I am about ready to go into Plan B, but I have a question regarding financial support.

Here is my sitch: I am the breadwinner for the family--no kids. WH is able to work, but retired early because I made enough salary to support both of us. He has a collectible business, but the income is irregular. Virtually all of the liquid assets are in my name so he has no savings or regular income.
I will probably ask him to move out. He is going to be really shocked, angry and probably relieved so he can pursue A--he gives me the "I want to be alone" line, but has not moved out, stopped C or agree to recovery plan.

Question: Should I provide him with a monthly support or is that his problem? If I am suppose to provide him with support--what are the guidelines? Just enough for rent? Supplement for food so he doesn't starve? If I don't provide him with rent, will he move in with OW?
In the SSA book, it suggest to not provide financial support, but how does the WS live?

Any help or suggestions from all of you wise MB'ers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks and god bless.

<small>[ August 28, 2004, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: SureSurvivor ]</small>

He needs to feel the consquences of the A. Otherwise you w/b enabling the A and meeting his need (financially at the very least).

The down side is if you are in a state where adultery is not a reason for D or you are in a community property state (ie: California), then by law your higher income level may be garnished and given to him as alimony. How long have you been married? Your retirement/401k, etc. c/b also half his.

Right now LL is dealing with this same issue. Either way, do you need him in your home while he is blantantly having an A?

My WS left on his own (great plans he and OW had), that lasted less than 5 months. He ate up what little $$ he had and got sick. Later when he broke his agreement (NC), I kicked him out. Legally I didnot have that right since his name is on the rental agreement. But since I had the higher income and paid all the bills, even the landlord and the police would have had a hard time throwing me out. I did not tell the WS he had the right to live in the house over me. NOt right away. When he got billigerent, I offered to move out but he was then responsible for all the household bills. I could pay for an apt for myself and my son but the WS could not pay for the home and the associated utilities. He knew that and I used that trumph card in my favor. At that point, I didn't care where his anger took him as long as it was away from our family. When he got angry, I kicked him out. When I found contact, I kicked him out. It happened soo much I thought his butt had my foot imprinted. LOL!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Check with your legal counsel.

L.

Orchid,

Thanks for your reply. I am torn about the financial issue because I want him to feel the consequences, but I don't want him to starve--classic enabler!!!

I have checked with legal counsel after I read some of your other postings. Thank you for that. We are in CA so community property would apply. The funny thing is that we have been married for only 6 years so alimony is usually not awarded in M less than 10--although we have been together for 21. If we D, he could make a case for a "Marvin" type support. But I don't want to get ahead of myself--still hoping Plan B will bring him to his senses. Then again, maybe he will be too stubborn or proud to return--I guess I will find out.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts.

Bumping to get some more thoughts.

SS,

Redhat is also in CA (bay area) up near me and he went through the D. There are several more MBers up here who have had similar experience plus a few more in the So Cal area.

If you want, we can hail them up to give you support, ok? Let me know. My addy: mborchid2@yahoo.com

NOTE: I will be leaving this area this month but can put you in contact with the ones I have met, if you want.

take care,
L.

Survivor,

The longer that I am on these forums the more I believe in the core principals. I am a southern Ca guy that has completely cut off my WW money flow that she used to get from me. Read my thread WW is Broke.

Be prepared for the psychological consequences, especially if you are an enabler. It appears most of us here fall at least somewhat into the enabler category.

Reread Orchid's post, she has the experience and IMHO seldom gives advice that I would argue with.

SS, I am glad to see you are being proactive for yourself. I cannot tell you the difference it made for me when I found out my legal and financial standing. Just looking at that scary animal in the face took away so much of my fear. I believe my FWH saw that shift in me, because it was shortly after my attorney visit that he started coming around.

Knowledge is power. Hopefully, you won't have to use any of it, as in my case. But if you do, you know! Did you get that book yet? Huh? Huh? Huh?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> another SS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

SS

For what possible reason would you feel obligated to support him financially?

Look at the facts..WS is an adult [all evidence to the contrary]..WS is making a choice to abandon the marriage how he lives is not your concern. He is not your child nor your pet, he is an independent adult capable of providing for himself, he won't like it..it won't be pleasant...so what? It is reality. Why do you feel obligated to shelter him from the reality of his decisions..as long as you are willing to do this, he will never have the opportunity to fully embrace the fruits of having made good decisions..you aren't doing him any favors. I'm going to be a little hard on you here just for a moment. You do realize that enablers get a payoff..right? Secretly you know that he will not allow himself to starve to death..but your financial support is a tie that binds him to you...makes him vulnerable..right? Remove that and what do you have left? You have someone who may really choose to abandon you if you rock the boat, and that is scary. The unfortunate alternative though..is that he continues to use you while making a mockery of your marriage in comfort and style. Not better from where I'm standing.

If he chooses to walk away..he goes on his own. Not rent..not food..nothing. Let her foot his bills if she is willing [ha ha ha ha ha] watch the affair lose it's luster in the harsh light of day..no longer playmates but cellmates assuming that she is even willing to share her cell. If he goes to her for help, and she turns him out to sleep under a bridge...well, so much for the violins, right? There is a reason and a sound logic for what is done in plan "B"..don't try to wiggle around the uncomfortable parts..your WS will be doing enough of that for both of you. Besides..if you aren't having contact with him..he won't have the opportunity to complain about his circumstances. When and if he is ready to commit to the marriage on your terms..he will again have access to the fruits of your marriage, not before. Good luck--Noodle

Noodle,

" never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions"

Great line. I would like to put it up on my wall of quotes if you don't mind.

Thanks everyone for your input. I am a classic rescuer for panic aggressives....been protecting him all our M. Not sure what it gains me. I am having a tough time with this so your comments help. All the cardio, counseling, friends, family and hope does not help to ease the pain, but I will try to be strong. Thanks to all for your insight.

<small>[ August 10, 2004, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: SureSurvivor ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Cymanca:
<strong> Noodle,

" never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions"

Great line. I would like to put it up on my wall of quotes if you don't mind. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is a great line. Thanks Noodle.

SS,
Since you are the classic giver, it may behoove you to read Dr Harley's book: Giver/Taker. Another MB classic.

It was hard for me to see my WS sleep in his truck for days on end. Still the A raged on. The stupidity had to be worked out of his system like a bad virus bug. That is why the A appears to have changed our spouses into some alien type being. The images from the MIB movie comes to mind. Scary but true. I even told the WS that. LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

For him to heal, you may have to let him go and let him take himself where he does. This is critical to him seeing his own destructive ways. That also allows you time to heal internally and get stronger. It may appear for a while that he is doing better without you. If he is more of a taker, in time the OW will find out even he is too much for her. In some cases, when the giver lets go, they find the taker has been too much of a burden and it is better to let go. In other cases (such as mine), the taker learned his lesson and he is improving. In our case each time he went out, the stakes to return went up and up.

Hope this helps.
L

Thanks to all for your support and comments.

To Spider: I ordered the book, but it has not arrived yet. Guess I will have alot of time to read it soon.

To Cymanca: it was actually your thread that got me to thinking about asking about this so thanks for your thread and comment.

To Orchid: thanks for your insight. I am having a tough time, but can see how I hurt myself and build resentment from WH by helping too much.

I am trying to get strong and stay strong to take the next steps. I am feeling more settled with the idea. I'll be sad, but I will carry on.

Thanks to all and God help us all in struggle. May he bring us peace.

As an update, I had the Plan B talk today. WH did not say anything as I told him how C was hurting me and I told him we should separate. He asked when this should happen, I told he should make plans to move as soon as possible. He said, why should he move because you were the one who had the A. He asked if I took care of the financial matters (he wanted his name added to the accounts after d-day and I never took care of that because I did not feel safe--imagine that?!) I told him, no. He asked when would I take care of that. I said I don't know.

So you advice was correct--he is not my child or pet. He is an adult and I will not insulate him from the reality of his choices--no enabling here. Thanks again for your sage advice.

<small>[ August 26, 2004, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: SureSurvivor ]</small>

SureSurvivor,

Great to hear you are following some of the posters advice. Be aware that WS's can be very confusing when put into pressure situations like discussions on finances. Save yourself some headaches and be very clear ( black or white, not gray)in your answers. Don't say " I will get to that sometime" better to say " that is not my responsibility so I will not do that" if that is what you mean. Think of possible scenarios with WS and practice your answers so you will not get caught by surprise.

In my instance WW emailed and said she was broke and needed money. I emailed back that I had forwarded her request to the OM email address.

He said, why should he move because you were the ones who had the A.
Who had the affair, him or you?

Today I went to Plan B. WH took the news very calmly. He asked very few questions, but the one he asked several times about financial support. He was pleasant all day and tonight he stated that we have several things to settle--I said like what. He said, well what about finances. I said what is there to settle. He said that he needs money to move out. I said, you have a source of income. He said it isn't regular and he can't work????!!! He is able-bodied, why? He said the most important thing to him is money. He laid a guilt trip on me by saying if I had settled the money issue, he would never have had an A. I answered by saying the most important thing to me was that I am hurting. That I took vows to honor and cherish for better or worst and I am hurt now by his contact. Then he made a veiled threat--he said "he will have to do what he will have to do." I said ok.

The financial pressure is already starting. His little cocoon that I the able-enabler made for him is unraveling, and he has not figured out how to fend for himself. He wanted freedom so much, but is not willing to take the responsibility that comes with it.

He leaves on Tuesday for an overseas trip and in five days I get a breather and start going dark. This should be interesting.

<small>[ August 28, 2004, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: SureSurvivor ]</small>

WH leaves on Tuesday for overseas trip. Although I gave him Plan B letter on Thursday--he thought he was going to come home after trip and we would be able to talk. I said no, and he said, "what did I miss in the letter?" He read it, but did not understand that I am going dark. He said, "don't you want to know where I am or when I get back?" I said, "I only want to hear from you if you can work with the conditions of the letter."

Then he started to panic and he asked when I would settle our financial issues. I said what do you want and he said access to all the money. I said that is not an option right now. He threatened legal action and told me I should think about it. The veiled threat will soon turn into an angry outburst. WH left for the store and left saying in a parental type tone, "think about what you will do."

In all of his fog, he has not expressed any concern over my hurting or him still having contact. In fact, today he had out in plain view his second cell phone that he uses for OW. I wanted to steal it and smash it with a hammer. Oh well, someone stole it.

I do not want to enable and will try to remain strong in my convictions not to enable this A...no matter how much he threatens.

<small>[ August 28, 2004, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: SureSurvivor ]</small>

He came back from store and sure enough--he has up'd the ante. He says that I am leaving him with no choice that he will pursue legal action. I told him that "I am hurting" and he says that he is hurting too. I said, "yes, that is why we need a different plan". He said he was still making up his mind, and I said, "yes, while you are making up your mind, you should not hurt me". He finally said he was sorry. Big deal, all these months and now he sorry and still threatens me with legal action.

It did not work this way in SSA. I am trying not to knuckle under to his threats...he has been nice, but now he is going to play the angry card. I guess he will play all the cards to get his way. I don't want to enable him in his A.

Anyone have any ideas on how to handle?

<small>[ August 28, 2004, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: SureSurvivor ]</small>

Stay strong, SS.

My parents were divorced in CA and basically spent a third of all the assets they had fighting over things like who got the baby pictures. I realize that you're going to plan B to avoid D, but some of their lessons might apply to you.

How much lawyering is he going to be able to purchase without a regular income?

Will a lawyer take on this case since it's not even at the D stage?

How much of your joint assets is he willing to let the two of you burn through on a quest for palimony? I ain't a lawyer and you definitely need to check with one, but my understanding from my parents' situation is that community property will only get him half of what you've built up during the marriage and that may not be enough to support him and his little friend in the lifestyle they've become accustomed to.

Finally, even if he finds the bucks to get a lawyer, finds a lawyer to take the case and begins proceedings, you and your lawyer can still stall for weeks or months, letting the reality of Plan B and the notion of taking personal responsability for his actions to sink in . . . and that suits your situation and goals just fine.

Meet with a lawyer on Monday and good luck dealing with your fogged out, not very grown-up or responsible WH.

Perdida,

Thanks so much for your posting. It was very helpful and got me back to a calm space. I had the first few days worked out in my head and WH starts with his rapid fire defense and attack--which keeps me off balance. Your posting helped to ground me again so thank you.

WH is playing all the cards as he realizes what Plan B really means--no financial support and no contact with me. He is bringing up every topic past and present as he tries to figure out how to deal with this situation. They have one common theme--somehow I am to blame for all of this mess. He went as far as mocking the MB board and how he didn't think much of it. That is when I felt really sorry for him because at least people here are trying to help themselves instead of doing the same thing and being unhappy--like WH. Fog talk--I hate it.

I did get him to agree to MC--hope he is serious and not just conflict avoiding. Anyway thanks, and have a good weekend.

<small>[ August 29, 2004, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: SureSurvivor ]</small>