Has anyone had to deal with this? I found this link, and this is a big problem for me as my WW was diagnosed by our marriage counselor as passive/aggressive.

http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/papd.htm

RW: YES! (Unfortunately!) It has gotten better over the years (through IC, meds) but it's still there. The "Jekyl and Hyde Complex", I refer to it as.

How do I deal with it? I haven't. Not a good combo to have a P/A with a stuffer. But we're working on it to meet a happy medium.

If you have any particular questions, I'll do the best I can!

Well, I'll be honest, everything about her makes sense now. I'm not wandering around in complete confusion anymore.

I think the big problem I'm going to have in dealing with this is like trying to convince an alcoholic they are an alcoholic.

I think the most amazing thing is passive/aggressive's don't think they've done anything wrong. All the things I've complained about in counseling have all been symptoms of P/A.

When we first started going to counseling, we came up with an agreement to "work" on things for 6 months, then we'd sit down and WW would make a decision if she wants to stay married or not. At this point, that will be at the end of October. I've made it this far, and I know I can make it till the end of October. I think it's easier for me to accept things the way they are, knowing why things are happening the way the are happening.

Gosh, I almost pity her now. I can't imagine going through life thinking P/A.

Thanks LINY.

Check out these websites, they helped me greatly in dealing with my P/A H.

Passive Aggressive Helping Hand

The Boomerang Relationship

Checking out the links now. Thanks!

Holy ****! I think I might have this P/A thing. I do about 2/3rds of the things on here. I get angry and blow up, but then I feel a lot better. I have the controlling thing. I have the disdain for authority. I’m good at manipulating things. But, if I make a promise, I deliver on it every time. I’m also prompt to a fault. I’m never late for anything unless it was a problem out of my control, like my train being late for example. Does that qualify me as P/A? If so what do I do about it?

RW: NO PITY! Understanding and validation. (Hmmmm....sounds like a M principle!) I know that sounds like a contradiction for someone in her frame of mind; it's not. When my W thought I was "pitying" her, it made the P/A come out even more. And your analogy? To show how screwed up we were/are: she has a P/A personality (while dealing with depression after a mental breakdown); *she* was trying to convince *me* that *I* was a gambler! (BTW, she was right! Moral of the story? Don't underestimate her! With proper IC and/or meds, she *will* get this under control.)

BTW--strictly out of curiosuty (and please do *not* het insulted--it's for me to learn!) as I am a fairly new newbie, I am puzzled at why you have set a timeframe, considering there is indeed another big factor to contend to other than infedility. Was this suggested? Or was it something you and W came up with? (Albeit many other factors were involved and each scenario is obviously different (with similar components) (and I do not know your situation <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> , although I *have* seen your pic in the album! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ), my W has been in IC/meds for 3 1/2 years. Just like a person who is overweight--it doesn't take them a few days to lose the weight. Same for any mental illness/disease.)

Anyway, best wishes with, well, everything!

No1: I would suggest s/w a C. They are the "experts!"

As a side note, it was only *through* my W's C that she found this out (although the signs have *always* been there. In other words, if she wouldn't have already been going for IC for depression, we still may be wondering now what this behaviour really was. It's not something that is *easily* pinpointed unless you actually go for C.)

Best wishes! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi there,

For those you who don't know I am the W that LINY writes of <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm smiling as I read this thread ----OY!

I agree with LINY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> - or may be I don't <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
(j/k)

I have learned so much in IC. I have "tools" - mental and physical "tools" to work on this P/A behavour. It is a "changing" of mindset and yes, the need for "understanding and validation".
You can feel so *CRAZY* with your emotions swinging so drastically - extremely frusrting!! URGH!!!

But, LINY is right, IC, Meds, Kick boxing, and shopping - though shopping does not really help a Compulsive Disorder <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> (oh and an "EXTREME" sense of humor!!)

It's not easy and does require time and understanding.

PS I have read some of my H's posts - I'm really not as screwed up as it may appear - I'm doing great (3 1/2 years of IC - it has really helped <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> !!!!). LOL (I couldn't be able to handle this situation w/o the IC). LOL

Brown,

Hi. Glad to see another couple posting. My wife and I both post here.

You said something that has been a concern for both of us as well and it concerns that things our spouses post may or may not represent us too well.

Don't worry. Everyone here is mature and has been through/going through this process. We all know that there are two sides to every story and that when a spouse posts about something that it is from "their" viewpoint.

NCW

PS - I am certain I am also P/A. We can get through this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ncwalker:
Brown,

Hi. Glad to see another couple posting. My wife and I both post here.

You said something that has been a concern for both of us as well and it concerns that things our spouses post may or may not represent us too well.

Don't worry. Everyone here is mature and has been through/going through this process. We all know that there are two sides to every story and that when a spouse posts about something that it is from "their" viewpoint.

NCW

PS - I am certain I am also P/A. We can get through this. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NC! How r ya??

First, a mini-thread-jack: I know we've reponded to each other in the past, but, pardon my ignorance, I had *no* idea your S was here too! Good for the both of you. Mainly, I find it to be just another forum to communicate. How are you both doing?

See? It was real Mini!

Hope you meet this P/A head on!!!!!! (Just be patient!)

Best wishes!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LINY:
First, a mini-thread-jack: I know we've reponded to each other in the past, but, pardon my ignorance, I had *no* idea your S was here too! Good for the both of you. Mainly, I find it to be just another forum to communicate. How are you both doing?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK...DUH...I'm not thinking too clear this morning...just got some bad news...anyhoo, yes, I did realize RAP was here too.

About the P/A--your latest thread pretty much confirmed it. (Besides being human, and all! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) It's certainly something to bring up during IC. Pep gave you some pretty good advice...and with that, look into the P/A.

Best wishes!

This all started with my discovery of WW and her internet EA, which she turned into a PA over Memorial Day weekend. During the discovery, I learned there was a prior PA before this. OM1 wasn't an EA, just sex, like that makes anything better. WW and OM2 appear to have had a falling out. Don't know the details, don't know if I ever will. WW is the one who suggested counseling on D-Day.

When WW and I first started counseling, it was determined WW needed to decide whether she even wanted to stay in the marriage to work on it. With our counselor, we came up with a 6 month physical seperation with "dates". These dates were a Monday lunch date, a regular date during the week, and Sunday Family day. The physical seperation never took place because the financial strain was too great.

Our agreement ends at the end of October, at which point WW is going to have to make a formal decision to stay married and TRUELY work on the marriage, or we go our seperate ways.

The counselor and I both think the hold up with my situation is WW's P/A traits. WW does not acknowledge or accept this diagnosis even though it's frightening how much the disorder actually applies to her. This makes me wonder if I'll ever have any real closure on the hurt from this situation.

I've reached a point it doesn't matter which why this goes, I'm fine with either choice as they are both going to be equally hard for different reasons. I still love her, but have accepted the situation for what it is. I've personally not made a choice because I grew up in a broken home as did WW, and I feel I owe it to my kids to do everything I can to make sure they don't have to grow up in a broken home.

I've been doing this for 5 months now. Another 2.5 months will be a walk in the park. I think this because, I did the last 5 months in complete confusion about everything going on not understanding WW at all. After becoming more knowledgeable about P/A everything makes perfect sense, and I feel I'm better prepared to deal with the P/A traits as they rear their ugly heads.

I learned this last counseling session, the counselor came up with the physical seperation for me, I was a basketcase, and we talked about how far I've come since our first counseling. My counselor advised me if I still want to continue down this road, that she would like me to adhere to our agreement as much as possible, meaning don't ask for more time with WW other than our scheduled times, due to how P/A's view "their time".

Brown: How did you accept your diagnosis? I compare this to you can't tell an alcholic they're an alcoholic. And if she decides she wants to stay married, that's what I'll have to deal with.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by RWukovich:
WW does not acknowledge or accept this diagnosis even though it's frightening how much the disorder actually applies to her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">RW...I'm so sorry you are in this position...However, glad to see you are handling it the best you can.

While reading this, I actually was going to answer the above...then you asked brown to do it--I will not step on her toes for the answer.

However, it's with any "illness"--denial. Unfortunately, it's just that much harder for the P/A person--it's ironic and it sucks (no other way of putting it), but that is just one of the traits: "How dare you say that! I am not!"

I wish and pray the best for you, RW. (Brown *will* respond to you--not sure if it will be today, due to a change of plans we have to take care of.)

Thank you LINY, seems like everytime something happens to me, it's always a few degrees worse than average. I couldn't just have to deal with a WW, I have to deal with a P/A WW. It's very helpful to know there are other people out there that can help with this. I will get through this, I'm a better person as a direct result of this, and I'll always be better for it.

RW,

Hi, you asked how I handled my diagnosis????

I had just suffered a nervous breakdown - a reason for my behavior was so welcomed. I finally had some explanation for many years of confusion and frustration and internal pain. I was doublly diagnosed P/A and Chronic Depression. And the 2 feed one another. As the depression deepened the P/A behavior becames more frequent (Jekyl and Hyde). It got harder to suppress the Aggressive behavior and then there would long periods of the Passive behavior. The Agg time was wild and uncontrolled alot of screaming and yelling and crying. Followed by a bit of a "honeymoon" period - everyone could do no wrong (and yet inside every one was really just pissing me off). Then WAM - These mood swings were so confusing and out of control - I truly was having trouble living within my own skin. I didn't "like" myself. I had even told the H, "How can you love me, when I don't love myself?" and "maybe you should just leave me" and I even thought I should leave him and my kids. I was so difficult to live with and even be around at home (not really in social setting -then I was totally Passive and charming).

So, I was more than accepting of the diagnosis - but it took a nervous breakdown for me to accept it. I hope your W can accept and learn from it now and avoid a nervous breakdown (that's just HELL).

My family had said for years maybe I should try prozak or something ... I resisted b/c that was for "crazy" people. I thought I could handle it. Ha ha ha! I have been in recovery for depression for 3 1/2 years and I can now identify these changes in myself and I have learned to walk away or stay away if I have to.

I was A-D's on and off throughout therapy (Wellbrutrin SR, Lexapro, and XanaX) - they help to stablized my moods, anxiety and the depression. I can think cleared and everyone (the H and kids) is truly amazed at the person I am now. I hardly recognize that "other woman". I am happier and healthier - it took some time, understanding and forgiveness (from myslef and my family).

Hang in there - it takes time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Brown

<small>[ August 13, 2004, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: brown ]</small>

Brown: Thanks for responding. WW has realized some of the things in her life that are P/A, but has no idea it's P/A. Let me give you just a couple of examples.

WW actually told me there is a "Good Jenn" and a "Bad Jenn". I've also seen her post on her online journal where she talks about maybe she does sabotage her relationships. There is also a post where she comments all the gods must be laughing at her. And like you, she is passive and charming in social settings, which makes it really difficult when I get "Bad Jenn" and "Bad Jenn" tells the whole world on her online journal what an evil and horrible person I am, playing herself of as the victim in this whole situation.

I've got a thread in Just Found Out, that I've been using to document this nightmare. The link is in my sig. I know it's a little long since this has been going on for 5 months now, but I'd appreciate yours and LINY comments, help, suggestions. I can also provide a link to WW's online journal, not every post is hidden from the general public, and you may be able to see what I'm talking about.

I now know how to deal with "Bad Jenn" when she shows up, but I don't know how to get "Good Jenn" to see "Bad Jenn" for what she is.

RW: We both just read your response. We *promise* we will get to your thread sometime over the weekend! (It's gonna be a busy one, though!)
Just wanted to let you know we are not ignoring you!
Hang in there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I feel better knowing there are people to talk to about this, considering most of the people on here are dealing with what I would consider normal problems. Haven't seen very many posts that are more complicated by something like P/A.

There are a lot of people that have been very helpful. I think P/A really complicates the whole Plan A/Plan B thing due to the way P/A's think. WW will never feel any guilt or remorse about what she's done to us until she accepts being P/A and is actively trying to do something about it.

To be honest, I think that's something that won't be decided until the end of October when our agreement comes to term, and she has to make a choice. Staying in this marriage will mean she'll have to make some changes, and I'm not sure how she's going to deal with that.

RW: Hey buddy! I'm about 2/3rds of the way through your original post. I'm cutting and pasting so I can respond logically (if that's possible for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) *Just* from my perspective. (I'll let brown do her own thing from hers.)

But, I have a very important question *before* I respond: Credentials is the wrong word, but what type of counselour is the MC and IC? (What are there exact titles?) (The reason for the question is *NOT* because they've given you bad advice or anything. I'll explain to you once I get the answer, I promise!)