Don't know if any of you remember my story but I asked my fiance to move out in May and called off our wedding which was supposed to be July 3rd. I had serious trust issues with him and we were fighting almost non stop.

When he left we agreed to leave the door open, and for both of us to work on our own individual probems. And we both agreed to study the MB principles and try to find a way to incorporate them into our very troubled relationship.

Well Friday night he was supposed to arrive at about 5:30 and we were to spend the weekend on our island property. He never showed up until 10:30 and had been drinking. I blew and he left.
Saturday morning I went to the island and found out from a woman I know over there that he had had another woman with him for the weekend at OUR place in June. I confronted him and he said that he found comfort in her when I first kicked him out but that it ended after two months. WTF!!!!

So all this summer I have been doing nothing but learning good relationship skills, the art of forgiving and forgetting and on and on and on, while he has been lying, and wining & dining another woman!!!!

Well it got pretty ugly over at the island to say the least. I pulled all the bedding out of our trailer and ran over it several times with my truck, then I threw all his stuff out of the trailer and smashed it with a shovel. Then I took everything that belonged to me and my DD back over here to the mainland. (he was gone during this entire upper body work out)

Then I left a no contact letter.It stated I would appreciate no

contact from him for any reason whatsoever...that I plan on getting on

with my life, and that any communcation between us would be through my sister.


So far he called and left 4 messages and a letter...so, so far no contact has not been honored.

This morning I came up with the following, in my journal, I will not let him know this is what he needs to do, atleast not at this time.

This is what I will expect before I will even consider dating him again,
three months of PROVEN sincerety, honesty, respect for me & DD shown by honoring his promises (every last one of them). And three
solid months of every word matched by solid actions.

These are my boundaries and I will not even consider a friendship unless they are met.

I know that he will take a fall without me being there to pick him up, and I know that he will become even more desparate when I won't talk to him. I could be wrong, but I am prepared to move on with my life now with out him.


What do you think? Am I insane to even leave this three month window open? I realise it will be hard fo him to do what I am expecting, without being able to talk to or see me. But I believe if he is serious, he will manage a way. Especially the promises he made to my daughter regarding a new puppy, a fort he was to build her on the island, a kayak for us and several things we needed to do to one of the rentals. He had also promised my daughter to take her fishing and spend some time on the island with her.

I also told him when he started asking me what will we do with the property because he doesn't want to keep paying while my name is still on the title, to protect his interest - blah blah blah, I told him that I will not sell, I will not buy and I will sign nothing! We were not married so there is not a damn thing he can do about it now. It was my money that was used for the down payment, and this is waterfront property so there is alot of money involved... TOO BAD!

Oh and I just went to amazon and order Dobsons "Love Must Be Tough". I think that I have failed miserably in the boundary/respect department in a lot of areas in my life, my relationship with him is a big one though.

Also I notice my daughter starting to become mouthy and disrectiful to me. I am hoping to change this pattern before she becomes a teenager. Hopefully the book will help.

Hi Weaver,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What do you think? Am I insane to even leave this three month window open? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you've done an excellent job of setting appropriate boundaries for yourself and your DD... and I say, Good for you!

I probably wouldn't have given him the 3 month window after finding out that he was with someone else, but that's just me... As long as you are comfortable with giving him 3 months to "shape up, or ship out", then 3 months is ample time for him to "prove" himself to you and your DD.

Semper Fi,
RIF90

{{{{{GREAT BIG FAT HUG}}}}}

Great letter, great boundaries.

Do I think you are insane, only you know how much your heart can take. If you have the patience to work through this with this man, then give him your list.

Dr. Phil says a great prediction for the future is constant and continually behavior of the past.

I think you did great.

Thank God he wasn't there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You little fireball!!!

Thanks guys!

I would never even have known what a healthy relationship is supposed to look like, if I hadn't found this sight.

And all the support and sharing here gives me strength to hold myself accountable for my life, and relationships.

Thank you again,

weaver. You have got to be kidding me, girl. You are not even married yet and you are dealing with infidelity. He had an affair with you while he was he was married. My gosh, you are way too valuable to settle for this.

He is not marriage material. He has failed the dating test. This is not Afghanistan where the women are not free to choose their mates. You are a FREE woman who has the freedom to choose an appopriate match. He is not marriage material. Please use your freedom wisely!

Your D's well being depends on you making good choices, weaver.

I'm going to skip right over the part where you trucked back and forth over his stuff... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I think your boundries are perfect.

I think setting a firm time limit and laying out your boundries in such a clear and concise manner is a very good move.

He doesn't have to guess. He knows exactly what he has to do.

You are showing great stregnth and wisdom.

dewt

I know Melody, it's just that I am still having trouble admitting that I made a horibly mistake and that it was really just a sham.

Everytime I say no more, never again than my resolve fails. Just like qutting smoking, if I say well maybe I'll have a cig in a few days if I still want one, then I can do without.

I need to see what he finally does when he doesn't have me to talk to anymore. I need to see if he takes a fall and changes to become who I thought he was when I fell in love with him.

When I was 13 I became a heavy drug user, at 15 my parents put me in a foster home. I was the most selfish, self centered, spoiled girl you can imagine. I bottomed out after a year, I missed my parents so much and all that they had tried to do for me came crashing down on me. At 16 I moved back in with my parents, finished high school, made new friends and went to college. Thank god for that because I ended up having to take care of my dad and all that, but I changed and I have to see if he can, I guess.

Melody I know in my brain that you are probably right, you have seen this many times before, I am sure.


Weaver

Yeah Dewt I guess I still got some of that fiestiness left in me after all. Three months of being totally nice came to a head I guess.
And I certainly wasn't going to launder it, and I just didn't want it in there, and then I got mad at it. I would have destroyed a lot more of his things but everything else has like gas tanks and stuff attached, didn't want to attract that kind of attention!

I'm not happy about it...well yes I am I can not tell a lie.

weaver, please know that I can relate completely to you and what I see here is not a person who is laying down healthy boundaries but a person who is FUTILEY applying parameters to a completely unhealthy situation in the hopes of changing someone. You should not even be here to LAY DOWN boundaries, because you should have been LONG GONE.

Setting "boundaries" with an inappropriate match will not make it appropriate. If you have to do this before you are even married, what will you be doing when you ARE married, weaver? WEAVER.

I see in you something that I had to deal with when I was younger, and that is not having a good sense of what is or isn't appropriate.

Surely you don't believe you can change him?

<small>[ August 08, 2004, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Have ta disagree, Melody... (Ya, everyone knows I hate to argue... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Given a chance and a reason, people can change themselves. Sometimes it's not the easiest journey either. Sometimes ya gotta hit absolute bottom before the process can even start to occur. And even then sometimes it's a slow, uphill climb.

And some people are simply worth the effort.

I don't know all the intimate details of your relationship with your fiance, weaver, but I'm guessing you feel this man is worth giving another chance to. If that's the way you feel, then I say 'go for it'.

And again I applaud the way you handled it in terms of giving him a clear description of what you need from him. And then, afterwards, be patient in your decision making. Be sure the behavioural changes stick and that you won't get caught in a nasty cycle.

dewt

If you are not married .... some things that apply to marriage do not apply to dating, even serious dating.

That difference is ~vows~.

If you take marriage vows you are obligated to work out serious problems and to stay during the really really hard times. Vows count. Vows matter.

Dating is more like interviewing someone to see if that person is the right one for the "job" of being married to you.

Are you dating the right one?

here is how you can tell....

If you change this from ~man~ to dog ... it's a lot easier.

If you would like to have a poodle in your life, don't get attached to a doberman.

If you don't think you can live with a german shepard but would rather live with a terrier.... then pick out a terrier.

Your boyfriend does not have to be a bad guy for you to end this and move on ... he simply needs to be the "wrong guy" for you.

If he doesn't fit the bill of being the man you need while dating ...

....he's not going to fit the bill when married to you.

If he's not the one by now.... he's not going to be the one with more time. This dating buisness is like shopping. This man wears an "AS IS" tag.... take him like this, or move on to shop somewhere else.

He has shown you who he is. It is unreasonable for you to expect or hope he will change.

Is this man, as he stands today, the one you want in your life?

Yes ? .... then do not ask him to change.
No? .... Then move forward with the serenity that you have made a choice that is correct for you.

Pep

Thank you for your honest opinions, I value them.

When I read what Melody and Pepperband have to say it is almost like 20 years ago when my sisters and I would listen to mom and "the aunts" give advice. They were some tough broads, very eccentric in their ways, and a little wild and wacky.

I'll get there. Not feeling that bad anymore as I was this morning/yesterday. I'm not really looking for a husband, per se. Just an honest caring relationship and no, that is not what it has been. I am financially self sufficient and happy to be a single mom. We have a good life. I fell in love with the wrong guy. Just trying to find my way, now. But no, I have no interest in him the way he is now. And I can't live for ever in the dream of what I think it could be like with him,because it just isn't real. And I am finally starting to see that.

Melody, - when you say that I should have been gone a long time ago, do you mean from this forum, that I don't belong. Do you mean that in a good way - in that I should be out living the single life? Or in that I don't belong HERE!
Because that would hurt my feelings, as I like it here, for whatever reasons, it helps me.

Weaver, I very much believe that you belong here! I am sorry I gave you that impression. I think you should have been long gone from HIM. [not from this forum!] You deserve SO MUCH better. I think you are just a wonderful, intelligent, bright, articulate person who deserves the very best. And I don't say that lightly! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you Melody, that means more to me than I can say!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dewt:
<strong> Have ta disagree, Melody... (Ya, everyone knows I hate to argue... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Given a chance and a reason, people can change themselves. Sometimes it's not the easiest journey either. Sometimes ya gotta hit absolute bottom before the process can even start to occur. And even then sometimes it's a slow, uphill climb.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">dewt, I agree that people can change themselves, but she cannot change him. This is a pattern with him, this is how he is. So if she pursues this relationship with him, she will have to accept that this is HOW HE IS and that she can't change him. What he has done during dating, and during his last marriage, he will very likely repeat in his next marriage.

Secondly, I would retiterate what Pep said, and that is that dating is a "testing" period. It is a JOB INTERVIEW for marriage. When someone FAILS the job interview, you don't give them the job. And that is because if they can't cut it in the job interview, then they certainly cannot cut in the job. When one fails the interview, that is a sign to move onto the next candidate.

<small>[ August 08, 2004, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Well, he is honoring my NC request now. Haven't heard anything since Monday. This is a good thing, I know. Two or three weeks of no contact from him and I will be on easy street. I know the routine, lord know I've been through it before.

His daughter called and left a message imploring me to sign the island property over to her dad, because he has nothing. And he needs that to keep from falling into the abyss, of having nothing. Of his own choice of course. But she doesn't see it that way, and neither does he. After all he did try, and try, and try to make it work with me, but given the people that we are, we just can't make it work. It's not that he lied so many times, it's that we are just incompatable, and I should try and remember all that he has done that was good, and forget the bad and sign the damn property over to him. His daughters words, a true daddy's girl. How sad for her that she doesn't hear the truth from him, only the justifications of his actions... with me and with his two exwives.

I will not cave though, I will not contact him or take his calls...

What scares me the most is will I ever love again, like I did with him??? How many times can a heart break and still heal enough to love again. That worries me. I don't have it in me anymore to date. Something is broken I think, and I don't know if it will ever heal.

Oh well, I have my happy little girl, and she IS happy and she keeps me up and moving. This weekend we have some other kids coming over to stay with us. I might take them to the island and build a big fire, and roast marshmellows...

Like the Italians say, a home without children is like dinner without wine! (or maybe that is what the wino's say)

Weaver

His daughter called and left a message imploring me to sign the island property over to her dad, because he has nothing.

This is not an emotional dilemma. If property belongs to you, it does not belong to him. DONE!

He has what he has by his own efforts.

Weaver ..... love again? How about you heal your broken heart and find your emotional balance before you even "go there".

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

ditto Mel

But, I think you're nuts.

23 skidoo with this creep.

Didn't I say that some time ago? Can't remember.

Women marry men, expecting them to change. Men marry women, expecting them NOT to change.

You deserve better.

(Would've loved to see the truck action.)

WAT

Weaver, one thing to point out - if there are installment payments being made on the property, be sure that you are making the payments from now on - he could maliciously default on payments or taxes and cause you to lose what you put into the property.

Consider strongly buying out any of his interest in it and severing all legal ties to him, as this gives the jerk a reason to try to contact and emotionally manipulate you.