hear it from someone else and to hear it in that way, was something I needed.

I love my husband. I can't say I am ecstatically IN love with him right now, but I do know that I love him. How can I walk away when there is truly still hope and love there? If I love him, how can I not do everything I can to help him access his best chance for happiness? Being the mother of his children, his partner for the last eleven years, his biggest supporter and knowing that the man that I AM ecstatically in love with is somewhere in him, how can I not see it through to the end?

I have to. I want to.

I may not always feel like I want to, but we can't always go only on what we feel.

I'm asking him to look beyond his feelings. I want and need him to look beyond HIS feeling for OW, his feeling that things will never be good again and his feeling that things can't change for the better forever. I am asking that he look beyond those feelings to the possibilities and to make that leap of faith with hope that we can have a better marriage than ever before.

I need to look beyond my feelings of anger and despair. I have to look over the mountain of lies and deceit. Not to forget that they are there, but to see beyond them to a better place. If I give in to my own sadness and give up, I am doing nothing better than he is.

So, I'm going to keep that in mind when I want to tell him to just go. I don't want that, not really. I'm the one who has to see over that mountain for both of us right now. If I lose sight of the goal, we may both live without having the one who holds our greatest chance for true happiness.

WH was going to go down to the courthouse today to see about getting a date for a divorce. He looks at it as no big deal because he can always go down and change it or even withdraw it. It's a huge deal to me though. ANY step towards divorce is.

So I told him that I will fight any attempt he makes to get a divorce. He said, "You can't. You promised not too. Just a few days ago, you were the one who was saying you just wanted to get it over with."

I told him I was wrong. That since I love him and don't want to see him unhappy, I would do nothing to help the process. In our state, you have to attend a parenting class to get the divorce. I won't go. I will contest it so he can't get one for at least a year.

I didn't put it that way, but I was very firm that I would do nothing to facilitate one happening.

That felt good. With the insights I had today and my belief that we will make it through and have a GREAT marriage, the day has been easier to get through. I am looking forward to going home and seeing what tonight will bring.

Now, he may be surly. I'll smile. He may be irritating, I'll deal with it.

Because damn it...this Irish leo is out to win this game <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />