First I would like to personally say a BIG THANKYOU to everyone here. I have been coming to this site for 4 months almost daily & have learnt so much. My story is like yours, I have been affected by infidelity & of course never thought it could happen to me. My H of 27 years was o/s on a business trip last November 03. My G/F & her H were also away on a holiday (different places). She had asked me to feed her animals for 1 day as she had her MIL doing it the other days. Now I had been suspicous for over 12 months & had even asked my H about it as others had noticed how friendly they were, but H put it down to the fact that she liked to drink & always had way too much. Anyway, the day that I went over to her home to feed her animals, I had a strong urge to go to her bedroom. Once there I opened her top drawer next to her bed & there was her diary. Yes, I know this is bad, but I read it & it was all about her PA with my H. I was sure that I was having a heart attack. My heart was pounding in my chest, my hands were shaking, my eyes were glazed over & lots of tears & an enormous pain developed all over. I somehow fed her pets & drove home. I had intended to ring my H & blast him, but when I got home there was a rep to see me (we work from home). Isn't it amazing how you can fool people? I talked to him quite easily even though I was in a state of shock. Anyway, after he left I drove back to G/F's house & took the diary & photo copied it, then took it back the next day & replaced it. Fast forward a week & it is G/F b'day & they are having a big party. I did attend, but only stayed a short while as I was suffering with V&D which is normal after this kind of discovery. I asked her to come over to my place for coffee a few days later & told her that I had read her diary. I was just so calm about it. She was a mess & had to leave. I followed her home & had a big chat with her, all so calmly. My H was due home to following day, I picked him up from the airport & drove to a beach where he had breakfast (I was not eating at this stage). I then asked him that I wanted to talk about us & where did he think we were heading?"He said that we would be travelling & have some fun etc. I just looked at him & then gave him the 1st page of the diary. He got very quiet as he read it. My heart was thumping so loudly. Then it's as if someone flicked a switch on him. He has become the most attentive husband. Has hardly left my side, always wants me to go with him where ever he goes even if it's just to get petrol. We have had some big discussions & lots of tears, but he has promised me that it will never happen again. We had a 10day holiday at Christmas, the first time in 27yrs. We go out on weekly dates now. Then in January, H had to go O/S for 3 weeks. He arranged that I was to meet him 1 week after he left. This was mostly b/c I had interstate visitors staying & I suggested it. Anyway, I went over to G/F place the day that I was to fly out to give her son a B'day present. I asked her not to tell her H as they have 2 small children who deserve a Mum & Dad. As this is a 2nd marriage to them through an A they had together, I felt like I had to protect him from this horrible pain. I know that some of you will not approve of this, but it is not the children's fault. There has been N/C from either H or G/F since I exposed them. I think that they now see the A for what it was. She was an abused child & had told no one, but my H asked her once. Her H told her to get over it & it was my H that she turned to. I feel sorry for her, but that is no excuse. This A lasted for about 15months. First an EA for a few months. Back to her place with the present, I asked her if she knew if my H had any other A's. My gut feelings were on overtime. She told me to follow my feelings when I asked her "why are you protecting him"? Then she opened up & told me that she was one of many & proceeded to tell me all about this person that I have been living with that I didnt even know. I somehow got on the plane to go & meet him. A 14 hr trip with no sleep. When we got to the Motel, I asked him if he had seen any of his G/F's whilst he had been there. At first he denied them, but when I gave him more info, he told me all about them. I think there has been 7 over 10 years. He cried, I cried it was so hard for me then. Except for my G/F, all his A's have been long distance ones, were they were not under his nose, so it was easy for him. They all died a natural death.Some lasted a night & one lasted 3 weeks, 2 even lasted 18 months. But, he only saw them a couple of times a year, until my G/F. Our stay O/S lasted for 2 months, were H was so full of remorse, answered all my questions. It was like we were on a honeymoon. Back home however, my gut feelings are still unsure of everything that he was telling me. He was seeing a woman where we were, but he told me that when he was there in September, that he hadn't been in contact with her at all. I checked his phone bill & guess what.....he had rang her 28 times in 14 days. I was then a complete mess. Big L/B from me. My D was home & heard everything, which was not nice for her. She left with her G/F. I was in tears all day. The only way that I can describe the pain is that it feels like I have been punched through the chest & a huge hand has grabed my heart & pulled it out but forgot to cut it away from the rest of my internal organs, so they have all been ripped out with no anesethetic. It's just empty. I had a few large G/T's, then found some tablets that H had used when he had one of his many nervous breakdowns, & I took one. I am not a big drinker & hardly ever take medication, so this made me pass out. H was so worried about me & sat up with me all night, crying. My D rang me, but I cann't remember. She said that H cried to her that he was so sorry for all the hurt that he had caused me. So we try again to be happy, when I found 2 dockets for some jewellery that he had bought O/S 2 years ago. I know that it wasn't for me, but he tried to tell me that it was, but there were 2 dockets. He had bought her a gold braclet $450 worth. Again another lie, more tears. He had told me that he had never bought any of these women anything other that dinner & drinks. Now we are 9 months into this from the first discovery & I am feeling almost as bad as when I first found out. I want to cry often, but force myself not to. He is still continuing to be the model husband, has given up his so called mates that he went away with every year & they new about his lifestyle. They all cover up for each other as they all carry on this way. It's like a boys club. I don't have anything to do with them either. He has told them that I know about him & how sorry he is about it all. My S has heard him say this several times. At the moment we are not very financial. We have been through some hard times. BIL was in business with us & we split, but not before he tried to ruin us finacially, had a huge fire go through our property & lost about $400k of uninsured stuff, MIL passed away. It was me that was looking after her almost daily, whilst H & G/F were together, so things have been hard for us. I can see how each of H A's started. He has said that he never meant to hurt me & that he didn't think (understatement) that I would find out. He says that it was his A with G/F that made him wake up to himself & that they had stopped sleeping with each other before I found out. Her H is a great guy & has been a good friend to H. H feels awful for what he has done. B/c of our present financial situation, I have not been to MC but intend to as soon as we are. H has even said that he will go with me. There are some days when I love him but others when I just look at him & I don't want to be there. He doesn't want to talk about this topic anymore, says that we have to look forward, but I don't know if it's b/c he kept lying to me (says it's b/c he didn't want to keep hurting me) or that there really is something more to find out. He hasn't actually told me anything until after I've found out & told him. I guess that it all takes time as you all say, but right now it's hard for me. I have only told one G/F who lives 5 hours away. H has told all his "mates" that know & they mostly are avoiding him. I think it's b/c they are ashamed. Now that my eyes are opened I understand why our former marriage was so awful. We never had much time with each other. H was either always at work, O/S or away with his mates. I often told him that he spent more time with them than us & we did fight about the lack of time he spent with us. H also picked fights with me & I could never understand it, but now I do.He now said after reading HN/HN that he has been awful to me. I just need the off switch to stop the re runs of all these other women continuously. This must stop eventually. The upside of all this is that I now look terrific as I have lost 35lb & almost like I was when we got married. As a couple we are closer now that ever before, we make love often (he just had sex with those others)& he is meeting my needs for the first time ever. I guess I am one of the lucky ones, & should complain.I know that it is now me who keeps this alive. I hope that you are still here as this has been so long, but as I have not told anyone yet, you get the lot. I still have my fears whether he will do this again. I don't know if I call him a serial cheater or philander. He asures me that he will never get that low again. I know that I am not blameless in this story, but I don't think that I deserved this treatment. He has done the crime & I'm doing the time. Actually, I believe that H is suffering also, he just doesn't want to talk anymore. Thankyou MB for allowing me to tell you my story. There is probably alot left out, but lucky for you I will finish this for today BUT....... tomorrow is another day Ha Ha Keep Smiling Gang <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

WH 52
BS 47
DD 24
DS 22
Several PA's over 10 yrs
Working at being together forever.

Hello again. Have just re read my post with H. I meant to say that I should not complain, that I am one of the lucky ones. Sorry for confussion. Keep Smiling..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi MB family. Had a bad time today at the shopping centre, just wanted to run away. Heard that a woman we knew has ended her life. I know that sometimes I feel like just going to sleep until the pain goes, but this really puts things into persective for me. I don't think I could do that now, seeing the devestation her family is in & not knowing why. So sad. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

WS 52
BS 48
DD 24
DS 22

H had several PA's over 10 yrs
Working at being together forever

EO,

Welcome to MB. I am sorry for your ongoing pain. I do see some major trust issues here that if left unresolved could hinder your M recovery.

Your H still has yet to come clean. Is he some sort of conflict avoider? If so, you will need to work on that 1st.

His statements about not wanting to hurt you yet he kept having As, is babble. Plain out fog babble. Most WS' have this stupid logic programmed in their brains. Mine did and now says he was stupid for even making that up. The A is addictive and after a while they have to make up lies and believe them to pacify their guilt while getting their next fix.

If you look at your story, your H got progressively bolder with the As with the last 2 being in home territory. He wanted to get caught. This is good and bad. The fact that he could not come clean shows deep seated issues.

The external problems going on around you at that time is in addition to the problem and not the cause.

Please read his needs/her needs by Dr. W. Harley. If you can save up enough for phone counseling with Steve H., that w/b good.

L.

Thankyou Orchid,
We have read Dr Harleys book. I found it by accident. I am in Australia, so I'm not sure about phone councilling. We are thinking of coming to the US in November, so I had thought of Dr Harley. I don't even know where he is. I'm sure you are right in the fact that H is a conflict avoider & that there is more about his hidden life than he is letting on. It is killing me. My gut feelings are usually spot on & he even says that. I just don't know how to get him to open up to me. Have shown him Dr Harleys Radical Honesty Policy several times, BUT I think he (as you say) has some deep seated issues that maybe he doesn't even know about. How do I get him to find them out?

BS 52
WS 48
DD 24
DS 22
H had several affairs in 10 yrs

Hi Orchid,
Had a chat with H today & he tells me that there is nothing more to tell me, I now know everything, so maybe it's all my insecurities now. If he had just told me the truth to begin with, then maybe I would be better at handling this mess, but he said that he hated seeing my pain. Wish he had thought of that 10 years ago. He said that it wasn't until his last A that he finally realised what he was doing was so stupid & that he had everything he needed right here at home. I now feel like I am second best, was good enough to bring up the children, cook, wash clean & work for him, but not good enough for his faithfulness. Sorry, just ranting. Trying to keep smiling <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BS 52
WS 48
DD 24
DS 22

H had multiple A's over 10yrs
Working at being together forevere

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> eyesopened: We have ,read Dr Harleys book. I found it by accident. I am in Australia, so I'm not sure about phone councilling. We are thinking of coming to the US in November, so I had thought of Dr Harley. I don't even know where he is. I'm sure you are right in the fact that H is a conflict avoider & that there is more about his hidden life than he is letting on. It is killing me. My gut feelings are usually spot on & he even says that. I just don't know how to get him to open up to me. Have shown him Dr Harleys Radical Honesty Policy several times, BUT I think he (as you say) has some deep seated issues that maybe he doesn't even know about. How do I get him to find them out?

BS 52
WS 48
DD 24
DS 22
H had several affairs in 10 yrs </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: A good MC can help him get the real issues on the table. If the A is just a symptom, he needs to get to the real issue or another problem or another A will surface again. Or he is a serial cheater and will do it again. Either way, left unresolved, the chances of reoccurance are great. That's MHO.

I see you want to participate in fixing him but you really can't. Why? Because we can not control our spouses. Each person controls themselves. We can be considerate and loving to our spouses but those are our own individual choices.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> eyesopened: Had a chat with H today & he tells me that there is nothing more to tell me, I now know everything, so maybe it's all my insecurities now. If he had just told me the truth to begin with, then maybe I would be better at handling this mess, but he said that he hated seeing my pain. Wish he had thought of that 10 years ago. He said that it wasn't until his last A that he finally realised what he was doing was so stupid & that he had everything he needed right here at home. I now feel like I am second best, was good enough to bring up the children, cook, wash clean & work for him, but not good enough for his faithfulness. Sorry, just ranting. Trying to keep smiling <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BS 52
WS 48
DD 24
DS 22

H had multiple A's over 10yrs
Working at being together forevere </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: R U convinced of what he is saying? Better yet, is he convinced of what he is saying? I would probably start there, ask him if he believes or would buy what he is saying. Watch his response and it can serve as a gauge if he is just trying to get you to placate him.

The trust factor is not his to give. He needs to earn back YOUR trust not visa versa.

There maybe other issues for you to work on but you don't sound like you feel safe. You feel vulnerable, naked and exposed to hurt that you just don't want.

You need closure. Ask your H how will he help you get closure. A good MC can help there also.

As for the Harley's, they are based out of Minnesota. I believe you can e-mail them with your questions about setting up an appointment since you are out of the country.

BTW, what did you learn from His Needs/Her Needs? 2 other good books are Surviving an Affair and Giver/Taker.

Recovery is generally 2 - 3 times longer than the A. Your H needs to realize that if he does not help you with the M recovery, he is setting the M up to fail.

ex: Like a broken arm that is set in a sling without a splint. It was bandaged, but it did not heal correctly. Why? Because only part of the treatment was provided. The splint or cast was not installed. Same with a recovery where the BS is told just to move forward without help from the WS.

My WS learned that he needed to reassure me of his commitment to the family. Each time the A was identified, I went to plan B and kicked him out. His return requirements went up not down.
Hm..... something for your WS to think about, eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope this helps.
L.

Orchid, Thankyou for taking the time to talk to me. I feel that H was very sincere today. He held me in his arms (I was crying) & told me again that he will NEVER do this again & that he was in a bad place, but now his eyes are opened. He has changed heaps. Even my S's G/F has noticed the change in him. Before the children found out, they also could see their Dads attitude to me had changed. We both read His Needs/ Her Needs & have been trying to live to the new "bible". He is so attentive to me now. I understand your concern as to whether he will recomit to his former life & I agree that we will have to have some MC. He is working on a huge project at the moment for a very important client, so he really needs to concentrate on it, so I am giving him his space to complete the work. When he has finished, we are going away for a couple of days & I'm looking forward to it. I asked him to write to me about where he was & what was going on in his life at the time & he has agreed to do it. I think this is a positve step. What do you think? Keep Smiling <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BS 52
WS 48
DD 24
DS 22
H had multiple A's over 10yrs
Working at staying together forever

Orchid. You said that it was a good & bad thing that H wanted to get caught. What is it that you mean by this. I'm confused <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

WH 52
BS 48
DD 24
DS 22

H had several A's over 10 yrs
Working at staying together forever