So my WW agreed on D-day to 'give our marriage a try' and has nad no physical contact with OM since then, although I suspect a phone call on Monday.

I am trying to adhere to plan A - no LBs, EN meeting etc.

Trouble is, my WW is having a terrible time, missing OM, pushing me away, generally having a miserable time - maybe as miserable as I am.

She doesn't believe she can withdraw from th e'love' she has for him. She can't be told about MB principles right now as she is so foggy.

She wants to meet OM at a tournament on 22nd August and I gues she will crave that as the first 'nice' thing thats happened to her in weeks.

How does plan A work in this case ? Must I really just wait until she makes a conscious decsion to actively work at our M ? Ijust don't see how it works. look at it from WW perspective. Her life is in the toilet and she doesn't even have the hope I do of de-fogging. Will that just happen anyway ?

Advice greatefully received. Thanks.

Dear Bob,

Are you still taking your anti-depressants? Are they helping you? You need them now my dear, to get you through this. And I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be drinking when you're taking them.
Please talk to your doctor about this all.

Please gently but firmly kick you own butt my dear! Tell yourself hey.. I'm also a father. I have my responsibilities. There is more in life for me, more good things are in store, even if I cannot feel that now, even if I cannot imagine that now.

In your case I would think of my partner as a love-struck teenager who "can't see her boyfriend anymore". Everyone sees this "love" as unreal, as a fantasy, except for this teenager. She feel terrible. She feels no-one understands. Well.. she doesn't even understand herself, really.

Because she's not 14 or 15. She's a full grown woman that has been "hit" by this so-called "love" and it has made her feel like an unreasonable 15-year old. But she knows she had other responsibilities, too. She knows there is love between you and her. So she's just torn inside. At times it will be easier for her to just blame the M, or maybe blame her parents for over-protecting her so she never "had a real life", blablabla. Notice the blablabla, Bob. It's just rambling; please don't take it personally.

Dear Bob, please, please, get help. Some nice counselor, a priest, a doctor, someone to talk to, someone to help you, someone who will actually see you or talk to you on the phone.

You are a valuable human being even if you don't feel that way now.
Take care my dear.

(((Bob)))

<small>[ August 11, 2004, 02:40 AM: Message edited by: brownhair ]</small>

So my WWs pain is more complex than just missing OM? Her feelings will eventually work out will they, while I just 'plan A' avoiding LBs and trying to keep healthy and positive ?

She manifests only simple coldness towards me and a yearning towards OM. The occasional pleasantness from last week has now gone also. Thats why I suspect a call to OM.

If there's deeper currents than that I guess I can try for longer.

Its hard just hanging around and 'keeping on keeping on' when it looks to the world like nothng's moving.

Thanks

Bob, just very quickly (I should be sleeping) I am unfamiliar with your very long other thread but noticed you hit a low point earlier and thought I'd check up on you. It sounds like you're doing a little better right now. Good.
Keep in mind that you are not going through anything that anyone else here hasn't in one form or another before you. Your wife had a one month affair, pretty short in my book. Mine was quite a bit longer but I bet the fog is just as thick right now for your wife as it was for me.

Forgive me if I sound callous to your grief, but basically all of us WS seem to follow the same convoluted mental process on the way to recovery. For some darn reason, it's always the same! We don't want to listen to anyone who wants to burst our bubble, we don't want too much to do with our poor betrayed spouse (too guilt producing) and we just would rather be left alone so we can daydream about our lost "love". (what a joke <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) We doggedly insist on the "wonderfulness" of the OP while ignoring the true wonderfulness and miracle of a forgiving spouse. Par for the course.

So where do you, the betrayed spouse come in? By becoming the best you, you can be. Work on those annoying old habits, keep all your Plan A notes in front of you and then expect to run in place for a while.

Marital recovery really starts when her fog lifts and she can see YOU clearly again. You want her to see that great guy she was so excited about marrying.

You are not a great guy just b/c you weren't the one to cheat, but you ARE a great guy who she chose initially to spend the rest of her life with. She just kinda forgot about "that" you for a while. You want her to see YOU again. Plan A helps that happen.

That means work on you OWN recovery, Bob. No more drunkfests, no more unattractive scenes, chronic moping and whatever else you've been doing. I wish I'd had a chance to review your threads but scince I can't, I'll hazard that since DD you've kind of indulged yourself, no? That's ok but enough is enough, time to get to work.

Hold your head up, Karate dude has nothing on you, he's such a FOOL to get involved with a married woman in the first place. Have you ever heard the expression: Screw a married woman, get screwed yourself? Something to think about when you get negative comparisons going in your mind. You get the prize even though she's not exactly acting like one right now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Yes, she's fogged at the moment, but it doesn't last, PROMISE. The guy's going to be ancient history IF there is strict no contact. Sounds like the upcoming contest should definitly be out for her, she loses that right b/c of her choice to have an affair. It's called consequences. Probably already discussed on your other thread so I'll leave it at that.

I need to get some sleep, Bob. I am infrequent on the boards these days but I do wish you well. No more scares like today ok? Even those who don't post to you or others who pull this kind of serious stuff get very upset reading it and that's not nice to do to your friends. Hang in there, do your best, and be your best. You CAN do it. KB

Bob,

Plan A is all about making yourself the absolute best that you can be for your W.... it's not about doing things in order to "get" or "make" her do something in return...

Nothing hurts more than when our WS are deeply involved with the OM... Not only is the pain almost unbearable, but with a good plan A, it feels like you're just lettin your WS and the OM get away with murder! Oh, and don't forget the feelings of humilliation and shame that go along with it as well...

I truly believe that no matter what our WS tell us, that they eventually, will come around and realize just what they've done to their M, and just how much they've hurt their BS... It took my W over 10 years, but she finally came clean with several A's that I never knew about...

So why do you think my W told me? She could have kept those A's hidden from me and I would have NEVER found out...

I think it was because I had made a commitment to our M, and started really working on myself to become the best husband and father that I could be, regardless of her past actions. My changes to make our M better only made her guilt worse, until she couldn't live with her lies any longer...

Bob, I know how much you're hurting right now. The first thing you need to do is go see your doctor today and get some help...

Once you get settled down, try to focus on the things that YOU can control. Work on becoming the best husband and father that you can be, and I think you'll start to see some changes in your wife...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Bob,

Plan A isn't about the WS, it is about you. How you are able to improve yourself. In time when your WS decides to become the xws then spouse, she will need your strength and love. In turn she will or should give you the same. It then becomes a team effort called recovery.

Until then, you work on you. Never mind where the WS takes herself. The more she contacts the (whether in mind or in spirit), the more you need to show yourself as the better one. She may not like to admit you are better than the OM but she won't have a choice when others begin to ewhhhh, aaahhh, ooohhhh over the improved U. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The point is that you will become stronger. Your mind will dwell less on harming yourself and you will begin to guard your time and energies. This is good.

When you have had it with the WS/OM thingy and you start identifying and implementing your personal boundaries, then and only then it is safe to go to plan B. Securing one's financial assets is critical prior to implementing plan B.

So where are you at?

L.

I have HONESTLY not been moping/sad etc. I have been 'plan A'ing pretty good up to last night when the wine and the cipramil mixed to unpleasant effect.

I have been attentive, doing long standing fixup jobs around teh house, been a great 'active' Dad to my kids and even joking/laughing with WW. SHE has been excellent also right up until Sunday when she gave me her first 'ILYBINILWY' speech after we ( almost) made love unexpectedly.

She has been very cold since then.

I must refocus my efforts. The strain of plan A-ing has been hard as I really am hurting almost all the time inside. I am loveless and not hopeful of recovery, as the MB plan is pretty much an academic thing to me having only read it. I ave seen only a negative change in WW after 3 fairly positive weeks, these past 3 days have been awful.

I fear I have lost her heart for ever although that is almost certainly not the case it FEELS like I have. And that is a terrible thing to feel.

I will redouble my efforts to 'plan A' like a soldier.

Without the tournaments coming up I would be far more hopeful but I cannot STOP her from going can I ?

I have explained and will re-explain how it will hurt me, her and maybe even OM without any happiness coming from it but she's insitent right now.

Maybe she knows its wrong to do it, and thats why she's extra cold to me right now ?

I would be far happier without this certain OM contact coming up. I may be forced to expose the A to her karate club which she says will be an ultimate LB. " that will be 'it' if you tell my coach".

I don't know what "it" is but it won't be pretty !

Bob,

U R missing the gist of my post. Read it again. You are putting too much expectations and ruining your own future with your negative attitude. Snap out of it man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Now I know you are grieving. Read the 5 stages of grieving link in my sig line. It will take you to a post which shows the link to the actual 5 stages grieving thread.

After you do that, go back to my post and digest it again.

What line of work are you in? Just asking to see if maybe we could give our examples to a field you are familar with would make it easier for you to grasp what we are saying.

L.

I am in stage 4 I think - depression.

So I must come to terms with my grief and , independent of my WW, try to be the husband she needs ?

I have been that person for many years with both of us being lazy with meeting each others ENs since my new job 2 years ago.

I am recovering my physical attractiveness (the infidelity diet is highly effective but not recommended ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), and helping out far more with domestic stuff. I have publicly praised and admired WW in front of friends and privately with her.

I must not try so hard - have an easier, less desperate attitude. Difficult when I am screaming inside.

Thanks Orchid. (((orchid)))

<small>[ August 11, 2004, 04:15 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

Much better Bob. You are doing more than you give yourself credit for. Now get off that pity pot and let's get cookin'. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You need to shine like a pretty penny. Admiration and reassurance maybe one of your needs, eh? Well know that the WS does not want you to shine but you do so start using that spit polish. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Go read the Books: His Needs/Her Needs and Giver/Taker both are by Dr W. Harley.

You will find how most women want to be communicated by from their spouses. You will find in the Giver/taker book how to lower your giver and bump up your taker a bit. Not now but in a while.

Don't wear yourself ragged trying to impress the Ws. Realize that's a losing battle so why waste your energy. Instead conserve and make yourself and your family stronger.

Eventually you w/b leaving the Ws and OM in the dust. She will wonder what happened but it was a gradual change. By then you could have an entirely diffrent outlook on her. Time will tell. Just make best use of your time.

take care,
L.

Y'know Orchid I think that what I need to be is more like a better version of what I WAS before I took my most recent new job. We were so in love in those days - a real marriage partnership.

I have been so focussed on my job that I have forgotten to spend time being 'me'. This has scared me that I must become something strange: I really don't think I need to be a thing that is alien to me, I just need to be the loving, attentive, attractive spouse I was and the playful, indulgent father I am when I put my kids before my work ALL THE TIME.

And also work on meeting other ENs of my WW that I have not actively met before.

Hard to concentrate on this when I am panicking inside but I see that I must release my fear over meeting OM etc. as I cannot really affect what she and OM do. The fact that my WW is still in my house, maintaining NC as well as the poor baby can manage for now ,still doing my laundry and folding them neatly, asking if I need anything from time to time all shows that even when she's trying to hate me, she can't quite do it. WW has to CHOOSE to rejoin me in rescuing our M, I can't make her.

I can see this morning that there IS hope in my situation. Mayb it took last night's horror to scare me into positivity.

Tell you what, if God answers my prayer and makes WW choose not to attend the tournament It will be a true miracle. I see only badness and pain for all parties coming from that.

Thanks again Orchid.

I see progress in your attitude.

One note of caution: Make no bets with God. Just do what you need to do.

It is good to hear your W is home taking care of the family but more is needed than folding clothes and doing chores. You can pay a housekeeper, nanny, etc. for those job functions. She is the W and mother of your family, this means her responsibilities are greater.

Have you done a background check on the OM? Whether A is over or not, it is a safe thing to do. Why? Because these As have a nasty way of surfacing again.

You are doing much better. I hear life in your posts. Keep up the good work.

G'nite.
L.

Bob, pay attention:

Being miserable around your WW is a big, big, big LB. I know you feel rotten, and you wish she would see how miserable you are and give a rat's a$$. That's what spouses do. But you know what? It ain't going to happen. And the more obvious it is to her how miserable you are, the worse. You need to buck up and quit expecting your WW to change her attitude out of guilt and pity. Of course she gave you a hug when you crashed your car. But she didn't do it because she wanted to. She thought to herself, I don't want to do this, but I'd have to be a real jerk not to at least give him a hug.

Here's the script - you need to make your home an environment where she feels as comfortable as possible during withdrawal. The #1 thing for her is to make it through that without deciding she needs to get the hell out of there before she loses it. You need to give with NO expectation of receiving anything from her. And if you pout and sulk while she's pouting and sulking, it's not going to attract her to you, guaranteed.

Wah wah, she doesn't care very much about you or your feelings right now. Pretty much all of the BS here are experiencing it. Deal with it. If she's cold to you and it makes you feel bad, don't show off how bad you feel in front of her. Take a pitch for your M and your family (sorry, baseball metaphor) and go do some chores or take a walk.

When she says things like, "I'm only here out of financial necessity," you have to let it roll off your back. You need to get a thicker skin.

Drinking, Bob? Come on. You have to be a lighthouse, not a sad, prickly, drunk lump of flesh. What woman would give you the time of day in the state you're in?

Finally, and I think you know this. Seeing or talking to OM is going to set your wife's withdrawal waaaay back. Be ready for that. Be ready for the long haul. Quit that g*ddam*ed drinking and all the bull$h*t and make yourself a strong man and make your home a comfortable, welcoming place for your WW. If you don't do this, you will probably lose her. If you do this, you might not, and either way you will re-enter normal life stronger, better, and happier.

Get it together, Bob. Be a freakin' hero.

GC

GC I know much of that. I am NOT miserable around her ( well last night when my car was broken, sure but not about the A).

I vent here and nowhere else. Its really tough but I am pretty positive around WW. We've had lots of very positive lunches where I've even been able to nod at fog talk about how 'I'd like OM if I got to know him' etc without laughing or crying <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I only got drunk the once by accident last night and I was lucky.

I just took my whole family (wife & kids) for a chinese lunch, then bowling afterwards. A very positive time had by all. Me laughing with W & kids despite screaming within every time I look at my beautiful and oh so familar wife, that now belongs, albeit hopefully temporarily, to another man.

I am really not doing as bad as you infer I don't think, though I can and will do better as I get better and stronger.

Your comment that I need to make this a welcoming place for WW is a very important one. Perhaps I'm overdoing the affection bit a little, so I need to back off. Even if she doesn't know I love her right now, she doesn't care and my love isn't going to make her feel good about being in our home environment I guess.

How else can I make our home a welcoming environment for a WW ? Any suggestions ? Thanks !

Bob, it sounds like I may have been rougher than necessary. Just wanted to make sure after last night's tailspin.

If your W becomes distant and is sitting on the couch sulking or goes to bed, do some very small nice thing for her and be done. Bring her tea and then get away. Go and do something that reveals the changes that you are trying to make in your life to be the man she needs you to be.

I'll bet she knows you love her. It doesn't seem that way, and you probably feel you need to constantly remind her. Just don't be over the top with it right now. She can't handle it - they say it just highlights what she is NOT feeling.

You haven't been laying too many "I love you"s on her, have you?

Try to find some kind of physical exercise you enjoy. It will help so so so so so much. The more strenuous the better. Trust me on this Bob. It's worth it just for the extra dopamine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Make this day better, Bob. No pathetic shadow today, right?

GC

Already better GC. Took family for a lovely chinese lunch and a bowling game ( WW won - as ususal!). A nice day. Excepot for my broken heart of course.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Advice well taken. I think I am a little too affectionate. I will back off.

Bob, just dragged myself out of bed. H asked how late I was up. Uh.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> You sound much better this morning and I'm glad. Being teachable is a very important component to living and working out your recovery and it sounds like you are.

MB may be academic to you right now but as you see little successes here and there, you will become increasingly stronger in yourself. Recovery really does start with you. You've got some great advice coming your way, take it, use it and benefit from it. Wish you the best, KB

KB thank you, thank you, thank you. I am much stronger today after my low point yesterday.

My car is booked in for repair, my prayer is being fired up anew and I am stronger than at any time since D-day. Not STRONG, but not shaking, thinking darkly or stuff. Spending good time with the kids has helped me enormously. I just took the kids and my Dog out for an hours summer walk and it was lovely.

And being away from the fog horn was nice for an hour too if I'm honest......

I love her, but I've been too much of a doormat, too much HER and not enough ME. I have to get ME strong first or theres no hope here for any of us. I've done nothing wrong here, I must stop behaving as if I have. Not arrogant or angry, just not so, well, delicate.

Its a hero's gig this BS one. We'll see if I am up for the challenge.

Edit to say - my WW was just selecting new clothes for herself from the Next directory ! ( I pay for everything).

I said 'bit of a cheek isn't it ?' Jokingly. She went very quiet, but wrote down the numbers to order anyway. She has taken me for granted for SO many years its untrue. Not sure what to do , so I said no more and I will pay for the clothes. For now, she is in my house, in my life and as NC as she can right now while her head's a mess. It would be an LB I reckon if I stopped supporting her financially. What u think ?
I must admit the fact that I paid for some expensive sexy underwear for OM to enjoy sticks in my throat. I hope one day she will agree to destroy them all and replace them. they are a trigger right now I admit.

<small>[ August 11, 2004, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

If you can afford to, maybe you could replace all that stuff TOGETHER. Shopping is kind of a big female "fix" as you probably know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> With your approval and input this could be a little marriage building outlet rather than another niggling resentment for you. If it doesn't break the bank it could be a pretty nice investment. What do you think?

Absolutely agree KB but right now they are associated with a pure and lovely time in WW life. She doesn't understand my trigger. In fog y'see.....