NotGivingUp, now there is an excellent name!!

Welcome to marriage builders NGU.
(in a hushed voice: i know, i am being silly, you are not really new to MB, just humor me, i'm in a good mood and want to have a bit of fun).
You will find a lot of wonderful people here to help you on your way. I for one was a WW for 2 1/2 years. I had a really hard time breaking away from the destructive behaviour. I was never madly, deeply in love with the OM, i was medicating my depression. Then i became 100% addicted.

like all addictive destructive behaviour there was the constant up and down cycle. At the beginning the UP was so high and felt so good, the downs were not very noticable. that lasted about 3-6 months for me. when i look in a journal i kept at times. the first time i recorded a huge amount of desire to stop this terrible behavior was in jan '03. Then there was the time when there were equal ups and downs until the downs started to get lower and the ups no longer felt so good. that's how it was for me anyway.

For me, the PA began in jul '02. I only first chatted with OM 3 days before meeting him, the first mtg was in a public place and we just talked but in less than 1 week after that, i went to his appt and the PA officially started. not a pretty story is it? my stomach gets sick when i say these things.

before that, i had been tangled up in a habit of chatting and cyber online for just over a year, with various people. that was the real start of the medication i tried to use. but it became too ineffective and i finally choose a person to meet for real.

the year of chatting/chybering made me more and more numb to everything. it also made a joke out of real love and true sexual intimacy. so going from the screen to his apt suddenly seemed like no big thing.

I could write a 500 page book on it all but that is not the purpose here. and i don't think i could stomach it all.

The purpose is to tell you, you are not alone.

You are not alone NGU.

That said, you alone are responsible for doing what is necesary to pick up the pieces of your life and start to re-build first yourself and then your marriage.

Are you ready?? You have been given lots of advice here. What is your choosen first step? I personally think NC has to be firmly and completely iron clad. I had a really hard time with that step. not because i loved the person but because i had to take away the medication i was so dependent on. 100% NC has only been since 7-13 for me. i have not physically been with him since 11-03 but i struggled to let it all go. i still struggle sometimes, but just a little bit now and i am sure it will go away eventually (tommorow is OM b-day, i am struggling with that).

where are you exactly on that right now?? you have to make it impossible to continue contact NGU!!!!! you are too weak to accomplish that with just your willpower. i know i was. i know you realize this about yourself too.

keep posting NGU!!!

Quick check in here. I am at work and read everything quickly. I have to get back to work but wanted to thank you and I will be back on later.

FL thank you.

Pep and FL I'm glad you like my new name. I just hope I can keep that attitude.

NGU

Dear NGU,

I'm relatively new here so you don't know me.
Ok so I'm sitting on the other side of the fence (BS) but I hear you loud and clear my dear.
To me your whole story is not just about an A. It's about you destroying yourself like when on drugs. And I worry about you girl.

You need to stand up to this OM. He's your drug. Break free. Say NO. Think about him like he's heroin. He can take you to a fake heaven for a short while and then you'll be down in the real dirt afterwards.

The only real hell is the one we put ourselves through. Your way back to self-respect is doing the right thing from now on. Humbly but without putting yourself down. That's no contradiction, it's a necessary balance to get free from self-destructive behaviour. Being truely humble means being very loving, so loving you can do the right thing for yourself and others.

You say you don't believe in a higher force. I think you do. I think you're scared to feel it, scared to be rejected. Maybe even scared to accept that this higher force still loves you, unconditionally, and always will.

Do what you have to do to break this circle and return to the loving and caring person you are. If you decide to do the right thing with every step you take from now on, you will start to heal.

Sorry to be so serious <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .
I'm really worried about you..

hows it going NGU? waiting to hear more from you. you can do this! i know it's hard but you can do this. whatever your status just keep posting, ok?

Mrs X
I use this name bc that is how I know you and it is also still appropriate to call you Mrs X based upon your update.

I don't realy know what to say. Obviously it's your life. I can't come thru the computer and speak with you in person to convince you of something.

I come to MB less often these days. At one point part of my self worth was entwined into helping others, especially BHs and FWWs. Needless to say seeing your update hit me hard. I had hoped that my advice had been taken. I actually did suspect that things might not be right when I'd see you lurking with no updates or imput to others.

So after all this, you're more like my wife than you know. Her lies continued for 18 months.

One last item. Even if you're confused about OM, tell your H. He deserves to have a happy life, too.

I'll be thinking of you and hoping that you're getting your act together.


Mac (these days I go by my true nickname)

Hi I'm still here, and I have the same resolve as I have had for the past few days of trying to get out of this disaster.

I have a lot to ponder, how to tell my H of continued contact, what is going to become of us, me, him, etc. It's a scary place to be.

The only thing I can say is that I am so lonely. H just works and works and works and I never see him. I have to wait up until after midnight to see him which I do every night even though I have to be up at 5:30 am for work.

So rather than sit home and wait for him and have my mind wander to places it doesn't really need to be right now, I have been hanging out with my girlfriends, we go to the gym after work, have a bite to eat, hang out and I get home very late so I can stay the heck away from this computer which is a HUGE trigger for me. My friends know what is going on with me and they are very supportive in helping me break free from this insane addiction.

I have been away from the computer for the most part unless I am at work (which I am trying to concentrate more on, somewhat successfully). I know if I sit at this thing for too long I will start to obsess about OM, etc. so instead I just stay around friends. I figure if I can just get my head clear enough to think, I might have some rational thoughts seep in without the interference of this darned internet!! I am scared that if I stay online I will try to stalk the OM and the thought of that nauseates me quite frankly.

cwmac, thanks for taking the time out to reply to me. i appreciate your honesty and i'm sorry I lied to you as well as you were very very very tremendously nice to me all this time.

NGU

Ok I'll use the new name

Not Giving Up

No reason to appologize to me. I'm not your H and I'm not your shrink. I guess I could never be acounselor since I can't detach.

So what is your plan? Do you have one? I went back and read some of your earlier posts and would make the following observations:

1) You need to tell your H

2) You need to go to IC to work on your self esteem issues. You probably also need to be on ADs. You sound as though your using OM as artificial ADs.

3) You and H need MC in a bad way. You need to get the marriage issues out on the table. You've expressed a number of resentments: he works too much, the children issue and the issue of his conflict avoidance re: the affair. I'm not sure if you sexual needs are still an issue bc I couldn't follow which posts were lies and which weren't.

4) You need to tell OM's W. Who knows maybe she'll D the idiot and you'll get him after all. Was your description of OM accurate or a lie for the SYMC board? He sounds like a real gem.

All parties to a M have resentments. I'm sure H has a few of his own.

A few observations on each of yours:

Kids: Did you know H position b4 M? Has anyone's position changed after M? His? Yours?

His work: Is there any way you could work with or for your H? Even if it was part time. Even If you just went in on weekends to assist with basic organization. You could then go to lunch occassionally with H.

Sex: One post made it sound as though this issue was better. I remember posts from last Fall that said H was weak in this dept.

Recreational Activities: You need to find something that you and he enjoy.

In my case, communication between me and the W has gotten to the point where I felt comfortable discussing my resentments: focus on children at my expense, her control of SF and the lack of variety and being the loyal H who is only known as the provider.

My situation with W isn't perfect but we are making progress. I still have my days when I say," why am I doing this? What a fool." I still have trust issues w/ W. I still feel that she's just w/ me bc OM was too big of a coward to leave his W. She does her best to show love but it's just not the same.

I will probably never truely trust her again. Even if we stay married for the rest of our lives and you ask me at the age of 80 if my W loved me, I won't be able to answer with 100% certainty.

Also im my situation I truely believe that the A would have continued if we hadn't told OM's W. Telling her thru cold water on the entire relationship.

If your description of OM is true, my guess is that he highly exagerates the troubled state of his M. I could be wrong but telling her will end A for good.

Mac

Well what can I add?

Im very new here so please bear that in mind

Its pretty clear you have not really gotten your H to understand one single thing, maybe you didn't tell him? you're lonely?? Bored? want a child??
Do you expect him to read minds?
You know sometimes spouses need you to keep repeating and talking about the important things or they are ignored, too uncomfortable, too hard to handle.

Lots of people have said it to you lots of ways...you are still in the place which allowed you to choose an affair. Both of you never changed.

Are both of you responsible...... yes as much as I am for mine I guess, however you hold a HUGE portion of it as you really do know better.

That said are you really a bad evil person, dont think so, but you are flawed, perhaps a bit more than average, who knows, I dont??? However dont go throwing yourself on the scrap heap yet.

I think you have some VERY important issues to resolve, children is a BIG one. Did you ever think your A could be directly related to this elemental driving force?
When you M your H did you REALLY accept he would not want children or that he would change his mind?
Look when you are younger and in love you think you can accept all conditions to make a M with the one you love. But unless it was for some medical reason, I dont think it was reasonable of your H to set out such a condition in the first place. This was very selfish and not a action that should have occurred. JMHO
That is not excusing your actions at all.

If we put aside the A just for one moment, think about this honestly, how strong is this need to have a child? It is in almost every post you have made. Frankly, I think you would seriously consider leaving your M to have a child your desire is so strong regardless of the A. Again JMHO based on your posts.

And I wonder, if you had got pregnant, not knowing it was your lover or H, I would not be surprised if the OM suddenly lost his hold on you. You would have got what you wanted. Would your M have survived a child your H did not want? Who knows but it is apparent that you are prepared to find out.

Now I dont think it is at all unreasonable for a healthy young woman to want a child. It very natural. However Im not sure you have a M that it would be good to bring a child into. Not right now.

Now the obsession thing that is so obvious with the OM. I think it is a real disorder in your case. You need professional therapy not just an IC as that obviously isnt working. So go get it & stop making excuses.

As for telling you H, Though I hesitate to say this, maybe now is not the right time. WHY?? Well you have at least 2 BIG issues which I hope you get professional help, I mean a real therapist not the corner IC, the issue of a child and the obsession with the OM. What happens if you tell him, he forgives AGAIN then you find some months later that you cannot go on as the child issue is just too big to overcome?? You will just hurt him twice in a short time.
I suggest giving yourself 6 months or what ever a therapist advises before you tell him. No matter his faults I think he deserves not to be hurt thrice over.

I have one more thing to say, and I mean this not in a hurtful way …....grow up girl!!
I really think this is a part of your problem - growing up, maturity. You seem to say I out of control so I don’t have any way to stop what I’m doing…………my teenagers would think you would fit right in with them. While you may have some control /actions problems, as an adult you can choose to get professional help, children don’t, teenagers mostly don’t, but you do.

SO GO GET IT!!!

hi sweetie!! Thanks for the email. I'm in your corner all the way. The way I see it is that the problems that were there before the A are still there. That doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out, huh? You and H are going to have to have a total spilling of the guts conversation!! I personally think that he is clueless as to all this turmoil that is going on inside you. Sweetie, you have to talk to him. He is the man that loves you, not OM and I know that you know that. I think that you also need to tell OM's wife. That would be making a bold move to insure that he leaves you alone.

If I read your first post correctly, OM contacted you first this time. He is selfish and controlling. He knows what hell this has put you through and how much you are trying to save your marriage and yet he will not leave you alone!!! What does that say about him T??? You have to tell H about this though and he needs to know that something is going to have to change in your M. He needs to join with you in what work lies ahead for you two. Everything that is on your heart and that you have expressed here, you need to express to H.

I'm so sorry for all that is going on with you but I'm glad that you came back here. I'm not throwing any 2 x 4's because you are beating yourself up enough about this. You don't need anyone to tell you how wrong this is, you already know it. You aren't the type to carry on this charade of a life and it not bother you, I know you too well. Don't give up on yourself or h. I'm on your side!!!

[bump]

This is disheartening MRSX.
I remember your advice to others, such as 'Sarie', when she was having difficulty not communicating with her OM anymore and you saying it could be done; that you had stopped!

Yes, you lied to your fellow brothers and sisters here.

But I have discovered that if a spouse can lie to their mate and children, it is easy to lie to strangers on this MB.

As a sexual lady myself, I have doubts that you are telling the truth that you and the OM are not having passionate sex anymore...It doesn't make too much sense to me, to continue a sneaky affair if you are not 'doing it'....

I guess I wonder how many others are just writing how they have changed and really are still on that same wrong road with the OP.

Sincerely, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> (feelin kinda sad this morning)

<small>[ August 18, 2004, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>