Well we went away this weekend to visit my husbands mom and I thought we could go out together and stuff. Well I thought wrong. We get there and he decides all of a sudden he needs a cellphone. So he went to Verizon and got one. My heart just broke. I know why he did it.

He will be moving to a different dept at his job and will be going to work very early and coming home early. And I don't think he wants to make long distance personal calls in the new office. So now he can call her everyday. Does not have to buy phonecards that I find the sales slip for and can pretty much continue everything.

As a matter of fact I know for sure he has already called her the same night he bought the phone. Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I am so hurt. I was so sad all weekend. Seems like he keeps doing little things that he knows will hurt me on purpose. I just don't understand why though. It's like he doesn't care about me at all.

I try to push it from my mind but it doesn't help. I think about him calling her everyday and getting even more emotionally connected to her. Sneaking behind my back when we are out to talk if she calls and stuff like that. Makes me so paranoid. Saturday I just about had enough. I was ready to throw in the towel. Well on Sat night he decides hey can I hang out with my friend. I said sure but I told him could he be back around midnight or so. Well I don't even know what time he got in he ended up sleeping on his moms couch. I think it was more like 3 in the morning. He told me that his friend had a birthday and about 5 other guys took him to a topless club. I was so shocked because my husband thinks they are silly. Just a tease. He swears he never went up to where they were dancing and swears he never even gave one of them a dollar. But it still bothers me.

It's like he has returned to the single college guy or something. He is doing things that say hey you can't tell me what to do or you have no say in the matter. He says he feels like he can't do anything in our marriage. Which he knows is not true. He can do anything you wants but he knows what things are not ok in a marriage.

There was a few good things that came out of it. I took the book His Needs Her Needs with me and was reading it. I read some parts to him. The concept of love bank and meeting certain needs. He totally agrees with it. I realized that I wasn't meeting his needs that he needed as he wasn't meeting mind either like he could have. We both kind of gave up when we didn't see each other trying to please us. I am totally committed to meeting his needs. I know his major need is conversation and admiration.

It is hard with the whole conversation thing. Because he gets into a subject and words things very deeply. You really got to read betwen the lines to understand him. And most of the time what he is saying can be taken many ways so it leads to me thinking something different than he is saying then he gets fustrated. But I will figure out how to meet that need. Because I know that this is why he does continue to call the OW. She is more like a outlet for him. Our MC agreed and told him he needed to find other outlets than her.

He also told me that right now he feels like he is pushed in a corner. All of his sisters and his mother are on his case to stop with the OW and stay with me. I didn't have to tell them much they pretty much figured a lot of things out on their own. He says when everyone is pushing you into a corner and you fell trapped and kind of harrassed then what will happen? He says that it makes a person do the opposite of what people are telling him because it's like a rebellion stage. He says that is why he says fine I want a divorce and stuff because he already feels bad for what is going on and his family and me keep getting in his face about it daily.

I want to back off. And just do plan A. I also told his mom and sisters to let him alone for awhile to see if that makes any difference. It is so hard though knowing he is calling her now more than ever. He says he hates seeing me in pain and knowing he caused it hurts more.

So what do I do about the cellphone? Should I just be quiet and see what happens? It makes me so angry that another woman can be with someone that has 2 kids and a pregnant wife. Lives 10 hours away from her and he said both of them know it wouldn't work if they got together. So why mess other peoples lives up for your own happiness? I will never understand this. It's like they don't have any guilt or something.

He told me that when I contacted her she felt harassed. He said sometimes that makes the OW more determined to stay and not care about the wife. Said if I would have just left her alone she would have eventually made the right decision because she felt guilty. After I made so comments and stuff I guess the guilt left.

So now I am left wondering what to do. I did ask him what kind of man does this to his wife knowing she is almost 7 months pregnant and that stress is not good. I said what kind of man leaves and doesn't try with someone who has been there for them and loves them dearly. His response was a fu**** up man. So he knows but right now he is so angry at me. I know I went about doing things the wrong way. I was constantly on his case about her and ending it and not focusing on some of the real issues. Like meeting his needs. I just hope it's not to late to make him see I am the person he wants in his life.

<small>[ August 09, 2004, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: SadMarylandLady ]</small>

How am I suppose to act like it doesn't bother me about the whole cellphone thing when it is eating me alive?

SML, he is in the throes of an A.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Seems like he keeps doing little things that he knows will hurt me on purpose. I just don't understand why though. It's like he doesn't care about me at all.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right now, he doesn't care about you. He cares about her. I asked my H this same thing yesterday. HOW could he not notice my pain, how could he do all those things that hurt me so? He said, "I didn't notice you at all. I was in a relationship with her, not you." And that hurts, and sucks, but it is reality.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You really got to read betwen the lines to understand him. And most of the time what he is saying can be taken many ways so it leads to me thinking something different than he is saying then he gets fustrated. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm telling you, SML, this sounds like a communication problem on HIS part. Something he can use to say, "See, you don't understand me. We shouldn't be together." OW doesn't understand him any better than you do - she isn't telepathic. Either he is explaining more to her, or he is being more patient with her. This is not about you, and your comment:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But I will figure out how to meet that need. Because I know that this is why he does continue to call the OW. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">really concerns me. Because this is not about you. You cannot stop him from wanting to be in the A. He continues to call the OW right now because he CAN. Plain and simple. He is cake-eating, and justifying the cake-eating by trying to make you think you are deficient in some way. You are not.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He says that it makes a person do the opposite of what people are telling him because it's like a rebellion stage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this is human nature. At least, it was the exact same for my H. The only time he didn't feel judged or bad, was when he was with her, or talking to her. Because she understood him! She felt the same way! Which is why it is important that you don't show him your pain all the time. He is not going to talk with you about his feelings if you show a negative reaction. He will call her instead.

I know it is hard. It took me a long time to be able to do it. I just had to realize that his feelings were just FEELINGS. They weren't forever. And, surprisingly, once he said them to me out loud, they didn't seem to last much longer for him. My H describes it as a mind-game he played with himself. He had to create a reality in his head, to justify his actions - because he is not a bad person, he felt that the only way he could hurt me so is if it was true love, destiny, meant to be. See the circular thinking there?

Oh, and the icing on the cake!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Said if I would have just left her alone she would have eventually made the right decision because she felt guilty. After I made so comments and stuff I guess the guilt left.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, never heard that one before - NOT! This is crap. As WAT says, crap crap crap. He calls it crap because he says he cannot say bul!sh*t on the forum. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> DO NOT buy into this line of thinking. Neither of them are thinking of you. If either of them had guilt strong enough, it would be over already. This is so much of the fog. Pure script.

I understand about the cell phone. I don't have any ideas for that. Hopefully, one of the vets will be along soon to give you good advice.

Sounds like your love bank is running low. Do you have a realistic timeframe for Plan A? Still think you can do this until the end of the year? He will keep doing more and more - as much as he can. It is the nature of the A, not the nature of your H. I understand he is a good man - mine is too. But addiction is powerful.

Lots of love. Gotta get to the gym and STEP!

SS

SML - I'm so sorry to hear this. I know how difficult it is dealing with all this while being pregnant. But at the same time it is what keeps me going. I would be so lost without my baby to keep me strong and focused.

One thing I had a problem with was I thought my WH was different. He wasn't the same as all these other WH's here that everyone was dealing with. He was better then that. I think all BS's want to think that. But the truth is, they are all the same. Realizing this does help to deal with a lot of the pain.

How do you see your WH and your situation? Are you able to see the similarities between what he says and does with what other WH's do?

SS,
I am leaning more towards plan B everyday. I am getting to the point where I can't take it anymore. Yes I still see my real husband sometimes and that makes me hold on a little longer. But lately he has turned into a man I hardly know. So cruel to me. He does not care how I feel. Of course when you say anything about OW he gets real mad and defends her.

He really said something that hurt me so deep the other day. We were talking about our relationship and him wanting to leave. I told him I wasn't going to give up on him till he walked out the door. That I was going to keep trying. He looked at me and said don't you have any self worth. So someone trying to save their marriage has no self worth? So this weekend we were talking about the OW. I told him what he said to me the other day really bothered me. I told him to ask the OW the same question. Ask her if she has any self worth since she is pursuing and allowing a married man to pursue her knowing he has 2 kids and a pregnant wife. He got soooooooooooooooo upset. Said he had enough. To stay out of his face that I was frustrating him. But it was the truth. I think that is why it effected him so much.

I don't know if I will go with plan A till the end of the year. I really don't know when I will go to plan b. It's getting to the point where I may just have enough and do it.

Kloe,
I do see that he is so much alike the other WS's. I to thought I found someone that would never do that. He was such a good guy and still is but has fallen to a place that even he cannot stand himself. I do realize what I have done to make our marriage to where it is. But ultimately everyone has a choice and I never thought he would do what he has. I just hope he wakes up soon and realizes he is killing me inside. And do something about it.

SML,

This is really difficult for you and being pregnant surely does not make it any easier. I know that we have talked about this so often already, but I'm not going to give up on you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Right now, it is simply impossible to have a relationship talk with your husband, yet you keep trying and therefore pushing him further and further away. I totally understand what you are going through and I, unfortunately, did the same. Kept pushing and pushing, asking about OW, trying the guilt trip, but it wasn't working and it's not working with your husband either. The more you ask and push, the more he is going to say things that are going to hurt you and destroy your self-esteem. Maybe Plan B would work for you. You can always try it because this is slowly killing your love for him.

My husband acted just like your husband and the more I would push him, the more he would call OW and stay away from me because all he would see is this depressed and sad little thing sitting in the house, wallowing in her self-pity and making him feel guilty and sad.

Plan B will be hard, very hard and you should only do it when you are ready, but you also want to preserve your love for your husband.

Kati

Kati,
Thanks for not giving up on me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I really do try not to talk about our relationship or make comments. A lot of the time he brings things up and we start talking or something really really bothers me and I break down.

I am going to try to put everything aside and focus on things right now. I want to save my marriage and I know if things keep going the way they are I am not going to be able to do that. But it is so hard acting like it doesn't bother me knowing he is able to call her more frequently now. It is eating me inside. I sit around thinking about it and crying. I don't want to feel like this anymore but I also am not ready to make the step to plan B.

I am going to try to work on some of the things that I know will make a difference. I know I didn't cause the affair but I can make it so things are more attractive to him around here. Thanks for everyone's advice. I plan to vent here instead of at him in the future and see if that makes a difference.

SML,

Next time he starts the R talk, maybe you could just acknowledge his feelings and tell him that you understand what he is feeling. Basically mirror everything that he is telling you back to him. But don't do it in a way that makes him think that you are mocking him. Listen to what he says and just acknowledge his feelings, but don't get sucked into another battle about his feelings and OW. Nothing good ever comes out of those and it brings you down.

Go out and do some things with your kids. Have you been down to DC lately? You could take the Metro to the botanical gardens. It's so pretty there and then have a picnic with the kids on the Mall. Then you'll have exciting things to tell him and you won't need to talk about R and OW.

The key is to make coming home safe and fun again. When you sit around at home all day and cry, it makes him feel bad and he doesn't want to come home because he knows that once he gets home, he gets bombarded with questions about the OW and his calls to her again. In reality, there is really nothing that you can do right now to stop him from calling her and he knows that. So sitting and home and crying your eyes out, is not going to help at all. It's going to push him further towards OW because guess what? I doubt that she sits at home and cries for or about him. No, she's out there doing fun things and that's what he likes about her. It's easy conversation, fun, she makes him feel alive. Coming home is like death! BUT, the good thing is that you know this now and you can change it around. You may not feel like it, but you definitely have the upper card. You are his wife and the mother of his children.

I don't know what else I can say, but I just want to let you know how much I understand how you feel right now because I've been there.

So, no more R talk right now! Go out and enjoy the weather. Times like these don't happen very often in DC. I was out there on my lunch break today and it's about as perfect as it can be.

Kati

Okay, maybe if I put it this way . . . your WH is not going to make this all better for you. You can hope, wish, pray, cry, scream, whine, pout, and even stomp your foot. Is it fair? He!! no! Does it totally suck a$$? Of course it does! Can you live through it? You bet your maternity shorts you can, missy.

What would your plan be if, God forbid, anything ever happened to your WH? What if he died tomorrow in a car accident? What would your plan be? You would have to face the reality of it, and move on as best you can. Well, there is a chance your M is not going to survive this. That is the cold hard reality. There is no magic plan, magic words, magic pill.

Once you can wrap your brain around that, everything will change for you. See, SML, you cannot be looking for your WH to change right now. YOU have to change. He may or may not follow, but you must become OK on your own. Begin looking at your future without him. Begin planning where you could live, what kind of support he would need to provide for you.

If he plans on moving to where OW lives, what would custody look like? Could you stay in the home you are in now? Get your head out of hoping for him to do something, because it ain't going to happen. Get your head in to facing what you life has become.

Yep, you could be a single mother. Have other women done that before? Yep. Preparing for the worst will not create the worst. In fact, my experience has been the opposite. Don't tell your H you are preparing. You are preparing for YOU, not him. DO NOT wait for all of this to be on his terms, HIS conditions. You must protect your family - your kids.

Your H is crazy right now. He doesn't know up from down, forward or backward. YOU are the only hope right now, first for your kids, second for your M. Have you figured logistics yet? Are your ducks in a row?

Your love bank is draining fast. You need to get everything straightened out. Prepare. Chance favors the prepared, you know. When you become prepared for anything, the balance of power shifts back to you. This is "gut check time," as Monica on "Friends" says. You are every bit as capable of doing this as I am. You don't WANT to, understandable, but you CAN.

What do you think of that???

SS

Kati,
I agree with you that he see the OW as fun and independant and that does draw him in. When he comes home we do nothing and lately it's been just one big fight after another regarding how he is making me stressed or sad. I know that this is wrong that nobody wants to come home to somewhere where they are attacked.

I realize this and agree also that I need to start doing things with my sons and myself and forget him. He can either come along with us for the fun or he can sit back and continue what he is doing with her. Eventually if I know him like I think the guilt will eat him alive. If not then maybe we weren't meant to be. I already know if he does leave and gets with the other woman that they have no chance of making it. But he doesn't see that and says it's not about her.

SS,
I agree with you about making plans without him kind of like preparing for the worst case. Thursday I did look at some apartments online close to my parents house to see if I could afford them. Also I have a part-time job starting on Monday that can be full-time eventually if I want it.

I never depended on a man in my life. Before my husband I lived my own life. I didn't get married till I was 25. So I had my own things, did my own things, and didn't answer to nobody. So if I had to go back to that I will. I guess I just don't want to but that may not be a choice if he keeps things up. He already talked to me about if we split about about money, visitation, and other things. I have no problem with him seeing the kids but I do have a problem if he wants the OW involved with them in anyway. That is not negotiable. And if I really needed some place to go. I am always welcome at my parents house. They have a large enough house that my kids and me would all have rooms and be welcomed there.

Tonight I am not going to LB at all. Even though I know on the way home from his work he will be calling her. If he can live with it so can I. I know now I didn't do anything wrong that he is the one with the problem. Only I can work on me. I want to be a better person for me. Not him. I know I did things that helped him along gave him excuses but for what he has done really there is no excuse. But I have the chance to change and make things right. Wonder what excuse he will have then?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Wonder what excuse he will have then? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good question. Of course, don't underestimate a foggy WS, they are quite creative.

BUT, I understand what you are saying. I think you are beginning to understand. It is a process. I am not trying to be doom and gloom. I personally see a lot of hope for you M. I truly do. BUT, there are no guarantees.

Since your independence is still fresh in your mind, that is going to be your greatest asset. The more you can show your H that, remind him of who YOU are, the better. Does that make sense?

See, I had to find all of that on my own. I have been with H since I was 16! Yikes!!! I don't know my biological father very well. My mother has dimentia and lives in a nursing home. I have one aunt that lives in my town, but she is not the best support.

I had to dig deep within myself, and I was pleasantly surprised with what I found in there. I am so much more than I ever thought I was - so much more than even my H thought I was, and he has always been my best support. My H promised to never abandon me as I felt I was by everyone else in my life. And he did. He promised to never lie and deceive me. And he did. I didn't think he was capable of the kind of hurtful things he did and said during his A. But he was. Under the right circumstances, anyone is capable of anything.

Hang in there, hon. I don't know much about Maryland D laws. I know in Virginia (my friend D'd when we lived there), you have to be separated for a year before the D is final. I live in Idaho, and we are a no-fault state. Which means if one person wants a D, all the other can do is delay it. It will eventually happen. And I also know that in Idaho, the only time kids can be kept from the OP is during the legal separation. Once the D happens, who the kids are around cannot be controlled.

So, find out about that kind of stuff. Knowledge is power. Does Maryland have allimony? Idaho has Spousal Support, which is different. Child support here is done off of a formula, including the custody agreement (how much $$ you get depends on how often you have the kids).

Honestly, my H and I were talking on our walk yesterday about how unacceptable I would have found it if H would have continued the A during our separation. If OW hadn't dumped him, and he carried on with it, I don't know how well I could have handled that. Everyone has their own limits with what they can endure. We all understand.

Take care, hon.

SS

SML - I think you're on the right track. Spider Slayer said it so well. I know you can do it. I'm heading out of town tomorrow and won't be back until Sunday. I won't have access to a computer during this time but I'll be thinking about you and wishing you well.

Thank you Kloe!! You will be in my prayers. Have a safe trip.

My husband isn't home yet and it's almost 9pm. He should have been here about 7 or 8. I tried calling his cell but I just get the voicemail. I keep picturing him sitting somewhere talking to her.

Our 3 year old wanted so much to hug his daddy goodnight but he just fell asleep without getting to do that. That breaks my heart. And it also makes me see that if my husband does leave that he will take it hard.

I feel like crying and asking him why he keeps doing this. But I promised myself no LB's tonight. And I am not going to ruin it now. He can talk to her all he wants. I will work on myself and if he wants to continue with this little 20 year old then it wasn't meant to be. But I do know for a fact that he will regret it.

You know my husband's exwife cheated on him and left him for the OM and also left their 1 year old son at that time. It's been almost 8 years since they have been divorced. Well my husbands sister ran into her at a store. She told my husbands sister that she made a huge mistake and she wished she would have stayed in her marriage. She also gave her address and phone number to her incase my husband wanted to contact to. She wanted nothing to do with her son but all of a sudden she is wondering how he is doing and wants a picture of him. What she really wants though is to try to use her son as a way to get back with my husband. He is really resents her big time for what she has done to him. I hope he really takes a good look at this and realizes that even though it took her 8 years she eventually realized what she had and gave up. Also I hope he thinks about the pain she put him through and realizes he is doing the same to me.

I am so proud of myself. Last night my husband didn't get home till after 9:30 which is way late. I pictured him sitting in the parking lot close by talking to the OW since he gets free minutes after 9. He thinks I am stupid but far from it. Well I did cry a little BEFORE he got here but by the time he got here I was fine. I went to the basement to do some laundry and decided to watch a movie down there.

Of course I pick Hope Floats. Which is about a man cheating on his wife and she moves out to raise her daughter alone. I heard him come in but I thought as long as I was mad and hurt there was no use to bother him. He never even bothered to come down to see where I was or anything. I went up for a drink I saw him out of the corner of my eye watching my every move. Then I went back downstairs. After I calmed down I came up and remained pretty quiet. I did not LB once. Actually it felt good not to. All it got me was more stress and heartache. This way I didn't have to deal with the whole mess.

Later I went up to bed about five minutes later he followed. He ended up on the computer till about one in the morning. I figured let him keep doing things that will eventually bug him. Because I know it will. Earlier on in the day I had bought him a card and I saw he read it. I think with me not LBing and the card and him knowing what he did will bother him more than me saying anything. Plus during the day I sent him a email more like telling him the things I like about him and stuff. Because one of his top needs are Admiration. So I thought about it. Yesterday I put in deposits all day and not one LB. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I just hope I can continue. Last night though I did feel like packing my sons and my back and leaving. Because I just don't feel respected right now. But that subsided and I am glad I stuck it out.

SML, that is AWESOME! You are doing great. If you are feeling emotional, not sure if you'll LB or not, laying low (and producing confusion and intrigue at the same time!) is the best choice.

Yeah, I used to love the movie Hope Floats. Then, OW/former BF, dedicated a Garth Brooks love sone from that movie to H. Ug. I thought, how fitting, since the movie was about a BEST FRIEND stealing her BEST FRIEND'S H, and breaking up the FAMILY. Dumb girl. I am working on forgiveness of her, so that I don't give any more of my power to her. She does not deserve it.

Anyway, you did great. I think it is great in Plan A to meet his EN of admiration. The key to Plan A is to be the Giver. Have you read that part of the site? Each time I felt like packing up, or moving on without H, I would reread that Giver part of the site. And I got strength for one more day. And look up the lighthouse post and read that again. We all have to do what we can to make it for as long as we can.

And you know your H best. It is good you are using your head. It is kind-of like game playing, but it almost has to be. All of your natural reactions right now will just drive him away. You have to train your brain (and heart) to come at this from a different angle, and hopefully cut it off at the pass. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Keep on keeping on, girl. You are doing great.

SS

Thanks SS for your words of encouragement. I feel really good today. Yes it hurts to know they are able to talk more frequently but I am not going to let it get me down. I do have more important things to worry about. My husband came up with a baby name by himself. I am not sure if I am ok with it or not. I think weird thoughts like what if him and her was thinking of cute names and thought of the one he is giving me. The name is Aurora Grace. I haven't made up my mind about it yet.

I didn't read the giver part of the site. Where abouts do I find it? I do remember someone telling me at one time I had to be the giver and not the taker. That I had to give and not expect much in return. Just like the card I gave him last night he didn't even say anything at all. But I just reminded myself that I am the giver right now. So I am ok with it.

How are you doing ss? Are your kids ready for school????

Hi,

About your H's names for the baby as long as he is in contact with the OW, do you know her name or that of her children? Make sure he isn't giving a name he has received from the OW and her family. WS' do some crazy things.

One WS gave the OC the same name he and his W was going to give their 2nd child. Yep, this is the same WS that kicked out his W and 4 year old son out of their new custom built home and rendered them homeless for about 2 months. The BS is now divorced, the WS married the OW and is having an A with the OW previous to the one he married and the nightmare goes on.

Just thought I share this exp to let you see what some WS' are capable of.

L.

The OW is single and has no kids. She does know I am pregnant and I am sure he told her we are expecting a girl. So I just don't know if he thought of the name or if they tought of the name. And that bugs me. Of course it may be just me being paranoid again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

U have a great opportunity to throw a wrench into the A.

Here's my suggestion: Tell him thanks for the name suggestion but knowing that he is still in contact with the OW makes you squirmy about using the names he suggested. Tell others about his name suggestion and tell them why you don't want that name. Even if he reassures you that the names given have nothing t/d with the OW. Keep assuming that it does. Very weird how a WS comes up with a baby's name.

Even if the name is of a relative or family friend you both know, just play squirmy about it.

why? This will let him know that his input while he is in the A can not be trusted. Oh yea, this is a trust issue thingy. When it comes to this kind of stuff, guys will give away the farm if the OW pushes hard enough. Assume that he and the OW have been working on names....another crazy thing they do in the fog. They use this as a means to create history, give the A & OW creditability and keep the fog going. I am sure you do not want any part of that.

L.

SML, good points from Orchid about the baby names. Ug. It is so sad, but unfortunately, probably true. The WS's do work their tales off trying to give validation to OP, the A, to validate their own feelings - because they know what they are doing is WRONG, but they cannot stop themselves. Like an addict.

OK, at the top of the page, under the big Marriage Builders logo, it says Concepts. Click there. Then, on the left-hand side of the page, in a vertical line down, you will see Giver And Taker. I suggest you read ALL of this site. I found it to give me a LOT of hope on my hopeless days, and a lot of information when I felt like I was powerless over my own life.

You are doing great. Let me know what you think about parts of the site that really grab you and ring true to you. I am interested in your opinion.

SS