graycloud:
Thank you. That is exactly what I need, courage. Faith in SOMETHING. I have no faith in a higher being, no faith in myself. I am really a mess.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graycloud:
<strong> mrsx, what is it you don't know?

Your EA won't end if your H doesn't know. Or it might end and you'll just go have another one.

Your M won't survive if your H doesn't participate in recovery.

Your soul will be damaged as long as OMW doesn't know what her rotten H is doing with you. If she Ds him, that's her right.

And no matter what happens, there is no hope for a healthy R between you and OM.

But you already knew all that. I'm sure it's all a big "duh" to you. All you need now is courage.

GC </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Thank you to 2long, and committedandlovingit:

?>...why aren't you doing it???!!!


I am terrified. Terrified to give up the OM and go back to my mundane life at home. I think. I don't know if that's true but that is what I feel. I am seeing my therapist 2mrw morning at 6:30 and printing this thread. Thanks all who replied so far.

knewbetter:
you are absolutely correct in your judgement of OM. i don't blame HIM, i am the one creating and maintainig my insane, lying, despicable lifestyle. i will read that link first thing in the morning. THANK YOU.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by curious53:
:
Please believe me when I say I am not attacking you. I'm trying to better understand what's going on with you before I answer. Can you answer these questions for me?

1. How are you feeling about this situation? (guilt-ridden, ashamed, excited, confused, worried . . .) Please try not to respond "All of the above." What feeling is the strongest or most prevalent?

Strongest feeling I have is fear. That is the most prevalent. I have no self esteem, I hate myself. I look for validation from 2 men, neither of which make me particularly happy. Of the feelings you listed, ashamed. Ashamed that I treat my husband like a piece of crap, that I have no respect for him (how could I I have no respect for myself right now, I am disgusted at what a piece of garbage I am behaving like) and that I allow someone else's husband to treat me like one too. That I live this life of lies and deception and get more and more dysfunctional by the day.

2. What are you looking for from the board? (encouragement to end it, tips for making NC last, comfort, . . . )

I am looking for encouragement to end it, suggestions as to where I can begin to build my self esteem so that I can be a better human being. I need a place that I can be accountable and encouraged to for once in the past 15 months do the right thing. Support because I feel so disgusting about myself, I can't take living this way anymore and I am so scared.

Knowing those two things will help me help you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you so much curious53.

<small>[ August 12, 2004, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: lost-cause? ]</small>

Weaver, I believe it. You are so on the mark, it's amazing.
I am self-destructing now. I have been self-destructing for quite some time now, well before the A even started.
Today, I am at the point that I physically, mentally, emotionally cannot deal with it. I am acting like a lunatic, like a disgusting lying cheating sneaking piece of garbage WS and a psycho OW.
I have the most horrible thoughts about myself right now (not suicidal, just absolutely loathe myself) and the fallout is going to be huge. I am not sure I am up to it but if I don't do the right thing soon, I'm gonna end up in a hospital.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
<strong>

From what I have seen in life, with myself and others, is this is where you are heading if you don't head the advice you have been given here, and on the other board -

Because you are a nice person and you do have a conscience and are obviously in a horrible place mentally, you are going to self destruct. Both of these men will end it with you eventually, which one will be first I don't know. But both will, and then you will be faced with such complete and utter aloneness, alone with your self to deal with the horrible fallout of your selfish and self-destructive actions.

You will then be forced to rebuild your life from the bottom up, but this time it will be with strength, self forgiveness and self love. But it will take a very long time to get to this place of rebuilding, because first you will have to atone for the pain you have caused. Your self hate will be great, and you will feel you need to suffer for all you have done. And like the man in the desert, after wondering alone and suffering for years, you will raise your head to the heavens and say I have suffered enough Father, please forgive me and let me live again.

Then you will truely be able to love yourself and others.

Are you up to it? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ August 12, 2004, 07:28 AM: Message edited by: lost-cause? ]</small>

Pep, I really don't know. You're right. It's your choice if you want to make the effort to give me advice and either way you would only be extending yourself and at this point I know I don't deserve any help. I am so messed up I don't know if and why I want to save my marriage. I just can't live like this anymore. I don't want to hurt H anymore. I am absolutely at the lowest possible point I have ever been in. I hate myself and all along I question if I do love my H. How could I love him and do this to him? And I am not talking about the bulls*** "IN LOVE" crap, I am talking about honoring my vows, respecting my H, being honest with my H, being a HUMAN BEING to him. I am none of the above. I am lying to him, to his face like a piece of garbage. Yet at the same time I resent him for never being home. For me not having a normal married life.

I am not in love with OM. I don't fantasize being with him forever. He is a jerk. He is abusive to me (I ALLOW IT) he is lying to his wife. He is irrational and not at all attractive to me except as a prize that it seems I am setting out try to capture. Like a deer head I can hang over my mantle. I hate him because he is so much like me. I hate myself too.

I am not questioning my love for H. My love for H speaks volumes. Since there is none there. I don't hate him at all. I am not trying to re-write history and say he is a bad H and I was never in love with him. because I know at one time I was. And I know at one time I never would have imagined that I would stoop so low to be such a lowlife scum of the earth loser as to be in this position.

I allowed myself to get this far into it and now I am F****D. My marriage is a sham because of ME. Because of my actions. If I'm not happy with the fact that I feel neglected why didn't I just deal with it and make a choice whether or not to stay married? Why did I have to choose this route and ruin myself and destroy my marriage vows and disrespect my husband and act like a whore and allow myself to be treated like a piece of crap by OM?

I am so addicted I can't see straight. I can't function. I am at a very very low point.

I do have a strong feeling that if I tell my H that the M will end. I am scared of that because I will lose a great man (who doesn't deserve to be treated like I treat him, so he would be better off.) I also have a strong feeling that if I tell OM's W that I will also lose him. HAHA. Lose him? I don't have him now. I just have a sick psychotic bull**t "relationship" (for lack of a better word).

I have singlehandedly destroyed my M. I also have a nightmare of an A. And I am to blame. And yes, I hate myself for it because now it's time I pay the price for my actions. And honestly I don't know if I have the strength or the means to deal with the fallout.

WS's do some crazy Sh** when they are wrapped up in an A. I read some of the stories here and even I (one of the most despicable of WS's) cringe and shake my head. I don't know who I am anymore. I can't be a decent wife. H and his feelings have meant nothing to me for over a year. OM has been the focus of all my energy. And for what? So I can sit here in my house in front of the computer sick to my stomach with guilt, jealousy, fear, hatred and the ugliest feelings a person can have inside them for themself.

I really don't know where to go from here. I am totally absolutely lost.

Thank you all for taking your time to read my garbage and to reply as well.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by :

Any questions you have PLEASE don't hesitate to ask.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here's my question ... it took me a little while to compose MY question....

Please tell me (us at MB) .... Why we should care enough about your marriage to post advice to you when it appears you care very little about saving your marriage?

Why should we make an effort where you have not?

This is a real question .... I think answering it will HELP YOU come to terms with yourself.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ August 12, 2004, 07:28 AM: Message edited by: lost-cause? ]</small>

Cymanca,

THanks for your prayers, although I defintely don't need to be applauded. The only thing I can identify with in your post is the word hypocrisy. Heh. Thank you very much for your warmth towards me.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Cymanca:
<strong> ,

I applaud you for coming clean. I am a novice here so the experts will send you down the right path. Keep this new found passion alive over your hypocrisy and use it as a tool for remodeling yourself, your soul and your M.


Best of Luck. You are in my prayers </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ August 12, 2004, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: lost-cause? ]</small>

confused&scared,
I have been thinking about that alot. My H does deserve better. Even I know this. Deep inside myself I look and I see the person that I was. The person who at one time loved this man. I loved him. I never lied to him. I never thought I'd be HERE. I am hanging on to that by a thread. But in the meantime destroying what was once an honest true love. I don't know how or if I can ever be that person again. I feel so displaced from her. So far far away from her. I am now the ugliest lying piece of crap ever. I am not here to lie anymore. I am here because I hate what has become of me. I hate what I have done to my H. I hate this person I am now. I don't want to live like this anymore and I don't blame you or anyone else for doubting me. Like I lied to my H I lied to you all as well. I have no accountability whatsoever. There is no reason why you should believe me. But deep down inside myself I really want to be a better person. I want to just be able to look at myself in the mirror and not want to bash the glass into a million pieces. I can't even look at myself in the mirror. I wake up and I don't even imagine how I am going to get through the day. I am sick, obsessed and scared. I just am hanging by the thread of hope that I can stop destroying my life and other peoples lives with my lifes and deception and ugliness.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by confused&scared:
<strong> Have you considerd whether if you can't seem to give up the OM then maybe it is better to be truthful with your husband, tell him as much and give him an opportunity to get in with his own life and make some of his own decisiona. Or even just cutting your H loose as he deserves a lot better than he has gotten from you.

I followed your posts here before and I am very disappointed.

I can't understand why you would even lie to the board. What is the point of posting for help and being untruthful here. What can you gain from that.

Do you really think that things will go any differently this time. Are you posting to try again to give up OM or are you just conning yourself into thinking that by posting here and doing nothing towards giving up OM that in some way makes your affair less wrong because you are trying.

What is your aim at this time?
C&S </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ August 12, 2004, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: lost-cause? ]</small>

Hi Mrs X, I haven't had time to read it all - just wanted you to know that Lisa, Cwmac and I have often thought about you.

When you stopped e-mailing us I had a feeling what was happening, but you're back now.

Jenny

<small>[ August 11, 2004, 11:37 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

I'm sorry I lied to you Jenny. And to Cwmac & Lisa. My disappearance was the result of not being able to be honest with you. I dropeed the MB site like a bad habit didn't I? Whilst maintaining the real bad habit all the while. There was no way I could keep coming here and rationalize my A in my mind. I chose to continue the A instead, and look where I'm at. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Jenny, Thanks for welcoming me back.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KiwiJ:
<strong> Hi , I haven't had time to read it all - just wanted you to know that Lisa, Cwmac and I have often thought about you.

When you stopped e-mailing us I had a feeling what was happening, but you're back now.

Jenny </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ August 12, 2004, 07:31 AM: Message edited by: lost-cause? ]</small>

I'd read between the lines anyway.

I don't know if you've been lurking. There are some truly wonderful people on here at the moment. Just a horrible shame that we're all here for "this" reason.

Jenny

Thanks to all for your replies. I would like to be back tomorrow to read and post more.

<small>[ August 12, 2004, 07:32 AM: Message edited by: lost-cause? ]</small>

OK, mrsx. I just wanted to know where you were coming from. I’m glad you’re working with a therapist. Keep it up. I would also say that the feelings you report sound exactly like those a drug addict reports when they know their drug abuse is ruining their lives, but they’re not sure how to stop it. You are addicted to the OM. Please learn more about the addictive power of affairs. Being better informed about it will hopefully help you battle the addiction and also understand why you feel the way you do and start to heal.

Now. I’d like to lay out a potential plan for ending the addiction. I expect you to modify the plan to suit the facts of your life. But your primary focus should be on making it impossible for you to ever come into contact with OM again.

First, the prep work. This is all aimed at ensuring your accountability:
1. Write a NC letter. Nothing about how special he is or how it might have worked under other circumstances. Just a brief “I realize that my relationship with you was a mistake. I am 100% committed to rebuilding my marriage. To do that, I must have no contact with you, ever. Please do not call, visit, or email me under any circumstances. mrsx”
2. Get rid of your cell phone. Get a new one with a new number and give it to your husband. Establish a standard practice where he gives you your cell phone only when you need it for safety or another very specific purpose. Then, when you’re finished with it, he will review all the calls you’ve made or received.
3. Close your email account. Refer your friends to a joint email account you share with your husband. (I’m not sure what the control is to keep you from opening a secret account at the office – maybe someone else can suggest something.)
4. Do you and OM have contact at work? Write a letter of resignation. Tell your supervisor about the situation and that you are choosing to find another job in order to save your marriage. Ask you supervisor’s help in keeping you separate from OM until your last day at the office.
5. Contact a SYMC or MB coach. You’ll need someone to help your husband deal with this, and help you both work toward being specialists at meeting each others’ needs, making you both less vulnerable to affairs.
6. Get an accountability partner. I think SYMC can help you with that.

Once you’ve got all those things lined up, it’s time to tell your husband, so he can support you in ending this addiction. Of course, he’ll feel betrayed and hurt. Hopefully working with a coach can help him understand the nature of addiction so he can be open to helping you through this. What I suggest you do is all the things I listed above, then lay all of the following out on the table:
1. NC letter
2. new cell phone, with # and password
3. paperwork showing cancellation of old cell phone
4. paperwork showing closing of personal email account and opening of joint account (with password)
5. letter of resignation
6. contact information for marriage coach
7. paperwork showing you’ve obtained an accountability coach.

When your husband walks in, sit him down and tell him you are sorry that you’ve been lying to him, but you want to be honest with him now, and you don’t want to ever lie again. Show him all the things you are doing to ensure accountability. He may not be able to take it all in at once, so be prepared to go through the accountability more than once. Get him in touch with the marriage coach as soon as possible. Do everything the coach tells you.

Good luck.

Forgot to add:

1. Don't send the NC letter until you show it to your husband. That gives him a chance to approve it. He can also add a personal note if he wants.

2. Don't submit your resignation until you've talked to your husband. Quitting your job should be a decision you make together. In my opinion, it's the best decision if you see OM at the worksite, but your husband should always be a part of that kind of decision.

curious53,

thank you so much. i am at work right now. your suggestions are appreciated so much and i am taking everything you said all in. absorbing it, realizing you are right and i have my work cut out for me. i am going to have to find the courage to face my H with the truth.

last night i was a wreck. this morning i am just numb. reality is kicking my butt today. therapist appointment was the most honest i've had in a while. i am just taking the next few days and posting here and staying away from anything that would put me in contact with OM. I'm scared to even go there right now. For my own little bit of sanity that is left I need to not go there.

right now i think i am at the AA step one. realizing i am powerless. it's not a nice place to be but at least i see some bit of hope just by finally being honest about my lack of self-control and my total absolute addiction to the A and OM. i think i am going to try to base my attempt at recovery on the 12-steps. (mom is recovering AA - 23 years sobriety, i used to be in ala-teen and acoa years ago).

thank you.

(obviously i changed my screen name here, the other one made me nauseaus and this is more appropriate to my feelings at the moment)

Just dropping in 2 cents I read some of the response not all and not in depth .SO if I repeat anything sorry ..

So you need a PLAN right , thats the only way. You need to take steps .

1- how does OM contact you ? Cell phone well , get a new one.
2- Work , QUIT !
3-E-mail , get rid of them all screen names change them even provider get a new one .BLOCK and remove all his screen names so you do not know he is on.

Also you need to tell his W and you need to tell H .

Yes you will hit rock bottom , But at least you will build yourself up with a clean slate and start to put a moral and valuable life together.

None of this is easy , but when a WS truely wants recovery in there M and their own personal recovery they would take the steps to do so .

If you do nothing or minamal like just NC , then you are not serious about his and are just feeling sorry for yourself and playing the victom and your not .

The only VICTOMS, are H and and OM's WIFE .

Good Luck

Hi. I remember you. I won't call you by your old name since you say that makes you nauseaus but i won't call you by your new name either.

My suggestion... right now, before it gets too confusing pick a new POSITIVEname. I remember the difficulty in picking a name but please make it positive. How about NotGivingUp. You are not giving up right? Or maybe DeterminedToSuceed. you get the idea. Do you really want to associate "lost cause?" with yourself. This is not for our sake, it is for yours. By having this name you are re-inforcing a neg thougth about yourself even while you are here trying to pick up the pieces of your life. So why are you here? It is for a positive reason, right? I know it is. Capture that idea in your screen name. ok?

Once you have done this, I will be able to address you by name and I will post more.

love and prayers to you. Karen

This is what I've learned at my job....

I can use my expertise to create a great individualized "plan" for someone... detailing all the necessary steps for them to be restored to a higher level of wellness... (chronic pain program)

and despite all my efforts... the patient does nothing I have asked him/her to do in order to impliment the plan. Not one darn thing.

Then the patient might say "Nothing is going to help"... and that is soooo true FOR THAT INDIVIDUAL. Because they have not made a committment to wellness. So I have learned to not invest more and more effort into someone else's wellness than they are willing to invest.

So, are there things you are absolutely NOT willing to do in order to raise you level of wellness? What would those things be?

Pep

I must say ... nice new name!!!!!!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

NGU:

I'm thinking you may be on the verge of a new perspective on what's happened. One that might help you peek through the fog.

♥ Your H's ability 2 meet or not meet ENs had nothing 2 do with you choosing 2 have an A. 2 many WSs justify their inability 2 stop contact by saying something like "I'll have 2 go back 2 my humdrum life with my H".

♠ You didn't have the A because your M was unfulfilling. Your M seems unfulfilling because you're having an A.

-ol' 2long