roman,

i've been here. just too down to post.

i looked up the verse you suggested. i am at a really low point right now. it does nothing for me. you say a relationship with God requires no risk. i disagree. last night as i was reading a chapter on trusting in God, i realized i have no trust in God either. none of His words feel like they relate to me. i feel so lost and alone.

i'm having a really hard time of it right now. i am at work, but can't seem to stop crying. i am causing so much damage to my marriage right now. i've been in a depressed state more than not these past two weeks. my H told me this morning he feels like i am just trying to manipulate him. i understand what he means. it is certainly true that when i was scratching my arm like that i was thinking now maybe he will understand how much pain i am in. is that manipulation or crying out for help. either way, all it accomplishes is more distance between us.

and now i am off to IC. i feel too beat down right now to have any IC but i am going to go just the same. why am i so unfixable roman?? i know somewhere in me is a happy person, as days go by it is harder and harder to remember her.

Hey, FL, glad you're going to IC despite the fact that it's not always pleasant and sometimes downright painful. You have a lot to sort out. Fixes aren't instantaneous or easy, but they are possible. Patience, perseverence...doing what you know is best in the face of your emotional turmoil...these are things that will help you reach your goal. One thing I've learned recently is that I really don't have control of my marriage per se. When I make changes, it affects my husband and it affects my marriage, but I can't do more than that. I encourage you to keep working on getting healthier because in the long run that's best for you, your children, and your husband.

<small>[ August 11, 2004, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: DeNovo ]</small>

FL,
You want to know somthing? One of the things I found out through this circumstance is that I did not trust God either. I found out how far away from Him I was and that I was not seeking Him. As I worked through the pain of this situation, God taught me how to trust Him. He taught me how much I needed Him when before I did not think I needed Him at all. That low point occured in April of 2003. That was 18 months after I knew something was wrong in my M. My M was in pieces and I had no where to go...except God. The last couple of months have been great. Not b/c my m is healing, but because my R with God is so very close. Like any R, it take time and effort. He has taught me that I can trust Him and that he is faithful. He has also taught me that I am to be patient and wait on Him. He allowed the thorn in my life and now I am seeing why.

You are at the beginning stage of this journey. It won't happen quickly. Look how long it has taken me to get to this point. When I realized I did not control my life or that I could not fix my M, I finally went to God. That took 18 months of trying to do things my way. Talk about a hard head!!! Keep choosing God's way. Keep seeking Him and His will for you. Turn your life and your M over to Him. Just keep hanging in there and don't give up. He will provide both the the strength and the comfort to get through it.

Christ's Love,
Roman

Hi DeNovo, you seem to always pop up and post to me when i am feeling so low. thanks. i know so little of you. it sounds like you post elsewhere in more detail and do more reading than anything here. i have to tell you, i always thought you were a guy!!! you slipped up and left a clue when you mentioned your husband <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> i have appreciated all the times you have offered me encouragement. i'm glad i went to IC today. even though it was so hard. it helped some but i still feel like i have no answers. she wishes H was more capable/willing to connect more with me. she thinks it would do us both a lot of good.

she stongly suggests that i find another person to turn to when i am feeling very low so that i stop putting pressure on my H and so i stop wanting to hurt myself. i need to find healthy ways of coping with sad feelings.

i told her about this board. i told her i want to learn to really lean on God. she believes my need for human comfort is so great right now that i should try to find a friend with whom i can reach out to too, perhaps as a prayer partner. and to let God work thru this person. i feel a little better than i did this morning, i just hope it does not go out the window once i get home.

Roman, I know i need God. but i still don't think i trust in His love. I believe in Him, I believe He created us, maybe the point is I am not fully believing in Jesus Christ, not to the extent that i need to. because if i did i would have to acknowledge that God sent us Jesus to show us how much He loves all of us and therefore loves me too. instead i feel like an outsider, the forgotten one. and yet i know i have been very blessed in my life in so many ways. i realize those two thoughts contradict each other and yet i still struggle with feeling His love.

you are right, i am certainly in a much better place than i was last year in respects to my actions. i know this concept doesn't go far in my H's eyes but I am proud of myself for the work i have done to straighten out my life so far. IC told me i have probably been clinically depressed for many years, since Dad got sick (she suggests i make appt with Dr for check up and get on meds...) she believes the A was my way of medicating myself (the MC we were seeing before said the same thing). So now that i have stopped that form of medication, i am experiencing stronger bouts of depression and i need to find a healthier way to cope with it (ones that do not bring harm to myself/my marriage)

ok, that last stmt prompted me to get an appt, i am scheduled for next tues 4pm. i just asked for a basic physical, to have my thyroid checked (i have an enlarged thyroid although my hormone levels have been historically fine) and i told reciptionist about how i have been having an irregular heart beat (mostly happens when i lay on my left side). i didn't mention wanting to talk about getting ADs, i'll do that when i am there though. i wish i knew the Dr. the one i always take my kids to is a male and i'm not really comfortable with him for this appt. so i just asked for the female Dr in the practice.

roman, i cannot tell you how much i appreciate you sharing your testomony with me. i hope i will find my way.

so my plan is to spend 30 min a day reading/praying and working on my faith. If you are serious about being willing to discuss it as i go along, i would like to take you up on that. my first question is, did you do the memorization work? i'm just curious. i will start a topic called Breaking Free. maybe there will be others that will want to join in. i have toyed with this idea in the past and then i chicken out. i don't know why.

thanks for being out there.

{{{{{{{FinallyLearning}}}}}}}}}

You are not "unfixable!" You wrote: "i feel like an outsider, the forgotten one." The "outsiders" and "forgotten ones" were who Jesus hung out with! When others questioned his behavior, he said, "Healthy people don't need a doctor, sick people do." Matthew 9:11-12.

Keep seeing your therapist and doctors, taking any meds if necessary, praying, reading, posting. Hang on.

God bless,

Rose55

thanks rose, thank you so much for that post. i am truely blessed to have found this board. i don't know what else to say. thank you.

FL: How you doin', night owlette? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm so glad to hear you went and spoke with IC. Even more so, I'm so glad you are taking steps to better yourself and eventually your marriage. Baby steps! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

About God...yeah, I too "forgot" He was there for several years. He is *ALWAYS* there! Even when I was "gone". I almost don't consider it trust; if anything He trusts me! What I mean byt that is, even though for years I took Him (and everyone else in my life) for granted, He was still there. And He will be back when you are ready. (Although, *HE is ready for you *ANYTIME*. Give Him your sorrow and your pain. No questions asked!)

I know once you start realizing *you* are a good person, You will again open up to Him.

Anyhoo, glad to see you posted and left a message to see how things went today.

Remember: Baby steps and kepp your head up!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

FL, not trying to be mysterious, but I guess it must seem that way because I haven't really shared much about myself here. Yours was one of the first stories I read when I found this site and was considering posting. This place is a bit too unpredictable for my personal comfort level, and I ended up seeking help elsewhere, but I still read here sometimes. I admire your bravery and the openess with which you confont your issues, and I understand how painful this infidelity problem is. In terms of advice I don't have much to offer, but I do believe that facing hard truths about ourselves and making personal changes is the most effective way to make a positive difference in the lives of those around us. You're doing that. Your husband will respond or he won't. His choice. Either way, you're in a better postion to deal if you're healthy and strong.

FL: I am sorry to hear you are struggling so much, and that your H has not responded as you would like. Perhaps this is just making excuses for him, but I'm guessing he is enotionally worn out and does not believe he can really make a difference. Also, one of the hardest things for me to do as a BS was to understand my WW's pain.

I'll keep praying for you.

It seems to me that ALL sin is based on us thinking we know better than God what is good for us, which is a way of expressing a lack of trust in Him. So, going through your past failures may be a good way to lose the pride whihc prompts us to think or feel we know better than God, but it can also be an unbearable burden to be constantly reminded of our own failure. Is your IC a Christian? Does she understand God's forgiveness as a cure for our sins/failures? Once you repent, (and it is true you have to look at past sins to do that) God does not bring our sins before us any more. Only Satan the Accuser does.

My wife really taught me much about accepting God's forgiveness and moving on. She pointed out that if we do not accept his forgiveness, we still feel like the sinner that we were. If we feel like a sinner, we are much more likely to continue sinning. If she continued to dwell on her failures as a wife, she would feel like a failure as a wife, and she would not feel she was capable of acting like a good wife. Until she accepted God's forgiveness for her failures, she couldn't move on and change and grow to be the person He wants her to be. It actually irritated me that she seemed able to move on so easily (hah! - it wasn't really easy at all), because I was stuck for a long time in a rut where I continued to flagellate myself for my failures as a husband, and I couldn't understand how she could "get over it" so quickly, since her sins had been so much worse, IMO. It wasn't until I accepted that I was forgiven that I was able to move on in our marriage. It was hard for me to accept that forgiveness because I didn't deserve it. But, that is the nature of forgiveness, isn't it?

Sorry, I'm rambling...

Time to pray and sleep.

FL,
Thanks for the question. I did not do the memorization. I am pretty familiar with most of the scripture she used. I do highly recommend that you follw her instructions. My plan was to cut through the book and then go back and study it. I will begin to study the book in-depth and memorize the verses when school begins.

I also got a copy of Beth's latest book from her web site. It might help both of us to be accountable to each other to do the memorization. I read in Beth's new book that we need both faith and the word to fight temptation. When we memorize scripture,, we are better equipped to fight the battle. Also, if we lack faith, we will stuggle. Breaking Free will enhance your faith.

I can actually start the memorization next week. I know it helps b/c I memorized Psalm 23 and I can tell you it was a great help when I was really struggling. I'll check in later,
Roman

Somehow this post was lost.... luckily i was able to bring it back this time.

--------------------------------------------

Hi LINY, I was NOT an owlette last night. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Went to bed with H and stayed there. today is a much better day. I'm really glad i went to IC yesterday. I'm going to post more in a new thread.

DeNovo, I know this place can be unpredictable at times. I guess knowing that helps me see past it. I am glad you were able to find help in another way. i am always amazed at how much we touch each other by posting our stories here. i appreciate your encouragement very much. it really does help me continue down the path. thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

john, i think you are right about my H being emotionally worn out. especially since he is not a person that is comfortable dealing with emotions in the first place. how he ended up marrying a person like me (a volacano of emotions, and i am italian to boot!) i'll never understand!

when i said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> i just am losing sight as to how reviewing my lifetime of poor choices and bad experiences are supposed to get me anywhere in the end. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did not mean to imply my counsoler is putting it that way. I am doing that. And that is not the right attitude to have. reviewing past poor choices is being done to help me understand why i choose what i choose in order to correct my thinking. reviewing bad experiences from the past is to help me grieve the childhood hurts i need to grieve in order to free my inner child from constantly hurting. I stuffed everything really tight back then but the end result is that i feel hurt/rejection/neglect too quickly now and at inappropriate times and it hampers my ability to be rational and a healthy partner. my counsoler is a christian. i specifically looked for that when choosing her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She pointed out that if we do not accept his forgiveness, we still feel like the sinner that we were. If we feel like a sinner, we are much more likely to continue sinning. If she continued to dwell on her failures as a wife, she would feel like a failure as a wife, and she would not feel she was capable of acting like a good wife. Until she accepted God's forgiveness for her failures, she couldn't move on and change and grow to be the person He wants her to be. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">wow. that is good stuff there. your W is very smart. I think I am going to have to read that a few times (a day). thanks for sharing and for your continued prayers.

Hi Roman,

I did not do any memorizing at first. i found myself wanting to hurry through the book too fast (cut thru the book as you put it). But I will now go back to the beginning and do the memorizing too. I will also slow down my reading to allow myself time to digest what i am reading, take notes and reflect. I think sharing thoughts on each chapter here will help us both slow down a bit and therefore get the most benefit.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> he is not a person that is comfortable dealing with emotions in the first place. how he ended up marrying a person like me (a volacano of emotions, and i am italian to boot!) i'll never understand! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because God matches us with people with different strengths than our own, so that together we are stronger than either would be by themselves, and so that we can learn from each other (notice I did not say "teach" each other).