<small>[ September 30, 2004, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: ncwalker ]</small>

NC, I did my best trying to explain it all to RAP.

I can only say I'm sorry it's turning out like this.

Hugs to you NCW - you're a good guy.

Jenny

This makes me very sad. I'm so sorry nc...

nc, I am so sorry that you are in this position but I just want to tell you that even though it feels so hopeless, it is not. I know you are worn out and you have every right to be, but this is far from over. This will work out, nc.

ncwalker - thinking of you and RAP tonight.

GC

NCW,

Man, I'm sorry you're feeling so down right now...

Only you can decide when you've "had enough"... I've been where you are and it really hurts...

Just wanted to let you know that it CAN get better. Don't let the "feelings" overwhelm you... focus on the mission of rebuilding your M.

Semper Fi,
RIF90

NCW,

Wow, I am really sorry for what has happened. I take it from your post that you have told OM's wife? If so, then now RAP will find out where she stands with this man. That could be a rude awakening. It should be obvious to a WW that the man won't commit to her...why else would he not want his wife to know? Unfortunately when your head is in the clouds you do not want to see this. So NCW, this should be the moment of truth. PLEASE hang in there...remember how many times our Lord said we should forgive another!
It's not over.

Praying for you,

Julie

NCW: My prayers are with you my friend. Don't give up now, but keep your head up. It's not called the roller coaster for nothing, it just seems like you picked the longer ride. This may be one of the valleys, but there are peaks ahead. Be strong for your boys and lean on those here if need be.

God Bless!
RH

NC,

Truly, you have my sympathies.
I understand the hurt and pain of the continuing betrayal. These "cuts" do seem to hurt even MORE then the original ones (who ever thought THAT was possible?)
Especially when you've tried So hard!

With that said.... when, where and HOW Do you plan on telling the OM's Wife? (Hopefully you already did).

As well as his Job (since this IS where it ALL began).
Screwing the customers IS NOT good for business! (They will agree).

This aspect was what I had attempted to hammer home before.
That being that SHE   is the one that has to change HER thinking and that the OM  is not really the issue.
Unfortunately, she is STILL chasing him.

This "scaring" the OM (and your confronting him) is  not the panacea that you'd envisioned.
Sorry that you had to find this hard truth out for yourself.

In addition, keep in mind that she "Can" go for life with no contact.
However, just like everything else... she CHOOSES not to.

Walker, this IS her choice (and always has been).

NO one is doing this to her.....she is an adult and making her own decisions.

You've both read the stories here.
Yes, its hard. Yes, its tough. But you've read of plenty that have done it. (NC!)

Indeed, There are NO MORE excuses.
She's been to MBers.
She's seen changes in YOU.
She's even seen the truth about the OM & "fantasy" of the A.

It may be time now to protect yourself and stop being an enabler.
Why should she break contact for life, when she knows  you will "always" forgive her when she cries those crocodile tears?
Take away her security blanket and see if that doesn't introduce some cold hard "reality" to her world.
There have to be both boundaries and consequences in life. Simple fact.

I know for me,  the toughest part to accept was that my wife "knew" the OM did not want to leave his own marriage and was NEVER going to be with her (full time) or marry her.
And yet, she still choose to see him, conspire with him, and take HIS side in each and every decision (all the while I was trying to save the M).
This is a problem I have to this day. Its a tough one to get beyond.

I mean we could understand so much easier if the WW and the OM were attempting to Be together permanently.
But to be thrown away for something that isn't even "true love" is almost like insult to injury.
It makes you want to shake them and scream "WTF are you doing!!"

All I can say to your news is that you need to begin a different approach with different tactics.
This touchy feelie one ain't workin.
Hope she wakes up soon (before you DO pack it in).

In addition, Your not stupid. Far from it!
Your simply a man that wants both his wife and his family, and this WANT lead you to give her the benefit of the doubt. This is not a crime.
Believe me, all BS WANT to believe them.
However, now you know that not only can't you trust her.....in fact you shouldn't. (At least not till some time in the future when she EARNS it back).

So please, please tell us your Finally going to go and TELL the OM's  wife?
Hopefully, even you can  now see that it is WAAAAAY past the time for this to be done.

(Don't know if you have since you didn't say).
Expose to everyone & END any chance of the A continuing.

later

<small>[ August 09, 2004, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: top rope ]</small>

Oh Crap NcW, I just declared this day Great day in Idiotville, and then I see this thread. I'm such an Idiot!!! (the crowd screams YES in agreement)

I'm so sorry. (((HUG)))

RAP, I'm yelling, and shaking you now,
WHAT ARE YOU THINKING??????? HONEY, LET GO, BREAK FREE. YOU CAN DO THIS. STOP HURTING THIS MAN THAT LOVES YOU ENOUGH TO FORGIVE SUCH BETRAYAL.

NcW, I will be thinking of you and praying for you guys.

I hope you have told his W. I hope he is now scampering for his M, and will leave your poor Rap alone.

MB love,
Jelly

NC-

I’m so sorry this has happened.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She can only go one month without her fix.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you truly believe RAP is addicted? If so, what if she was addicted to heroin instead of OM?

Would you come to the same conclusion?

No offense intended.

If I can help you always have henry numb poem

“Victory belongs to the most persevering”. - Napoleon

<small>[ September 30, 2004, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: ncwalker ]</small>

NCW .... sorry man.

I think you have done an awesome Plan A....

I have some ideas, but don't know if you are open to them...

You can email me if you want to hear my ideas privately. pepperband_mb@excite.com ... if not, I understand.

I cannot say I am very surprised (sorry, my warning lights were going off for a long time about this) RAP is a sweet woman about to walk the plank again and fall into shark-infested waters.... after being pulled FROM said waters .... not in her right mind at this time. May need to be saved from herself by swift and decisive actions.

This situation is NOT hopeless... just tiresome and very disappointing. And cries out for some understanding as well as for action.

A challenge for your strength and faith, for sure.

Try to take your anger and turn it into muscle. Exercise. Go for a run. Lift weights. Box. Jump rope.

RAP .... if you are reading this ... if this were about one of your kids hooked on HEROIN .... what would you do? Would you advise that kid take one last "hit" for "closure"???? This contact is dumb and dangerous, and you are too smart to be doing this. Selfishness and self-destructive behavior ... is this where you heart really resides?

Sorry NCW, just sorry.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

NC,
How to respond to your post with out being negative? Hard at this point.

Others here advise that you should stay the course. Continue the good fight and go forward. And I’m sure that’s what you probably want to do, no matter how angry you are right now. And so having it validated is also what you probably want hear. So who am I to suggest anything different?

I must say this however. As much as your WW is obviously addicted to something that is detrimental to every aspect of her life, and as much understanding as you would like to give her for what can only be described as her sickness, it’s time now that you look long and hard to yourself.

When grown-ups determine that something in their life is so toxic that further indulgence only creates permanent damage, then it’s time to give it up.

Coach

NCW,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> RF90:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just wanted to let you know that it CAN get better. Don't let the "feelings" overwhelm you... focus on the mission of rebuilding your M.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rebuild? To what end? The house that was my marriage has been stripped down to bare rock because of my wife’s actions. Now I am to rebuild. I set a post and ask her to hold it while I set another. The OM walks by and she lets the post she is holding fall. I can’t do it alone. Maybe it is time to rebuild a one-room apartment instead of a 4 bedroom home. She does not feel that “Radical honesty” is important. I’m not saying we are all good at it. We all make mistakes. But to her, the principle of radical honesty does not bear witness. She has said “I never should have told you” too many times. Would you build your house on that foundation?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My house was stripped down to nothing multiple times by several different OM... My W had no idea what radical honesty was during her A's. She lied to me over and over again. I've heard the "I never should have told you" so many times, but I don't hear it now.

Now I hear how thankful my W is that I placed my trust in Christ to get us through all of this mess... and that I didn't throw her away like everyone told me to do. I see it in my girls faces when they smile...

To answer your question of "Would you build your house on that foundation?"

No. I built the foundation of our NEW marriage on Jesus Christ, not on the actions or trustworthyness of my wife.

NC, I know you're hurting. I feel for you... I've been there many times myself... but you said it yourself... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have plenty of faith in God. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then step out in faith and LOVE your wife.

I'm praying for you brother...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> In truth, it is a great day for me, for I am not going to be stepped on again. If she wants to be my partner, that is fine. But 16 years of trust will have to be earned back again. I am at ground zero on trust. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">EXACTAMUNDO! That's EXACTLY where you need to be! If you decide to stay - and I'll grant you it's a big if to decide on, but if you decide to stay there is only one entity you put your trust in, my dear friend. You know who it is, He's so near and dear to your heart right now...but that is the only One! When you feel the need to trust, give it to God, my friend....He will tell you when it's all right to give it to anyone else. Listen to Him.

I'll tell you sometimes you have to get to ground zero before you can build anything...I know this from experience.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> At what point do you say my way or the highway? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Honestly? When you give it to God and he answers. So far, for me, the answer has been to stay. What do you hear? Listen. He will tell you.

Oh NCW! I'm so sorry! RAP! Please dear, WAKE UP! You're blowing your chance at true happiness - the forever kind of thing - not a pipe dream!

- Kimmy

Pepperband:

I have NOT done an awesome Plan A. GrayCloud comes to mind when you think of Plan A. I did NOT expose the affair at the outset. I STILL love bust and fall into disrespectful judgments. At the end of the day, my strength to execute plan A has been wanting. You see snippets of my life here, and it may be misleading.

There are others on this board going through worse. She did not sleep with him again. If that was happening to me, my Plan A would last about a day, then I would go to plan B. Not the recommended 6 months. I don’t know how you guys who do it do it. I could not.

As far as my next steps, they are simple. I am not going to throw my wife out of the house, but it is my way or the highway at this point. I will probably require that she now tell the OMW. She apparently has no concept of the pain of betrayal and I think seeing this on the OMWs face as she tells will finally drive it home. I had mercy on her regarding this as she has to go to the same school this year and will see her there. I did not want her to be the “shunned woman” who stole the husband of this nice lady. The OMW has been involved with the school for some time and has lots of friends there. I was trying to spare my wife that grief. I am now wrestling with this decision. She told me last night she would leave me if OMW found out. But I have told her I would leave her if she contacted again. So now there are lines in the sand. And I have stepped over many. Is it too much to ask that as a token of love, she step over one? Or is that wrong? The fact that I am even considering “testing” my wife to see if she loves me disturbs me greatly. It was not supposed to be like that. You love them, you trust them, you try not to hurt them and they do the same. I have been getting “Thanks for loving me, BUT I need to figure this out…” Which is what all FS get. I am sorry. I am not as noble in this as I come across. There are just some things you don’t do. She has done them. I was frankly astonished that I could forgive at all. And I have. But she has no respect for boundaries. She went for a walk Sat night with a neighbor lady. No problem. She said she would be gone a little bit. I said OK, I had the kids. About 2 hrs later she comes bopping in. Why couldn’t she call? She didn’t even seem to comprehend WHY that would make me worry. Where is the respect for the boundaries?

We have been together for 16 years and this boundary thing has been a problem. I have had problems too, and am working on them. This affair was a shock. A wake up call for me and now I am REALLY working on my problem. Romans 8:28. God can turn this for good. But we had TALKED OVER this meeting she “had” to have. She KNEW it would hurt me. She KNEW nothing would come of it. What does she know now? NOTHING. I had confronted the other man. What is he going to say but things to protect his family? She will NEVER know “what he really thought.” She crushed my heart on a gamble that had no chance of success. The data has been polluted. All she had to do was NOT do it. Apparently, she has such strong feelings for him that I am second best. She has always been first for me. I want a PARTNER, not a project. That implies trust and honesty. That is what this is about.

Coach3530:

There is wisdom in your words. Would that I did not have 3 kids who are going through a big change right now (new school). I realize I am really running on emotions here. I once quoted to someone in this board that “Where sense is wanting, everything is wanting.” At this point, I am in a holding pattern. I am redefining my pieces on the board based on these new events and I am going to sit tight for a while. Much can actually be gained through OBSERVANT inaction.

NCWalker

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ncwalker:
I will probably require that she now tell the OMW.

I 100% support this boundary!

In fact, this is what I was going to recommend !!! My H sat with OWH (his friend from childhood) and confessed their affair to him while I was present.

This act of integrity on my H's part is what saved our marriage.

I am not as noble in this as I come across.

Please forgive me if I gave you the impression I thought you were being noble! I think you are being human, with the capacity for noble as well as non-noble actions.

Call OMW, set up a time in a public place to meet, accompany RAP, and have her confess.

It's the right thing to do.

Pep

NCW - MB love and hugs!!! I am so very sorry for your pain!! (And RAPs, too - she obviously does not know what she has and is loosing!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Here's a book from me, I pray it helps!

What you want to hear: You have the option to stop now. God allows that. Not getting into a debate here, just plainly stating a fact. If you are that tired of having a home that is still (albeit, somewhat) intact, though really shaken, then you do have an out...you can look it up for your self in Matthew 19.

Part 2 - What (I think) you REALLY want to hear: You (from all appearances here) have been doing a great job. You've showered your wife with the attention and love that were missing. You've been trying your best to fulfill her needs. You've exposed yourself completely to her. Now you feel it's all in vain. That you two are no longer "equally yoked". I'm sorry to say, but however painful it is, adultery is not the unpardonable sin. How many times has this same "adultery" happened to us on a spiritual level? I've read most of your posts...one of my personal favorites was about the concert...I agreed whole-heartedly with your thoughts, but in retro-spect, I think you left something out. Man, it's also easy to get all wrapped up in the music and feeling the sway, only to realize that maybe you weren't as tuned in as you thought, and suddenly you've ended up back in the lobby...for some of us, we've even drifted out the door. I'm really praying for you (both of you), that God will allow your love for your wife to grow...and that He will fill that space in her with Himself, and with you - that space that's currently being filled by her addiction to this OM.

You can get through this!

Has there ever been a time when you've slipped up and not said the right thing...or not gone to the right place...only to go back to the Heavenly Father and tell Him - I'm sorry, please forgive me? only to do it again? You know He gives us tests, and we must continue to repeat them until we get the answers right. Thank goodness He doesn't "fail" us after one slip, or two, or even more. Someone else pointed to the scripture, and I'll add to that - it says 70x7 in a day! Man, THAT IS HARD!!! IT IS TORTURE!!! It seems impossible...but if you do have that "Spirit thing" you've talked about, He can take you through this. (I KNOW He can!!) He can fill your needs and your heart in ways you never thought possible. He can help your love grow even while your W is so lost in her own world it seems she may never recover. And, He can turn her around!

You can get through this!

You said she led you to salvation...it's in her somewhere. Maybe you are not the person to help her find it - for me, sometimes I'm the worst witness for my family. It's too easy for them to say - how can you act like that, I saw what you did. But in turn, I know when I've asked forgiveness, and they have to accept that - sometimes easier to do at a distance than when it's slapping you in the face.

YOU can get through this!

Some of my ideas: I understand her feelings for not wanting it to get out, after all, how embarrassing would that be, not so much for the OM, but truthfully, for her? We all need a "buddy" - someone to hold us accountable - I'm not sure that someone should always be our spouse. (And, personally, I don't think an IC would have enough contact to help either.) Maybe she needs a "new" "friend" - someone in your church who can call on her at any time of the day, just to see if she's doing ok. And, more importantly, someone she can run to when she's feeling the urges to contact the OM...of course, this MUST be a female, and someone who is VERY grounded in their own faith and marriage...I'm sure your Pastor could help you find someone like this if you're interested.

You can get through this!

Maybe a change of scenery is what you need...she even said that it was good not to have to worry about seeing the OM...not having to worry if he'd been anywhere around. ??Just an idea.

You can get through this!

Somewhere inside of you, there is an unctioning (?sp) - you know what I'm talking about - it's that little voice that says "I don't really want this to be over. I don't really want to walk away after all this time. I really do love her, despite all this pain." That little voice that says you can get through this!! That little voice that says "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me!" and then it repeats itself until that little voice is no longer a little voice, it's now almost screaming in your ears!! "I CAN DO ALL THINGS THROUGH CHRIST WHO STRENGTHENS ME!!!!!" Sometimes we need to scream that outloud too, not only for the obvious, but to remind ourselves that this is not completely about us! It is also about our children, our families, and especially, that person we've promised to be with through the good and the bad. (Remember - you yourself said Joy is not a feeling, it's a virtue...so is love, and peace, and longsuffering (patience), and gentleness (kindness), and goodness (spiritually), and faith, and meekness (humility), and temperance (self control). It's definitely more blessed to give than to receive - never can those words be more double-edged than in this kind of situation. You are receiving the bad through the infidelity...your living through the "worse". And (through appearances) your W is receiving the good. BUT, when we forgive and live out these virtues, we are giving to them - imagine that feeling, as one being so undeserving of love and salvation, but it's being thrown at you anyway! One day, you will be able to look back on this time and say - Wow! Who'da thunk?!!

And your W will be able to say the same thing about this wonderful man who has stood by her side through thick and thin...even when he didn't have to...he stayed because he was being an Ephesians husband - you know the verse "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her." Yup, there's a scripture in there too, that is to the wife...but you're not the wife, you're the husband...you fulfill your end, and on THAT day, you'll stand with your head held high. It's up to you to be responsible for your end - she'll have to find the strength to support hers. It'll come in prayer, my friend!

I'm not really sure if I have even made any sense here - I know the thoughts did, but possibly not the way I presented them. So, I'll leave you with one final thought (or as my Pastor says - can you give me just 5 more minutes??) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The family that prays together, stays together. It is just about, no - it is impossible to stay mad with someone if you have to hold their hand and pray with them and for them. I encourage you to do this - be that spiritual leader your home needs right now - sit your family in a circle, and be honest (maybe not all the gory details for the kiddies), but say - Mommy and Daddy are in need of YOUR prayers, kids. Pray that our marriage will be a good one - that's all they have to know! Then everybody hold hands, and PRAY! Send the kiddies off to bed, and Mommy and Daddy PRAY! You will be the one at first, she probably will tell you she can't, won't, doesn't want to...there'll be a million excuses...without being a dictator (because that's not the husbands job - that's God's) tell her - I love you, and our marriage, and our family, and God will hold me as the head of the household responsible...I want to pray. Then, pray generic things - don't beat her up in the prayer - pray for her strength; pray for her to make good judgements; thank God for her ability to cook, or clean, or whatever - find something to thank Him for. It'll be hard - very hard - at first, but it can happen. Man, I'm praying for you!!! You can do this!!!!!

~YL

YL,

If you were here right now, my flesh would want to beat you down and shout "How dare you!"

But my Spirit would want to give you a hug.

So {{{{{{YL}}}}}}.

Thanks. Needed to hear that.

Things have to be different. But my requirements as a husband have not changed.

Thanks.

NCW