NC:

I am praying for you.

Dearest NC -

You have gotten some great advice. I have noticed that you mentioned earlier that you feel that the advice you need though is not here on this board, but in the Bible.

Going off of that, remember that this is not only a physical battle you are fighting, but a spiritual battle as well. The enemy knows your weaknesses, just as he knows RAP's. He is using RAP's addiction to his fullest advantage.

Remember, he is here to destroy anything and everything he can before his time ends.

I have finally come to realize in my own situation how much of a spiritual battle it really was. Sure I sinned, I lusted, etc... But who's little minions made it so enticing? Sure as heck wasn't from the Lord.

I have said this before somewhere, put on the armour of God:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Eph 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
Eph 6:14 Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,
Eph 6:15 and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE;
Eph 6:16 in addition to all, taking up the SHIELD OF FAITH with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
Eph 6:17 And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Col 3:14 Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope this helps. You will be in my prayers.

Carol

NCWALKER:

I get home from a LONG day and what do I find: YOU Backtracking!
Come on man, what gives here?

IN fact, Neither of you are making any sense right now.
Sorry but its true.

She threatens " If you tell OMW .. I will leave.

YOU respond with: "RAP you GO & tell OMW OR I will leave."

WTF is going on here???

You are BOTH way too old for this child like Attitude.
[Mine, mine......NO its mine]..... AAARRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!

First, she WILL NOT leave. (or at least not permanently)
This is just her blustering and bluffing you to get her way.
(Seems she gets her way a lot......be it through tears or some other method).

Where is she going to go?
To a man that doesn't want her?
Please! She will be angry, YES.
But isn't she angry now anyway?

YOU think you might drive her away?
Did not exposing the A and (in your mind) protecting her, keep her away from him? NO!

Here's another warning:
For the sake of both your love and your sanity, you must take an action NOW.

You must either do the exposer to both the OMW as well as his work place (the Human Resources Department) OR you must go into a total Plan B.

These are your choices or your M is heading for a D.
NO, not a quick and pretty one......a slow and agonizing one........where in the end you will feel "nothing" for your once beloved W.

Why is this so?
Because of all the reasons you've been going over tonight.
This continued lying and deception is draining both your Love, Trust and mostly your Respect for your Wife.
Trust me , that the deception NOW is much worse and MUCH more DAMAGING to your "self" then the lies during the A.
At some point our hurt reaches a place we just can't recover from.

Don't feel like going into the why's, but your a smart guy ........you can feel this is true.
So you have to be the one to do something to protect whatever love and respect you still have for your W.
Believe me if you wait tooooo long and use it all up, YOU may not EVER be able to get it back. (Trust me on this one). I'm living it right now.

And it wasn't the A that caused it. (For me personally THAT in itself was a "wake up call").
NO! Sadly, it was all of her deception AFTER.
Don't let your W force you into the decisions I'm facing now.

YOUR already hinting at these feeling right now.
Believe me when I tell you that this mistrust & indecision are just a taste of what's to come, if you continue on this path.
Fortunately, you have the POWER to stop the slide before it takes Both of you tooo far down the road.
USE it now!

Its also too early to be giving up.
Your faith will not permit you to give up.......NOT until you've tried or attempted all you can do.
And we BOTH know That you HAVE NOT done all you can in this situation.

YOU are a Christian. You are also a man. And a H.
You are the Head of your household. It is up to you to protect and defend it.
Hence the duty falls to you to do the exposing.
Step up....He Will Be With YOU in this!

What are you afraid of?? NOT trying to be smart about this. Really I'm not.
However, Clearly something is holding you back and "fear" is many times the reason.

There is soooo Much more that NEEDS to be said, but I am just TOO frustrated right now to be off help to anyone.

Hence, I am going to go watch Monday Night Football (preseason) and see what I am like tomorrow.

In any case, I'll pray that you do as Knew better & others recommended and DO What YOU KNOW MUST Be done!

P.S. Knew Better- I like your style. Keep it coming.

Hold that thought.
I already posted 2 responses on this topic TO YOU walker earlier on.
Unfortunately, it fell on deaf ears.
I am going to repost those to you (as I am too tired to retype all those thoughts). Or maybe just lazy.
In any case, Perhaps your in a better frame of mind to receive what is offered this time around.
For your family's sake, I certainly hope so.
Any way, here they come ..........Again!

Your really a good guy. I hate that your in this position.
Sorry to come across like an a*s, but sometimes that's all that works.......ya know?

Any way here's the first one:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nc Walker,

Been keeping up on your posts & RAP's as well, but till now have been a silent observer.
Seems that you've BOTH been getting plenty of help and insight.
What a ride!
However, silent no more after this past weekends "highlights"

Let's quickly review:
You are ready to move, get a new job, even seriously contemplate a D....& yet you STILL WILL NOT contact this OM's wife?????
Are you kidding me?

Of course RAP does not want this.
AS proven this holiday (for whom) she is still wanting to carry that spark, that hope, that chance for them to be together....whenever.
Is your idea of a healthy M for one S to be the jailer of the other to forcibly keep them faithful?
Of course not! Then DO something about it! You'll never be there 24/7.

Do you get that your strategy is NOT Working?
The A is still ongoing as we sit here and type. IT must end. And YOU Have the Power to do it.

Yes, the light of day must be exposed to this.
You've been here at MBers long enough to know this.
Its one of the main principles: No recovery can begin until the A is ended.

Sadly, your also finding out that she can't (won't?) end it.

Indeed, Start with the OMW, but I'm sure his employer would agree that its not *Good Business* to be "doing" the married clients (since you claim it started there).

The bubble must be burst........the fantasy must END. By any means necessary. Only you can do this. Sad but true.
Sorry, but OMW can't (she doesn't know) and RAP & OM don't want to. (They like things the way they are).

The pattern:
IT happens , she says "ooppss, I'm sorry".... your mad.....you cool off.......then "ooppps, I'm sorry" and ON and ON.

RAP and OM are happy that you've agreed to be a coconspirator to their A.
They appreciate you bearing the entire burden of trying to cope with their Selfish choices. Also for being understanding enough to see things THEIR way.
In addition, OMW can................................

YOU know what? YOUR right.
You don't want to read this. You don't need any advise. So let me try and just close this

There is so MUCH more that could (& should) be said about exposer..........but my instincts tell me what's the use. IMO pointing out the benefits of this action would be a continued waste of time. So lecture on that over.

Unfortunately, you've BEEN given this crucial advise before and dismissed it (not right time, RAP doesn't want it, ect.,).
You have Already made up your mind on this topic and who are any here to question your wisdom.
It's working out so far (NOT). So just continue doing what your doing.

Shaking head as I type.

You haven't even come Close to doing ALL you can to put an end to this.
So either take the action you already know is needed or just let it go.
Stop standing in this NO mans land... (its destroying you).

Truly hope you start taking the actions necessary to heal your M. (Perhaps this weekend is the jolt you need to make the call).
Remember its like school...master and pass 1st grade BEFORE going on to 2nd.
Cause like it or not UNTIL the A stops (meaning TOTAL NC) then all the rest won't add up to a hill of beans.
You'll just be stuck in this continued cycle of frustration.
Consider stopping it Now. Please.

NOT sorry for the message, but do regret my tone (& letting my anger come out). You just really got my dander up fella.
Take care & Enjoy the fish.


</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

And here's # 2

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Nc walker,

IT is clear that your heart and priorities are in the right place.
To continue to support your W, is touching, and Oh so right.

However, IMO you are still defending making a poor choice for your M's recovery.
That is in refusing to tell OMW.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From NC Walker:
I know that OMW needs to know. I know he is risking her health, etc. But it would NOT be good for RAPs health to have to deal with OMW. I am not sure of HER stability if she knew. I seem to be the only stable one right now. At this point, I cannot worry about someone else's house until MY house is in order. May be callous, but it is what I have to do.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please hear this: Your main reason in Exposer is not for the OMW......it is For Your Wife!

Please believe me when I share with you that your battle is not with the OM.
No, its really not.
Unfortunately, YOUR battle/challenge is with the emotions and feelings that your W associates with the OM. Your challenge is to overcome and break the "fantasy" and illusion of the A.

Until you accomplish that goal, RAP will continue to break down and go back, because she is addicted.

As far as OM goes, Leave him out of it.
By confronting OM only, you have wasted a Huge Opportunity.

Indeed, If you would just tell OMW she would at the very least put heat on him to stop seeing/ talking to someone she sees as an easy "homewrecker".

The true Value to OMW knowing is that SHE will force OM to LB on your W.
She will FORCE him to show his True self and True colors.
His Real intentions towards your W will be shown...... to RAP .
As a result, she'll be FORCED to face and accept this.
This will do MORE to end her fantasy and bring her sanity back to you, then a year of talks and discussions with you.

When the OM turns his back on a WW, and shows her that she really does mean nothing (other then a good time), this is like a bucket of ice water in a WW face.
It also permits all the "good" feelings to be released.
She can stop pining away for OM (as she knows he doesn't and never did want her). Not the way she wants him to.

The problem is that right now, RAP is there with you physically, but that's it.
She is still emotionally and mentally waiting for him.

Yes, she will have some will power for a short time, as she just got her last "Fix" of OM a few days ago. So the guilt is over powering the "addiction".
However, Make no mistake that the further you get away from Sat., the more she will "obsess" and eventually make contact with him.

A question for you.
Did this OM already know that YOU knew about him?
If he did then he still had NO Problem coming to YOUR house to be with your W only a few days ago. He is just going to wait till the storm blows over and then wait until your WW contacts him. He knows the drill. He knows she will come back.
You need to understand this fact as he does.

Force HIM to end things with your W. Make him show her who he really is.

I realize you Think you are doing this to protect your W. That quality is admirable. It truly is.
But by NOT telling OMW you are in actuality, Prolonging your W's suffering (and thereby your own as well).
The best thing that can happen to RAP is to get the OM to totally turn his back on her, while telling her that she never meant anything to him (other then the obvious).

Will this cause her pain. Yes, but it will be quick & powerful, and then she can begin the slow process of healing herself.
Right now your STILL currently fighting the addiction.
Its obvious by both her actions and her posts here, that she is LOOSING that battle.

Lets be honest here. YOU already know in your heart that your going to Have to talk to OMW at some point.
Why? Because you know that there will be SOME type of contact at some point , and as you are a man of your word and will also feel like you have no other option.....you will go and tell her.
So why not just get to your recovery that much quicker and NOT go through any extra pain or drama?

And it doesn't even matter if he is smooth or the OMW doesn't believe you.
It will be enough that she insists he NEVER sees or talks to your (in her mind) "crazy" loony wife again.
If he is covering his A*S (most likely) and lies.....your wife will get to hear and know about the lies.
She will get to know that this OM DENIES any and everything she is holding onto as soooooo "special".
POOF, the fantasy is gone and most importantly is broken forever.

Do I appear adamant on this point? Good, cause I am.
I just don't want for the 2 of you to make the same mistakes I made, when it is not necessary for you to do so.
Keeping my W's A a secret, while they continued contact was the Biggest Mistake I made in this whole sordid process. Now I wish I had exposed the very 1st day I found out.
Please learn from someone else's mistakes & choose NOT to repeat them.

Forcing my W's OM to show his true colors and having him basically "turn" on my wife (trying to cover his own A*S of course) did more to break his hold on her then ALL the MC, IC, antidepressants, books and even my love and support ... COMBINED .

It was what got her to see things as they truly are , not How she wants them to be.
His lies Then, opened her Eyes WIDE to ALL the lies he'd been spouting for years.
She saw through the disguise to his true character. Of course it hurt her, but it was oh so necessary.

It's also the one thing that permitted her to free her self from him and make a true healing possible.
Her feeling used is awful, but her being in denial was much worse.

Your W NEEDS for you to do this for her.
She needs your help in this as she can't do it for herself.
She is incapable of breaking this on her own. Of course You see that.
She needs the pain of the OM's rejection, in order for her to begin to heal. Not pleasant, but necessary.
Otherwise, she is going to hold onto the fantasy (no matter how insane) forever.

You've already witnessed that all the rational talking to her, has little if NO effect.
Your support cannot break this, the good people here cannot "talk" her out of this............but her seeing the OM for whom he truly is ... CAN!

MAKE him SHOW her. Make him reveal himself.
For her own sake, if not for yours.

I know you don't want her a permanent hostage to some guy you think is scum.
So break his hold over her, by making HIM do the work for you.

YOU Tell his W (maybe even his work) and he lies and tells stories and brings the whole house of cards down. All you do is light the fuse and watch as your W (your real W) begins to come back to you.

Remember if only done before, there would have been no relapse this weekend.
Don't kid yourself that this wasn't preplanned by RAP to send her family away to arrange a "get together".
Agreed that can't be changed now. But what can be changed is to correct the mistake of NOT exposing.

Your recovery will not begin, UNTIL the A ends.
In RAP's heart and mind it is not over.
You have the power to end it, will you?
Even if not instant, IT WILL Be the begining of the end!

Right now you are in a nightmare.
Tell the OMW and have your wife wake up from her dream.
In the end, she will thank you for saving her....from herself.

All right enough from me.

Continue to take care of her.
Your mountain is steep, but if ascended together......what a view!

Wishing you only success in your struggle.
Take care


</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Good lord, NCW. I hope you're talking to OMW right now.

GC

GC, I hope he is too.

It's very well documented on this board how my H told OM's W. I even linked the thread for NCW once (I think).

Expose, expose, expose, expose.

I nearly went and banged my head on the wall with frustration hearing about "closure". I've been on this board since February and if I had $1 for every time I've heard the word "closure" I could come and visit you all in the States.

Jen

<small>[ August 10, 2004, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

Hello all.

I must be driving you all nuts. You all have hit some important points.

I have been modifiying Plan A to protect my wife.

I have been allowing her to modify my behavior with pleas/tears/anger.

I have been praying, but will pray more.

I have weighed what has been told and am will incorporate that into what I see as the best course of action for my family.

Today is my 14th wedding anniversary.

I have lots to do, so I will be gone for a while.

Thanks, NCWalker

NCW,

I have a question for you and RAP....

Do you desire God's presence or do you desire His presents ?

Do you want each other for what the other can GIVE you, or do you want each other for WHO YOU ARE?
Do you love GOD for the blessings He MIGHT give you, or do you love Him whether or not He supplies blessings?
Does God's doing your "bidding" PROVE that He loves you?
Is it not a relief to you to know that for God, you do not have to do "A" (right behavior) to get "B" (His love and eternal life).

Is that not what you truly desire from and FOR each other?

There is a worm inside every single one of us. You have discovered this worm in each other. But have you seen it in yourself?
Now what are you going to do?

I love you both....

Onlywords

I said a Prayer for you today
By Rinda Nelson

I said a Prayer for you today,
I know that our Lord heard.
And asked that he would bless you,
As He promised in his word.

I didn't ask for wealth or glory,
I knew you'd understand.
I asked for God to send you joy,
And lend a helping hand.

I asked that He surround you,
With his love and constant care,
To give you health and bless you,
With friends who will be there.

I prayed for comfort for you,
For peace of mind, and then......
I asked that He remind you,
I'll pray for you...... again.


NCW - it is certain that we all need a wall of prayer surrounding us...one of the best comforts of being a Christian is knowing that we share one anothers burdens...and that when I am strong I will pray for you, and when I am weak, you can pray for me. You are feeling weak right now, allow God to fill you with His strength, so you can accomplish the tasks at hand.

Am praying for you - your strength...spiritually, mentally, and physically; and your mind...ability to accept His answers and knowledge to know where to find those answers. He never promised the road would be easy, only that He would go with us, carrying us when needed...always holding our hand.

At one of the lowest times of my life, God directed me to this verse...I pray it helps you too. Isaiah 41:13 For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee.

Prayers ~YL

NC,
Your head must be spinning by now. Mine is and that’s just from reading all the posts on this thread.

First of all, full disclosure is with out any doubt in my mind, your obligation to not only your marriage but to the concept of simple human decency. The OM’s W needs t know the truth. You can’t believe that this is the first time that he’s done this after all. You can’t even really believe that your W is the only one he was doing it with at he time RAP was having her PA with him. The man is a menace!

Second, here’s a thought that I’m sure may be ruminating in the back of your mind some where. Maybe your W’s non-recover has nothing to do with an addiction. Maybe she’s simply made a choice. May be she’s decided that this is how she wants to live her life. She says differently but you already know that what she says has no meaning. Not when compared to what she does. Is this possible?

Third, sitting back and waiting, doing nothing can be effective. Just as not speaking in various situations can be effective. Waiting patiently to make an informed decision is more then effective. Not taking action when it’s called for however, is making a decision to accept the status quo. Repeatedly doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting change to occur, is living in a state of denial.

Yelling and screaming at your W, spitting on her or treating her with terrible anger and hostility, no matter what the provocation, is an exercise in self-abuse. The only person you diminished by such action is yourself. But you already know that.

Have you considered however, that your anger is a manifestation of your inability to bring a meaningful solution to solving this problem? You can’t be angry at RAP for being who she is but you are. Worse yet, your acting out in anger about your inability to control the situation but we all know that we have no control over our WSs in these situation. It’s the first thing we learn. The only thing you can control is you!

RAP has hurt you and to the bone. Of this there is no doubt. But your anger? That’s reserved for yourself. You know you haven’t done everything you can to solve the problem so I expect, you will continue to live in anger and resentment until you do. And I think it would be the same for you even if RAP never spoke to the OM or any other OM again. Which brings us back to full disclosure. Or am I wrong?
Coach

Dear NCW & RAP,

Happy anniversary to you Both! (hope that's not inappropriate, considering this thread).

Boy, this is a coincidence.
Our 14th anniversary is tomorrow.

So you've got me beat by one measly day.
Since that is the case, here's hoping that I never end up catching and passing you.
(As well as hoping that you never get any further ahead of us then those slim 24 hours!)

Even though we've never actually met, I suppose that from now on every year at this time....YOU, your W and your situation will cross my mind.

Maybe we'll both still be posting here (as OOOLD timers) and I will be able to get my curiosity satisfied.
In any case, Funny how "triggers" can get started, HUH?

<small>[ September 30, 2004, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: ncwalker ]</small>

<small>[ August 15, 2004, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: 2B Us Again ]</small>

<small>[ September 30, 2004, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: ncwalker ]</small>

Hi NCW. I’ve never posted to you before, but followed yours and RAPs story a little. I’m so sorry for what you’re going through. I know how it feels. It’s so much harder to pick yourself up when you truly thought you’d arrived at the recovery stage. I think forgiving things my H has done since the full blown affair is much harder than forgiving the A itself. It’s so cruel to be plunged back into darkness, when you’ve been fooled into thinking you could see the light.

I think exposing the A to OMW will ‘turbo boost’ you towards recovery. Everyone here is right. My H didn’t even begin to stop fantasizing the A until exposure. Then he really started to see the OW in a different light. He had no choice, because she couldn’t keep up the act AND deal with consequences. He still has the fantasy tucked away in his heart, but there is now no denying that she was never all that. It’s a painful realisation, but it was the only way he’d ever free himself.

This is just my opinion, but I don’t think you should take exposure further than OMW for the moment. Please try and think what that would do to the poor woman. Remember how hard you’ve tried to hush up the A. At least give her the same courtesy. Let her deal with it in her own way, at least for now. You may well find that RAPs humiliation will only be limited to OMW. I doubt she’d want the whole world knowing any more that RAP does. Maybe you could talk with her about this.

I’m sure that taking this action will give also give you a sense of control back into your life. It’s for the best. Good luck NCW.

And please. Scrutinize me. I am REALLY running on feelings here. Part of the reason I post when my feelings are out of control is to read what I wrote and ask if it makes sense. Also why I am running all this by my MC.

NCW

Horizon,

I guess I have left something out. I am preparing these letters to be scrutinized by my MC. I am not sending them. I will do that only with the OMW blessing after I tell. You are correct in that she should be afforded the decency that was abused by RAP. And that was my intention, I just did not include it in my post.

NCW

ok, NC, I think telling the OMW is a good idea, but I can't see any valid purpose for telling neighbors or acquaintences. It will only cause permanent damage to RAP with no benefit. You don't want to RUIN your wife, you just want to end the affair. Those people have no business knowing this. I think just telling the OMW will take care of this situation just fine.

<small>[ August 15, 2004, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: 2B Us Again ]</small>