Hi,

I’m just going to jump in here with my story. This site was reccommended to me on another site…I guess they felt I’d feel more comfortable here. From my brief lurk it seems they may be right.

Ok. My story. My father recently passed away. Shortly before his death we found out that the affair that we thought started and ended in the 90’s in fact started 24 years ago and basically never ended. My dad had been living a double life for the majority of his 35 year marriage to my mother. And then he died.

So needless to say the drama fallout has been enormous. Tons of questions – and he’s not here to answer them. I can’t properly grieve my dad because I’m grieving his loss and the loss of the man I thought he was.

My mother is my main concern. My sister and I try to get her to not complex over it – but that’s futile because we complex about it ourselves. She nearly had a full on breakdown the week after his funeral under the weight of the truth that is being revealed now. (And the other sick part is that there are elements of this “truth” that we can’t fully trust either…)

Our contact with the OW has not gone well. In her mind, we’re evil, and she and her son (not my father’s but apparently my father and he were very close) are the ones who are truly suffering. Our lack of sympathy for them makes us hateful in their eyes.

So that’s the basic outline of my story. There are other details – other people involved (my grandmother for one).

Has anyone navigated these waters before? I’m looking for advice for my mom and the rest of my family.

Thanks.

Dear D,

I am sorry you and your family are suffering through this in silence. Your father was highly disrespectful to all of you esp your mom.

Though I have not had this type of 1st hand experience, I would like to welcome you to MB and hope that we can provide some support.

Is the OW asking to be treated as family? I hope she isn't eyeballing any hopes of being an heir. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Please be patient with us. People post here from all over the world. More will come.

Again, welcome to MB. It is a great place to get good support.

Hugz,
L.

I have, somewhat.

I grew up with little "flashbacks" of seeing my mother with another man. She taught me to question my memories as "dreams" to hide her secret. I knew who the man was - one of my dad's car-pool-mate who took my big brothers fishing because my dad hated to fish... He had a daughter my age and a son who looked quite similar to my little brother...

I finally confronted my mother about the flashbacks three years after I got married. Turns out, my mother believes I'm an "OC", as is my little sister and my little brother - no small accident he happens to look like the other little boy.

The OM is dead - died when I was 9 years old. I know the OMW knew because when her daughter and I started to run around together, and I stopped by her house to practice orchestra music, I got a lecture about morality - I was twelve, and devoutly Christian, with active participation in extra-curricular religion classes... I couldn't figure out where she got off giving me a lecture about morality.

After we grew up, my friend cooled considerably toward me - after my mother made full disclosure, it occurred to me that perhaps this angry OMW told my friend that I was possibly more than a friend (when OM died, she found three children's photos in his wallet - since my mom had five children, it didn't take much for OMW to believe there was more than a car pool buddy attachment going on here - especially because the photos of the two boys he always took fishing weren't among the photos...

Where am I with all this? It's awkward. My dad doesn't know. (The dad I grew up believing is my father - and who I consider to be my father). My little sister and little brother don't know. And I don't want the burden of that revelation on my conscience.

My mother is bothered that I didn't keep her secret - I shared with my husband, my therapist and my bishop and other ministers. I needed the moral support because what she told me ROCKED my world.

What else could I tell you that would help you?

Orchid - Thanks for the welcome. No, she’s not exactly or blantly seeking heir status – but they have requested that we give them items of my dad’s so that they can have mementoes of his life. And this request was made after the son chastised my mother for her “immature, disprespctful and degrading” behavior.

It’s a mess to be sure and for the life of me I simply cannot understand people who behave this way. You cause pain in someone else’s life – and then get mad at them!?!?

KaylaAndy…

Wow. Your story is even more complicated than mine. I’m really starting to wonder – are there ANY families out there who are not dealing with situations like these in one form or another? I’m 33 years old. And I can’t put a finger on any marriage in my family that’s solid. I have horrible examples of marriages to look up to. And I suspect that most people are in the same boat.

I need to know what to tell my mom when she gets depressed. Her grief is normal in most ways – and abnormal because of the hurt and anger on top of the loss.

DadsD: If and when you ever get married, please get and read Harley's "Fall in Love, Stay in Love" and use it as a guide to what a good marriage should look like. You obviously do not have and adequate model from your own family. At least you have the "gift" of knowing that. I never understood how negative family models and habits were affecting me until after we had almost gone into the divorce abyss.

I don't really have any advice about your main question. It may help your mom cope a little bit to read the chapter of Mulliken's "The State of Affairs" that deals with the "Double Life Man". (The most common type of men's affair, I might add, though only a small number take it to the degree that your father did. Most are serial cheaters.) You could get a copy and read it yourself and try to judge if it would be helpful to her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DadsD:
<strong> Orchid - Thanks for the welcome. No, she’s not exactly or blantly seeking heir status – but they have requested that we give them items of my dad’s so that they can have mementoes of his life. And this request was made after the son chastised my mother for her “immature, disprespctful and degrading” behavior.

It’s a mess to be sure and for the life of me I simply cannot understand people who behave this way. You cause pain in someone else’s life – and then get mad at them!?!? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The nerve of the OWs son. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

It is hard to believe these types of people exist but they do, in many walks of life, shapes and colors. What they have in common is a very selfish attitude.

You and your family owe them nothing. The OW and son owe you all the part and things he stole from your family to share with them (including time, love & $$). Since you can't recover the time and love, you may let her know you are thinking about the $$ factor. That should rattle her cage and hopefully shut her up.

In fact, check out your state's laws. If alienation of affection is a crime, your family could actually sue her and her son. If for the least to redeem a piece of your family's honor. Make sure you have proof though. The courts generally don't like hearsay. A good lawyer will let you know if you have a good case.

As for consoling your mom, please click on the link below about the 5 stages of grieving. It will take you to a post which point you to the actual post - click on that link also. Your family is going through a double whammy of grieving stages and yes, anger is one of them.

A family friend just lost his W to Alheizmers a couple of months ago, yet just last week he told my SIL that he was angry at his W because she was not there to help him get ready for his cataract surgery. Now before you start jumping all over him, he is still grieving. He is angry because she isn't there as he has become accustomed. All part of the grieving.

I recommend your family counsel with Steve Harley. He does phone counseling here at MB and maybe able to help your family get over this part of the grieving process in a smoother manner. There is no easy way out but there are options to lessen the pain.

When she is ready, your mom will want closure. You all will. It maybe too early to determine what that is and it maybe different for each person.

L.

Hi Dadsd,

I can't imagine what your mom must be going through right now, as well as you and your sister. I am so sorry.

Does your mom have a computer? Along with the others advice, maybe she could find comfort here with those who also are victims of affairs. She is going to be terribly lonely after the shock wears off. If she dosn't have a computer, could you get her one and get her started? It's helpful to be able to find comfort on boards such as this one, in the really bad hours.

Weaver

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by johnh39:
<strong> DadsD: If and when you ever get married, please get and read Harley's "Fall in Love, Stay in Love" and use it as a guide to what a good marriage should look like. You obviously do not have and adequate model from your own family. At least you have the "gift" of knowing that. I never understood how negative family models and habits were affecting me until after we had almost gone into the divorce abyss.

I don't really have any advice about your main question. It may help your mom cope a little bit to read the chapter of Mulliken's "The State of Affairs" that deals with the "Double Life Man". (The most common type of men's affair, I might add, though only a small number take it to the degree that your father did. Most are serial cheaters.) You could get a copy and read it yourself and try to judge if it would be helpful to her. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do plan on getting married John. Don’t know when. But I have not lost my faith in marriage. If anything seeing marriages like my parents and others in my family – I feel more prepared on the “what not to do” side than most people I know. My friends are amazed because they have lost faith in the idea of marriage. But my sister and I haven’t. In a way I feel that giving up like that is validating the bad choices people make in regards to marriages and family. Not me.

Hi DadsD,

I just wanted to welcome you too and add a few of my own thoughts.

First,your mom has been dealt a huge blow.Talk about betrayal! Until you have actually gone through being a beytrayed spouse,you can never really know just how BAD that is.In my experience,it brought me to the brink of insanity,suicide and a hospitalization.There's really no words to describe how painful it is to be betrayed in that way.

So,your mom needs a LOT of TLC,counseling,maybe even some antidepressants and company.I could barely function when I first found out so your mom needs to be looked after like a newborn in a way.It is a huge trauma to her very core so she will need a lot of help.This is not something she can get over or get through quickly or more easily just because people tell her too.

Second.Going through my own parents dysfuction and there was a lot I dealt with: (dual alcoholism,suicide attempt,divorce,abandonment,emotional abuse,etc)you can do anything and everything to prevent that from happening in your own life BUT you AND a partner have to be in it together.So if you do read any books,make sure your partner is willing to explore himself,past behaviors and upbringing too.I thought I had everything figured out and I was determined not to make the same mistakes my parents made.But what I didn't count on was all the issues my WH had going on inside him that I could not have forseen fully.

I'm so sorry for your mom.Tell her we are friends and think of her.Tell the OW's family to GET LOST! Like Orchid said,they have absolutely NO business even talking to you.I would get a restraining order if they keep it up.I am getting mad just thinking about that! Your mom needs to be shielded from their advances so be her protector at this time.Make it VERY clear that you will not be involved with those people and they are to leave your family alone.

O

<small>[ August 12, 2004, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Originally posted by Orchid:
The nerve of the OWs son. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

It is hard to believe these types of people exist but they do, in many walks of life, shapes and colors. What they have in common is a very selfish attitude. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Selfish and Attitude are very key words in this situation. This woman and her son are over the top. They want a pity party for their loss – acknowledgment of what they’ve suffered. Yet and still, when my father was in his last days, they were out running up bills on his credit card. The greed is incredible. But we’re supposed to believe that their relationship was more love filled and family oriented than the one he shared with us. And as such we’re in the wrong for not honoring it.

As for the issue of alienation of affection. If it were up to me I’d be all on top of it. But my mom is of a different mindset. She’s tired. She’s done. She just wants this whole mess over with. We do have to have some contact with them because there are legal and financial things that have to be dealt with in regards to my dad’s estate. Things that they may owe his estate. So we’re in a good position as far as that’s concerned. And yes, we have an excellent lawyer.

Plus rumor has it that everything they have is in jeopardy now. They lived a very nice lifestyle at my father’s expense – only she was too stupid to make arrangments to sustain that lifestyle without him. Therefore she’s about to loose a lot of it. Ask me if I’m terribly concerned.

I will check out those links – thanks.

Actually my mom is in counseling. My parents have been in marriage counseling for several years as well as individual counseling. So her therapist has been helpful especially since she says that she and my dad were just starting to tap into some of his deeper issues. He just ran out of time I guess.

My mom has good days and bad days. Yesterday was a bad day because she’s still dealing with a lot of the paperwork and every so often a condolence letter or something will pop up and take her back to her grief. All of its normal – but she seem to have a hard time understanding that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If anything seeing marriages like my parents and others in my family – I feel more prepared on the “what not to do” side than most people I know. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ohhh... how can I describe teh rush of painful emotions that quote provokes in me? The most succint way to put it is simply to say that I found out that not doing the bad things was not good enough...you have to know how to do the good things...AND, most importantly, you have to know what the most important good things are. My marriage almost ended because although I was doing lots of good things, and very few bad things, I was NOT doing the three most important good things well - and frankly, I was wasting time and energy on "other good things" that I should have been directing at the most important good things. Harley, better than any other marriage and relationship author I have seen (and I've read books by about 10 of them) enumerates what those important things are:
1) Care
2) Protection and
3) Conflict Resolution through the POJA

He shows you how and provides some tools to help you in the book I recommended.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Originally posted by Orchid:
The nerve of the OWs son. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

It is hard to believe these types of people exist but they do, in many walks of life, shapes and colors. What they have in common is a very selfish attitude. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Selfish and Attitude are very key words in this situation. This woman and her son are over the top. They want a pity party for their loss – acknowledgment of what they’ve suffered. Yet and still, when my father was in his last days, they were out running up bills on his credit card. The greed is incredible. But we’re supposed to believe that their relationship was more love filled and family oriented than the one he shared with us. And as such we’re in the wrong for not honoring it.

As for the issue of alienation of affection. If it were up to me I’d be all on top of it. But my mom is of a different mindset. She’s tired. She’s done. She just wants this whole mess over with. We do have to have some contact with them because there are legal and financial things that have to be dealt with in regards to my dad’s estate. Things that they may owe his estate. So we’re in a good position as far as that’s concerned. And yes, we have an excellent lawyer.

Plus rumor has it that everything they have is in jeopardy now. They lived a very nice lifestyle at my father’s expense – only she was too stupid to make arrangments to sustain that lifestyle without him. Therefore she’s about to loose a lot of it. Ask me if I’m terribly concerned.

I will check out those links – thanks.

Actually my mom is in counseling. My parents have been in marriage counseling for several years as well as individual counseling. So her therapist has been helpful especially since she says that she and my dad were just starting to tap into some of his deeper issues. He just ran out of time I guess.

My mom has good days and bad days. Yesterday was a bad day because she’s still dealing with a lot of the paperwork and every so often a condolence letter or something will pop up and take her back to her grief. All of its normal – but she seem to have a hard time understanding that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
<strong> Hi Dadsd,

I can't imagine what your mom must be going through right now, as well as you and your sister. I am so sorry.

Does your mom have a computer? Along with the others advice, maybe she could find comfort here with those who also are victims of affairs. She is going to be terribly lonely after the shock wears off. If she dosn't have a computer, could you get her one and get her started? It's helpful to be able to find comfort on boards such as this one, in the really bad hours.

Weaver </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Weaver,

I wish I could get my mom to embrace the idea of sharing and support online. But shes's very old school. We just got her comfortable with online bill paying! lol! No, for her a comp is a tool note a source of help in a situation like this. But that's ok though - I want her to find her support in the way that makes her feel most comfortable. For her thats her friends. So she does have a support system.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DadsD:
<strong> KaylaAndy…

I’m really starting to wonder – are there ANY families out there who are not dealing with situations like these in one form or another? I’m 33 years old. And I can’t put a finger on any marriage in my family that’s solid. I have horrible examples of marriages to look up to. And I suspect that most people are in the same boat.

I need to know what to tell my mom when she gets depressed. Her grief is normal in most ways – and abnormal because of the hurt and anger on top of the loss. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DD, I was just about your age when I had my son. I confronted my mother 5 years before that. I was in group therapy at the time for my dad's alcoholism and domestic violence/animal abuse tendencies. I asked the same question you have - I wonder if any marriages out there are functional.

But you know what? I knew what it was "supposed" to be like - I just had a sense of treating people I love with honor, dignity and respect. And I didn't know how to draw that forth in treatment toward me.

You are in a great place to learn how to do that - to give and receive gentleness, humor, love and respect.

You don't need a role model for that. You just need the power of choice. And since you are not married yet, you still have that power!