Dear Ithurts, saw your post to me - can you pls tell me your story as that it what I suspect as well.

Many thanks

I was a WS - my OP who is now my WH - was single when I met him. I left my BS within 6 months, a year later M my WS.

We have been M almost 10 years - I believe that over those years my WS had been cheating but I could never find any real evidence.

5 years into our M - we acquired a business - which has been very profitable. Since that time my WH has become IMHO blatant about his A's. I know of 4 MW that he has been involved with. 2 work(ed)for us. Talk about taking risks - sexual harrasement issues...Scares the crap out of me.

Since they have been M and I was M when I met him - I believe he could be a sexual preditor, serial cheater and a cakeman. He loves the excitement and the hotel rooms are a high for him. Being that he told me he was "never going to leave me". Why stay with a women that you only have sex with once year (on vacation).He denies me nothing financially - but EN and sexual needs were never met during our M.

Since I see all the phone bills and stupidly confronted him - he now uses prepaid phone cards. He blames his A's on me you name it - I've done it wrong or I'm not Perfect enough(yes, he's a Virgo and a perfectionist - go figure). I have "owned" my M mistakes and have vowed to change to put 100% into our M. I know he's seen my changes but he chooses to ignore them - it's easier to blame anyone but themselves.

He takes no accountability for his A actions. Nor will he stop. He will not see a therapist nor admit to our close friends/family what he is doing. He mainly has his romp in the hay during the day so he's home at nite. The only remorse he felt was in getting caught - months ago he said he loved me, never meant to hurt me, etc. but then he fell back into the OP's trap again.

I don't think he has the nerve to leave me or split up half of all that we have acquired. I think he really wants me to leave him - it's easier that way - he can tell everyone "well, she left. I'm his 4th W - you think he would learn. I blame everything from who he has been hanging around with - to stress, mid-life crisis, too much money too fast, etc. Maybe I need to wake up and see that cheating is a way of life for him. It fulfill's him, makes him feel secure having more than one women, makes him feel superior, etc. I'm starting to believe that IT IS WHO HE IS...HE CAN'T STOP..NOTHING IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR HIM..He's a very goal orientated person, maybe picking up women is another goal he's always looking to achieve.

I'm getting stronger at least some days, since I've known all this for a year now, and I need to ask him to D me..Let me go...I cannot D him - not when I still have love in my heart for him. I love the man "I thought he was"..It's sad to think my whole M to him was a lie, but, that's how I see it. My therapist says "I'm the doll in the china closet". His D is getting M next month once that is over - one of us has to make a move one way or the other - I cannot go on like this, and I don't think he'll make a move to improve/change things. Classis Cakeman..Unless one of his OP's really applies pressure and he fears losing her. I do believe he has fallen for one of them now - before it was just "fun". He's in too deep maybe this one is S..I don't know who for sure it is - so I can't expose YET...

Is this similiar to how you are living????

Hi, I replied to Snow. Sorry for the delay as I've been away and yes, I'm looking at two sides as I am tryng to see it from W's side too.

My story: well, close to 3 years not 6 months but the person maybe. He is also very goal orientated and can be very cold I think (but then so am I). If he loves you he really loves you but I don't know what will happen when he stops. I have seen him with his wife though and he is very polite very considerate so at least he is not a complete jerk. There is no love there - I have seen enough for myself. D day was about 2 months ago and he is saying it's time to do something about it. I am just worried that this will happen to me down the road as does he, all things that start murky have trouble clearing up. Also, nobody wants to break up a family. Am just confused as to what to do - what the right things is to do (leave, stay end, wait?)

Thanks for taking the time to reply to reply to me. How are things with you.

Sweeney - Yes, they are very polite and considerate to their BS. My WH puts on a wonderful "show" in front of our friends, family, hell, for years he even had me convinced. But, I have come to realize that my life with him has been all about the "show".

Your are right to question how your relationship with him would be 5,10 + years down the road. If he is anything like my WH he cannot sustain a committed R. They always have to have a back-up plan. Yes, my WH is VERY COLD...he can shut you out with such a smile on his face. I really wish some oe these OP's that my WH is S###### would call me - believe me they would be shocked to know the TRUTH. I bet they think they are the only ONE my WH has been with or is seeing at the present time - boy, would I have a suprise for them. I bet he tells them he has to do something with me - while he's sneaking off to be with another OP...A serial cheater has it made - they know their OP can only check up on them so far. They have everybody "snowed". Andy they are enjoying every minute of the "game". It's funny when my WH is out on his own for drinks - what do you think he's doing???? Heck, he's just looking for his next "victim"..or "partner in crime".


I think you should do alot of soul searching before you leave your BS for this man. I don't think you can really trust this man. If he's cheated on his BS in the past - why would he change is ways - just for you...I don't think so...Maybe for awhile - but not long term...I hate to be so blunt but it's what I've been living and it ain't pretty...

thanks for your input. I think being a former WS you know alot more. well, i have to say that I'm not a pretty picture as well. (am going to get blasted online I know) but I know what it's like to cheat and I know what it's like to do the show. If you looked at me and my H, you would think that I am the doting devoted ever loving perfect wife, who can't keep her hands off her H. Why do I do that - it's been like that for the 's the longest time, I think to myself that's the way a marriage should be and if I act like that long enough, one day I might just feel like that - but no such luck.
Both MM and I have always been honest with each other. Both married, both dissatisfied but not unhappy enough to leave - to leave for what? We found each other and while it was magic from day one, I won't say I met my soul mate that day or that I wanted to leave my H that day or for very long after for that matter. It's been constant daily contact (daily lunch, dinner every other night, calls throughout teh day, weekends together (yes we managed that, horribly, all four of us are friends - have stopped that though), HOLIDAYS together (even worse - went on a week long camping trip just the four of us - no hanky panky though). And through the years, he been always there (at great inconvinience and cost at times) and every time we hit a snag, he comes through for me. He has always put us first and I ahve not seen anything to indicate that he would ever abandon me (and I am not stupid, this affair was as much his fault as mine, there was no fooling each other) and the more I know him, the more I like him and love him. At first I though alot of the feelings nust be about the illicitness or the thrill of it, not really, many times, we have dinner and watch tv together and just talk about the day, holding hands. it's bizarre.

He is very worried that I will cheat on him over time and perhaps with reason as I am cheating now aren't I. I can't say that one person forever is really something that I am about but what I am certain about is that I can't continue this way as in life we need to be singleminded about the important things and I think about fidelity and love and family we need to. He has said that if I can't or won't leave my husband he wants to continue anyway (even though d day has occured on his side). But that if we can we should just be honest with all parties and start over. He has cheated before though (with same W) and I fear that happening again. He is quite honest about it though and says that yes possibility but we can work together to make sure it doesn't happen - I know what he means as I have the tendency and it is not deliberate, I sometimes can see how things get out of control - he has been very vigilant about me never getting into a place where this happens and I can see it working as this man's mind works like mine and we will never run out of ways to amuse each other. That's what counts right when you're old and wrinkly?

or maybe I am deluded - is this the fog they speak of?

It's a tough call. Reading TOW, I'm horrified it's so common, should have know heh and don't want to be a statistic. So the question is - do I go for it??? I really want to but not right now as we need to sort out heads right and make sure everyone is ok.

Thanks for listening. I pulled out some of your old posts to see if I could be of any help to you. Sorry to say this but he is a mille feuille cakeman. But you're his legitimate wife and partner in his business - the reason why he can swagger around. Don'e get angry - get everything (so said a very famous tall blonde once) I know you love him and want to stay married so I guess you have to discipline him somewhat. What's he going to do - run off with some ditz with no money at his age (how old is he?). I am pretty crappy at this stuff as am not very patient but am always happy to listen if you have venting to do.

So Sweeney - I'm trying to read between the lines here - So are you saying that if you and OP "would" get together - either of you has the potential to stray??? I'm I reading your latest post wrong??? You both know that your current R together is working now - but, may not in the future - once you both are "free"? Sorry if I misinterpreted..

Sounds to me like you both need space away from each other and your BS. Basically, you need to get your S*** together and make some type of decision and live with it..YOu both are eating cake right now and that truly isn't fair to your BS. Maybe this OP is just a stepping stone for you - if you truly don't see yourself ever being happily and honestly M to your BS - why stay and have him lose out on having a real life/wife?

What EN does this OP fill for you that your WS doesn't??? Are you having sexual relations with your H? What is your true attraction to this OP? How do you find so much time to spend together? Isn't your BS wondering what's going on? What type of reaction do you think your BS would make when you come clean? Maybe M and a long term committ isn't who you are, and if that's true there isn't anything wrong with that -you just need to look in the mirror and face it..

I know this is marriage builders - but...the facts are the facts..Being M to a serial cheater and knowing that my WH probably can't change even though he'd like to "think" he can makes me believe that no matter how much you love someone - you are who you are.

My WS is 51 - I'm 47. I'm not sure which "ditz" he's running with right now - I just can't believe he would throw away what he worked so many years for financially. THough, he may look at it like - this business will always survive and he can spring back no matter what $$ he has to pay me.

And yes, if I am forced to file for D - I will go for everything I can get financially. I will squeeze the tar out of him - though he'll recover. I just feel that I left my job of 19 years to go into business with him and 5 years later it's all about him. I won't have the ability to earn the type of money we are earning now and that's not fair to me. I am willing to move forward with our M - but, he has to put his A's in the past and bury that side of him for good. I don't want to start over - I still have love in my heart for him - but I can't keep living a life of lies. It breaks my heart when I know he has been with so many women and shut me out sexually for years. I was willing to live with that when I "thought" it was just a low sex drive - only to find out he's been getting it elsewhere. It's not like I don't take care of myself..Believe me if I hung out looking of it - I'd get it before him. Sometimes, I wonder if it's a "control thing" - he knows what I want and withholds it...

So are you saying that if you and OP "would" get together - either of you has the potential to stray???
===========No we talked about the potential risk of our future marriage working out over time as neither of us have any intention to leave unless we know we can make it all the way till we die. And the truth is that we are both bad at discipline and being very outgoing types, we know that it is possible that we may at some point in time find other people attractive. Right now I cannot imagine that ever happening but we have to be very honest and it's true that that will happen and we talked about how to prevent anything happening, how it has to be about discipline and how we should never let anything get out of hand. I mean, if you're honest with yourself, there are always attarctive people out there (am not talking about looks but personality character) and if you are not careful and there are opportunities, one thing can always lead to another. Like us. We were very very close platonic friends for about a year of daily contact. Work as usual.
Sounds to me like you both need space away from each other and your BS. Basically, you need to get your S*** together and make some type of decision and live with it..YOu both are eating cake right now and that truly isn't fair to your BS.

==========Yes we are doing that right now. We're both in counselling to understadn why out Ms didn't work out. and we want to understand ourselves better. We want to make a clean break and get married in time.

Maybe this OP is just a stepping stone for you - if you truly don't see yourself ever being happily and honestly M to your BS - why stay and have him lose out on having a real life/wife?

==========Oh I will be very happy with him, we just want to make sure we don't implode years down the line

What EN does this OP fill for you that your WS doesn't???
=======We are very similair though very different and this might sound silly but it's the same wavelength. He fulfils me emotionally and intellectually and I admire and respect him very much. He makes me see s things I don't see about myself anf situations and (usually with others I just dismiss their point as I don't think very much of their views) I do the same for him. Life is very rich with him in it.

Are you having sexual relations with your H?

=====Yes though not if I can help it. I don't know if you will understand but while my heart is not truly with H, I am trying to be a good W to him - emotional support, interest in his work his life, littel thinsg to make him happy and SR when I have to. It could be guilt.

How do you find so much time to spend together? ===We make time.

Isn't your BS wondering what's going on? What type of reaction do you think your BS would make when you come clean?

===== yes am sure he does and am sure he suspects but I think he would rather not know. He would be upset but we are friends and we will always work things out. We both believe you can force someone to be something they are not and you can't make them feels things they do not. If exposed, I might say to him, look we are married and you know it is an institution and it is working. But I am not sexually faithful and this man I will never get out of my mind of my heart. What do you want me to do about it. He can choose to D me or we can do something else. Our families are very entwined and I have friends who are happily married but seeing other happily M people and everyone knows about the arrnagement - the main thing is to keep consistency for the kids. This might seem bizarre but there is a strange sort of honesty in it. Who's to say the traditional H&W arrangement works for everyone. The important things is that you shoudln't lie and I am working on that. Am goingt o expose myself soon.

Maybe M and a long term committ isn't who you are, and if that's true there isn't anything wrong with that -you just need to look in the mirror and face it..

=====It is and it isn't. i cannot love this H with all my heart and soul as I never did. But I like him alot. I don't think he loves me with all his heart and soul but we get along fabulously and we always will. The OP is different, I love and adore him completetly - it's just different types of love I guess.

I know this is marriage builders - but...the facts are the facts..Being M to a serial cheater and knowing that my WH probably can't change even though he'd like to "think" he can makes me believe that no matter how much you love someone - you are who you are

========== he's not going to change - EVER. PERIOD. It's what you want to do with it and the balls in your court. People can't hurt you if you don't let them. I know it's hard now and i would be a wreck but if you are a fairly objective kind of person - take your heart out of the equation for a moment and think. What is more important, companionship or love, do you want to look for a new love a new man? can you live with this man if he was discreet and at least tried to stop cheating? Do you think you will find new love? If I loved a man, don't think I can live with infidelity but if I liked him and we were best friends and biz partners I might be able to live with it (many many many families do that-wife turns a blind eye as she doesn't really want her H sexually and would actually rather he gets it elsewhere - don't scream its true.)

So! if yo're still a foxy lady - take him to the cleaners _ you can (which state do you live in?) (do you have children sorry I can't remember) Also from this moment on start living it up - spend your (his ) money like water so you can claim huge maintenence bills in future. Squeeze him dry and go find a new man and enjoy yourself for once. He's not going to change and I think maybe you made a mistake leaving your H before but heck, surely you can look back and say not all of the ten years were bad - were you happy? Am sure you were. Was it really that much of a lie? Difficult circumstances require unusual methods - imagine a husband who cheats but is loving, kind, attentive, affectionate, provides for you, is interested in what you do vs a very faithful husband who is more interested in sports/cars/work/other poeple and does not do any of the above. Which would you frankly prefer. I am NOT saying at all that fidelity should be unimportant, just a post DD kind of rational so you feel better - so you don't hurt. Unless you re-wired his brain he will NEVER EVER CHANGE. so what you do in your hands honey. Am rootin for ya.

when I "thought" it was just a low sex drive - only to find out he's been getting it elsewhere. It's not like I don't take care of myself..Believe me if I hung out looking of it - I'd get it before him. Sometimes, I wonder if it's a "control thing" - he knows what I want and withholds it...

======= no don't think so. Tell me more about your interaction with him. What is he like. What is the level of attention you get from him. Just how he is at home/how he is with you and his friends/family, how he makes time for you, his level of interest in what you do, what you guys do together and how much time you spend together. Does he need you - at work or at home? need a clearer picture. And the ditzes are they short physical affairs or are they emotional. You know the reason why brothels/massage parlous/courtesans/geishas/mistress are so popular is because seriously it is a drag to be a slave to the male homrone and they are idiots who need to get variety and it out of the system. Many men and some women can compartmentalise life in Home (wife kids job), Outside Home (sex with others). Not sure if it will ever change. And they do it becasue they can. simple fact. The question is how to prevent it. I think it's a mistake to think of pure love and relationships where poeple never think about straying at all, it's about prevention and now that I've been a WS I know alot about it.

Everyone has the potential to stray - opportunities arises for all of us - what's important is to put your S first - not yourself at least that's how I feel. Enjoy that someone complimented you or has an attraction fell good about it - but, don't let it go any further, move on..

----Maybe this OP is just a stepping stone for you - if you truly don't see yourself ever being happily and honestly M to your BS - why stay and have him lose out on having a real life/wife?

--Oh I will be very happy with him, we just want to make sure we don't implode years down the line

THere are no guarantees and it sounds like that is what you are both "hoping for". I truly thought when I left my M that this was it - my new love was in it forever - much to my suprise he's a very weak and selfish person. I thought he was such a "man" a good wholesome person boy was I wrong. Yes, he was there emotionally for me during my D but after that he wasn't and maybe I was just in the "fog". Though it sounds as if you and your OP "talk" - we never really did in our R - we just fell in love and went from there. At least you both seem to know what you are getting - I on the other hand didn't have a clue - I ws M a lier and a cheat.

Boy, to tell your BS that you are ok with the M and Like him but want sex outside of the M with this OP I don't think most men will go for that. THough, if your in CA. it might work.,hahha..What other benefits will your BS get from you??? He can hire a maid for the housework.

Yes, there are different types and degress of love. Again, this is MB but it sounds like you may have yourself convinced that you should move on and be with this OP. And if your current H isn't deeply in love with you either you both deserve more out of life than what you are giving and receiving.

I guess my WH has taken his heart out of the equation - I think he wants the companionship and someone to take care of the daily home stuff. But, he wants EA & PA outside of our M. Yes, I want the companionship, security of M and finances, I do not want to look for another man to fillful those needs.
No, I don't think I could look the other way if he was more descrete - it's not fair especially since there is NO SEX but once a year. We are not best friends - he does little for me it's only about what I can do for him. The only thing he gives me is freedom to come and go and $$..

We do not have children, we live in PA - which is an equitable distribution state - so I may be able to take him to the cleaners. I have copies of all my credit card statments showing that I spend alot and I'm very high maintenance, hahah..He will keep the business and buy me out so he has the potential to earn alot of $$ - I don't I'm 47 w/o a college educ. where am I going to earn what I'm earning now??? Have a nice car, home, expenses paid, vacations, etc.

I really don't want to "find a new man" I want the one I have but I can't accept his behavior - it's childish, selfish and mean. Money can do that to people. I know I have to make a decison sooner than later. No, the past 10 years have not been a waste - what is a waste is to put me out to pasture when there is alot of riding left in me..(yes, I'm a horse person). It's a waste for him to pay me a settlement when if he would open his heart and life to me again he could/would be rewarded, but I think he's too far gone - though, some still believe in miracles..

My WH was kind, attentive, affectionate, etc. till he got power and money then he became rude, arrogant and uncaring. He gives me no attention anymore it's all about him, spending $$, golf, drinking, and cars. He's shut me out, except when he needs me to do something for him - when we are with our friends, then he does the show..which sickens me...We have a nice time with friends, joke, etc. then when we get home he goes to his room and I go to mine.

The ditzes are both EA & PA he knows how to lure women and they fall for it, Just like I did. I think he hates me now since I know what is going on. Well, if he wouldn't have S##($ around with 2 women at our business I probably wouldn't have found out. Hell, I had him followed thinking he was with someone from work only to find out it was someone totally different. I think the one girl dumped him since she was risking her M and realized she wasnt' the only one he was S#%)# with...Is she more of an A than me??

My therapist says he definately puts everything into compartments he can't let them mesh. If we didn't work together I probably wouldn't even know what he was doing.

I need to decide if I can close my eyes and live a celibate life or take him to the cleaners and move on.. THough, one day he could come home and say he's out - he's in love. He falls fast so that scares me too. I'd like my $$ before he finds a way to hide it or things change business wise - you never know what can happen.

Thanks for your input it helps to see all sides of A's...I just don't think I can be what he wants me to be - a mother not a wife...

you need to protect yourself first whatever it is you decide. Reading your post, I am going to be very realistic, it is not impossible he'll change but it could be improbable. You'll get very good advice from the rest of the posters here how to do the MB rules and how to sve the marriage; if he's been married four times and he's now financially better off than ever before, it'll be easy for him if he ever falls in love with someone who wants to marry him to go for it - you need to protect yourself against that possiblity. can you go see the lawyers about whether it is possible to get a floating charge/injunction, which lets you freeze accounts upon a trigger event/when you need to (use illegal appropriation of company funds as a reason if it's all in the company) - varies from state to state before he moves your financial security away from you. Are you joint account holders? equal shareholders/partners in the company? who can access and transfer company funds , is it joint or single signatories? Your lawyer will advise you accordingly.

what I am saying is that if you are afraid he might bolt (you mentioned you think he's fallen deep this time) you can still work on keeping the marriage going but protect yourself financially against him leaving. You don't want to be looking for work at your age with no degree. It's crap but a reality that many men leave their wives for younger models when they can afford to. SO, see a lawyer tomorrow.

We always think we can change someone but it's very hard. It hurts but the easiest and best thing is perhaps to look at the reality and decide if that reality is liveable. If it's not, what do you want to do about it? You want the man you have but he is no longer the man you loved. Was that man real and is he ever coming back. Money does change people and while they sometimes do realise it and change (usually involves losing everything and seeing just who is still standing beside them) it's rare although I don't claim to know everything. If he's not your best friend and it's all about him, that says enough surely; when can it be about you as you deserve it( btw I'm a horsey person too)

Boy, to tell your BS that you are ok with the M and Like him but want sex outside of the M with this OP I don't think most men will go for that. THough, if your in CA. it might work.,hahha..What other benefits will your BS get from you??? He can hire a maid for the housework.

====== I don't think so either! we have maids. I don't do any housework. The last thing he married me for was my domestic skills! BS? I think that I amuse him endlessly and he loves me; I listen to him; encourage him with regards to work and family; I organise his non-working life for him (if only because I'm quite type A) and I am his best friend. He is very cold and detached with other people. Only cares about family and me so I try not to let him down. I never crowd him, he never crowds me and we are interested in whatever the other person wants to do. Whatever happens, I am fiercely protective of him and he will always be in my life if he lets me. I have tried (believe me) to love him more and to have the marraige of our dreams but I really can't - I just don't feel that way. I never intended for the A to happen and was actually on the verge of divorcing him when I realised I didn't love him (left the house for two weeks and went home to parents) when A started happening and I got distracted. I didn't want to leave M for A as was worried I was not thinking right and it just went all downhill from there. It's sad as aside from that slight technical glitch (me not loving him as a woman loves a man) (ie I find him handsome but not attractive; not interested in sex at all), it could be the perfect marriage. If I could only love him more, life would be complete. My question to myself is have i tried hard enough (which is why I'm in this forum) and how much more do I have to do. I know the risks I am taking in ending M, and OM's M and my reservations are not so much that but can I live with the fall-out? The only thing I can do now is to be honest with everyone.

How did your ex-H deal with you leaving him?

I have been to an A - from looking at the preliminary paperwork, tax returns, etc. she feels I will be fine financially..Though noone can guarantee that, that's up to a judge. I have another appt. next month another A who specializes in business will be present. I have alife of security that I will be giving up for the unknown because of some ditz and a WH who can't stop his behaviour. Pretty sad...If he gave me any ray of hope like agreeing to a MC or IC that would help.

We only become financially stronger in the past 2-3 years. He own's 60% - I'm 40% - though, my A said since it was acquired during the M - it's 50-50 when it's split..Either of us can write company checks - though, he never even looks at the cb. I was told an arbitrator comes in to value the company - I've been watching so if he starts to spend to waste maoney making the business expenses higher - the courts will recognize that..and I'll have the spending records to back it up.

I just have to decide how I want my life to be - with a cheat who can be nice when I look the other way - alone - or looking for the next mr. wrong..I can't decide that while I still love him...It would be based on my heart not my brain...and yes, he could come home one day and leave me.

Since I'm taking that much needed vacation alone, I'll do alot of thinking and maybe he'll think too. The only postive thing he said months ago - is that he doesn't want to start over at 50 - that's not really positive but maybe he'll stop and think about it again. It's easy for men with money/power to get women he needs to grow up and realize there is more to life. He tells me I came with nothing and I'll get nothing - well, he better think again - since he didn't have all that much either when we got M. 2 kids, child support, braces, etc. I didnt' have that baggage.

As for my ExH - I didn't tell him I was involved with someone - I thought at the time if would hurt him too much. I didn't drag my A out. Though, he did find out after I moved out and was deeply hurt, anger, etc. We actually split on good terms helped me moved, used same A, but he was not aware of OP at that time. Things did get a little rough after that - but, since he worked so much I didn't see him when I went over to get custody of the dog for the week-ends. Then he changed the locks..Oh well, I deserved that and much more..Like a 2X4...

Goodness, your situation is so tangled - you must be a hell of an actress - just kidding - but, I know when I'm trying to put on a good face it's tough..It's probably killing my WH..to be nice when he has too. But, you genuinely like your H like I liked my X - he's a nice guy, just not for me, but, I had to go the fog was heavy and I too didn't feel that deep love that I wanted.

I don't know what more I can give you - it sounds like really your mind is made up - it's just alittle scary and what if your OP backs out??? How does he relate with his W? I don't recall your ages??

Sweeney,

Well, you said you knew you would get blasted on-line, and here it is... though I'll try not to blast too hard, just to get through to you a little.....

What you are doing is a whole lot like what my X did to me. And do you know what made me the maddest, and what hurt me the most? The fact that he was so selfish that he continued to act the part, continued to say I love you, right up to the moment he walked out to live with OW. And even after that, actually. I was a back-up plan. Things were rocky with OW, and he didn't want to be alone if things didn't work out with her. He held on to things with me and lied to me because he didn't have the.... guts... to stand on his own.

He wasted 10 years of my life, and left me to have children with another woman. I remained faithful, because that's what you are supposed to do in a marriage. He was not honest with me. He claimed, as I'm sure you do, that it was because "he didn't want to hurt me." That's garbage. If he didn't want to hurt me, he wouldn't have done any of what he did. He lied because he was selfish, and wanted to make sure he "won" - that he didn't have to be alone.

If he had been honest with me years ago, when all this started, either we would have worked on fixing the marriage, or we would have divorced. But it would have been done without wasting years of my life. For me, years which may very well mean that I will NEVER have children. Years which I could have used to try and find someone worthy of being a father, and built a relationship worth having.

That is still what angers me more than anything else. It's why it is called "cheating." Doing things this way, the cheater is essentially a thief.... only you are stealing someone's time and life instead of her possessions.

Hope you get some clarity and much needed r and r time on your holiday. haev found that time alone always helps and we don't get enough of it in our day to day lives.

Goodness, your situation is so tangled - you must be a hell of an actress - just kidding - but, I
I don't know what more I can give you - it sounds like really your mind is made up - it's just alittle scary and what if your OP backs out??? How does he relate with his W? I don't recall your ages??


=======OM is 42 and I am 34. If he backs out life goes on. WIll be crushed but life goes on. Well with W, he likes her alot and cares about her. I am sure he loves her in a way, how can you not when two people have been together so long. I don't begrudge him that at all. He is protective of her as they ahve known each for a very long time and she can be a space cadet. They got married because they had been dating a long time, she wanted to and he thought it would be the right thing to do by her. They are a littel distant and very polite to each other and I have spent enough time (alot alot of time) with them. He doesn't get what she's about in life and she doesn't get him. ie, he's a very driven businessman and she wants him to quit working so he can stay home with her. He can't think of anything worse as achievements mean alot to him. She wants alot more attention affection and mind sapce from him that he is able to give as the natural inclination is not there. Before me he took up alot of hobbies so he didn't have to spend that much time at home. She thinks that he can be very inconsiderate and cold and unfeeling. He tries hard but hearts not in it. He's not that way with me - sometimes he crowds me a bit as he demands more time and attention than I can give. However, she's quite mild so the above issues she never really pushes on about them. Even if it were the fog now and the case that in time, the attention and whatever goes, I am ok with that as I believe you really cannot crowd someone. If my partner wants to do something and I don't want to go with them, I don't stop them.

objectively, there is nothing wrong with them, just nothing very right that's all - same as mine. ie "we were not unhappy, just not happy". nobody wants passion excitement al the time, gosh that would be exhausting but contentment was always an illsion. Safe/comfotable etc etc. The spouses do not engage us, do not inspire us, do not challenge us. I don't want to live my life in this comfort zone. What was most telling is that I do not want to start a family with H. Once I thought I was pregant and the thought completetly freaked me out - that was when I realised I needed to leave. I love children and I want them , just not with him. He was the same way - keep delaying it for the longest time. I think he took some kind of male pill (funny!)

Penguin: I don't know your situation so I can't comment and yes you're right, all BS are very wrong and need to grow up. BUt he might not be lying, he might have loved you, just that he loved someone more? it is possible. Believe, sometimes when someone loves you, you try to do everything you can to keep them happy, including lying through your teeth to YOURSELF (ie yes yes I love him/her) and go trhough the motions hoping they will wake up one day miraculously in love with the person they are supposed to. You try to be whatever they want you to be, maybe because of the guilt? maybe because you want to continue being loved? maybe because you are selfsih and want everythng? I don't know why but I tried! it just didn't happen and it sucks and it hurts and you feel immensely guily and responsible. ALL this was before any A on my part. You say wasting other's time.

What goes on in someone who is not in love with who they're with's head is some days you say ok, I have to leave can't lie and live a lie anymore; some days you say ok it's not that bad, I can do this, I can live like this for a while - I just need to find something else to think about.