Anyone who has been reading my posts....

Called WH work cell phone this morning, to listen to his messages.

There was one from OW. "Just need to hear your voice, and know you're okay. I left you a message on our phone too. Love you."

I erased it. I was shaking soooo bad. Then when WH came in I asked him how he was doing.

He said he was just trying to get through this.

I asked him if OW had contacted him... he said no. Then he got upset with me because he said that I will never believe him.

He said OW won't contact him or chase him. She's not that way.

I told him I really wanted him to respect my point of view and that he could be truthful with me about anything, and I won't be mad at him.

I also asked him about the special adultery phones, and he said they were at his apartment.
He said he thought he would put them in a bag and put them in her office when she wasn't there.

He's really upset because I don't believe him. I said does he really think I would after everything that has gone on?

He said this whole thing is eating him up. And if I kept asking him to be truthful, then He was out of here!
Then he left to run.

Where do I go from here?

Also, I know I shouldn't have erased the message - he thinks that she is an honorable woman, and wouldn't chase him.

He doesn't know that I know his password. But he will see that she called him.

But I was so upset by the message..... K

<small>[ August 08, 2004, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: k72172 ]</small>

Okay, hon, get UNupset right now. You are want to win the war, not one battle. Sounds very promising to me.

Is there any way you can afford counseling with the Harleys? It is expensive, but they cut to the chase and can do in a couple of sessions what many counselors take months to do.

I think you have been doing well, and need to keep your cool. I know it is hard, but do it. Come here to vent if you feel LB's coming on.

Oh boy! K...I hear you loud and clear! My WH told me the exact same thing..."OW will never call me"..."Once I end it with OW, she will never chase me"..."OW said she would leave me alone"...DO NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING THE OW SAYS! They are liars! My WH OW has chased him since day one and is STILL chasing him...if my WH doesn't call her, she will no doubt call him...she says she LOVES HIM!!! GAG!!!

Eventually, your WH will get the phone call from her and once that happens it will be back to square one! Your WH has no right to say those things to you...He cannot be trusted...and he may very well be back in touch with her...I know mine was the whole time and he still is...

I am kicking him out today...I have had it...

OK...my WH jusst walked in here, read this post, read my reply to you and asked who I was replying to...He read your post...this is straight from the horses mouth...

"tell her that her H is still in the A...anytime a faithful spouse challenges WS and he gets upset, he is usually back into the A and is lying...or hiding something....dont let your WS abuse your trust in him..he is just using it to prolong the A...The OW will stop at nothing"

K--go with your GUT!!! anytime my GUT told me that my WH was seeing her or talking to her, I was always right! If the OW has called him and you have heard the message, she has probably called him before and he probably has heard it. If he is ambivalent about ANY reconcilition with you, then he is proabbly still seeing OW...

I am so sorry you are going thru this...I have been thru it ALL...Now my OW is pregnant!

Hi K,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He said this whole thing is eating him up. And if I kept asking him to be truthful, then He was out of here!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry, but this doesn't sound like a H that's trying to rebuild his M... I'm sorry to say, but it sure appears to me, at least, that he's still in contact with, and defending the OW....

As long as you are still willing to fight for your M, try to let your H know how his actions hurt you without accusing him. It's pretty obvious that he's still foggy, so any questions you ask him will be taken as an accusation...

Let him know that his actions hurt you, but try not to question him...

Hope this helps...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

K,
I think you need to back off of him. He is still on the fence and is just LOOKING for any excuse to bolt. It wasn't your accusation that sent him out the door, it was the justification he needed to bolt. The answer is to quit giving him ammunition.

The greatest opportunity you have to end this affair is to expose her at work and I don't understand why you won't do this. Expose her, K! Write a nice letter to HR and tell them about the affair and that the OW continues to pursue your H and is wrecking your family. And mail a COPY to the OW.

That will scare her, K, and that is what you need to do. The affair cannot survive long once it is exposed. I would also find out who her family is and send them a copy of the letter. Exposure just may end this thing but you must do it, K.

Hi K
I read the thread and I feel what you're saying...
I just told my H last week ..."I told you so" in advance.

I said he would be hearing form the OW in about 2 weeks to a month ... she'll want to know how he is doing with his marriage (what she'll really want to know is does she really still have a chance) ... maybe her H will do something to upset her (and she'll need those shoulders to cry on and will want to get the "attention the H hasn't given her and my H did) ... she'll go for the kill "I want to see if we have something" (b/c ego is ego and my H did put her above me and she knows that - just in the fact he talking to her instead of me. She told him to "stop being a P&ick and talk to me". *I guess she was trying to my "friend" too - NOT!)

I said this to him as "friend" and as woman. I know how we can be (women). I also told him that I wanted to know when it happens ... I will then e-mail her : Dear OW, I'm having this problem ... my H has been talking to OW .... her H doesn't know ..... She should back off ... Please help a sister out" B/C I already have made a decision not tell the her H. I hope that will get the message to her loud and clear and who knows maybe my "new friend" will get a clue ... that she's also M.

I agree you have your options to tell or not to tell. Timing is everything. But let your H know exactly what's on your mind and "trust" (will ya know) he'll support you, if he really is sticking to NC w/ OW.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by brown:
<strong>I also told him that I wanted to know when it happens ... I will then e-mail her : Dear OW, I'm having this problem ... my H has been talking to OW .... her H doesn't know ..... She should back off ... Please help a sister out" B/C I already have made a decision not tell the her H. I hope that will get the message to her loud and clear and who knows maybe my "new friend" will get a clue ... that she's also M.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Brown, I am sure the OW appreciates your support in helping her hide her secret and destroy her H by not telling him. Especially since it increases the chances that the affair will resume. There is nothing stopping her from contacting your H. And why shouldn't she? Since there are no consequences for her, there is no risk.

You just have to hope that your H is strong enough to resist. Are ya willing to bet the farm on that? That is about like sending an alcoholic into a bar and betting he can sit in front of a beer without taking a drink. It might work a few times, but it probably won't in a moment of weakness.

However, if her victim [her H] did know, the odds of her pursuing your H would be drastically reduced.

Just making a veiled threat towards her will not scare her. Hell, this is a woman who was bold enough to have an affair. If she even GETS IT at all, she can simply pre-empt you and tell her H that some jealous nut thinks she has the hots for her H and made a false accusation against her. So when you ever do tell him, he won't believe you because he has been warned you are a nut. This plan is just handing your best ammunition over to her.

To help them hide their secret from her H can only work against you, Brown. There is no advantage whatsoever, only disadvantages.

And that is only the pragmatic side, the other side is that this man NEEDS to know and it is an act of decency to warn him that his wife is destroying him behind his back. To not tell this man he is being victimized is nothing short of cruel.

Why are ya helping the bad guys, Brown?

Don't forget...
an A is an addiction.. even if your H wants to go cold turkey.. maybe OW can't or won't.
So treat her like you would treat a drug addict. Don't trust her. Don't expect her to be reasonable. In fact she wouldn't even care about any harm or guilt she's inflicting on your H just to get her "fix" of attention and confirmation.

<small>[ August 08, 2004, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: brownhair ]</small>

k
1st I would like to apologize for the "thread jack"

2nd Melody : Let's get this straight, I should tell the OW's H and she won't persue my H. .... I am maintaining my diginity. I'm not helping anyone keep any secrects ...
And how again will the "free' OW not persue my H?

You see I have to re-build trust that my H is in NC w/ the OW. (B/C if I don't we are screwed)

However, I also do not see the need to possibly shot cannon balls at a sinking ship. Why again should I tell the H of the OW about the "EA" again?

I am a sensible woman and I have morals (even if this OW and my H both lost sight of theirs). I found out w/ an e-mail (probably at the end of this "EA"). I was PO'd and hurt. The one of the 1st things I said to my H is, does her H know - 2nd I said, I won't tell him unless provoked. B/C in my heart and soul I couldn't did that to someone esle - probbaly b/c I basically a good person, faithful, forgiving, self respecting woman.

However, I never said I wouldn't tell the OW's H. I just choose not at this time. It really wouldn't make sense to me to do that. And I consider there are 6 children involved here also (4 of ours and 2 of theirs). I have also left this in God's hands for now. I do believe in my husband and our marriage ... I was just giving him a heads up.

Again my apologies

Oh and brownhair I agree w/ you .... the OW is like an addict (wasn't it said she was on crusie w/ her H for their 25th anniversary .... why call the OM??)

Brown, the way you help ensure that the affair does not resume is you tell her H so there is someone who KNOWS about the affair and can watch from that end.

Secondly, how do you expect the man to know what has happened in his life if you don't tell him? Who will tell him, Brown? And you most certainly are helping the OW keep her dirty little secret by helping her hide it. You are aiding and abetting her in destroying her H and her children. There is NOTHING "good" or "faithful" about helping evil thrive. There is nothing "good" or "faithful" about sitting idly by and not telling this man.

He is being destroyed behind his back and no one has the decency to warn him that he needs to protect himself from his wife. As a Christian, we have a responsibility to come down on the side of good and warn people when they are in trouble. This man is in trouble, brown. It doesn't make sense NOT TO TELL HIM. You have a moral imperative to tell this man.

<small>[ August 08, 2004, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I agree with MeloodyLane...
Her H needs to know! That poor guy has no clue that he is being betrayed. It's the right thing to do to tell him!!

Good luck!

I agree...her H needs to know...it is like YOU know about the A and you are hiding it from OW H...how would YOU feel if the OW's H knew and didnt' tell YOU? Tell the H...he has every right to know!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I also asked him about the special adultery phones, and he said they were at his apartment.
He said he thought he would put them in a bag and put them in her office when she wasn't there.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tell him to give them to YOU, you make sure she gets them. Period.

NC remember.

This will also empower you.

Hi everyone. First my apologies to K--this was your thread which is turning into a thread, almost demoralizing my W, brown. (Very intentional choice of word: deMORALize.) But, (sorry K), I feel the need to respond (and I'm sure brownie will later! ("Be afraid. Be *very* afraid! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )
And, just as a side note, my W is sitting right next to me while I respond to this post.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
[QB] Brown, the way you help ensure that the affair does not resume is you tell her H so there is someone who KNOWS about the affair and can watch from that end.
LI: Did she ask about helping ensure that I remain trustworthy?

Secondly, how do you expect the man to know what has happened in his life if you don't tell him?
LI: Even though there was betrayal--no denying that--there is a huge difference between an EA and PA. (Or is that just my fog talking again?) ML, you may have been in a similar position, but not the *same* position. You are assuming you know brownie, me and this OW like were chums. You are under the assumption that the OWH doesn't know. (IMHO, not only doesn't it matter, it really is none of both me and my W's business.)

Who will tell him, Brown? And you most certainly are helping the OW keep her dirty little secret by helping her hide it. You are aiding and abetting her in destroying her H and her children.
LI: Yeah, that's just dandy and fine. Let's throw more pain into the mix and tell the OC about what went on (like they don't have an intuition of their own that something is 'wrong' with mommy and daddy?) and cause even more problems *that is NOT necessary*. (Unless, of course, I f*** up again!)

There is NOTHING "good" or "faithful" about helping evil thrive. There is nothing "good" or "faithful" about sitting idly by and not telling this man.
LI: Evil. I'm being very defensive in this thread, but...I and OW did something wrong--we sinned. Am I evil? Wow, ML, I'd really hate to see what you would call a 'true' evil person.

He is being destroyed behind his back and no one has the decency to warn him that he needs to protect himself from his wife.
LI: Correction: please use the past tense. As well, you, nor I (nor Brownie) have no business in destroying any more than I already damaged. We--brown and myself--need to concentrate on 'fixing' us, not 'destroying' more. It's also none of our business if the OW & OWH decide to rebuild their own marriage. One thing I *have* learned on this site is to 100% concentrate on my own M. You're contradicting the fundamentals of rebuilding. (Gee, brown, let's rebuild our M...and (snicker snicker) we'll really f*** up "them" now. Oh, too late--she wouldn't have had an EA with me either if everything was just fine. If they want to work it out--not brown and my decision.)

As a Christian, we have a responsibility to come down on the side of good and warn people when they are in trouble. This man is in trouble, brown. It doesn't make sense NOT TO TELL HIM. You have a moral imperative to tell this man.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LI: How dare you say it is a moral imperative! Are you really "preaching" Christian values? You know, "Let those who have not sinned cast the first stone"? It's one thing to "preach"; it's completely different to lend your "advice."

I do apologize that this response is harsh; so was your response to brownie. (And yeah, so was my free will to have an EA with someone other than my W. But, you know? It's something that she and I are working on, dealiong with, learning together, and growing more together as each day goes by when she and I are communicating. To involve anything to do with the OW and her family--at this point--is simply wrong.

(OK--ready for all of the fog and "He's brainwashed his wife" comments. Standing tall for any more 2X4's coming my way.) Here goes....

"That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it."

Peace, love and harmony.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LI: Did she ask about helping ensure that I remain trustworthy?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, but she did state her concern that OW might contact you again. And since both yours and the OW trustworthiness is an issue, I responded.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LI: Even though there was betrayal--no denying that--there is a huge difference between an EA and PA. (Or is that just my fog talking again?) ML, you may have been in a similar position, but not the *same* position. You are assuming you know brownie, me and this OW like were chums. You are under the assumption that the OWH doesn't know. (IMHO, not only doesn't it matter, it really is none of both me and my W's business.)
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The differences between an EA and a PA are irrelevent to the point, though. The point remains the same, an affair is an affair, regardless of the physical aspect. And I don't need to know you, brownie or the OW to know that the OWH needs to be told the truth so I am not "assuming that I know you like chums." And yes, it really is your business and your W's if the OWH knows. It is the business of ANYONE who knows that this man's W has betrayed him.

Consider this, LI. Let's say that your neighbor's bookkeeper is embezzling money from him. Do you excuse yourself from warning him by saying it is "none of your business?" Do you rationalize that you "don't know him" in order to avoid doing the decent thing and warning him about this? See, it is all just rationalizations to avoid doing the right thing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Correction: please use the past tense. As well, you, nor I (nor Brownie) have no business in destroying any more than I already damaged. We--brown and myself--need to concentrate on 'fixing' us, not 'destroying' more. It's also none of our business if the OW & OWH decide to rebuild their own marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The past tense doesn't change anything. The man still needs to know. The truth does not "destroy," LI. The truth HEALS. Continued LIES do not heal, they destroy. Adultery destroys. And the OWH can't "rebuild" anything if he doesn't have all the facts about his life. LIES will heal nothing.

In all of your words, there is something very important missing, LI. And that is one single RATIONAL REASON to not tell OWH about this affair. You have not given one single legitimate reason. Do you not feel that you have a moral imperative to tell your victim what you have done to him? Do you really not, LI?

I can understand why you want to hide your secret from your victim, but it is ALWAYS in the best interest of the BS to know what is going on in his own life. It is the DECENT thing to do, LI.

To not do so is to put your own convenience above his best interests. I only mentioned the Christian aspect of this because your WIFE used this as an excuse to help hide the affair. It is my contention that there is nothing "Christian" about hiding evil.

And if you want to throw verses at me to try and shut me up, I will just leave you with one that should make you think when you are ready to get honest with yourself:

Ephesians 5:11-14 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14for it is light that makes everything visible.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by brown:
<strong>I am a sensible woman and I have morals (even if this OW and my H both lost sight of theirs). I found out w/ an e-mail (probably at the end of this "EA"). I was PO'd and hurt. The one of the 1st things I said to my H is, does her H know - 2nd I said, I won't tell him unless provoked. B/C in my heart and soul I couldn't did that to someone esle - probbaly b/c I basically a good person, faithful, forgiving, self respecting woman.

However, I never said I wouldn't tell the OW's H. I just choose not at this time. It really wouldn't make sense to me to do that. And I consider there are 6 children involved here also (4 of ours and 2 of theirs). I have also left this in God's hands for now. I do believe in my husband and our marriage ... I was just giving him a heads up.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A sensible woman with morals?

You are also very foolish.

K, I am so sorry about this "invasion" of your "thread". My intention was to give you another point of view. I really did not intent to hurt you or diminish your feelings. I only offered my "opinion". And I'm sorry that now I will address ML (please "forgive" me)


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong> Brown, the way you help ensure that the affair does not resume is you tell her H so there is someone who KNOWS about the affair and can watch from that end.

Brown: I honestly do not care about THAT SIDE. The OW or her H. I only care about *my* - myself - my family - my H - and my M.

Secondly, how do you expect the man to know what has happened in his life if you don't tell him?
Who will tell him, Brown?

Brown: I'm leaving that up to God and the OW. If he's in his M ... he probably knows "something ain't right". He is welcome to search her e-mails ... telephone logs ... follow her around .... or maybe just ask her out right. Maybe her "guilt" will make her tell him. Maybe she'll never tell. Maybe my H isn't the 1st. I don't know and I frankly do not care.

Will you next tell this A was somehow my fault? ..... Too late I already know what my responsiblity is in what happened (I have talked my H and I do understand and see my M for wht it was, what it is and hopefully what it will become) (MB fundamentals - depletion of LB's).

And you most certainly are helping the OW keep her dirty little secret by helping her hide it.

Brown: I repeat, I am not helping anyone "hide" anything. I do feel that "omission of the facts" is lying ... But if the OWH ever asks me, I'll be sure to tell him the truth.

You are aiding and abetting her in destroying her H .....

Brown: As I already said, there is no sense to me to shoot cannon balls at a sinking ship. What damage that was done, was there b/f my H and me (or else she wouldn't have "befriended" my H). (We didn't start the fire!!!) (Now am *I* supposed to put it out and ruin another family - Sorry - NOT WHAT I'M ABOUT!!!!)

There is NOTHING "good" or "faithful" about helping evil thrive. There is nothing "good" or "faithful" about sitting idly .....

Brown: This comment really struck a cord .... I am the OW or the BS????? I have been "Good" and Faithful" --- to myself, my children, my H and my M. And what is "good' and "faithful about possiblly destroying another family. Isn't like bombing an entire villiage b/c the enemy found a handgun?

As a Christian, we have a responsibility to come down on the side of good and warn people when they are in trouble.

Brown: I don't know what your "defintion" of being a "Christian" is ... But I was raised (and taught Sunday School and Bible School) based on "being *Christ*like. I believe in *Forgiveness*, *Compassion*, *Love*. (I have found that at this point of my M). I also believe in *Faith* and *Hope*. (I will continue to believe that about my M too - *WE* are here - Aren't we???). I also was taught "God helps those who help themselves", "Use wisdom", "Be still and know that *I* am God", "forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us" , and "the Lord is my shepherd ... I shalt not want".

And I know ADULTERY is right up there in the top 10 ... but "thoult shalt not kill" is there to .. I will not KILL another family.

You have a moral imperative to tell this man.
Brown: I have a higher "moral responsibilty" to my M - my children - my H - and myself.

Oh and "vengence is mine sayeth the Lord!!!!"

Sometimes you have to let go and let GOD .... maybe you should try it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Well Brown, I guess this comment just about says it all: "Maybe she'll never tell. Maybe my H isn't the 1st. I don't know and I frankly do not care.

And thats certainly your prerogative to not give a damn about OW and your H's victim. At least you are honest about it. Some people can sit right by and watch all sorts of destruction and never have a flutter of the heart as long as it happens to someone else. However, most people are not like that. Good luck to ya.